News:

Endorsement:  I am not convinced you even understand my concepts of moral relativity, so perhaps it would be best for you not to approach them.

Main Menu

Doing some research for a sci-fi story

Started by Chelagoras The Boulder, December 30, 2013, 03:20:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
can you cite the relevant quote from the bar thread? If the idea is that time doesn't exist (which i rather like btw) what does it matter which direction i move in time, and whats keeping me from moving back to the universe i started from? if time is just an ocean of moments, what makes the point i started from any different from any of the other infinite points i could chose to jump to?

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,35915.msg1321482.html#msg1321482

Conservation of Energy takes no prisoners.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
can you cite the relevant quote from the bar thread? If the idea is that time doesn't exist (which i rather like btw) what does it matter which direction i move in time, and whats keeping me from moving back to the universe i started from? if time is just an ocean of moments, what makes the point i started from any different from any of the other infinite points i could chose to jump to?

You need to work on coherence.  If time doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

Chelagoras The Boulder

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 30, 2013, 08:00:39 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
can you cite the relevant quote from the bar thread? If the idea is that time doesn't exist (which i rather like btw) what does it matter which direction i move in time, and whats keeping me from moving back to the universe i started from? if time is just an ocean of moments, what makes the point i started from any different from any of the other infinite points i could chose to jump to?

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,35915.msg1321482.html#msg1321482

Conservation of Energy takes no prisoners.
right, so you can't ever step in the same river twice, but if you wanted to go back home, let's say, could you return to some universe which diverged off of your home universe in some way that wouldn't matter, ie some guy ordered a ham sandwich instead of a hamburger?

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 30, 2013, 08:02:24 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
can you cite the relevant quote from the bar thread? If the idea is that time doesn't exist (which i rather like btw) what does it matter which direction i move in time, and whats keeping me from moving back to the universe i started from? if time is just an ocean of moments, what makes the point i started from any different from any of the other infinite points i could chose to jump to?

You need to work on coherence.  If time doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.
right, that's a good point. One idea i had was that underpinning the structure of time was that time only exists insofar as we need it to order our perception of events in a coherent manner. The universe doesn't inherently have time, we create it in order to make sense of the world around us. I think Terry Pratchett's Monks of History had something like this, where they made sure that the universe had a steady supply of time so that people could "spend time, buy time, make time and kill time" Perhaps this could be something discovered about the universe as the story develops, that the Universe in the grand scheme of things, doesn't care if you go back in time and kill your grandfather.
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 30, 2013, 08:02:24 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
can you cite the relevant quote from the bar thread? If the idea is that time doesn't exist (which i rather like btw) what does it matter which direction i move in time, and whats keeping me from moving back to the universe i started from? if time is just an ocean of moments, what makes the point i started from any different from any of the other infinite points i could chose to jump to?

You need to work on coherence.  If time doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

Buncha crap.  Time is the measurement of entropy.  Since shit falls apart, time must exist.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

From the LessWrong link:

QuoteAn unchanging quantum mist hangs over the configuration space, not churning, not flowing.

But the mist has internal structure, internal relations; and these contain time implicitly.

The dynamics of physics—falling apples and rotating galaxies—is now embodied within the unchanging mist in the unchanging configuration space.

This landscape is not frozen like a cryonics patient suspended in liquid nitrogen.  It is not motionless as an isolated system while the rest of the universe goes on without it.

The landscape is timeless; time exists only within it.  To talk about time, you have to talk about relations inside the configuration space.

Asking "What happened before the Big Bang?" is revealed as a wrong question.  There is no "before"; a "before" would be outside the configuration space.  There was never a pre-existing emptiness into which our universe exploded.  There is just this timeless mathematical object, time existing within it; and the object has a natural boundary at the Big Bang.  You cannot ask "When did this mathematical object come into existence?" because there is no t outside it.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 08:12:52 PM
right, so you can't ever step in the same river twice, but if you wanted to go back home, let's say, could you return to some universe which diverged off of your home universe in some way that wouldn't matter, ie some guy ordered a ham sandwich instead of a hamburger?

Nope.  Because the only way to move from one universe to another is to go backwards in time.  Then you don't go to "another" universe that you pick from a catalogue, you create a new universe which would by necessity be even further estranged from the one you left, the degree of estrangement being how far back in time you went.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 30, 2013, 08:15:46 PM
From the LessWrong link:

QuoteAn unchanging quantum mist hangs over the configuration space, not churning, not flowing.

But the mist has internal structure, internal relations; and these contain time implicitly.

The dynamics of physics—falling apples and rotating galaxies—is now embodied within the unchanging mist in the unchanging configuration space.

This landscape is not frozen like a cryonics patient suspended in liquid nitrogen.  It is not motionless as an isolated system while the rest of the universe goes on without it.

The landscape is timeless; time exists only within it.  To talk about time, you have to talk about relations inside the configuration space.

Asking "What happened before the Big Bang?" is revealed as a wrong question.  There is no "before"; a "before" would be outside the configuration space.  There was never a pre-existing emptiness into which our universe exploded.  There is just this timeless mathematical object, time existing within it; and the object has a natural boundary at the Big Bang.  You cannot ask "When did this mathematical object come into existence?" because there is no t outside it.

