The White House All Up In Your Memetics

[Salty]

Yeah, this actually makes lot more sense when dealing with so many damned people at once with varying needs. Especially in a society driven  encouraged, and designed to consume.

A framework overlaid onto fucked up consumer system will probably not work as well as something built with social well being considered from the ground up.

But you have to do something to motivate people into taking care of themselves, even a little, right? Shaping overall economic environment seems a sensible way to do that.

Even if it is going to be implemented by a bunch of greedy fuckwads. Also, yeah, die hard, judas buffalo libertarians would probably take this to a disgusting extreme.

[Salty]

I don't exactly understand how an economic environment would work in a practical sense, as opposed to, say, seat belt laws though. But i didnt get to all the links and I gotta run.

[Doktor Howl]

I am too stupid to understand the subject material as presented in the one link I could see.

I shall leave this to my betters.

[Left]

I am too stupid to understand the subject material as presented in the one link I could see.

I shall leave this to my betters.

My ass, Dok, you're fucking brilliant.
...You just feel like battered batshit today for many reasons...
*Hands over the anti-nausea pills*

[Pergamos]

I was amused by "critics say government shouldn't assume it knows what is best for people" Isn't that sort of what Government does?

[AFK]

I don't understand the problem.  Getting more people to conserve energy and saving for retirement are GOOD things. 

[Salty]

As far as I can tell, the "nudge" comes from forced economic structures (incentive/barrier?) and even seeks to remove laws and regulations, not that officials are seeking that end.

It doesnt really involve imagery or advertising, it works at a broader level.

Seat belt laws provide and interesting example because HOW?

[Salty]

Also, whats worse:

Public safety at the cost of regulatory consequences?

Or

Public safety at the cost of regulating behavior through locked in economic channels.



Gee, I wonder. No doubt Obama wants some.of that. So would a lot of.other people.

[LMNO]

As far as I can tell, the "nudge" comes from forced economic structures (incentive/barrier?)

My understanding isn't so much "force" as it is "utilizing a person's natural tendency to seek the easiest path and framing the issue thusly."

If the "good" option is the default and you have to make an effort to opt out, the general tendency is to not do so.

[Junkenstein]

As far as I can tell, the "nudge" comes from forced economic structures (incentive/barrier?)

My understanding isn't so much "force" as it is "utilizing a person's natural tendency to seek the easiest path and framing the issue thusly."

If the "good" option is the default and you have to make an effort to opt out, the general tendency is to not do so.

The big trial for this in the UK right now is opting-out of organ donation in Wales. Seems like a measure that would be hard to argue against. Idea is that if you actually have a serious objection you'll bother to do something about it.

This could have some interesting implications in future lawmaking depending on how successful it is.

[Cain]

It's all fun and games, until you're "nudged" into another war.

Come on, do you really think the people who brought you PRISM, Stellar Wind, Sunni deathsquads in Iraq, Iran-Contra, "Kratos" units and Blackwater really have your best interests at heart?  Shit, the only reason they care about your health is because if you're dead, you can't pay taxes to help fund endless wars and bailouts.

Just how naive are you people?  For Christ's sake.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's all fun and games, until you're "nudged" into another war.

Come on, do you really think the people who brought you PRISM, Stellar Wind, Sunni deathsquads in Iraq, Iran-Contra, "Kratos" units and Blackwater really have your best interests at heart?  Shit, the only reason they care about your health is because if you're dead, you can't pay taxes to help fund endless wars and bailouts.

Just how naive are you people?  For Christ's sake.

Except it's more complicated than this, because the people in the governmental branches who came up with those things don't have much, if anything, to do with the people in the governmental branches who want to encourage people to donate their organs, get vaccinated, and exercise more.

[Cain]

In the UK they do.

Who is the head of the Cabinet Office Behavioural Insights Team?  David Halpern, Tony Blair's chief strategic advisor between 2001-2007.  What was Tony Blair mostly doing during that time?  Passing insane counter-terrorism legislation, invading other countries and authorising the creation of "kill teams" operating in the Metropolitan Police.

[Cain]

But, you know, I'm paranoid and don't know what I'm talking about.

[Left]

I was amused by "critics say government shouldn't assume it knows what is best for people" Isn't that sort of what Government does?

This is a good point.

It's all fun and games, until you're "nudged" into another war.

Come on, do you really think the people who brought you PRISM, Stellar Wind, Sunni deathsquads in Iraq, Iran-Contra, "Kratos" units and Blackwater really have your best interests at heart?  Shit, the only reason they care about your health is because if you're dead, you can't pay taxes to help fund endless wars and bailouts.

Just how naive are you people?  For Christ's sake.

I don't trust my government, not at all. 
That doesn't make it not useful...I mean, when I gave up on anarcho-syndicalism, I basically sort of accepted government as inevitable, barring vast social changes that would take generations to happen.
Dunno if that's what you call naivete.
Last time we were propagandized  and misled right into a stupid war for dubious reasons and they weren't using this stuff.

I DON'T want people to trust their governments. 
But accepting they exist and that they might actually be able to achieve more okayness than they do currently, is more realistic than overthrowing them for an anarcho-syndicalist utopia.

Got any better ideas?  I am really asking that last, because any idea that causes things to suck less is one I want to look at.