Sometimes, we all get unlucky and waste our money on books that should have never have even been put to pen and paper, let alone seen by a editor and sent to print. Now, I've always believed it was a good thing to watch each other's backs, so to help us here save some money and perhaps what's left of our sanity, I've decided to establish a thread to tell each other about the worst of the worst.
I'll start with a book all the way back from 2004 called "The Illuminati Manifesto" by Solomon Tulbure. Now, it makes sense this book got past the editor, as it was published by one of those internet publishers, so grammar and such wasn't corrected. That's its first strike against the book.
Next, the guy claims to be head of the Illuminati that started over in Bavaria, and the reason they came out of hiding was because they needed new recruits for something big. That something big? Dismantling organized religion, of course, and forcing people to be free and think for themselves. If they don't, they don't deserve to live and should be either be killed or forced into slavery.
And lastly, he's a Ayn Rand whore. Enough said.
Who's next?
P.S. If there is another thread like this, and I'm copying it (I've been known to do that), sorry.
How about: anything written by Charles Dickens. You can tell that he was paid by the word.
Consider Phlebas by Iain Banks was a complete waste of time and money. It's the first book I've ever stopped reading halfway through just because the writing was so awful. Awkward descriptions, flat characterizations, terrible dialogue...and the plot! My god. By the time I gave up the protagonist (who was utterly uninteresting) had suffered something like five utter catastrophes.
It's currently lying on my bathroom floor being slowly destroyed by moisture and Comet. I can't even be bothered to throw that piece of shit away.
The Principia Discordia
Illuminatus! Trilogy
[/obvious]
Anyway I would NOT recommend reading:
Anything by Lee Child (cliche ridden, predictable, boring "thrillers")
Anything by Dan Brown (see above, plus adoring idiots fans).
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller (I know, I know, its a play....)
Anything by Kant
Mein Kampf by Hitler (gibberish and paranoid ranting with no literary merit and only useful as a historical document).
The Left Behind Series - bad plot, bad writing, bad for your brain
Anything by Orson S Card except Ender's Game.
The Sword of Truth series except the first book (Wizard's first Rule)
Daniel Goleman - The Meditative Mind
... and
This thread.
;-)
Piers Anthony's Apprentice Adept series :x
the only two books I have read by him and they are horrid! Clearly not worth the $0.15 I payed for them.
The Celestine Prophecy
Infinite Jest
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on August 27, 2008, 07:50:27 AM
Consider Phlebas by Iain Banks was a complete waste of time and money. It's the first book I've ever stopped reading halfway through just because the writing was so awful. Awkward descriptions, flat characterizations, terrible dialogue...and the plot! My god. By the time I gave up the protagonist (who was utterly uninteresting) had suffered something like five utter catastrophes.
It's currently lying on my bathroom floor being slowly destroyed by moisture and Comet. I can't even be bothered to throw that piece of shit away.
For that, I'd recommend most of his other Sci-Fi, which is all written under Iain M. Banks.
The Player of Games was an awesome book.
Quote from: triple zero on August 27, 2008, 11:42:11 AM
The Sword of Truth series except the first book (Wizard's first Rule)
I'd add in the second book too, The Stone of Tears was actually not that bad, but from the third book, he starts to really throw his Ayn Rand fanboi-ism about.
Quote from: Cain on August 27, 2008, 11:27:42 AM
The Principia Discordia
Illuminatus! Trilogy
[/obvious]
Anyway I would NOT recommend reading:
Anything by Lee Child (cliche ridden, predictable, boring "thrillers")
Anything by Dan Brown (see above, plus adoring idiots fans).
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller (I know, I know, its a play....)
Anything by Kant
Mein Kampf by Hitler (gibberish and paranoid ranting with no literary merit and only useful as a historical document).
The Left Behind Series - bad plot, bad writing, bad for your brain
RAH!
Also:
Simon Necronomicon (Tyson faked it better)
Quote from: LMNO on August 27, 2008, 02:24:00 PM
The Celestine Prophecy
Infinite Jest
But I love DFW! :x
Quote from: Eve on August 27, 2008, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 27, 2008, 02:24:00 PM
The Celestine Prophecy
Infinite Jest
But I love DFW! :x
His short stories and essays are great.
IJ sucked massive wheelchair-bound-Canadian-Terrorist balls.
Celtika by Robert Holdstock
While I adore Holdstock's Mythago Wood (as does everyone else in my immediate family), Celtika starts out promising and then fucking nothing happens for the next seven or so chapters. I put it down and never picked it back up.
"Mister B. Gone" by Clive Barker. Complete piece of shit.
The Bible.
"My Stance" by Larry Craig
any fiction by Raymond Buckland.
Ok dude, we get that you're a famous witch and have penned popular manuals on the subject. Doesn't mean you can WRITE A STORY.
Same goes for Silver Ravenwolf however, I extend the ban to ANYTHING she's written, EVER.
Quote from: Mangrove on August 27, 2008, 07:56:32 PM
any fiction by Raymond Buckland.
Ok dude, we get that you're a famous witch and have penned popular manuals on the subject. Doesn't mean you can WRITE A STORY.
Same goes for Silver Ravenwolf however, I extend the ban to ANYTHING she's written, EVER.
Second on Ravenwolf. I always saw her as the Isaac Asimov of pagan writing (though Asimov, from what I hear, is really good). She seems to have a new book out every five minutes. Or maybe it's the same book over and over again, I'm not too sure. All I know is I can't even browse them without boredom.
Quote from: Cain on August 27, 2008, 11:27:42 AM
The Principia Discordia
Illuminatus! Trilogy
[/obvious]
Anyway I would NOT recommend reading:
Anything by Lee Child (cliche ridden, predictable, boring "thrillers")
Anything by Dan Brown (see above, plus adoring idiots fans).
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller (I know, I know, its a play....)
Anything by Kant
Mein Kampf by Hitler (gibberish and paranoid ranting with no literary merit and only useful as a historical document).
The Left Behind Series - bad plot, bad writing, bad for your brain
I actually tried to read the first Left Behind book the other day. I couldn't even get past the first chapter. So tired and cliche. And I'm still mad at you for suggesting Gary North's "Unholy Spirits". I can't even think of the words to describe how awful it is.
Quote from: Dr. Payne on August 27, 2008, 07:12:10 PM
The Bible.
I actually enjoy a lot of the bible. It's Christians who are the problem.
I would also like to add "anything by Mitch Albom" to the list.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 01:35:23 AM
Quote from: Dr. Payne on August 27, 2008, 07:12:10 PM
The Bible.
I actually enjoy a lot of the bible. It's Christians who are the problem.
I would also like to add "anything by Phillip K Dick" to the list.
Fixt
Also true, but you guys seem to like him.
I figure most of us can agree on Mitch Albom though, right?
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 01:35:23 AM
Quote from: Dr. Payne on August 27, 2008, 07:12:10 PM
The Bible.
I actually enjoy a lot of the bible. It's Christians who are the problem.
2x
every time i crack open a bible i always find something that makes me say, "holy shit! i can't believe this is actually in the bible"
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Not to mention one-dimensional characters and obscene amounts of Deus ex Machina.
Quote from: Cainad on August 28, 2008, 12:22:44 PM
Not to mention one-dimensional characters and obscene amounts of Deus ex Machina.
holy sheeeit! this is the best literary review of the bible I've ever seen! WoW! Over rated & over used to justify inhumanity & intolerance. Except for a few passages - the more poetic ones, I guess, which are quite beautiful (too few & too far between tho)
Anything by Terry Goodkind.
Srsly, if the road to hell is paved with adverbs, then reading Goodkind is, well...you get the idea.
Quote from: Kai on August 28, 2008, 03:45:57 PM
Anything by Terry Goodkind.
Srsly, if the road to hell is really, fully, and completely paved with adverbs, then reading Goodkind is, well...you get the idea.
Fixed for meta.
Quote from: LMNO on August 28, 2008, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 28, 2008, 03:45:57 PM
Anything by Terry Goodkind.
Srsly, if the road to hell is really, fully, and completely paved with adverbs, then reading Goodkind is, well...you get the idea.
Fixed for meta.
True dat.
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
Quote from: Kai on August 28, 2008, 03:50:15 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 28, 2008, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 28, 2008, 03:45:57 PM
Anything by Terry Goodkind.
Srsly, if the road to hell is really, fully, and completely paved with adverbs, then reading Goodkind is, well...you get the idea.
Fixed for meta.
True dat.
Indubitably.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
I still think the Bible is the biggest Golden Apple of Discord ever dumped on humanity.
