How would they have known?
They didn't have knowledge of good nor evil so even if they had a good life they'd never have known it, correct?
Disregard the fact it's all myth.
Quote from: Tor Hershman on March 24, 2014, 05:38:34 PM
How would they have known?
They didn't have knowledge of good nor evil so even if they had a good life they'd never have known it, correct?
Disregard the fact it's all myth.
An interesting question. Can one experience something they don't have a conceptual basis for?
The entire world was created 6000 years ago, and all the fossil evidence (and human evidence prior to that date) was created right alongside it. Adam & Eve were LITERALLY true, there was some serious inbreeding, and that's why humans are STUPID and should SHUT UP.
I think the 'good' in 'good life' is different to the 'good' in 'good and evil'.
My understanding is that Adam and Eve had no concept of morality, so if you're asking whether Adam and Eve lived a moral life before the apple was eaten, the mythology says that they did and that Evil was not part of man before this act. If you're asking whether their life was 'good' and meaning 'were they content', then probably. Presumably they understood comfort before they understood Evil.
Quote from: Pæs on March 24, 2014, 10:18:26 PM
I think the 'good' in 'good life' is different to the 'good' in 'good and evil'.
My understanding is that Adam and Eve had no concept of morality, so if you're asking whether Adam and Eve lived a moral life before the apple was eaten, the mythology says that they did and that Evil was not part of man before this act. If you're asking whether their life was 'good' and meaning 'were they content', then probably. Presumably they understood comfort before they understood Evil.
Okay, so God makes humans. He makes them from primate stock, because apparently cats had too much attention span. He then puts a GREAT BIG TREE in the middle of their yard, and says they can have ANYTHING THEY WANT except for apples from THAT TREE. Which, to a monkey, is a big neon sign saying "COME FUCK WITH ME".
Meanwhile, Lucifer gets tossed out of heaven for rebelling. He rebelled because he was told to bow before man because man was superior on account of having free will. So he rebelled. Without free will.
Is this starting to smell like a set up? Anyway.
Lucifer, in the guise of a snake, gets Adam and Eve to eat one of the verboten apples. Adam - who has free will - is talked into this by the snake, with Eve's support. But now Eve is to blame, because in the male-centric view of the Abrahamic religions, Eve somehow is responsible for the obstensibly superior Adam's poor decision-making skills.
God pitches a fit, throws Adam & Eve out of the garden, and sets some really scary angels to guard the entrance so they can't go back. Lucifer gets tossed back into hell, and the poor fucking snake, who was POSSESSED at the time of the incident, loses its legs forever (so long dinosaurs!) and gets to crawl around on its belly.
God is satisfied by all of this for a few generations, then drowns everyone in a big flood, and we go back to inbreeding.
THE END.
Thank god we are mortals. Also eventually by pure luck the inbreeding would sort itself out. The whole doctor who / merlin thing of going backwards thing is a great way to pull the guilt strings.
do you think the appearance of an apple in both the story of adam and eve *and* the story of the apple of discord is a coincidence in the sense that religions often borrow themes/stories from each other?
or is it just a coincidence?
Quote from: rong on March 25, 2014, 01:52:07 AM
do you think the appearance of an apple in both the story of adam and eve *and* the story of the apple of discord is a coincidence in the sense that religions often borrow themes/stories from each other?
or is it just a coincidence?
Coincidence. Back then, they had only one fruit technology.
Quote from: rong on March 25, 2014, 01:52:07 AM
do you think the appearance of an apple in both the story of adam and eve *and* the story of the apple of discord is a coincidence in the sense that religions often borrow themes/stories from each other?
or is it just a coincidence?
What Roger said. But also, the Book of Genesis doesn't specify what the fruit is.
It was actually one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucumis_metuliferus
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2014, 10:46:06 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 24, 2014, 10:18:26 PM
I think the 'good' in 'good life' is different to the 'good' in 'good and evil'.
My understanding is that Adam and Eve had no concept of morality, so if you're asking whether Adam and Eve lived a moral life before the apple was eaten, the mythology says that they did and that Evil was not part of man before this act. If you're asking whether their life was 'good' and meaning 'were they content', then probably. Presumably they understood comfort before they understood Evil.
Okay, so God makes humans. He makes them from primate stock, because apparently cats had too much attention span. He then puts a GREAT BIG TREE in the middle of their yard, and says they can have ANYTHING THEY WANT except for apples from THAT TREE. Which, to a monkey, is a big neon sign saying "COME FUCK WITH ME".
