Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Think for Yourself, Schmuck! => Topic started by: Cainad (dec.) on February 16, 2009, 06:15:48 am

Title: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on February 16, 2009, 06:15:48 am
What if we're actually wrong about all this? This whole "Discordian" thing: the Reality Grids, the Black Iron Prison, the Shrapnel.

What if there really, truly is an Absolute Truth out there that has been figured out and distilled by wiser spags than us? Somewhere, one of those more serious religions has genuinely figured it out and is waiting patiently (or impatiently, as the case may be) for us to realize the error of our ways.

I wonder if the real truth of the matter is that we're all fucking nuts. We've all bought into this common delusion and taken the whole concept of subjective reality way too fucking far. By some common mental fault that has yet to be recognized in the psychiatric community, our diseased minds can't hold on to any one worldview long enough for it to sink in, and as a result the Real Truth just slipped through along with all the other ideas.

We're all going to hell. Or we're going to be reincarnated and forced to live through yet another life until we Figure It Out. Or we've just fucked up ourselves, and in the meantime built a movement around fucking with other people and trying get them to buy into our madness. We're sinners, or suckers, or a plague upon humanity. Maybe all three.



And then, I think about it some more and realize something. Crazy talk or not, Discordia--whatever the hell it is--is the only thing that makes sense to me anymore, and I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing because dwelling on the "what-if"s will kill me faster than I'm ready to deal with.

Hail Eris.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Thurnez Isa on February 16, 2009, 06:23:26 am
PILE UP THE WOOD, PUT UP THE STAKES AND PUT BLACK SATIN ON THE CROSSES
WE HAVE GOOD OLD FASHION BURNING TO ATTEND

j/k
 :)
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: fomenter on February 16, 2009, 07:22:08 am
dk is about to post in you thread quick hide your Cartesian dualities or he will get upset
maybe he is going to tell you what the absolute truth really is  :lulz:
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on February 16, 2009, 07:22:21 am
dk is about to post in you thread quick hide your Cartesian dualities or he will get upset

OH SHIT :scared:
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on February 16, 2009, 07:22:46 am
maybe he is going to tell you what the absolute truth really is  :lulz:

Nah, that's IANAR's job.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: fomenter on February 16, 2009, 07:31:47 am
muhahaha preemptive strike success...










oh shit i guess i was being to subtle for Mr genius he came back and posted anyway
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Dead Kennedy on February 16, 2009, 07:52:25 am
What if we're actually wrong about all this? This whole "Discordian" thing: the Reality Grids, the Black Iron Prison, the Shrapnel.

All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.

Even Discordian statements.

Quote
What if there really, truly is an Absolute Truth out there that has been figured out and distilled by wiser spags than us? Somewhere, one of those more serious religions has genuinely figured it out and is waiting patiently (or impatiently, as the case may be) for us to realize the error of our ways.

I think there is, and that we all know it, and that we just pretend we don't. Because it's too heavy, and dealing with it means accepting that everything that you're told matters doesn't.  It means giving up your ego.  I like the idea that the Absolute Truth is right there as soon as you close your mouth, and whenever you open it you're getting colder and colder and colder.

It's like...Jesus was right.  You should just say fuck it to everything, have faith that universe will take care of you ("Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?  Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?"), throw away everything you own, and devote yourself to being nice to other people and helping them.

But that's too obvious.  That can't be right.  We can't do that. We have obligations, duties, excuses.  Besides, they'll kill you.

Then there's that whole thing that Wittgenstein said.  Tables are real.  That's absolute truth.  But it's trivial, so it doesn't really help any.  The metaphysical stuff can't be known, so we might as well not talk about it.  But that doesn't help.

Quote
I wonder if the real truth of the matter is that we're all fucking nuts. We've all bought into this common delusion and taken the whole concept of subjective reality way too fucking far. By some common mental fault that has yet to be recognized in the psychiatric community, our diseased minds can't hold on to any one worldview long enough for it to sink in, and as a result the Real Truth just slipped through along with all the other ideas.

We're all going to hell. Or we're going to be reincarnated and forced to live through yet another life until we Figure It Out. Or we've just fucked up ourselves, and in the meantime built a movement around fucking with other people and trying get them to buy into our madness. We're sinners, or suckers, or a plague upon humanity. Maybe all three.