The Bible - tl;dr
Quote from: Cainad on August 28, 2008, 04:55:56 PM
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
I still think the Bible is the biggest Golden Apple of Discord ever dumped on humanity.
Troof.
Well, people read the bible in a dangerous way. The bible should be read as a philosophical text. Or a historical text. Or anything, really, except as a religious text, because religion always misleads people.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
Don't care about Christianity.
Don't care about Judaism.
Have actually read a fair bit of the Bible on my own.
Still sucks as literature, still sucks as writing.
A few of the psalms are nice.
Quote from: LMNO on August 28, 2008, 08:51:58 PM
A few of the psalms are nice.
Granted. But they do not make up for....well, pretty much everything else.
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 08:51:06 PM
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
Don't care about Christianity.
Don't care about Judaism.
Have actually read a fair bit of the Bible on my own.
Still sucks as literature, still sucks as writing.
Still one of the most influential books in the history of western civilization,
still worth reading, if only in a "know thy enemy" sort of way.
Influential =/= good reading. Mein Kampf was influential, and it was still crap. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason was influential, and also crap. The Koran is hella influential, and possibly even more shit than the Bible (more coherent, but less psychedelic apocalyptic imagery to make up for wading through hundreds of pages of crap).
And if I wanted to know my enemy, why would I read the Bible? Its clear they haven't, or else we wouldn't be having a problem.
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 09:20:10 PM
Influential =/= good reading. Mein Kampf was influential, and it was still crap. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason was influential, and also crap. The Koran is hella influential, and possibly even more shit than the Bible (more coherent, but less psychedelic apocalyptic imagery to make up for wading through hundreds of pages of crap).
And if I wanted to know my enemy, why would I read the Bible? Its clear they haven't, or else we wouldn't be having a problem.
The funny thing about knowledge is that not everything worth knowing is fun to learn.
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 09:20:10 PM
Influential =/= good reading. Mein Kampf was influential, and it was still crap. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason was influential, and also crap. The Koran is hella influential, and possibly even more shit than the Bible (more coherent, but less psychedelic apocalyptic imagery to make up for wading through hundreds of pages of crap).
And if I wanted to know my enemy, why would I read the Bible? Its clear they haven't, or else we wouldn't be having a problem.
Well, it does seem crap gets the wins. Not quite sure why this is, but if any more pointless holy books get written along the same styles of the bible and the koran, there isn't going to be a planet left to fight their wars on. Not that it would be a bad thing. Maybe without a planet, the idiots will finally work together. Or fight on the moon.
OK, pointless rambling is over. Back to the usually scheduled thread.
What? I fucking love the Bible. I have never picked up a book that is filled with as much sex and violence.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 09:20:10 PM
Influential =/= good reading. Mein Kampf was influential, and it was still crap. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason was influential, and also crap. The Koran is hella influential, and possibly even more shit than the Bible (more coherent, but less psychedelic apocalyptic imagery to make up for wading through hundreds of pages of crap).
And if I wanted to know my enemy, why would I read the Bible? Its clear they haven't, or else we wouldn't be having a problem.
The funny thing about knowledge is that not everything worth knowing is fun to learn.
Keep shifting those goal posts.
Quote from: Cain on August 29, 2008, 09:22:10 AM
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 09:20:10 PM
Influential =/= good reading. Mein Kampf was influential, and it was still crap. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason was influential, and also crap. The Koran is hella influential, and possibly even more shit than the Bible (more coherent, but less psychedelic apocalyptic imagery to make up for wading through hundreds of pages of crap).
And if I wanted to know my enemy, why would I read the Bible? Its clear they haven't, or else we wouldn't be having a problem.
The funny thing about knowledge is that not everything worth knowing is fun to learn.
Keep shifting those goal posts.
Now wtf are
you talking about?
The thread is called "books that no one should read", not, "books that we don't particularly enjoy." At St. John's College in Annapolis, which is not really religiously affiliated (despite its name), major religious texts are required reading. This is not because the school promotes the beliefs conveyed in those texts, but because they have had such a major impact on society since they were written that any intelligent, well rounded individual should be familiar. The Principia Discordia isn't exactly a brilliant piece of literature either, or anyway, it has no more literary merit than the bible. I could preach misinterpretations to a bunch of people too and have them turn it into something gross, and would you then say because of those people that nobody should read the Principia anymore as well?
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
I second (or probably third or forth it by now) that sentiment! Jesus was indeed a Buddhist! There more of his philosophy I read the more I see Eastern thought predominant but presented in such a way as Western minds can wrap themselves around. What happened when folk wrote it down though....
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 29, 2008, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 29, 2008, 09:22:10 AM
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 09:20:10 PM
Influential =/= good reading. Mein Kampf was influential, and it was still crap. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason was influential, and also crap. The Koran is hella influential, and possibly even more shit than the Bible (more coherent, but less psychedelic apocalyptic imagery to make up for wading through hundreds of pages of crap).
And if I wanted to know my enemy, why would I read the Bible? Its clear they haven't, or else we wouldn't be having a problem.
The funny thing about knowledge is that not everything worth knowing is fun to learn.
Keep shifting those goal posts.
Now wtf are you talking about?
The thread is called "books that no one should read", not, "books that we don't particularly enjoy." At St. John's College in Annapolis, which is not really religiously affiliated (despite its name), major religious texts are required reading. This is not because the school promotes the beliefs conveyed in those texts, but because they have had such a major impact on society since they were written that any intelligent, well rounded individual should be familiar. The Principia Discordia isn't exactly a brilliant piece of literature either, or anyway, it has no more literary merit than the bible. I could preach misinterpretations to a bunch of people too and have them turn it into something gross, and would you then say because of those people that nobody should read the Principia anymore as well?
Who said anything about society?
Oh yeah,
you.
I said it was a crap piece of writing with no real influence, a fact that can be verified by, a) reading the whole thing or b) reading the Sermon on the Mount (10 minutes) then going to a Christian Church and seeing what they preach (homophobia, hatred, ethnocentrism, conformity to authority etc).
Reading Plato, Aristotle, Aquinas and Augustine will tell you a thousand times more about Christianity than a shitty piece of Jewish literature. Studying the economic and political power of the Vatican and the collapse of Rome will tell you more about the society of the Middle Ages than reading the Bible. In fact, when you list all the things that can tell you about the world as it really is, and Christians as they really act, the Bible is near the bottom of the list. The Bible can barely tell us about Jesus's own time, or Jewish history, so riddled with factual errors, grandiose claims based on religious impulse and stripped of any socio-economic factors as it is. Its only use is to show up Christians engaged in acts of hypocrisy, and since they cannot grasp that concept (Altermeyer's The Authoritarians makes the case for mental compartmentalization among authoritarian followers), there is no real point in doing so anyway.
BUT BUT BUT YUO HAVE TO READ THA BIBLE, RITE? CUZ, UM, ITS LIEK, UH, VERY IMPORTANT AND STUFF?
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 09:20:10 PM
And if I wanted to know my enemy, why would I read the Bible? Its clear they haven't, or else we wouldn't be having a problem.
:potd:
And nB: Students have to read a lot of crap books at school. St Johns even more so. They have to read
Ptolemy, even. In the original Greek. And that fucker was a geocentrist.
LMNO
-lived in Annapolis, partied with the Johnnies.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 09:34:48 PMThe funny thing about knowledge is that not everything worth knowing is fun to learn.
that doesn't mean you should know it.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 29, 2008, 09:25:26 AM
The thread is called "books that no one should read", not, "books that we don't particularly enjoy."
Um...it may be just me, but if you don't particularly enjoy a book, I think you wouldn't recommend it as a good read.
The Best of nostalgicBadger on PD.com, by nostalgicBadger
It isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The only reason I didn't gouge my eyes out after reading it was because my health insurance doesn't cover fail-related injuries.
lol thread ruined
Science and Beauty by Isaac Asimov
All Double Bubble comics. All Double Bubble comics. Pud's new holier than thou attitude is horrible.
Quote from: Cain on August 29, 2008, 11:26:39 AM
Who said anything about society?
Oh yeah, you.
I said it was a crap piece of writing with no real influence, a fact that can be verified by, a) reading the whole thing or b) reading the Sermon on the Mount (10 minutes) then going to a Christian Church and seeing what they preach (homophobia, hatred, ethnocentrism, conformity to authority etc).