Meanwhile, Lucifer gets tossed out of heaven for rebelling. He rebelled because he was told to bow before man because man was superior on account of having free will. So he rebelled. Without free will.
Is this starting to smell like a set up? Anyway.
Lucifer, in the guise of a snake, gets Adam and Eve to eat one of the verboten apples. Adam - who has free will - is talked into this by the snake, with Eve's support. But now Eve is to blame, because in the male-centric view of the Abrahamic religions, Eve somehow is responsible for the obstensibly superior Adam's poor decision-making skills.
God pitches a fit, throws Adam & Eve out of the garden, and sets some really scary angels to guard the entrance so they can't go back. Lucifer gets tossed back into hell, and the poor fucking snake, who was POSSESSED at the time of the incident, loses its legs forever (so long dinosaurs!) and gets to crawl around on its belly.
God is satisfied by all of this for a few generations, then drowns everyone in a big flood, and we go back to inbreeding.
THE END.
It gets better.
:cracks open Bible:
Quote from: Genesis 3:9-13But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you" He said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" The main said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate." Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent tricked me, and I ate."
God's asking a lot of information here. From humans. God. Is asking. Humans. To fill him in on information he should already know.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on March 25, 2014, 03:10:00 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2014, 10:46:06 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 24, 2014, 10:18:26 PM
I think the 'good' in 'good life' is different to the 'good' in 'good and evil'.
My understanding is that Adam and Eve had no concept of morality, so if you're asking whether Adam and Eve lived a moral life before the apple was eaten, the mythology says that they did and that Evil was not part of man before this act. If you're asking whether their life was 'good' and meaning 'were they content', then probably. Presumably they understood comfort before they understood Evil.
Okay, so God makes humans. He makes them from primate stock, because apparently cats had too much attention span. He then puts a GREAT BIG TREE in the middle of their yard, and says they can have ANYTHING THEY WANT except for apples from THAT TREE. Which, to a monkey, is a big neon sign saying "COME FUCK WITH ME".
Meanwhile, Lucifer gets tossed out of heaven for rebelling. He rebelled because he was told to bow before man because man was superior on account of having free will. So he rebelled. Without free will.
Is this starting to smell like a set up? Anyway.
Lucifer, in the guise of a snake, gets Adam and Eve to eat one of the verboten apples. Adam - who has free will - is talked into this by the snake, with Eve's support. But now Eve is to blame, because in the male-centric view of the Abrahamic religions, Eve somehow is responsible for the obstensibly superior Adam's poor decision-making skills.
God pitches a fit, throws Adam & Eve out of the garden, and sets some really scary angels to guard the entrance so they can't go back. Lucifer gets tossed back into hell, and the poor fucking snake, who was POSSESSED at the time of the incident, loses its legs forever (so long dinosaurs!) and gets to crawl around on its belly.
God is satisfied by all of this for a few generations, then drowns everyone in a big flood, and we go back to inbreeding.
THE END.
It gets better.
:cracks open Bible:
Quote from: Genesis 3:9-13But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you" He said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" The main said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate." Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent tricked me, and I ate."
God's asking a lot of information here. From humans. God. Is asking. Humans. To fill him in on information he should already know.
That's just a basic trick writers use to give exposition without using a narrator.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on March 25, 2014, 03:10:00 AM
God's asking a lot of information here. From humans. God. Is asking. Humans. To fill him in on information he should already know.
Or he's doing the "you got something you want to tell me?" schtick.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2014, 01:04:17 PM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on March 25, 2014, 03:10:00 AM
God's asking a lot of information here. From humans. God. Is asking. Humans. To fill him in on information he should already know.
Or he's doing the "you got something you want to tell me?" schtick.
I lean towards this assumption; it seems a common shaming or guilt-tripping trait among people. I suspect God, upon recognizing what has happened, was treating A&E the way an aggressive pet-owner treats their pet: "Did you shit on the rug, Fido?!?!" The owner knows that the pet did it and needn't ask, but does so through ingrained habit to bring the sub-creature's attention to its wrongdoing.
Meh
Without the serpent it would be a pretty lousy story.
Why?
"So they lived in the garden forever and everything was fine, the end".
Horseshit. When you're dealing with a god with the emotional stability of a toddler, it would have been something else sooner or later. It's not liked it mellowed out at all until personal experience of human sacrifice. And you're in BH territory if you think that's smart so there's really all kinds of issues here.
Serpent - wrong place, wrong time. Clear victim of circumstance. Even the evidence against it is circumstantial and based on hearsay. In any reasonable court that would be grounds for a mistrial at the least.
