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Prison Bans Books and Disco Pickle Learns a Lesson

Started by Prince Glittersnatch III, May 11, 2011, 06:05:52 PM

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Disco Pickle

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:09:38 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:06:01 AM
I have no issues with putting people sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us who make the decision to not break laws.


And I have no issue with you being sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us that made the decision to not be unlucky enough to be falsely accused.

so  you'd toss the entire system because it snares and ruins the life of a few?  Even as advances are made that help prevent this?

I don't often find myself on the side of the executive branch of law enforcement, or any really unless it involves damage to people and their wellbeing, but I can't believe that there's honestly a streak here that thinks the system is so flawed it is irredeemable.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:15:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:09:38 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:06:01 AM
I have no issues with putting people sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us who make the decision to not break laws.


And I have no issue with you being sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us that made the decision to not be unlucky enough to be falsely accused.

so  you'd toss the entire system because it snares and ruins the life of a few?  Even as advances are made that help prevent this?


Nope.  I just find your take on it to be extremely offensive, in a Limbaugh-esque way, to the point where I actually hope you get to see it for yourself, as an innocent man scrambling to keep a lawyer paid.

And again, the problem has nothing to do with DNA, or other technical issues.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Disco Pickle

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:14:28 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:12:47 AM

I don't subscribe to randomness where humans are concerned.  Much as I don't consider car wrecks to be "accidents"

yes, there will be occasions where the wrong guy is targeted.  We're getting much better at discovering this, considering how bad things were for the entirety of law up until the discovery of DNA.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH DNA.

Have you ever BEEN in a felony courtroom?

I have not.  Feel free to dismiss me and my positions on that fact.  I wont take it personally, and you're right to connect that it means I can have little to no real information on the subject.

I was and am expressing my opinion.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

Disco Pickle

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:17:08 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:15:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:09:38 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:06:01 AM
I have no issues with putting people sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us who make the decision to not break laws.


And I have no issue with you being sentenced to long term time to work that benefits those of us that made the decision to not be unlucky enough to be falsely accused.

so  you'd toss the entire system because it snares and ruins the life of a few?  Even as advances are made that help prevent this?


Nope.  I just find your take on it to be extremely offensive, in a Limbaugh-esque way, to the point where I actually hope you get to see it for yourself, as an innocent man scrambling to keep a lawyer paid.

And again, the problem has nothing to do with DNA, or other technical issues.

awww now I thought we could play nice.  I'm nothing like that fuck. 

People WILL sometimes be wrongly accused.  Show me a legal system where this will not ever happen and I'll gladly back it.  It doesn't exist.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:18:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:14:28 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:12:47 AM

I don't subscribe to randomness where humans are concerned.  Much as I don't consider car wrecks to be "accidents"

yes, there will be occasions where the wrong guy is targeted.  We're getting much better at discovering this, considering how bad things were for the entirety of law up until the discovery of DNA.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH DNA.

Have you ever BEEN in a felony courtroom?

I have not.  Feel free to dismiss me and my positions on that fact.  I wont take it personally, and you're right to connect that it means I can have little to no real information on the subject.

I was and am expressing my opinion.

Then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.  It's not Law & Order SVU.  There aren't dramatic arguments about DNA evidence and ballistics experts.  It's a great big fucking set of gears, and unless you can afford the grease, you get hauled through the machine, innocent or guilty.  You are NOT, in reality, innocent until proven guilty.  You are guilty until proven White middle class.

But, yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, just like every other fucking right wing yahoo in this country.  Have it and be damned.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Phox

Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:12:47 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:08:38 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 12:49:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 12:44:08 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 11, 2011, 11:11:22 PM

But that presentation completely leaves out the fact that the only way to end up in the system is to break laws that are on the books.  I'm not saying all laws are created equal nor are all people treated equally, but the fact is that since I turned 18 and made the decision not to break any laws as an adult, I've haven't spent a single day in jail.  Fortunately, I never got caught for some of the big ones I broke when I was a juvenile.


Because you're innocent, and not lucky...because innocent people never get accused of - or convicted of - crimes they didn't commit.

RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT?

QuoteIt is still a system created by humans, with all of the problems that entails.

would you rather have no system at all?  Should lawyers not be paid better for doing more research and being more dedicated to a case than the guy who advises you to plead out?  I'm actually truly interested in your thoughts on this Rev.


No, I was just pointing out that the fact that YOU have avoided trouble doesn't mean it doesn't randomly find others.

I don't subscribe to randomness where humans are concerned.  Much as I don't consider car wrecks to be "accidents"

Stopped right there. For this reason, your opinion cannot be taken seriously. Them's the breaks.

The Good Reverend Roger

Also, a "few people"?

:lulz:

The USA has 5% of the world's population, and 25% of it's convicts.  1 in 31 people are in prison, or being "supervised".  Now, what are the fucking odds that America has MORE ACTUAL CRIMINALS than EVERY OTHER NATION ON EARTH?

:lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Doktor Phox on May 12, 2011, 01:27:23 AM

Stopped right there. For this reason, your opinion cannot be taken seriously. Them's the breaks.

Not being poor and Brown is a matter of personal responsibility, you know.  15 year old Jose may or may not have robbed that convenience store, but what the hell?  He's smudgy and we caught him walking down the street 4 blocks away.