Reading Plato, Aristotle, Aquinas and Augustine will tell you a thousand times more about Christianity than a shitty piece of Jewish literature. Studying the economic and political power of the Vatican and the collapse of Rome will tell you more about the society of the Middle Ages than reading the Bible. In fact, when you list all the things that can tell you about the world as it really is, and Christians as they really act, the Bible is near the bottom of the list. The Bible can barely tell us about Jesus's own time, or Jewish history, so riddled with factual errors, grandiose claims based on religious impulse and stripped of any socio-economic factors as it is. Its only use is to show up Christians engaged in acts of hypocrisy, and since they cannot grasp that concept (Altermeyer's The Authoritarians makes the case for mental compartmentalization among authoritarian followers), there is no real point in doing so anyway.
BUT BUT BUT YUO HAVE TO READ THA BIBLE, RITE? CUZ, UM, ITS LIEK, UH, VERY IMPORTANT AND STUFF?
:mittens:
I've never regretted reading a book.
Quote from: Requiem on August 31, 2008, 07:56:29 AM
I've never regretted reading a book.
now that you mention it, me neither. if it was really that bad, i'd give up halfway through or something.
i have regretted buying a book, though.
Quote from: triple zero on August 31, 2008, 05:36:30 PM
Quote from: Requiem on August 31, 2008, 07:56:29 AM
I've never regretted reading a book.
now that you mention it, me neither. if it was really that bad, i'd give up halfway through or something.
i have regretted buying a book, though.
True, the reading of a book, good or bad, isn't the thing to regret. I personally find it the time wasted on a book that wasn't all that good was the biggest loss. That and the money I spent on it. So I have to agree with the both of you.
I have to say, if you find it important to have books in a style that keeps you from falling asleep, stay away from anything by PKD (especially prior to A Scanner Darkly, which is the first book he wrote off cocaine) and also anything by Asimov. IMO, they have the most absurdly NORMAL (and therefore boring as hell, since they don't have a voice and they sound like a newspaper reporter post anal-editing), despite having interesting ideas.
Also, if you find anything by an ex-WWII-military person about "the hidden power of believing" (I've come across several books like this, all exactly the same except for the title and the author), don't bother getting it: it's basically the simplest tenets of chaos magic written in boring language, and puffed up with enough invented anecdotes to make it barely fill a small book.
Quote from: Enki-][ on October 28, 2008, 08:15:14 PM
I have to say, if you find it important to have books in a style that keeps you from falling asleep, stay away from anything by PKD (especially prior to A Scanner Darkly, which is the first book he wrote off cocaine) and also anything by Asimov. IMO, they have the most absurdly NORMAL (and therefore boring as hell, since they don't have a voice and they sound like a newspaper reporter post anal-editing), despite having interesting ideas.
I disagree about the Asimov. I love his short stories.
As for books that no one should read/buy:
"The Pearl" by John Steinbeck (simplistic moral-message plot and flat characters).
Anything by L. Ron Hubbard (because he's just pretty mediocre).
Anything by Anne Rice (same as L. Ron Hubbard. Also, science has proven with a 99% CI that vampires suck balls).
I concur with everyone who said not to read the Bible, excepting a few parts:
1) The Song of Solomon.
2) Some of the Psalms.
3) Some of the stuff Jesus said.
4) The Book of Job.
Actually, I agree about his short stories. If they're short enough, you can stay awake just long enough to finish one.
As for the bits of the bible to read, you forgot the heretical bits. Some bits of the book of Enoch are supposed to be good, and I hear some good things about the book of Jubilees. Genesis is interesting if you consider it the output of machine translation (according to historians, Genesis is actually translated into hebrew from caananite, from akkadian, from sumerian, with heavy censoring from the deutronomists in the ugartic stage between caananite and hebrew).
Dear Enki,
Fuck off.
Love,
LMNO
Quote from: Enki-][ on October 28, 2008, 10:27:18 PM
Genesis is interesting if you consider it the output of machine translation (according to historians, Genesis is actually translated into hebrew from caananite, from akkadian, from sumerian, with heavy censoring from the deutronomists in the ugartic stage between caananite and hebrew).
Holy-Moses-Eating-Out-a-Burning-Bush, this post just brought back terrible PTSD memories from my Linguistics units courses. Biblical linguistic history should mold and rot in a sealed filing cabinet in the deepest depths of hell reserved for intellectual travesties.
Quote from: Enki-][ on October 28, 2008, 10:27:18 PM
As for the bits of the bible to read, you forgot the heretical bits.
Nah, I didn't forget. Most of them are just bad, excluding parts of the Gospel of Thomas, which isn't really worth reading as far as entertainment or aesthetic value goes. I went to a Catholic college, and had to read a lot of those excluded books, and it was a really bad time. Also, just a quick note: most of the parts that have been labeled "heretical bits" are not actually considered "heretical." A lot of them were just left out because of historical and circumstantial situations during canonization, and many of the original canonizers thought that the "heretical bits" would be too esoteric or irrelevant to the average reader. Few of the gospels/books/commentaries were actually condemned, except for some of the stuff by the Donatists, Aryans and the works of some later scholars of their ilk.
Quote from: Rabbi LMNO on October 28, 2008, 11:23:14 PM
Dear Enki,
Fuck off.
Love,
LMNO
For some reason, this just made me laugh my ass off. Seriously, I nearly choked on a spoonful of Fruit Loops as I read it. Matter-of-fact statements are kryptonite in the morning, I tells ya.
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
I hope you don't mind that I added this to my sig.
Quote from: Manta Obscura on October 29, 2008, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Enki-][ on October 28, 2008, 10:27:18 PM
Genesis is interesting if you consider it the output of machine translation (according to historians, Genesis is actually translated into hebrew from caananite, from akkadian, from sumerian, with heavy censoring from the deutronomists in the ugartic stage between caananite and hebrew).
Holy-Moses-Eating-Out-a-Burning-Bush, this post just brought back terrible PTSD memories from my Linguistics units courses. Biblical linguistic history should mold and rot in a sealed filing cabinet in the deepest depths of hell reserved for intellectual travesties.
I actually like dead languages. Especially ones that have been dead or so long that barely anyone know that they exist. I also use my cursory knowledge of sumerian (which no one can correct me on, because no one else even knows that much) to "prove" that <insert your favourite monotheistic abrahamic religion here> was translated incorrectly in these places, totally fabricated much later here, and still noticably dating from a particular period aside from minor details like how many gods they have and whether or not their penis size is documented.
Seems like you can kind of tell who is an ex-Christian here.
Quote from: Nigel on October 31, 2008, 09:27:19 PM
Seems like you can kind of tell who is an ex-Christian here.
Guilty as charged, Nigel.
Not me.
Meh. Jesus was a pretty cool guy -- became gnostic demiurge and doesn't afraid of crucifiction. Too bad most christians have no idea who he is.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 27, 2008, 11:42:11 AM
Anything by Orson S Card except Ender's Game.
Really? I liked the whole Ender's Game Series, both arcs. I've never read any Card outside that series though.
Quote from: Manta Obscura on November 03, 2008, 01:52:14 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 31, 2008, 09:27:19 PM
Seems like you can kind of tell who is an ex-Christian here.
Guilty as charged, Nigel.
It is all right. I like you anyway.
Quote from: Doktor Loki on November 05, 2008, 08:49:43 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 27, 2008, 11:42:11 AM
Anything by Orson S Card except Ender's Game.
Really? I liked the whole Ender's Game Series, both arcs. I've never read any Card outside that series though.
You should try to read his non-fiction stuff. He does a weekly political column and it is atrocious. He's a Mormon fundie who loves bitching about gay people.
I definitely agree about Mitch Albom, fucking pretentious idiot.
Also may I add Pride and Prejudice, that bored me to death
Honourable mention to Prayer for Owen Meaney - John Irving, I liked it, but the fact that Owen Meaney spoke in caps-lock shitted me off so much
Quote from: Nigel on November 06, 2008, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: Manta Obscura on November 03, 2008, 01:52:14 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 31, 2008, 09:27:19 PM
Seems like you can kind of tell who is an ex-Christian here.
Guilty as charged, Nigel.
It is all right. I like you anyway.
Aww . . . thanks! I like you, too :)
I'm glad I didn't read this until today. Now I feel all warm and fuzzy, despite the crapulousness of the morning.
:)
I kind of agree with Cory Doctorow's sentiment that studying a text kills it and cuts it to pieces. That said, what's wrong with killing a text and cutting it to pieces? Isn't that how Burroughs wrote his best stuff? But it means that I consider anything that I've been told to read for school, et cetera, to be totally worthless. Mostly because I was instructed to read it, then instructed to critique it.
On a different note, wierd syncronity alert: I just handed in an assignment and was given a numbered ticket in exchange. I'll bet it will be able to be exchanged for something or other. Robert Anton Wilson, thou art avenged!
Quote from: Requiem on August 31, 2008, 07:56:29 AM
I've never regretted reading a book.