That concludes the days theology lecture.
This "without the serpent" guy is a heretic. Fucking those bozos over was God's plan all along.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on April 30, 2014, 09:36:29 PM
"So they lived in the garden forever and everything was fine, the end".
"So the two of them lived in the garden, ate until they weighed about 600 pounds each, and then - and here's the kicker -
they completed their job of naming every living creature as they had been instructed. Then God folded up the whole sideshow and called it a day."
Is that what happens when Kai finally counts all the bugs?
God is like "WELL DONE, UNIVERSE OVER."
And we're all "Fuck you, Kai."
:lulz:
"Nice job, guys. I guess I'll work on something else now".
Quote from: Pæs on May 01, 2014, 04:20:19 AM
Is that what happens when Kai finally counts all the bugs?
Technically, it's "all living things", so bacteria and viruses, etc, have to be counted.
Quote from: Tor Hershman on March 24, 2014, 05:38:34 PM
How would they have known?
They didn't have knowledge of good nor evil so even if they had a good life they'd never have known it, correct?
Disregard the fact it's all myth.
They probably had a good life -- in exactly the same way that a baby has a good life before it knows anything about the world. Even though the baby doesn't know it.
also,
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/c5060f106207f6315937c5ed781a5969/tumblr_mt6mh9IBci1rt28efo1_500.gif)
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on March 25, 2014, 03:10:00 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2014, 10:46:06 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 24, 2014, 10:18:26 PM
I think the 'good' in 'good life' is different to the 'good' in 'good and evil'.
My understanding is that Adam and Eve had no concept of morality, so if you're asking whether Adam and Eve lived a moral life before the apple was eaten, the mythology says that they did and that Evil was not part of man before this act. If you're asking whether their life was 'good' and meaning 'were they content', then probably. Presumably they understood comfort before they understood Evil.
Okay, so God makes humans. He makes them from primate stock, because apparently cats had too much attention span. He then puts a GREAT BIG TREE in the middle of their yard, and says they can have ANYTHING THEY WANT except for apples from THAT TREE. Which, to a monkey, is a big neon sign saying "COME FUCK WITH ME".
Meanwhile, Lucifer gets tossed out of heaven for rebelling. He rebelled because he was told to bow before man because man was superior on account of having free will. So he rebelled. Without free will.
Is this starting to smell like a set up? Anyway.
Lucifer, in the guise of a snake, gets Adam and Eve to eat one of the verboten apples. Adam - who has free will - is talked into this by the snake, with Eve's support. But now Eve is to blame, because in the male-centric view of the Abrahamic religions, Eve somehow is responsible for the obstensibly superior Adam's poor decision-making skills.
God pitches a fit, throws Adam & Eve out of the garden, and sets some really scary angels to guard the entrance so they can't go back. Lucifer gets tossed back into hell, and the poor fucking snake, who was POSSESSED at the time of the incident, loses its legs forever (so long dinosaurs!) and gets to crawl around on its belly.
God is satisfied by all of this for a few generations, then drowns everyone in a big flood, and we go back to inbreeding.
THE END.
It gets better.
:cracks open Bible:
Quote from: Genesis 3:9-13But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you" He said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" The main said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate." Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent tricked me, and I ate."
God's asking a lot of information here. From humans. God. Is asking. Humans. To fill him in on information he should already know.
God's not trying to figure anything out-- he's testing the humans to see if they'll lie to him.
also,
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/4779327b06378ce586f4cb5d7bae1f20/tumblr_mwdok5Wm601rt28efo1_500.gif)
The most upsetting thing about that last one is that that's not a snake, it's a legless lizard. And legless lizards are shit at climbing trees.
Ignorance is bliss.
With great power comes great responsibility.
If you want to regress back to an instinctual animal, there make rituals for that! (some involve an owl in the woods)
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 01, 2014, 05:46:08 PM
The most upsetting thing about that last one is that that's not a snake, it's a legless lizard. And legless lizards are shit at climbing trees.
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2014, 02:19:29 PM
Quote from: Pæs on May 01, 2014, 04:20:19 AM
Is that what happens when Kai finally counts all the bugs?
Technically, it's "all living things", so bacteria and viruses, etc, have to be counted.
Pedantic asshat time:
Viruses technically aren't living because they aren't cellular and are obligate intracellular parasites that require a host that actually carries out it's own metabolic processes.
I make this, admittedly, debatable distinction because viruses are weird. They're both evil and good. Evil in the sense that they destroy cells. Good in the sense that some of them change DNA, and changing DNA is an interesting endeavor.
