I did this for you

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I mean, that's a little of my personal bias leaking out.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So, I guess, assume that both the giver and the recipient are fully-realized adult human beings who are completely capable of taking care of themselves. The gift is unasked-for and unwanted. Is it for the giver, or for the recipient?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If it helps at all, I actually personally believe that there are multiple valid answers to this question.

[Reginald Ret]

Gifts become property and property needs to be looked after.
Therefore unwanted gifts are an attack on your well-being. Take revenge, give them a worse gift, for example the gift you just received but now on fire.

Polite people suffer the most under this kind of attack, complete and utter bastards do fine.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Gifts become property and property needs to be looked after.
Therefore unwanted gifts are an attack on your well-being. Take revenge, give them a worse gift, for example the gift you just received but now on fire.

Polite people suffer the most under this kind of attack, complete and utter bastards do fine.

[LMNO]

Ok, I'm gonna taboo the word "for" here, as it could mean a couple of different things.

1. Prior to the giving, is it intended to benefit the giver or the givee? 

-In a perfect situation, it would be both.  The giver gets social status points due to the the unasked giving, and the givee gets utility points by receiving.

-In a less perfect situation, the giver intends the gift only intends the status points for themselves, and don't really care if the givee benefits or not.

-In a not-at-all perfect situation, no benefits are expected.  Neither the giver nor the givee want or care about the gift.[/li]

2. After the giving, did either the giver or the givee benefit?

-The givee will not gain utility points and may be forced to follow social conventions and be polite about accepting the gift, as to reject the gift would lose the givee status points.

-The giver may gain status points if the conventions are followed, may lose them if the gift is rejected, or the result may be neutral.



On balance, taking into account both before and after the giving, the giver has more opportunity to benefit.  Therefore, the giving of the unasked and unexpected gift is "for" the giver.




Yes, I have been reading a lot of LessWrong lately. Why do you ask?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ok, I'm gonna taboo the word "for" here, as it could mean a couple of different things.

1. Prior to the giving, is it intended to benefit the giver or the givee? 

-In a perfect situation, it would be both.  The giver gets social status points due to the the unasked giving, and the givee gets utility points by receiving.

-In a less perfect situation, the giver intends the gift only intends the status points for themselves, and don't really care if the givee benefits or not.

-In a not-at-all perfect situation, no benefits are expected.  Neither the giver nor the givee want or care about the gift.[/i]

2. After the giving, did either the giver or the givee benefit?

-The givee will not gain utility points and may be forced to follow social conventions and be polite about accepting the gift, as to reject the gift would lose the givee status points.

-The giver may gain status points if the conventions are followed, may lose them if the gift is rejected, or the result may be neutral.



On balance, taking into account both before and after the giving, the giver has more opportunity to benefit.  Therefore, the giving of the unasked and unexpected gift is "for" the giver.




Yes, I have been reading a lot of LessWrong lately. Why do you ask?

Thank you, I appreciate this analysis.

*I also cannot for the life of my figure out why the quote function completely broke halfway through it. Too much formatting?

Edit: found the problem.

[LMNO]

Oh, there's a dangling

Code Select Expand

[/li] up there.  That would probably do it.

[Junkenstein]

I'd say a decent factor is how well the giver/givee know each other. When meeting a random person/client/whatever for the first occasion, if I happen to be buying a drink for myself I'll pick up a second bottle of whatever it is. Nothing expensive, or even alcoholic but just a simple "Here's a thing. Thirsty?" I suppose it's selfish consideration somewhat, they may not like the choice and refuse it which case I now have 2 drinks. Or they keep it and you can fairly accurately gauge how much of an asshole someone is likely to be for less than a quid, usually.

Anecdotal, but the two most extreme examples of that are:

Nuclear facility - Guy refused, showed me a bunch of forms he'd have to fill in to declare it not a bribe and such, got a really good feeling for the chap and the way the place works, nice behind the scenes shit and a bunch of lingo that helped considerably. For 30p.

Chemical works - Prick took a bottle of lucozade, had a taste, spat it out and threw the bottle at scaffolding. Found out everything I needed to know in about 20 seconds for 70p.


If you actually know and like the person and happen to give an unwanted gift, I would hope you know and like each other enough to go "What is this? The fuck were you thinking? I'm good for this, you keep it".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think that how well the giver knows the recipient, how the recipient receives the unwanted gift, and what the giver expects of the recipient afterwards all have bearing on whether the gift is for the giver or the recipient.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Story time!

When QGP was a little nerdy thing freshman year at college, she was pretty and available and hanging out with all the nerds. You know how this works. Wound up moving in with two guys I was never gonna sleep with (with this being an explicit understanding) because fuckit, it's the 21st century and I need an apartment. One of the nerdlings bought me a necklace a few months after move in. It was not cheap. The fuck, man. It was really goddamned awkward and I'm kinda glad I lost it eventually.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Story time!

When QGP was a little nerdy thing freshman year at college, she was pretty and available and hanging out with all the nerds. You know how this works. Wound up moving in with two guys I was never gonna sleep with (with this being an explicit understanding) because fuckit, it's the 21st century and I need an apartment. One of the nerdlings bought me a necklace a few months after move in. It was not cheap. The fuck, man. It was really goddamned awkward and I'm kinda glad I lost it eventually.

Yeahhhh

That kind of thing is just a little hard to handle. I get gifts for my housemate all the time, and likewise he for me, but it's kinda all crap that no-ones feelings will be hurt if it ends up in the trash.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Of course, we've been friends for long enough that sometimes he brings shit home and I'm like NO. THAT HAS TO LEAVE THIS HOUSE IMMEDIATELY.

Sometimes it hurts the girls' feelings, but really it's for the best.

[Eater of Clowns]

Of course, we've been friends for long enough that sometimes he brings shit home and I'm like NO. THAT HAS TO LEAVE THIS HOUSE IMMEDIATELY.

Sometimes it hurts the girls' feelings, but really it's for the best.

[LMNO]

So, are you gonna give us the whole story, or what?