I wish I could say that was true, but the first volume of Piers Anthony's "Bio of a Space Tyrant" puts the lie to it. It was so astoundingly bad that I threw it out rather than have someone else read it. I enjoyed a lot of Anthony's stuff otherwise though - fun juvenile reading.
Quote from: Enki-][ on November 04, 2008, 12:09:44 AM
Meh. Jesus was a pretty cool guy -- became gnostic demiurge and doesn't afraid of crucifiction. Too bad most christians have no idea who he is.
I like Matthew 23 because it sounds like he's talking about Christians. :lulz:
Quote from: stella on November 13, 2008, 12:10:15 AM
Quote from: Enki-][ on November 04, 2008, 12:09:44 AM
Meh. Jesus was a pretty cool guy -- became gnostic demiurge and doesn't afraid of crucifiction. Too bad most christians have no idea who he is.
I like Matthew 23 because it sounds like he's talking about Christians. :lulz:
:mittens: The Evangelicals are the new Pharisees.
"You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. "
Everything from the pen of Warren Ellis that isn't transmetropolitan. If you've read transmetro, you've also read anything else he's written so there's no need but warren ellis is a terrible writer.
Aldous Huxley's Eyeless in Gaza because that is some boring shit.
Also thinking that don quixote is in the same category as the bible or other religious scripture.
aaaand the complete WHEEL OF TIME, which is drivel and the only thing that could have supported me rereading the filth once more was that if it would have had a decent conclusion but now?
I'd read it up until the sixth, but it becomes pretty obvious that Rand is not going to go insane and destroy the world anytime soon, which is all you are really after by that point in the series.
i made it up to seven i think, that series made it very clear that i have a problem, i am Regret and i'm a storyfinishing addict.
Quote from: brennschluss on November 27, 2008, 06:12:06 PM
Everything from the pen of Warren Ellis that isn't transmetropolitan. If you've read transmetro, you've also read anything else he's written so there's no need but warren ellis is a terrible writer.
I saw this post just after I put down volume 3 of transmetropolitan (finished) and reloaded my page.
Quote from: Regret on November 28, 2008, 12:30:31 AM
i made it up to seven i think, that series made it very clear that i have a problem, i am Regret and i'm a storyfinishing addict.
I made it up to seven as well. Real life intervened though, and I broke the habit, before finishing the other five, or however many there are (I have them all on my hard drive, somewhere).
Quote from: Cain on November 28, 2008, 12:17:46 PM
Quote from: Regret on November 28, 2008, 12:30:31 AM
i made it up to seven i think, that series made it very clear that i have a problem, i am Regret and i'm a storyfinishing addict.
I made it up to seven as well. Real life intervened though, and I broke the habit, before finishing the other five, or however many there are (I have them all on my hard drive, somewhere).
I've read all of them, and the last one will be coming out soon.
Its hard to find good high fantasy. Theres always something flawed about the main character writing in these books. Salvatore's Drizzt, for example. His villains are so much deeper.
You would probably like Fire and Ice then. It doesn't really have a main character per say, but given the series owes about as much to Machiavelli as it does Tolkein, it may be exceptional in many senses. I agree about alot of High Fantasy being cliche ridden and having somewhat one-dimensional main characters.
I mean, the Wheel of Time series was certainly a classic, and stood above the rest, but its a bloody long slog to go when the conclusion (and if it fits in with the overall series) is still somewhat up in the air. I hope his wife can finish it convincingly, but its not a given. Which is worrying.
Quote from: Cain on November 28, 2008, 02:17:31 PM
You would probably like Fire and Ice then. It doesn't really have a main character per say, but given the series owes about as much to Machiavelli as it does Tolkein, it may be exceptional in many senses. I agree about alot of High Fantasy being cliche ridden and having somewhat one-dimensional main characters.
I mean, the Wheel of Time series was certainly a classic, and stood above the rest, but its a bloody long slog to go when the conclusion (and if it fits in with the overall series) is still somewhat up in the air. I hope his wife can finish it convincingly, but its not a given. Which is worrying.
Most of this is true of
The Prince of Nothing too.
Tolstoy. It's long. I did kind of like war and peace though.
The Chosen
Well I guess it wasn't horrible.
Just tremendously dull.
Quote from: Manta Obscura on October 28, 2008, 08:59:53 PMI concur with everyone who said not to read the Bible, excepting a few parts:
1) The Song of Solomon.
2) Some of the Psalms.
3) Some of the stuff Jesus said.
4) The Book of Job.
I don't know. Job drags on and on there in the middle. Maybe it's an interesting read if you just read the first couple of chapters and then skip to the part near the end where Elihu says "and Heeeeeeeeeeeeere's God!"
I think the Psalms all suck. David just whines and moans about how everyone is out to get him. Dear God, you are so great, my enemies do evil yet they prosper, I am awesome yet I suffer, please smite all my enemies, you are so great, don't forget me and how great I am, amen. There, you just read every psalm. :D
Granted, Nehemiah was much worse than David about the whole "Hey God! Pay attention to me and see how great I am!", but at least his book was short. And he kicked peoples asses and held them in a headlock while he plucked out their hair instead of just whining and playing a harp.
Even better (or at least funnier) than Song of Solomon, is John Wesley's commentary on Song of Solomon (http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?com=wes&b=22), where he strains the metaphorical capability of the English language past its limits in his futile attempt to make SoS into something other than a poetic Penthouse letter.
I think that verse-for-verse, Numbers, Joshua, and Judges are the most action-packed books in the Bible. I'd like to see those made into a trilogy by the same folks that did 300.
For philosophy and wisdom, I think Ecclesiastes is the best book.
There's good advice in Proverbs, but there's even more bad advice. I haven't actually counted, but it's probably close to 40% good to 60% bad. If you're smart enough to figure out which is which, then you don't need the book, so Proverbs is worthless. That also goes for moral advice in the whole Bible, but THAT ratio is probably more like 25:75 good to bad, and if you're capable of discerning which is which, then you don't need a book to teach you right from wrong.
Oh yeah, I also enjoyed the book of Esther. I thought the whole Mordecai / Haman subplot was hilarious.
The rest of the Bible is crap.
Unless, of course, you're looking for a good way to make money off of suckers. But that's been done.
:lulz: I like you PMZ. Lurk less.
Well, if we're talking about parts of the Bible someone SHOULD read, I always liked the Book of Ruth. I mean, c'mon, that was one lesbian couple if I ever saw one. It was quite moving, actually.]
Oh, and hi.
Anything by Sappho > Book of Ruth
Aww, see? This just shows how little I get out. I STILL haven't read any of her stuff.
I guess I have a fond place in my heart for the Book of Ruth because it's in, apparently, the most unlikely place of all.
Quote from: Lilith Complex on February 08, 2009, 08:15:37 PM
Well, if we're talking about parts of the Bible someone SHOULD read, I always liked the Book of Ruth. I mean, c'mon, that was one lesbian couple if I ever saw one. It was quite moving, actually.
Another fun thing about Ruth is that we learn that David is an octaroon, so according to the anti-miscegenation laws in force at the time, he shouldn't have even been allowed to attend church, much less have been allowed to be king. I guess people have always picked and chosen which the parts of the Bible to follow and which parts to ignore.
Quote from: Lilith ComplexOh, and hi.
Howdy. :wave:
Whats with all the lurkers/newbies in this thread?
Not that I mind, since you seem to be non lame.
This thread seduces them out of the shadows.
Quote from: Requiem on February 09, 2009, 04:51:09 AM
Whats with all the lurkers/newbies in this thread?
We all have to start somewhere?
Quote from: Requiem
Not that I mind, since you seem to be non lame.
I'll take that as a compliment?
Quote from: brennschluss on November 27, 2008, 06:12:06 PM
Everything from the pen of Warren Ellis that isn't transmetropolitan. If you've read transmetro, you've also read anything else he's written so there's no need but warren ellis is a terrible writer.
I agree to an extent.
Doctor sleepless seems like an extension of the train of thought he had going in transmet, however I like his take on the changing roll of technology in culture.
He cant write women. Or rather he has been writing the same Diva over and over. The two girls in transmet basically had the same personality, they were also the same as his emma frost/storm, jenny sparks, anna mercury etc.
Planetary was light on content, it was more a commentary on comics in general(as opposed to parody with The Authority), However its art was fantastic and its atmosphere was great and definitely not the same as transmet.
Overall he is not a great writer but he does
some things well enough to make him worth reading, especially if the medium of comics where most everything is mediocre to bad.
Quote from: Requiem on February 09, 2009, 04:51:09 AM
Whats with all the lurkers/newbies in this thread?