I take a rather conservative view on this. They can't even seek out their own hosts. They just happen upon them or die. Life seeks out survival.
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myRDU7UdLrs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Quote from: LuciferX on May 20, 2014, 09:56:05 AM
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myRDU7UdLrs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
i made it about 3 steps into hell, then i realized i forgot my keys...
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 21, 2014, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 20, 2014, 09:56:05 AM
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myRDU7UdLrs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
i made it about 3 steps into hell, then i realized i forgot my keys...
Quote
...
And thrice threefold the Gates; three folds were Brass, [ 645 ]
Three Iron, three of Adamantine Rock,
Impenetrable, impal'd with circling fire,
Yet unconsum'd. Before the Gates there sat
On either side a formidable shape;
The one seem'd Woman to the waste, and fair, [ 650 ]
But ended foul in many a scaly fould
Voluminous and vast, a Serpent arm'd
With mortal sting: about her middle round
A cry of Hell Hounds never ceasing bark'd
With wide Cerberian mouths full loud, and rung [ 655 ]
A hideous Peal: yet, when they list, would creep,
If aught disturb'd thir noyse, into her woomb,
And kennel there, yet there still bark'd and howl'd
Within unseen. Farr less abhorrd than these
Vex'd Scylla bathing in the Sea that parts [ 660 ]
Calabria from the hoarse Trinacrian shore:
...
At length a universal hubbub wilde
Of stunning sounds and voices all confus'd
Borne through the hollow dark assaults his eare
With loudest vehemence: thither he plyes,
Undaunted to meet there what ever power [ 955 ]
Or Spirit of the nethermost Abyss
Might in that noise reside, of whom to ask
Which way the neerest coast of darkness lyes
Bordering on light; when strait behold the Throne
Of Chaos, and his dark Pavilion spread [ 960 ]
Wide on the wasteful Deep; with him Enthron'd
Sat Sable-vested Night, eldest of things,
The Consort of his Reign; and by them stood
Orcus and Ades, and the dreaded name
Of Demogorgon; Rumor next and Chance, [ 965 ]
And Tumult and Confusion all imbroild,
And Discord with a thousand various mouths...
Quote from: LuciferX on May 21, 2014, 07:13:32 PM
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 21, 2014, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 20, 2014, 09:56:05 AM
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myRDU7UdLrs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
i made it about 3 steps into hell, then i realized i forgot my keys...
Quote
...
And thrice threefold the Gates; three folds were Brass, [ 645 ]
Three Iron, three of Adamantine Rock,
Impenetrable, impal'd with circling fire,
Yet unconsum'd. Before the Gates there sat
On either side a formidable shape;
The one seem'd Woman to the waste, and fair, [ 650 ]
But ended foul in many a scaly fould
Voluminous and vast, a Serpent arm'd
With mortal sting: about her middle round
A cry of Hell Hounds never ceasing bark'd
With wide Cerberian mouths full loud, and rung [ 655 ]
A hideous Peal: yet, when they list, would creep,
If aught disturb'd thir noyse, into her woomb,
And kennel there, yet there still bark'd and howl'd
Within unseen. Farr less abhorrd than these
Vex'd Scylla bathing in the Sea that parts [ 660 ]
Calabria from the hoarse Trinacrian shore:
...
At length a universal hubbub wilde
Of stunning sounds and voices all confus'd
Borne through the hollow dark assaults his eare
With loudest vehemence: thither he plyes,
Undaunted to meet there what ever power [ 955 ]
Or Spirit of the nethermost Abyss
Might in that noise reside, of whom to ask
Which way the neerest coast of darkness lyes
Bordering on light; when strait behold the Throne
Of Chaos, and his dark Pavilion spread [ 960 ]
Wide on the wasteful Deep; with him Enthron'd
Sat Sable-vested Night, eldest of things,
The Consort of his Reign; and by them stood
Orcus and Ades, and the dreaded name
Of Demogorgon; Rumor next and Chance, [ 965 ]
And Tumult and Confusion all imbroild,
And Discord with a thousand various mouths...
thanks for the 'lyrics'?
i founds the sounds disturbing.
strange frequencies.
cant wait for the deadmaus' remix... 'beak of the octopus perhaps?
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 21, 2014, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 21, 2014, 07:13:32 PM
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 21, 2014, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 20, 2014, 09:56:05 AM
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myRDU7UdLrs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
i made it about 3 steps into hell, then i realized i forgot my keys...
Quote
...