Damn straight.

I think the fucking around with other people is dangerous territory.  Everyone thinks they are a Zen Roshi, and that they know "better" than the people they fuck with.  But frequently they don't.  Frequently they are just as deluded and caught up in the Black Iron Prison as the people they think they are freeing.  They are like Christians who focus all their effort on everyone else's business, but never addressing their own sins.  They tell themselves they are breaking people out of the prison, but really it's just changing the wallpaper on the cell walls.  People need to pay more attention to breaking THEMSELVES out.

Quote
And then, I think about it some more and realize something. Crazy talk or not, Discordia--whatever the hell it is--is the only thing that makes sense to me anymore, and I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing because dwelling on the "what-if"s will kill me faster than I'm ready to deal with.

The what-ifs are pretty pointless.  But to keep on doing what you're doing...hmm.  Keep on improving what you're doing makes more sense.  Dwelling on that is actually productive.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Thurnez Isa on February 16, 2009, 07:54:39 am
come on dk
you have your own thread
just for YOU
 :D
if you insist on leaving your thread we`re going to have to pledge you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66n8snHUtNA
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Dead Kennedy on February 16, 2009, 08:10:50 am
come on dk
you have your own thread
just for YOU
 :D
if you insist on leaving your thread we`re going to have to pledge you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66n8snHUtNA

I thought it would be nice if someone gave Cainad a serious response.

You guys can feel free to derail this thread and make it about me, or just spit out more witless one-liners that do nothing to engage with Cainad's ideas, or whatever you want.  I'm not the boss of you.

That's Roger.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: East Coast Hustle on February 16, 2009, 08:22:02 am
I like the idea that the Absolute Truth is right there as soon as you close your mouth, and whenever you open it you're getting colder and colder and colder.

you must be freezing.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Template on February 16, 2009, 09:05:41 am
What if we're actually wrong about all this? This whole "Discordian" thing: the Reality Grids, the Black Iron Prison, the Shrapnel.

What if there really, truly is an Absolute Truth out there that has been figured out and distilled by wiser spags than us? Somewhere, one of those more serious religions has genuinely figured it out and is waiting patiently (or impatiently, as the case may be) for us to realize the error of our ways.

If absolute truth were known absolutely, no other thought could exist in an individual's mind, but that truth.  Not that it can't be known, just that you might have a damned hard time ever buying your own groceries or feeding yourself after discovering The Truth.

Practices that "ring true" as long as you hold them, are at least "true" in the sense of "trustworthy".  Double points for symbolizing mental discipline as a sword--capable of "ringing" and metaphorical trust.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 16, 2009, 09:27:04 am
If there is a absolute troof then it does not lie in religion. I'll tell you why.

Even if, for sake of argument, there is a god or supreme being of any description and even if this being has a mission for us, either before or after we die, we have freewill or, at the very least, the illusion of such which is tantamount to the same thing. So even if this supreme intelligence has a plan for me, if it interferes with my insignificant plans in any way then I will veto it because, ultimately, my plans are just as important as those of god, more so from my point of view.

Religion does not have the ultimate truth, unless you decide to believe it does. If you do then you are, by defininition, subjugating your will to an egregore. Whether or not this egregore actually exists is immaterial - you are voluntarily submitting yourself to slavery.

Slaves who were made so by force deserve my pity. Slaves who volunteered to wear the chains deserve my ridicule. This is my judgement - a judgement which, as I've already pointed out, is as valid as that of god.

Absolute truth is no different from any other truth - it's subjective.

Choose one and enjoy it but be warned - if I think it's dumb I'll mock you.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Template on February 16, 2009, 11:52:46 am
If there is a absolute troof then it does not lie in religion. I'll tell you why.

Even if, for sake of argument, there is a god or supreme being of any description and even if this being has a mission for us, either before or after we die, we have freewill or, at the very least, the illusion of such which is tantamount to the same thing. So even if this supreme intelligence has a plan for me, if it interferes with my insignificant plans in any way then I will veto it because, ultimately, my plans are just as important as those of god, more so from my point of view.

Religion does not have the ultimate truth, unless you decide to believe it does. If you do then you are, by defininition, subjugating your will to an egregore. Whether or not this egregore actually exists is immaterial - you are voluntarily submitting yourself to slavery.