Dunno, just felt like I had something interesting to say on the subject. I haven't been lurking all this time (that would be creepy) -- I just logged back on after being away for about a year or so.
Quote from: RequiemNot that I mind, since you seem to be non lame.
I read the "Attention, N00bs" thread before I posted anything.
Good job, now go read the entire TFYS,S archive, as well as at least one thread involving Wade, Daruko, or AKK, and you should be caught up.
Quote from: Requiem on February 09, 2009, 10:38:17 PM
Good job, now go read the entire TFYS,S archive, as well as at least one thread involving Wade, Daruko, IANAR, and AKK, and you should be caught up.
Fix't for :asplode:
IANAR is too horrible to inflict on the newbies. After he's had a chance to acclimate maybe.
Quote from: Requiem on February 09, 2009, 10:38:17 PMGood job, now go read the entire TFYS,S archive,
There's 9 pages of threads in there. I think I'll just take a look at the 17 page noobie thread and then see what else looks compelling.
Quote from: Requiemas well as at least one thread involving Wade, Daruko, or AKK, and you should be caught up.
I did find this thread (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=18536.0) about Wade, but I couldn't find him in the members list, so I didn't read anything he wrote.
I did find Daruko, AKK and IANAR. People who self-diagnose with Asperger's (not the people who really have it, but the people who read the list of symptoms and think, "I don't give a shit about other people -- I must have Asperger's!") are always fun to have around.
Quote from: Requiem on February 10, 2009, 12:08:25 AM
IANAR is too horrible to inflict on the newbies. After he's had a chance to acclimate maybe.
Fuck that. Go for broke.
Quote from: PastorMullahZappathruster on February 10, 2009, 03:34:50 AM
Quote from: Requiem on February 09, 2009, 10:38:17 PMGood job, now go read the entire TFYS,S archive,
There's 9 pages of threads in there. I think I'll just take a look at the 17 page noobie thread and then see what else looks compelling.
That Newbie thread is *supposed* to be hundreds of pages long, bloody purges.
Quote
Quote from: Requiemas well as at least one thread involving Wade, Daruko, or AKK, and you should be caught up.
I did find this thread (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=18536.0) about Wade, but I couldn't find him in the members list, so I didn't read anything he wrote.
I did find Daruko, AKK and IANAR. People who self-diagnose with Asperger's (not the people who really have it, but the people who read the list of symptoms and think, "I don't give a shit about other people -- I must have Asperger's!") are always fun to have around.
Wade changes his name constantly. Think he's Map & Compass right now. Look for the freshest hampster droppings, they lead to his current nest.
Well, far be it from me, a lowly noobsaucestress, to tell other noobs how to behave or what to do, but I CAN generally summarize this Wade person pretty quickly, from what little I've seen.
He's a misogynist, and a dickhole, and no one around here likes him, as far as I can tell.
Did I miss anything?
Paraguyan Navy
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on August 29, 2008, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
I second (or probably third or forth it by now) that sentiment! Jesus was indeed a Buddhist! There more of his philosophy I read the more I see Eastern thought predominant but presented in such a way as Western minds can wrap themselves around. What happened when folk wrote it down though....
Aww fuck! Really you guys? Jesus repeated over and over again he was the son of God and that no one would be saved without him. Also, the spiritual teachings even in the new testament are extremely shallow and tedious. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just because you want it to fit.
Quote from: Spiny_Norman on March 22, 2009, 12:21:23 AM
Quote from: Lupernikes_shadowbark on August 29, 2008, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on August 28, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
The Bible sucks hairy goat balls. Awful writing, boring plot, nothing of interest whatsoever. "Elia who begat Noah who begat Adam who begat Joesph who begat NO-ONE GIVES A FUCKING SHIT, THATS WHO."
Nah, you're missing the point. If you disregard any preconceived notions and all the common Christian misperceptions, Christ's philosophy is essentially Western Taoism. Christians have really butchered it with all of their homophobia and everything, but Jesus, whatever else he may have been, is still one of my favorite philosophers. Also, there really is a lot of wisdom in the Old Testament. The thing is, you can't read it as a religious text that anybody really took literally. If you think in terms of "why would they have written this?", you can, at the very least, learn a lot about ancient cultures.
I second (or probably third or forth it by now) that sentiment! Jesus was indeed a Buddhist! There more of his philosophy I read the more I see Eastern thought predominant but presented in such a way as Western minds can wrap themselves around. What happened when folk wrote it down though....
Aww fuck! Really you guys? Jesus repeated over and over again he was the son of God and that no one would be saved without him. Also, the spiritual teachings even in the new testament are extremely shallow and tedious. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just because you want it to fit.
Note: nostalgicBadger is a twit most people ignore, and Lupernikes flounced because we didn't believe quantum meant "magical". One idiot =/= everyone else.
I still contend the Bible sucks.
Agreed.
Especially comparing it to profound teachings like Tao and Buddhism.
Really? Buddhism?
:argh!:
Mm, I like bits of the Bible. Wisdom is particular always made me go, "WTF?" when I was Catholic. Seems to defy the whole, "go forth and multiply" aspect. But then, so does Paul, another "wtf?" inducing fellow.
Revelations is a whole 'nother round of fun.
I'm astounded that The Jungle by Upton Sinclair didn't make it in here. I read a couple chapters and returned it. AWFUL. There was a sense of distant grit but the characters just didn't connect with the reader and he failed at making me care about the people (it hit everyone's stomach for a damn reason).
Also, the Twilight series by Stephanie Meyer. I would like to kick Meyers in the face repeatedly. However, Cleolinda's recap of the series (http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/602881.html) is hilarious beyond belief and she dissects the thing quite aptly, I think. The series is also one giant song fic and has ruined Muse for me. :argh!:
Old Man and the Sea is another. Its got beautiful descriptions but it failed at making me care at all about the old man. Even when he was beating sharks off his catch, I couldn't give a shit because there was no connection between the reader and the character. That right there should have been the BEST moment in the book and it just wasn't.
I've heard The Jungle is bad.
As for Stephanie Myers, if you read her as comedy, it becomes a lot more tolerable. "No no dude, she's totally deconstructing the vampire genre by writing AS BAD AS IS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE". I swear, that woman should be on Fanfic.com, not the New York Times bestsellers list. But watching the moral dissonance between almost portraying teen sex (under the cover of vampirism) and her Mormon ethics is fascinating, all bad writing aside.
Quote from: Cain on March 22, 2009, 01:33:32 AM
I've heard The Jungle is bad.
As for Stephanie Myers, if you read her as comedy, it becomes a lot more tolerable. "No no dude, she's totally deconstructing the vampire genre by writing AS BAD AS IS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE". I swear, that woman should be on Fanfic.com, not the New York Times bestsellers list. But watching the moral dissonance between almost portraying teen sex (under the cover of vampirism) and her Mormon ethics is fascinating, all bad writing aside.
You heard damn right. Disgusting as hell without the character connection to make me tolerate the squick.
And yeah, she should be on FFN's list. Bella Swan = biggest Mary Sue ever. I'll agree, however, that it's interesting. I haven't fully morphed into a lolfan with Twilight, though I'm sure if I can get around my feminist rage I'm sure it'll be hilarious.
I actually reviewed the film here http://www.principiadiscordia.com/blog/cain/blow-by-blow-coverage-of-the-twilight-film/
I also recommend this page for the right mix of lol and rage http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustBugsMe/Twilight
I have yet to do more than skim the books, but eventually, when I get the time, I will review them. Chapter by chapter, if necessary.
Wow...how did Twilight become so popular? I just don't understand the appeal that this book has. Is Twilight doing for vampires what Pirates of the Caribbean did for pirates?
The link I put in my first post to the recaps? She explains it. According to her (and I agree) it fulfills every dimwitted teeny bopper/teenaged girl/stupid woman/soccer mom's deep-seated need to Mary Sue and have that impossible fairy tale love.
Never mind that that love is a creepy, passive aggressive, emotionally stunted, bipolar stalker and the beloved is an unmitigated wretch.
Quote from: Spiny_Norman on March 22, 2009, 12:21:23 AM
Jesus repeated over and over again he was the son of God.... (Partial Quote)
Where?
QuoteJohn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
QuoteLuke 22:70
Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
QuoteJohn 10
33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Jesus was called
the son of God by some of his supporters, and mockingly by some of his detractors. I know of no place in the Bible where he essentially said, "I am the son of God, and you're not." If you know of one, I'd love to see it.
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 23, 2009, 02:48:34 AM
The link I put in my first post to the recaps? She explains it. According to her (and I agree) it fulfills every dimwitted teeny bopper/teenaged girl/stupid woman/soccer mom's deep-seated need to Mary Sue and have that impossible fairy tale love.