And thrice threefold the Gates; three folds were Brass, [ 645 ]
Three Iron, three of Adamantine Rock,
Impenetrable, impal'd with circling fire,
Yet unconsum'd. Before the Gates there sat
On either side a formidable shape;
The one seem'd Woman to the waste, and fair, [ 650 ]
But ended foul in many a scaly fould
Voluminous and vast, a Serpent arm'd
With mortal sting: about her middle round
A cry of Hell Hounds never ceasing bark'd
With wide Cerberian mouths full loud, and rung [ 655 ]
A hideous Peal: yet, when they list, would creep,
If aught disturb'd thir noyse, into her woomb,
And kennel there, yet there still bark'd and howl'd
Within unseen. Farr less abhorrd than these
Vex'd Scylla bathing in the Sea that parts [ 660 ]
Calabria from the hoarse Trinacrian shore:
...
At length a universal hubbub wilde
Of stunning sounds and voices all confus'd
Borne through the hollow dark assaults his eare
With loudest vehemence: thither he plyes,
Undaunted to meet there what ever power [ 955 ]
Or Spirit of the nethermost Abyss
Might in that noise reside, of whom to ask
Which way the neerest coast of darkness lyes
Bordering on light; when strait behold the Throne
Of Chaos, and his dark Pavilion spread [ 960 ]
Wide on the wasteful Deep; with him Enthron'd
Sat Sable-vested Night, eldest of things,
The Consort of his Reign; and by them stood
Orcus and Ades, and the dreaded name
Of Demogorgon; Rumor next and Chance, [ 965 ]
And Tumult and Confusion all imbroild,
And Discord with a thousand various mouths...
thanks for the 'lyrics'?
i founds the sounds disturbing.
strange frequencies.
cant wait for the deadmaus' remix... 'beak of the octopus perhaps?
I think you might enjoy Soliloquy for Lilith instead, on Middle Pillar, I think.
I've been reading the board this afternoon, and I've decided that I am only going to work on my stories (and any posts on those threads from you two fucking retarded pinealists will be mercilessly split, fuck off).
I don't think I want to talk here very much anymore. There can be no exchange of ideas while boring ass "zany" fuckers are busy shitting all over everything.
Quote from: LuciferX on May 21, 2014, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 21, 2014, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 21, 2014, 07:13:32 PM
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 21, 2014, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 20, 2014, 09:56:05 AM
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myRDU7UdLrs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
i made it about 3 steps into hell, then i realized i forgot my keys...
Quote
...
And thrice threefold the Gates; three folds were Brass, [ 645 ]
Three Iron, three of Adamantine Rock,
Impenetrable, impal'd with circling fire,
Yet unconsum'd. Before the Gates there sat
On either side a formidable shape;
The one seem'd Woman to the waste, and fair, [ 650 ]
But ended foul in many a scaly fould
Voluminous and vast, a Serpent arm'd
With mortal sting: about her middle round
A cry of Hell Hounds never ceasing bark'd
With wide Cerberian mouths full loud, and rung [ 655 ]
A hideous Peal: yet, when they list, would creep,
If aught disturb'd thir noyse, into her woomb,
And kennel there, yet there still bark'd and howl'd
Within unseen. Farr less abhorrd than these
Vex'd Scylla bathing in the Sea that parts [ 660 ]
Calabria from the hoarse Trinacrian shore:
...
At length a universal hubbub wilde
Of stunning sounds and voices all confus'd
Borne through the hollow dark assaults his eare
With loudest vehemence: thither he plyes,
Undaunted to meet there what ever power [ 955 ]
Or Spirit of the nethermost Abyss
Might in that noise reside, of whom to ask
Which way the neerest coast of darkness lyes
Bordering on light; when strait behold the Throne
Of Chaos, and his dark Pavilion spread [ 960 ]
Wide on the wasteful Deep; with him Enthron'd
Sat Sable-vested Night, eldest of things,
The Consort of his Reign; and by them stood
Orcus and Ades, and the dreaded name
Of Demogorgon; Rumor next and Chance, [ 965 ]
And Tumult and Confusion all imbroild,
And Discord with a thousand various mouths...
thanks for the 'lyrics'?
i founds the sounds disturbing.
strange frequencies.
cant wait for the deadmaus' remix... 'beak of the octopus perhaps?
I think you might enjoy Soliloquy for Lilith instead, on Middle Pillar, I think.
maybe sweet freedom by michael mcdonald?
or we can meet in the middle at elton john...or should i say captain fantastic
discordia freedom!
i lu hu huv it. YES I DO!