Some belated good news

[Junkenstein]

To some extent, I can see and understand the logic. Look at say, Skyrim mods that have been developed after launch/release. My current version of skyrim probably shares little more than the name with the out of the box version.

However, that's because Bethesda launched a solid base for people to experiment with and build on. This other way round, of actually getting developers to build the base seems much riskier. If it works, I can't really knock it and indeed, will encourage it. I'm just not convinced that this is the optimal way to develop a product.

As with most things in life, there's probably a middle route (Do most development yourself, open to community pre-alpha stage for input/feedback/bugfixing) that's more practical, sensible and expensive.

Aside, I recall something I heard a short while ago, a couple of guys talking about how it's currently wildly optimistic to try and release a product with no bugs, and the best you can realistically aim for is no / minimal serious bugs. With that in mind, perhaps this whole community led model might be more viable than I initially thought.

[Junkenstein]

Also, I'll probably pick up Tropico 5 when it drops in price somewhat. The few older ones I can recall had a pretty solid sense of humor and from what I can tell the new one is in the same vein.

[Cain]

However, that's because Bethesda launched a solid base for people to experiment with and build on

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far.  Skyrim is actually notoriously hard to mod because a single mod can easily affect the whole game in unintended ways.  As such, notions like a "clean save" or "script-free" mods are a joke.  Not to mention how vanilla bugs still plague the game now, and were never resolved (case in point: current game has had vanilla bugs which did not occur in previous playthroughs)

[Junkenstein]

Alright, I should have qualified that better. "Relatively solid base". Still a better option than many developers who release shit that's broken and don't allow the community to fix faults as found.

How many other games can you recall off-hand where the creation kit is as much of a selling point as the game? I can think of Neverwinter Nights and the Starcraft map maker (which was a fucking pain to use) and that's about it really.

[Cain]

Yeah, true.  I would also add Baldur's Gate to that list though, as after the release of the Infinity Engine in 2003, thousands of mods were made for the games (and some exceptionally good ones, too.  David Gaider, who wrote the series, wrote at least one of them).

Also Fallout, Oblivion and Dragon Age have a sizeable modding community.

But I did want to mention that Skyrim is really hard to mod.  Experienced modders say it is really hard to mod.  Experienced modders who mod Bethesda games in their sleep say it's hard to mod.  For some reason, the game aspects tie together in really unusual ways, so it is very easy to change one element and have knock on effects on entirely different elements without meaning to.  So, for instance, you change an ingredient so it boosts lockpicking instead of fortifying health, and all of a sudden dragons start flying backwards. 

Also, new computer delayed until tomorrow.  Probably have everything up and running by Monday.

Incidentally, I spoke with the guy in the store, while waiting for my quote, and he said the main problem with Watch Dogs, as far as he could tell, was the graphics were not so great.  Well, apart from having to access uPlay to play the game, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[Cain]

Well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but HAL 9000 2.0 is a no go.

I bought it today.  I even got it home.  But with all the hassle of setting it up and the extra stuff I'd have to buy and install and this and that and the other...I decided it was an expensive mistake, and I should have aborted it in the first trimester returned it to the store.

So, no shiny 120 FPS brand new games for you guys.

[Reginald Ret]

Well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but HAL 9000 2.0 is a no go.

I bought it today.  I even got it home.  But with all the hassle of setting it up and the extra stuff I'd have to buy and install and this and that and the other...I decided it was an expensive mistake, and I should have aborted it in the first trimester returned it to the store.

So, no shiny 120 FPS brand new games for you guys.

Awww.
Good comp name though.

I named my comp Haephaestus' Forge.

[Junkenstein]

You realize this is basically putting a ticking clock on your current machine? They tend to be somewhat spiteful like that.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Last machine I built was called Jaws



Never been big on cable management 

[Junkenstein]

Is that an old style CRT monitor? If so, kudos. There's something about flat screens that just make them more uncomfortable to use for me. No idea why and its probably mainly spite.

That said, there are some benefits to them. They won't get nicked for one thing and any standard burglar would probably assume the PC it's attached to is of a similar age. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

This was a few years back. I'm still using this rig (or would be if it wasn't mothballed) The two GPU's melted after a couple of years and I replaced them with one card that supports dual flatscreens. I hung onto the crt for ages, tho. Right up until the refresh rate caught up.

[Cain]

No.  Well, Dragon Age: Inquisition when it comes out, of course.  I have Watch Dogs and Dark Souls 2...will be getting Pillars of Eternity of course, and if we ever hear anything concrete about Mass Effect 4, I will consider it (so long as multiplayer makes a comeback).

Aside from that, there's not a whole lot to interest me at the moment.

I'm going back and forth on the upcoming Torment game. I say upcoming, it's as close as Pillars of Eternity. I'd probably put P:T up there as finest game every written but this new one just seems wrong somehow.

Turns out Chris Avellone, one of the writers for the original Torment (and currently lead developer for Pillars of Eternity) has been confirmed for the new Torment game.  So it may not entirely suck after all.

I still struggle to see how it will live up to the original though.  It's not really clear how it relates to it, either...I mean, the story of The Nameless One is definitely at an end and, as I understand it, the new game is in an original setting, and so has nothing to do with Sigil or the D&D cosmology.

[Junkenstein]

Yeah, I caught the Avellone annoucement. It does add another reason to the "buy" column.

As I understand it, it's a thematic continuation. There will be a central question similar to Planescapes "What can change the nature of a man?" but it's a whole new set, setting, characters etc, etc.

What will make or break it I'd guess, would be this Monty fellow. I've yet to see two consistent reviews of his work and I've heard plenty of bad shit that's made me wary. It seems to be a case of "can you make a good game with Monty shitting it up in the background?"

The writing talent on POE is certainly top notch though, and I suspect Torment will suffer in comparison. Suffer quite badly too.

In fairness, I'm not at all familiar with Monty's work so I'll probably make a snap decision based on a sample of it.

[Cain]

It's my understanding that Monte Cook is capable of pretty good material, but he has a problem with abandoning projects before they are completed and/or sometimes rushing work.

[Junkenstein]

Well then. That's exactly the kind of chap you want in a kickstarter project.

Sounds like the smart money gives it a miss and waits for reliable reviews in this case. Which is a shame because this really should have been a "TAKE MY MONEY" thing.