Slaves who were made so by force deserve my pity. Slaves who volunteered to wear the chains deserve my ridicule. This is my judgement - a judgement which, as I've already pointed out, is as valid as that of god.

Absolute truth is no different from any other truth - it's subjective.

Choose one and enjoy it but be warned - if I think it's dumb I'll mock you.

the discordian is talking about plans.  Not just that, subjugating anything in favor of plans.  Granted, it's other plans.  Plans you think exist, and that you can ditch.  Can't ditch the Tao: you try harder, you get neither closer nor further.  I think the same applies for any worthwhile deity.

Quote
Religion does not have the ultimate truth, unless you decide to believe it does. If you do then you are, by defininition, subjugating your will to an egregore. Whether or not this egregore actually exists is immaterial - you are voluntarily submitting yourself to slavery.
This part, I especially don't understand.  Is the Atheist egregore somehow stronger or better?
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on February 16, 2009, 12:42:35 pm
Religion does not have the ultimate truth, unless you decide to believe it does. If you do then you are, by defininition, subjugating your will to an egregore. Whether or not this egregore actually exists is immaterial - you are voluntarily submitting yourself to slavery.
This part, I especially don't understand.  Is the Atheist egregore somehow stronger or better?

Neither. It doesn't profess to having a will or a mission for you, tho. Makes it easier for me to swallow. Bottom line - egregore = groupthink. I'm not saying don't do it. All I'm saying is don't get carried away.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: AFK on February 16, 2009, 02:43:29 pm
I don't think we're wrong.  We would be wrong if we stopped thinking.  See the phrase under my avatar.  Shrapnel, BIP, Discordianism, are open-ended explorations of our surroundings.  Our "answers" are sandwhiched between questions.  The question that got us to the "answer" and the new question birthed by the "answer".  If we didn't allow ourselves to see that new question, it would get sloppy. 

Certainly, it is conceivable and likely we could find ourselves travelling down a "wrong" path.  But even then, we're only doomed to ultimate failure if we do not constantly survey the surroundings for all possible intersections and You-turns.

Ultimately, to say we are wrong suggests having some insights on "the answer".  Since that will never happen, and as long as we allow the questions to continue, and the alternate thru-ways to be visible, I think we're in "safe" territory. 

Or, we're all just players in some sentient being's sick and twisted wet dream.  I'm okay with that too.     
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: LuciferX on November 12, 2010, 04:34:35 pm
Tell me when you started thinking and I'll let you know when to stop ;-)
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Kurt Christ on November 12, 2010, 05:51:04 pm
By some common mental fault that has yet to be recognized in the psychiatric community, our diseased minds can't hold on to any one worldview long enough for it to sink in.
Newsfeed?
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Rumckle on November 13, 2010, 04:21:06 am
And then, I think about it some more and realize something. Crazy talk or not, Discordia--whatever the hell it is--is the only thing that makes sense to me anymore, and I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing because dwelling on the "what-if"s will kill me faster than I'm ready to deal with.

Hail Eris.


Crazy or not, we're having fun, or at least I am.
Title: Re: Sometimes, I can't help but wonder...
Post by: Death on November 14, 2010, 07:08:36 pm
Absolute truth is being slowly thrust upon everyone, whether they want it or not.  We never get all of it, or understand a lot of it most of the time, but it's the learning process.  We never stop learning, in everything we do we learn something more, no matter how small or seemingly meaningless it may be.  It's all furthering us towards something bigger, something huge.  We're obviously not there, and nothing tells us that we ever will be, but coming to false conclusions is not what we're here to do or should do.  We are all ignorant, and unknowing, whether we like to accept it and believe it and consider ourselves such or not.   I don't believe that there's a group/religion that has the ultimate truth because religion usually is a stepping stone away from knowing, towards ignorance.  I don't even know if there is anyone on this Earth who knows or not.  But it doesn't really matter either way, because we don't even know what kind of difference it would make.  Even if we find out, we still die.  Whatever happens after we die is the only thing we can hold onto, because most of us aren't doing global things that further total truth awareness.  The best we can do for now is teach the people around us what we know that IS truth, and do our best to be our best, without giving up.