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I have no idea where this should go or whether its even appropriate for the board. Thought that came to me as part of another thread, and I figured I'd just put it out there and step in the poop.

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Thought experiment: Suppose you are a fly on the wall, and you hear a member of the Church of Scientology's Sea Organization say something along these lines to a new recruit coming in for training:

"I believe, 'We Come Back'. We are part of an ancient organization that once tried to save the Earth and failed, and I think we are going to play an important role in the eventual redemption of humanity."

We know certain things about this organization. We know there are billion year contracts, low wages, various forms of social control, etc. There are many accounts of ex-members in the Church and ex-Sea Org members like Paul Haggis, John Brousseau, and others, that suggest it's an exploitative situation, and it's an exploitative organization. There is also evidence that any opinions counter to the organization's views can have very real negative consequences for people in the organization (and without) that express them. There is also the context here where we would probably assume that part of what the person saying this is trying to do is convince the new recruit. In short, we have a lot of reason to doubt the person believes what they are saying.

But, let's also assume they mean it. They may be living in a socially constructed reality and effectively brainwashed. But, they believe the Church of Scientology's teachings. They found that it helped them recover from some horrors that happened to them before convertion to the religion/cult, or they just accepted what they have been told from birth, maybe because they don't know any better. Maybe it is Stockholm syndrome.

Does there come a point where levels of exploitation get so high that it is impossible to believe the person being exploited anymore - where the observers perception of reality trumps the experience and the attitudes of the person actually having the experience? How far do you take it? For example:

1. How far do we linguistically parse what they are saying so that we can convince ourselves that, deep down, they agree with us about their situation, despite what it looks what they are saying on the surface is in direct opposition to our view?

2. What happens when we start lowering down the exploitation, say to the level of Jehovah's Witnesses, AAA baseball or any other example you care to think of?

Note: Please exclude porn from this discussion, since turning this thread into Porn Princess thread #3 is not my intent, and it's best if we just keep that as explicitly off-topic. If you want to talk porn, you know where to find those threads.

3. How do we avoid the trap of soft paternalism - which means, to me, basically believing that our opinions about reality are better than other people's opinions without having a real basis for making that claim? At the extremes, it is the difference between this Sea Org example (which, at least, is defensible) and say, people asserting that all liberals/conservatives are ignorant fucktards deluded by MSM or Fox News (which mostly, isn't).

Rest easy. No need to worry, my friend. The Prison Warden™ will take very good care of you. He'll protect you. In fact, he's protecting the whole world and keeping it locked it up tight. Keeping it safe. When the whole world is in prison, everything is safe.

What is this? You hear the sounds of a carnival outside? That's not a carnival. That's people beating on our doors trying to get in. We can't process them fast enough. Here, take a look at this recruitment brochure:

===Begin text of brochure===

Is capitalism exploiting you? Do you hate your boss? Tired of doing work that is meaningless, piecemeal and without any sense of craftsmanship? Are the rich getting fat off their parasitic suckling of your blood, sweat and sweet, sweet tears?

Are racists calling you whitey, blackey or not liking your shade of brown? The good old boys, with their exclusive clubs and sign that YOU need to keep out. Or is it the institutionalized racism of the system keeping you down? We really like the idea of you as CEO of this shit show, but the citizens, investors, customers, suppliers or the vague "they" aren't quite ready for you to be in charge yet – not of yourself, certainly not of anyone else.

Sound familiar ladies? Is patriarchy always looming, like an unwanted phallus in your face? Tired of having a seat at the table, just never at the head of the table, making less money than the men and having even enlightened "feminist" men (and women) look to you when the kids misbehave or the house isn't clean?

Or is it your gender/sexual orientation? People don't understand your gender ambiguity, Pat? Society doesn't like who, how, how often, you like to hump? Your sexual interest in: armpits, toes, ears, bellybuttons, (insert non-standard body area of choice); earwax, dinkleberries, eye crust, toenail fungus, human milk, (insert non-standard body secretion/collection of choice); nipple suction, furry suit, assless leather chaps, (insert non-standard sexual accoutrement), etc.; etc., when discovered is used to make you feel like a depraved pervert?

Or maybe it is religion? Not enough God? Or, Gods?  A little too much of both? No one understands your "fake" religion. Or, everyone is fine with it, even when you were trying to shock them all with your counter-cultural sensibilities because the market has already appropriated your ideas and willing to sell you trinkets on the cheap. Bob is waiting. Call now! If you call in the next 15 minutes, you'll get a free Black Iron Prison coffee mug.

Or, maybe you have more esoteric, conspiratorial or ideological tastes? New World Order? The poor? Water fluoridation? Party A/B/C of your country of citizenship? Black people? Catholicism? Primative anarchists? The Jews? Masculinism? Sovereign individual? 9/11 Truth? 13 Families? Or, insert your special blend of The Real that no one else understands here?

The Prison Warden™ has the cure to what ails you. The Prison has whole blocs devoted to creating the world as you want it. There's a feminist bloc. A Christian bloc. A US of A bloc. A gay bloc. A Black bloc (all 5 kinds). A bloc for everything you want. We have a ready stream of recruits and an open prosletization policy. Come to the prison and build the future you want today!

===End brochure===

We don't mention this in the brochure, but we even a freedom bloc where the Prison Warden is called The Gardener™ and inmates are free to wander the English-style Garden, with everything manicured and kept in its proper place. Freedom without all the danger. We have every illusion you'll ever need, really.

Wait, what? When will you'll get out? Never. Why would you want to get out? Don't you understand how dangerous it is out there? Don't you realize that the only protection you're going to get is a multi-layered symbosis of various bloc X-isms to keep your mind safe from the insanity of the real, The Real – not your special flavor of it?

Look, this is equal opportunity. Life sentences for everyone, with no chance of parole. Most people prefer blocs of cells to share with others. But, the management is kind. You're more than welcome to select solitary confinement or change your illusion of choice at any time.

Now, get in your place. Welcome home.