Never mind that that love is a creepy, passive aggressive, emotionally stunted, bipolar stalker and the beloved is an unmitigated wretch.
100% correct.
It gets even creepier if you consider that
a) the narrator might be unreliable (ie it really is an abusive relationship - beyond the already mentioned factors)
b) the worrying implications of "imprinting", both generally and in the particular case of Jacob on Bella's daughter
c) Jacob is named after Meyer's brother, and Bella is clearly an Author Avatar for Meyers. For those who don't understand the implications of that, Jacob and Bella fall in love in the series.
d) Combine the above two for a REALLY SICK scenario
e) Werewolf done Ceasarian-sections (man seeing that in the films is going to be
awesome. From romance to gore in 60 secs flat)
f) necrophilia. Full stop.
Its a shame this series is protected by copyright, as I'd love to rewrite the series where the above implications are actually played out to their logical conclusions (ie Bella murdered in a fit of rage, Edward Cullen as a sexually dysfuctional control freak with serious masochistic tendencies) and see if I could sell that to the publishers. The same ones, even. I do know there are Buffy/Twilight crossovers out there, so its not entirely unthought of.
Quote from: Cain on March 22, 2009, 12:33:04 AM
I still contend the Bible sucks.
It was the best work of sci-fi/fantasy out for a long time.
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 11:56:24 AM
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
I should bring up that for a long time, PKD was essentially the epitome of a sci-fi hack writer. Even the later stuff is in really awful cliche sci-fi style. He used that as a jumping off point for good stuff. That by itself makes a good case (for me) for awful hack genres.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 09:23:00 AM
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 23, 2009, 02:48:34 AM
The link I put in my first post to the recaps? She explains it. According to her (and I agree) it fulfills every dimwitted teeny bopper/teenaged girl/stupid woman/soccer mom's deep-seated need to Mary Sue and have that impossible fairy tale love.
Never mind that that love is a creepy, passive aggressive, emotionally stunted, bipolar stalker and the beloved is an unmitigated wretch.
100% correct.
It gets even creepier if you consider that
a) the narrator might be unreliable (ie it really is an abusive relationship - beyond the already mentioned factors)
b) the worrying implications of "imprinting", both generally and in the particular case of Jacob on Bella's daughter
c) Jacob is named after Meyer's brother, and Bella is clearly an Author Avatar for Meyers. For those who don't understand the implications of that, Jacob and Bella fall in love in the series.
d) Combine the above two for a REALLY SICK scenario
e) Werewolf done Ceasarian-sections (man seeing that in the films is going to be awesome. From romance to gore in 60 secs flat)
f) necrophilia. Full stop.
Its a shame this series is protected by copyright, as I'd love to rewrite the series where the above implications are actually played out to their logical conclusions (ie Bella murdered in a fit of rage, Edward Cullen as a sexually dysfuctional control freak with serious masochistic tendencies) and see if I could sell that to the publishers. The same ones, even. I do know there are Buffy/Twilight crossovers out there, so its not entirely unthought of.
Well, there are the parodies of Lord of the Rings (Bored of the Rings) and Harry Potter (Barry Trotter and the Unauthorized Parody), so why not write a parody? I'm sure these books are copyrighted. There is also something called Fair Use which deals with using copyrighted works.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 11:56:24 AM
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
true, with very few exceptions. My problem with Sci-fi and Fantasy is how the impossible aspects such as technology or powers are used as a weak crutch to progress a bad story rather then a metaphorical tool to strengthen an already good story.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 11:56:24 AM
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
I contend that, with few exceptions, writing sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2009, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 11:56:24 AM
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
I contend that, with few exceptions, writing sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
GOLDEN TACO AWARD :taco: FOR BESTEST REDUCTIO AD ABSURDAM
Quote from: Enki-][ on March 23, 2009, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2009, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 11:56:24 AM
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
I contend that, with few exceptions, writing sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
GOLDEN TACO AWARD :taco: FOR BESTEST REDUCTIO AD ABSURDAM
But its true.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 07:31:53 PM
Quote from: Enki-][ on March 23, 2009, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2009, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 11:56:24 AM
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
I contend that, with few exceptions, writing sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
GOLDEN TACO AWARD :taco: FOR BESTEST REDUCTIO AD ABSURDAM
That's my point. It makes the "I contend that, with a few exceptions, X sucks, and is the domain of hacks" argument seem silly. Which it is, if we believe Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is shit).
But its true.
Quote from: Enki-][ on March 23, 2009, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2009, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 11:56:24 AM
I contend that, with few exceptions, fantasy as a genre sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
I contend that, with few exceptions, writing sucks, and is the domain of hacks.
GOLDEN TACO AWARD :taco: FOR BESTEST REDUCTIO AD ABSURDAM
I contend that, with few exceptions, awards suck, and are the domain of hacks.
I contend that, with few exceptions, forums suck, and are the domain of hacks.
TRY AND REFUTE THAT WHILE KEEPING A STRAIGHT FACE YOU FUCKS
Quote from: Cainad on March 23, 2009, 08:37:37 PM
I contend that, with few exceptions, forums suck, and are the domain of hacks.
Quote from: Cainad on March 23, 2009, 08:38:20 PM
TRY AND REFUTE THAT WHILE KEEPING A STRAIGHT FACE YOU FUCKS
I couldn't even read it with a straight face.
I FAIL! :lulz:
Quote from: Cainad on March 23, 2009, 08:37:37 PM
I contend that, with few exceptions, forums suck, and are the domain of hacks.
:potd:
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 09:23:00 AM
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 23, 2009, 02:48:34 AM
The link I put in my first post to the recaps? She explains it. According to her (and I agree) it fulfills every dimwitted teeny bopper/teenaged girl/stupid woman/soccer mom's deep-seated need to Mary Sue and have that impossible fairy tale love.
Never mind that that love is a creepy, passive aggressive, emotionally stunted, bipolar stalker and the beloved is an unmitigated wretch.
100% correct.
It gets even creepier if you consider that
a) the narrator might be unreliable (ie it really is an abusive relationship - beyond the already mentioned factors)
b) the worrying implications of "imprinting", both generally and in the particular case of Jacob on Bella's daughter
c) Jacob is named after Meyer's brother, and Bella is clearly an Author Avatar for Meyers. For those who don't understand the implications of that, Jacob and Bella fall in love in the series.
d) Combine the above two for a REALLY SICK scenario
e) Werewolf done Ceasarian-sections (man seeing that in the films is going to be awesome. From romance to gore in 60 secs flat)
f) necrophilia. Full stop.
Its a shame this series is protected by copyright, as I'd love to rewrite the series where the above implications are actually played out to their logical conclusions (ie Bella murdered in a fit of rage, Edward Cullen as a sexually dysfuctional control freak with serious masochistic tendencies) and see if I could sell that to the publishers. The same ones, even. I do know there are Buffy/Twilight crossovers out there, so its not entirely unthought of.
Write it anyway and seed it on fanfiction sites.
I'm a huge fan of Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman when it comes to fantasy. They are AMAZING.
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2009, 09:23:00 AM
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 23, 2009, 02:48:34 AM
The link I put in my first post to the recaps? She explains it. According to her (and I agree) it fulfills every dimwitted teeny bopper/teenaged girl/stupid woman/soccer mom's deep-seated need to Mary Sue and have that impossible fairy tale love.
Never mind that that love is a creepy, passive aggressive, emotionally stunted, bipolar stalker and the beloved is an unmitigated wretch.
100% correct.
It gets even creepier if you consider that
a) the narrator might be unreliable (ie it really is an abusive relationship - beyond the already mentioned factors)
b) the worrying implications of "imprinting", both generally and in the particular case of Jacob on Bella's daughter
c) Jacob is named after Meyer's brother, and Bella is clearly an Author Avatar for Meyers. For those who don't understand the implications of that, Jacob and Bella fall in love in the series.
d) Combine the above two for a REALLY SICK scenario
e) Werewolf done Ceasarian-sections (man seeing that in the films is going to be awesome. From romance to gore in 60 secs flat)
f) necrophilia. Full stop.
Its a shame this series is protected by copyright, as I'd love to rewrite the series where the above implications are actually played out to their logical conclusions (ie Bella murdered in a fit of rage, Edward Cullen as a sexually dysfuctional control freak with serious masochistic tendencies) and see if I could sell that to the publishers. The same ones, even. I do know there are Buffy/Twilight crossovers out there, so its not entirely unthought of.
I'd really rather write an awful, offensive porn of the entire series and flood her with it. Or post it everywhere.