From the New American Link:

Quote from: Tetragrammaton"I Am".  There was nothing before that, nor any time.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 30, 2013, 08:13:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 30, 2013, 08:02:24 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
can you cite the relevant quote from the bar thread? If the idea is that time doesn't exist (which i rather like btw) what does it matter which direction i move in time, and whats keeping me from moving back to the universe i started from? if time is just an ocean of moments, what makes the point i started from any different from any of the other infinite points i could chose to jump to?

You need to work on coherence.  If time doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

Buncha crap.  Time is the measurement of entropy.  Since shit falls apart, time must exist.

I call this "the barstool of breakdown".
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 30, 2013, 08:13:48 PM
Buncha crap.  Time is the measurement of entropy.  Since shit falls apart, time must exist.

So, if it was possible to stop the motion of every particle in the universe, there would be no entropy, and therefore, no time would pass?

Chelagoras The Boulder

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 30, 2013, 08:15:53 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 08:12:52 PM
right, so you can't ever step in the same river twice, but if you wanted to go back home, let's say, could you return to some universe which diverged off of your home universe in some way that wouldn't matter, ie some guy ordered a ham sandwich instead of a hamburger?

Nope.  Because the only way to move from one universe to another is to go backwards in time.  Then you don't go to "another" universe that you pick from a catalogue, you create a new universe which would by necessity be even further estranged from the one you left, the degree of estrangement being how far back in time you went.
Ok, so let's say i wanted to go back to the 1950s to meet Elvis. Having done that, I can't go back to the universe i came from, but i also can't move forward to any point in the 60 years between now and then? I could choose to go back further to the 20s to meet Cole Porter, for instance, but i'd hafta wait around a while for the Beatles to show up.
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Sita

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 30, 2013, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 30, 2013, 08:13:48 PM
Buncha crap.  Time is the measurement of entropy.  Since shit falls apart, time must exist.

So, if it was possible to stop the motion of every particle in the universe, there would be no entropy, and therefore, no time would pass?
Isn't that how suspended animation or cryo sleep works?
You go to sleep now and when you wake up in 6 months you, and your body, thinks only a few seconds have passed?
:ninja:
Laugh, even if you are screaming inside. Smile, because the world doesn't care if you feel like crying.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: hirley0 on December 30, 2013, 04:07:37 PM
hile you were t8:07:37

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 03:20:36 AM


  • Ho   quantum physics?
for each CLOCK dimension there would exist a table ?...........
_____
__d5__  clock 1:  no words would be know about these(orbit//spin)
***[ PREPOSED TABLE of minisqualPHYSICAL UNITS ]*********   
_____                                           {{ gravitons? }}
__d4__  clock 2:  electrons orbit proton // electrons spin
***[ PREPOSED TABLE of quantmPHYSICAL UNITS ]********

  • I want  a schmuck?
8:22:01 am &
Look: Much of your img is true Some false? Eyes & background?
also the straigt lines ? should be vertical || and horizontal --- not divergent\/

  •   experiences.  tokenism?
8:11:54 am

  • How much is too much research?

:potd:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 30, 2013, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 30, 2013, 08:13:48 PM
Buncha crap.  Time is the measurement of entropy.  Since shit falls apart, time must exist.

So, if it was possible to stop the motion of every particle in the universe, there would be no entropy, and therefore, no time would pass?

Yes.  This is why photons don't age, and why no time would pass at any other physical "infinity" (ie, asymptotic function) such as absolute zero.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 30, 2013, 08:15:53 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 30, 2013, 08:12:52 PM
right, so you can't ever step in the same river twice, but if you wanted to go back home, let's say, could you return to some universe which diverged off of your home universe in some way that wouldn't matter, ie some guy ordered a ham sandwich instead of a hamburger?

Nope.  Because the only way to move from one universe to another is to go backwards in time.  Then you don't go to "another" universe that you pick from a catalogue, you create a new universe which would by necessity be even further estranged from the one you left, the degree of estrangement being how far back in time you went.
Ok, so let's say i wanted to go back to the 1950s to meet Elvis. Having done that, I can't go back to the universe i came from, but i also can't move forward to any point in the 60 years between now and then? I could choose to go back further to the 20s to meet Cole Porter, for instance, but i'd hafta wait around a while for the Beatles to show up.

You can always move forward in time.  You're doing it right now.

But having gone back, the universe you are in would be different.  Going back again would work, you would meet Cole Porter.  But there's no guarantee that, going forward again, the Beatles would exist as a group, or even as people.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Chelagoras The Boulder

k, well, one of the reasons i wanna be really certain about this is that one of the points of the setting is that upon discovering that time travel is a thing, they immediately sought to capitalize on the tech in the greediest way possible using many creative variations of the whole "going back to deposit all your money in your preferred bank the day they were established and then collecting on all that interest years in the future" scam. In this world, CEOs do this all the time, with varying shades of James Bond-esque supervilliany in mind. So all of these changes results in all sorts of created alternate universes with crazy historical results. Some results in blasted landscapes of what used to be earth, some are markedly better than what would've happened in any case, and some are almost the same except for some specific details.

"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."