Nothing random about that.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Remember, kids!  We commit more crimes that we did in the roaring 20s, right?  RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT?

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Disco Pickle

#54
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:20:52 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:18:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:14:28 AM
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:12:47 AM

I don't subscribe to randomness where humans are concerned.  Much as I don't consider car wrecks to be "accidents"

yes, there will be occasions where the wrong guy is targeted.  We're getting much better at discovering this, considering how bad things were for the entirety of law up until the discovery of DNA.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH DNA.

Have you ever BEEN in a felony courtroom?

I have not.  Feel free to dismiss me and my positions on that fact.  I wont take it personally, and you're right to connect that it means I can have little to no real information on the subject.

I was and am expressing my opinion.

Then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.  It's not Law & Order SVU.  There aren't dramatic arguments about DNA evidence and ballistics experts.  It's a great big fucking set of gears, and unless you can afford the grease, you get hauled through the machine, innocent or guilty.  You are NOT, in reality, innocent until proven guilty.  You are guilty until proven White middle class.

But, yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, just like every other fucking right wing yahoo in this country.  Have it and be damned.

youre thoughts seem to be colored by your experience.  I can respect that.  Since I've only ever experienced being before a judge as a juvinille for a misdemeanor, that's all I can bring to this discussion as far as experience goes.  I am aware that there are significant flaws and I'm not dismissing those.  You have not offered an alternative.  

But, yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, just like every other fucking right wing yahoo in this country.  Have it and be damned.

Your politicizing criminal law a bit there.  I was always under the impression that law was reason free of emotion.  Politicized and emotional as it may sometimes become, there are humans that would do other humans real harm on this planet and I'd prefer trial by jury of peers to the sorts of things you see happen in countries like Iran.  Again, IT'S GOING TO HAVE FLAWS.  Please present to me an idea of how you would do it better and I'll happily think of changing my mind to accept a better solution.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

Thurnez Isa

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 12, 2011, 01:30:09 AM
Also, a "few people"?

:lulz:

The USA has 5% of the world's population, and 25% of it's convicts.  1 in 31 people are in prison, or being "supervised".  Now, what are the fucking odds that America has MORE ACTUAL CRIMINALS than EVERY OTHER NATION ON EARTH?

:lulz:

Don't worry when all those DNA tests come through that number will go right down
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

The Good Reverend Roger

#56
Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:37:21 AM

Your politicizing criminal law a bit there.

Naw, I was making fun of an Objectivist.

Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:37:21 AM
I was always under the impression that law was reason free of emotion.

Are you also under the impression that the tooth fairy leaves money under your pillow?  That Santa Claus brings toys to all the good little girls and boys?  That, you know, we're all equal in the eyes of the law?

I did nothing that I was accused of, and the ONLY reason I am not in prison to this very day is that I could afford a lawyer with 5 rows of teeth (none of which are for chewing vegetables), and I could afford to travel to Illinois and back every time the prosecutor thought it would be funny to make me dance...Although, I gotta say, having seen the system, being White was definitely in my favor.

The person on their video was a foot shorter than me, olive-complected, with a bald spot that I don't have (I didn't buzz the head until after the trial), and it still took me tens of thousands of dollars, and two and a half years to deal with that shit.  

Reason free of emotion, my ass.  Have you ever even sat on a jury?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Phox

Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:37:21 AM
I was always under the impression that law was reason free of emotion.
I will now laugh derisively at you. Ha. Ha ha. Ha.

Disco Pickle

Quote from: Doktor Phox on May 12, 2011, 01:27:23 AM


Stopped right there. For this reason, your opinion cannot be taken seriously. Them's the breaks.

then please, tell me all you know of causality and how it relates to humans and their actions, their election of lawmakers, and the enforcement and adjudication of laws in this country.  

I'd like just one example of a human doing something that could be ever be thought of as being "random"

If that sounds dickish, it's not intended.  I really am learning from you guys.  I'm not just some "right wing nutjob" as the good Rev. insists.
"Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter." --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Disco Pickle on May 12, 2011, 01:44:04 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on May 12, 2011, 01:27:23 AM


Stopped right there. For this reason, your opinion cannot be taken seriously. Them's the breaks.

then please, tell me all you know of causality and how it relates to humans and their actions, their election of lawmakers, and the enforcement and adjudication of laws in this country.  

I'd like just one example of a human doing something that could be ever be thought of as being "random"

If that sounds dickish, it's not intended.  I really am learning from you guys.  I'm not just some "right wing nutjob" as the good Rev. insists.

You're Jose, walking down the street from school.  Two cops see you, having just responded to a robbery call.  You SORT OF fit the description, so hey, ho, you're face down on the back seat of the squad car, with a few new lumps, and the cops are holding a cheap gun you've never seen before, and grinning at you...Because their caseload just got easier, and they're gonna look good to the lieutenant. 

Now, that wasn't "random" from the cops' point of view, but from yours, it was random as hell.  And lots of other random shit is about to happen to you.  Oh, my, yes.

But that doesn't happen in America, right?  Cops never do that shit.  And DAs never just ramrod kids like that through, and judges never allow it, because they're totally not smashed on the vodka in their "water" glass.  No, sirree.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.