But absolutely yeah. The series is effin' weird. The whole birth section (even before the c-section) is utter squick. The mutant vampire fetus breaks Bella's spine, ribs, and pelvis, and then nearly causes her to bleed out. And then feels bad about it.
Quotef) necrophilia. Full stop.
I have to ask, though. Is it like fucking a popsicle? Vampires are supposed to the cold to the touch, you know...
Jane Eyre
"the book of mormon"
"the pearl of great price"
Quote from: Sprehhan Boli on March 23, 2009, 02:42:17 PMWell, there are the parodies of Lord of the Rings (Bored of the Rings) and Harry Potter (Barry Trotter and the Unauthorized Parody), so why not write a parody? I'm sure these books are copyrighted. There is also something called Fair Use which deals with using copyrighted works.
Both had publisher's permission. I'd either have to be extremely clever (Ie Jonathan Swift/Voltaire stylee) or have that.
Also, the Twilight fanbase are insane. And I don't say that lightly. I would seriously have to consider my personal protection, since people who have badmouthed the books have been physically attacked before.
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 24, 2009, 12:08:37 AM
I'm a huge fan of Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman when it comes to fantasy. They are AMAZING.
I consider them exceptions to the general fantasy rule, along with Tolkein (for inventing the modern form of the genre) and G.R.R. Martin.
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 24, 2009, 12:08:37 AMThe mutant vampire fetus breaks Bella's spine, ribs, and pelvis, and then nearly causes her to bleed out. And then feels bad about it.
For some reason, this sums up the suck of the series far too well.
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 24, 2009, 12:08:37 AMQuotef) necrophilia. Full stop.
I have to ask, though. Is it like fucking a popsicle? Vampires are supposed to the cold to the touch, you know...
In the series, they are described as having marble hard skin. :x
Also, if he's dead, that means there is no blood flow, so there is no hard on. Marble hard, yet flaccid. Could just be me, having problems visualizing this, but I cannot imagine that feels like a good time in any way, even to an emotionally disturbed teen with pathetic dependency issues.
Quote from: Cain on March 24, 2009, 09:38:33 AM
Quote from: Sprehhan Boli on March 23, 2009, 02:42:17 PMWell, there are the parodies of Lord of the Rings (Bored of the Rings) and Harry Potter (Barry Trotter and the Unauthorized Parody), so why not write a parody? I'm sure these books are copyrighted. There is also something called Fair Use which deals with using copyrighted works.
Both had publisher's permission. I'd either have to be extremely clever (Ie Jonathan Swift/Voltaire stylee) or have that.
Also, the Twilight fanbase are insane. And I don't say that lightly. I would seriously have to consider my personal protection, since people who have badmouthed the books have been physically attacked before.
Ah, for the publisher's permission. Didn't know that one.
Yikes to the Twilight attacks. I might have to watch what I say in the future about Twilight in public.
Quote from: Cain on March 24, 2009, 09:46:57 AM
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 24, 2009, 12:08:37 AM
I'm a huge fan of Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman when it comes to fantasy. They are AMAZING.
I consider them exceptions to the general fantasy rule, along with Tolkein (for inventing the modern form of the genre) and G.R.R. Martin.
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 24, 2009, 12:08:37 AMThe mutant vampire fetus breaks Bella's spine, ribs, and pelvis, and then nearly causes her to bleed out. And then feels bad about it.
For some reason, this sums up the suck of the series far too well.
Quote from: Laughtrack on March 24, 2009, 12:08:37 AMQuotef) necrophilia. Full stop.
I have to ask, though. Is it like fucking a popsicle? Vampires are supposed to the cold to the touch, you know...
In the series, they are described as having marble hard skin. :x
Also, if he's dead, that means there is no blood flow, so there is no hard on. Marble hard, yet flaccid. Could just be me, having problems visualizing this, but I cannot imagine that feels like a good time in any way, even to an emotionally disturbed teen with pathetic dependency issues.
Just provides the opportunity to use the term "icy shaft".
Also provides the opportunity to use the phrase, "Just shove it in with your thumb!"
I'll take this opportunity to warn everyone off Mercedes Lackey.
Why is it that every girl I date absolutely insists that I read something she wrote? What the hell is with that?
I have terrible taste in women.
Mercedes Lackey also appeals to teenage girls. I used to read her when I was a teenager. I don't any more, but some people just never get over being a teenager I guess?
Ah, I guess. They were teens at the time.
Lackey is beach reading. Totally useless, irredeemably bad, but still kinda fun. Like a twinky. I wouldn't normally even consider eating one, but hell, once in a while that's what you have to have.
Quote from: Cain on March 24, 2009, 09:46:57 AM
Also, if he's dead, that means there is no blood flow, so there is no hard on. Marble hard, yet flaccid. Could just be me, having problems visualizing this, but I cannot imagine that feels like a good time in any way, even to an emotionally disturbed teen with pathetic dependency issues.
Everything else seems to flow normally--spit and apparently he has live sperm, since there's that creepy little baby thing in the last book (she's either human or dead, per se). So I dunno about the blood.
Still, Popsicle.
I did some research on this. I didn't want to, but I felt compelled. Apparently, some sort of magical venom fluid replaces their blood after they die, so apparently popsicle sex is possible.
This still does not explain Baby-Vampire-With-An-Idiot-Name, since this biology does not explain the sperm, but expecting realism, especially of the physiological kind, from a teen romance series may be asking entirely too much.
Right, right. I had forgotten about the constant need for new contacts they have. Venom dissolves the plastic or something.
Her name is Reneesme. GET IT RIGHT (or the Twihards will lynch you)
Dissolves plastic? Fuck, they're not vampires, they're aliens.
(http://rojaysoriginalart.com/BeauvaisAlien.JPG)
No doubt the Twitards will eventually catch me and put me in a cage, where children will poke me with sticks and adults will throw rotten fruit. Especially since I intend to find a large enough fandom forum and be as condescendingly mocking as possible, once I get some free time.
Also, Reneesme sounds like a name you don't say so much as slur, drunkenly, while wondering what happened to your life and why you're reduced to writing by the numbers romance with creepy undertones for the easiest target audience in history.
Quote from: Cain on March 25, 2009, 11:58:54 AM
Also, Reneesme sounds like a name you don't say so much as slur, drunkenly, while wondering what happened to your life and why you're reduced to writing by the numbers romance with creepy undertones for the easiest target audience in history.
Renee's me? I knew that Twilight was a self-insert Mary Sue, but did she have to make it LINGUISTICALLY obvious?
You know, if one person can made teenage necrophiliac romance popular, and all by making the main characters teenagers, then something tells me someone could right a story making Nazism all the rage again, so long as they make emo-ish teens the leads.
I tried that with discordianism. Unfortunately, only discordians ended up reading it. Also, people got hung up on the incest and the 14 year olds.
Quote from: Cain on March 25, 2009, 11:58:54 AM
Dissolves plastic? Fuck, they're not vampires, they're aliens.
(http://rojaysoriginalart.com/BeauvaisAlien.JPG)
No doubt the Twitards will eventually catch me and put me in a cage, where children will poke me with sticks and adults will throw rotten fruit. Especially since I intend to find a large enough fandom forum and be as condescendingly mocking as possible, once I get some free time.
Also, Reneesme sounds like a name you don't say so much as slur, drunkenly, while wondering what happened to your life and why you're reduced to writing by the numbers romance with creepy undertones for the easiest target audience in history.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa268/octareenroon91/uuu/BeauvaisAlien.jpg)
That image had hotlink protection.
Edit: and I forgot my [img] tags.
Oh, shit. Cheers for that.
Quote from: Cain on March 25, 2009, 11:58:54 AM
Especially since I intend to find a large enough fandom forum and be as condescendingly mocking as possible, once I get some free time.
Ahem: hxxp://www.thetwilightforums.com/
They even have a Fan Fic section. :lulz:
Oh nice. I tried Meyer's official site and it had one of those embedded forums which make my head hurt, so I never bothered with it.
Now I need to do a bit more research, and then start trolling.
If you notice, some of my HP slashfic trolls are plug-n-play, so you can just insert the names of your favorite Twilight characters, change a few details, and you're good to go.
Yes.
But I want to to rise above the average, ordinary "anti" (the Twitard name for anyone who disagrees that the book is awesome) troll. I intend to do something special and long term, if I find the right in. Which means I shall think about this a while, instead of blindly running in.
Being a master troll occasionally means putting off immediate satisfaction in favour of long term brilliance.
THEY HAVE DEVELOPED TERMINOLOGY.
:facepalm:
Amazingly, they've had about four years to get their obsessive fandom on. I wish I had known about this back in 2005. I would have mocked it then, too, but at least I would have been at Ground Zero, setting the trends for future generations of "antis" to follow.
Quote from: LMNO on March 25, 2009, 06:06:33 PM
THEY HAVE DEVELOPED TERMINOLOGY.
:facepalm:
Twihard came from a lolfan, actually.
I will contribute to that fic, Cain. Let's make it as awful and offensive as possible.
Sounds like a plan. I shall throw down some ideas in O:MF in a little while.
Yeeees.
My sister gave me a copy of the first book for christmas, I suppose I could crack it open and get a good grip on Myers' writing "style". That is, if I haven't thrown it away...
Take what you or I would normally say, and then inject nine or ten adjectives per noun.
I've got all four in .doc format 8) Purple prose is required, as are cardboard flat characters.
Quote from: Cain on March 25, 2009, 09:12:23 PM
I've got all four in .doc format 8) Purple prose is required, as are cardboard flat characters.
Share, please!
Turned out two of those files were broken :sad:
However, the good thing about Twilight being insanely, unreasonably popular is that there are always other working downloads if your original one turns out to be crap.
So I present, instead, pdfs of all four. I'll mirror the link in the O:MF thread too. And start reading these, and making notes tonight.
http://ifile.it/a8nk3s6
This really is the eternal debate, isn't it?
I could read Reich, Kafka, Sun Tzu, or the Twilight quadrilogy.
Decisions, decisions...
I'm reading Fisk, Robert Jordan, a book comparing Foucault with Zizek and (after dinner) Twilight.
Being unemployed is awesome.
(http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/77/Middle_finger.jpg)
I'd only spend my wages on books anyway, so its win-win really.
Dianetics.
Given the amount of debate on this thread, I think it makes it obvious that...
there are NO books that NO-ONE should read.
Quote from: Havok on April 06, 2009, 04:18:24 AM
Dianetics.
I think that goes in the category of "Books That No One Should
Believe".
Quote from: LMNO on April 07, 2009, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Havok on April 06, 2009, 04:18:24 AM
Dianetics.
I think that goes in the category of "Books That No One Should Believe".
Theoretically that should be every book ever.
For the original list:
Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know About - Kevin Trudeau.
I have a copy of that, left behind by my ex roommate. I'd burn it if I didn't think book burners should be tossed on the fire.
There are a couple of copies of it on Scribd. It's full of the really horrible alt medicine talking points about how "evil and stupid" doctors are. I miss the days when they hung quacks.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 27, 2008, 11:42:11 AM
Anything by Orson S Card except Ender's Game.
The Sword of Truth series except the first book (Wizard's first Rule)
Daniel Goleman - The Meditative Mind
... and
This thread.
;-)
I beg to differ on one point on that first point.
Ender's Shadow was also a good read. :)
Everything else seems correct enough.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on April 07, 2009, 11:52:16 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 07, 2009, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Havok on April 06, 2009, 04:18:24 AM
Dianetics.
I think that goes in the category of "Books That No One Should Believe".
Theoretically that should be every RELIGIOUS book ever.
For the original list: Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know About - Kevin Trudeau.
Fixed, textbooks and history books are books too you know :wink:
Quote from: Skieth on April 12, 2009, 02:53:40 AM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on April 07, 2009, 11:52:16 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 07, 2009, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Havok on April 06, 2009, 04:18:24 AM
Dianetics.
I think that goes in the category of "Books That No One Should Believe".
Theoretically that should be every book ever.
For the original list: Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know About - Kevin Trudeau.
Fixed, textbooks and history books are books too you know :wink:
Refixed.
History is fiction and fiction is religion.
Textbooks always contain errors and errors are fiction.
(Further, textbooks can be biased, etc.)
Quote from: the other anonymous on April 12, 2009, 02:59:47 AM
Quote from: Skieth on April 12, 2009, 02:53:40 AM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on April 07, 2009, 11:52:16 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 07, 2009, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Havok on April 06, 2009, 04:18:24 AM
Dianetics.
I think that goes in the category of "Books That No One Should Believe".
Theoretically that should be every book ever.
For the original list: Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know About - Kevin Trudeau.
Fixed, textbooks and history books are books too you know :wink:
Refixed.
History is fiction and fiction is religion.
Textbooks always contain errors and errors are fiction.
(Further, textbooks can be biased, etc.)
Please to direct us to a source of historical information that
isn't biased in some way?
Quote from: Skieth on April 12, 2009, 02:53:40 AM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on April 07, 2009, 11:52:16 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 07, 2009, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Havok on April 06, 2009, 04:18:24 AM
Dianetics.
I think that goes in the category of "Books That No One Should Believe".
Theoretically that should be every RELIGIOUS book ever.
Fixed, textbooks and history books are books too you know :wink:
No, I meant what I said when I said "every book". As Cainad pointed out, all history books are biased in one way or another. "History is written by the victors". And science textbooks are usually out of date after 4 or 5 years due to the progress of research. The only thing that could be considered close to objective are math books and even some of those are dodgy.
History is written by historians, and as such, most of the time it's mostly bullshit. Think of it like science, but without the ability to test empirically most of the time. You may on the off-chance run into some artifact that disproves a huuge chunk of canon, but you can't actually make such a thing come about.
Quote from: Enki-][ on April 12, 2009, 01:41:00 PM
History is written by historians, and as such, most of the time it's mostly bullshit. Think of it like science, but without the ability to test empirically most of the time. You may on the off-chance run into some artifact that disproves a huuge chunk of canon, but you can't actually make such a thing come about.
You actually don't have a clue how history is conducted, do you?
Cain
thinks you should STFU now, before you make an even bigger idiot of yourself.
Nope. I'm just going on the fact that while you can test a hypothesis experimentally at pretty much any time in science, you cannot necessarily test a hypothesis for how an event went down in the past, and so that hypothesis can only be disproven by the influx of information that was not previously known.
As such, the historical equivalent of, say, the phlogiston theory, would take far longer to be disproven.
I don't claim to know historical methodology inside out. I can certainly ask my mom, though, since she's a historian.
Please to note: History is a weapon (http://www.historyisaweapon.com/), not an impartial account of what happened.
Quote from: Cainad on April 12, 2009, 03:12:39 PM
Please to note: History is a weapon (http://www.historyisaweapon.com/), not an impartial account of what happened.
There are impartial accounts of things that have happened?
Quote from: Enki-][ on April 12, 2009, 03:14:48 PM
Quote from: Cainad on April 12, 2009, 03:12:39 PM
Please to note: History is a weapon (http://www.historyisaweapon.com/), not an impartial account of what happened.
There are impartial accounts of things that have happened?
Yes. Any account I give is absolutely true.
Finnegans Wake.
No one should ever read it, including myself.
It's probably my favorite book of all time.
It's retarded.
Anything by James Joyce (and by anything, I mean Finnegan's Wake and Portrait of a Artist as a Young Man) is not worth reading.
Quote from: Displayed Name on May 04, 2009, 05:05:55 AM
Anything by James Joyce (and by anything, I mean Finnegan's Wake and Portrait of a Artist as a Young Man) is not worth reading.
You could be horribly mistaken.
Quote from: Dedalus on May 04, 2009, 05:20:58 AM
Quote from: Displayed Name on May 04, 2009, 05:05:55 AM
Anything by James Joyce (and by anything, I mean Finnegan's Wake and Portrait of a Artist as a Young Man) is not worth reading.
You could be horribly mistaken.
Could be, but I'll never find out, or ever care.
Quote from: Dedalus on May 04, 2009, 05:20:58 AM
Quote from: Displayed Name on May 04, 2009, 05:05:55 AM
Anything by James Joyce (and by anything, I mean Finnegan's Wake and Portrait of a Artist as a Young Man) is not worth reading.
You could be horribly mistaken.
Finnegans Wake is something I know I'll be reading for the rest of my life. I've haven't read anything before or since that involves so much participation from the reader. It's a pure joy for me. That said, I usually don't recommend it to other people, and it's especially misleading to talk about it as a novel. Reading feels more like I'm having a conversation with myself.
I still haven't finished reading Finnegans Wake & maybe never will. I like his short stories too. Araby is one of my favorites.
Quote from: Honey on May 04, 2009, 12:27:01 PM
I still haven't finished reading Finnegans Wake & maybe never will. I like his short stories too. Araby is one of my favorites.
:oops: :oops: :oops:
Neither have I. I've gotten close, but rereading it is so much like reading an entirely different book that finishing it
almost seems irrelevant. Also, I like to hold off until I can find someone to read it with, taking turns reading it aloud. It's a whole different experience.