Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Two vast and trunkless legs of stone => Topic started by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:32:27 PM

Title: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:32:27 PM
I was just thinking about the little giggle I had at seeing Von Melee and Mayhem pushing a shopping cart down the road on Tuesday, and it occurred to me that almost every 20-something I know IRL is just treading water, at best.

They never finish a Goddamn thing, they don't work unless they absolutely have to, and then the height of their ambition is a Goddamn call center, and they spend almost all of their waking hours playing mindless video games...Not even GOOD ones, but OCD shit like Wii Bowling (how pathetic is THAT), golf (a simulation of a game that's almost a sport), and puzzle-style games that consist entirely of brightly colored blocks and lots of annoying sounds.

Now, I know the economy is tough out there, I understand that jobs are thin on the ground, but...FUCK, most of these people aren't even trying.  Please note that this is anecdotal, of course, and based entirely on Tucson and Hamilton, Ontario...But still, WTF? 

Go forward half a generation, and you've got people who DO things.  LMNO, for example, works a full time job, has a steady home life, and makes music on the side.  Nigel runs her own business...Times ARE tough, and she's apparently having a hell of a time, but she's hanging on. 

By contrast, my cousin's 22 year old son is "taking a year off of college" - translation:  He flunked out - and is living at his dad's house.  No job, no ambition, nothing but Goddamn video games.

The only reason I give a shit is that these will be the "prime producers" when I'm retired, which means I'll starve to death in the cold along with them.

And there's always a fucking excuse.  With Mayhem, it was "mental illness" (translation:  She is a drone, and is too fucking lazy to shift her fat ass).  With Marcus, it was just out-and-out laziness.  Fucker has the mind of a 4 year old.  Many of the rest cite the economy, to which I respond by pointing at Nigel.  The majority, horrible as it seems, think this is how life is meant to be.

Christallfuckingmighty.  7 billion humans on the planet, and all anyone knows how to do is have more humans and sit on the fucking couch.

Words cannot express how much I hate you all.

Or Kill Me
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 05, 2011, 08:35:47 PM
110% troof!

You just know that it's all going to collapse. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part :evil:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Adios on May 05, 2011, 08:38:18 PM
I can offer you some hope, dim though it may be.

My neighbors are all 20something. They were all working at a warehouse and all got laid off. They went on unemployment right away. Both guys went to a tech school for HVAC and are now both working. The girl went to auto-body school and graduates this month and she already has a job with a dealer.

They also help this old man out by mowing my yard and carrying groceries in. They are damn good kids.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:39:34 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on May 05, 2011, 08:38:18 PM
I can offer you some hope, dim though it may be.

My neighbors are all 20something. They were all working at a warehouse and all got laid off. They went on unemployment right away. Both guys went to a tech school for HVAC and are now both working. The girl went to auto-body school and graduates this month and she already has a job with a dealer.

They also help this old man out by mowing my yard and carrying groceries in. They are damn good kids.

Yeah, and there's Kai, of course, who slaved his ass off to get his masters.

But they're the anomalies, I think.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or they just assume that someone -their parents, their friends, their friends' parents - will carry them.  There is no tomorrow, there is just the next level on the pointless fucking video game.  And then, one day, they wake up at 40, next to a shopping cart with a sleeping bag in it, with no fucking idea where their life went.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Adios on May 05, 2011, 08:42:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:39:34 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on May 05, 2011, 08:38:18 PM
I can offer you some hope, dim though it may be.

My neighbors are all 20something. They were all working at a warehouse and all got laid off. They went on unemployment right away. Both guys went to a tech school for HVAC and are now both working. The girl went to auto-body school and graduates this month and she already has a job with a dealer.

They also help this old man out by mowing my yard and carrying groceries in. They are damn good kids.

Yeah, and there's Kai, of course, who slaved his ass off to get his masters.

But they're the anomalies, I think.

Sadly you are probably right.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 05, 2011, 08:43:02 PM
To be honest I think there's always been a majority of lazy useless cunts in the world but there used to be boring repetitive jobs for them all. Now all that shit has gone to the lowest third world bidder or an army of giant robots. And there's no way any of them are up for anything that requires thinking and shit.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Adios on May 05, 2011, 08:43:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or they just assume that someone -their parents, their friends, their friends' parents - will carry them.  There is no tomorrow, there is just the next level on the pointless fucking video game.  And then, one day, they wake up at 40, next to a shopping cart with a sleeping bag in it, with no fucking idea where their life went.


That's not a life, it's a waste.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:45:29 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on May 05, 2011, 08:43:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or they just assume that someone -their parents, their friends, their friends' parents - will carry them.  There is no tomorrow, there is just the next level on the pointless fucking video game.  And then, one day, they wake up at 40, next to a shopping cart with a sleeping bag in it, with no fucking idea where their life went.


That's not a life, it's a waste.

Exactly my point.

And there's no end to them.  You can't get rid of the bastards, no matter how many condoms you sell.  I can't speak for anywhere else, but here it's got to be 80% of the 18-30 year old population.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:46:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or they just assume that someone -their parents, their friends, their friends' parents - will carry them.  There is no tomorrow, there is just the next level on the pointless fucking video game.  And then, one day, they wake up at 40, next to a shopping cart with a sleeping bag in it, with no fucking idea where their life went.


Saw this in action all too recently.  Girl got knocked up, her boyfriend's parents took them in.  These folks will put up with a LOT, good folks.  If I lost my apartment, I KNOW they'd give me couch space 'til I got my shit together... as long as I did SOMETHING.  Apparently, girl and boyfriend couldn't be bothered to wash a dish or pitch in on the home improvement going on... and were invited to leave.

Tough on 'em... but somebody had to be.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:46:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or they just assume that someone -their parents, their friends, their friends' parents - will carry them.  There is no tomorrow, there is just the next level on the pointless fucking video game.  And then, one day, they wake up at 40, next to a shopping cart with a sleeping bag in it, with no fucking idea where their life went.


Saw this in action all too recently.  Girl got knocked up, her boyfriend's parents took them in.  These folks will put up with a LOT, good folks.  If I lost my apartment, I KNOW they'd give me couch space 'til I got my shit together... as long as I did SOMETHING.  Apparently, girl and boyfriend couldn't be bothered to wash a dish or pitch in on the home improvement going on... and were invited to leave.

Tough on 'em... but somebody had to be.

Von Melee & Mayhem were living in a friend's parent's basement after they got themselves and Evil Roomie evicted from the house Evil Roomie was renting.  They sat in the room, which apparently became so vile that it made the rest of the fucking house stink (hello, assholes, do some laundry and get the 30 day old dirty dishes out of the room), and did nothing but play videogames and bitch about how their friend's parents were unreasonable and "disrespectful" as hell.

Frankly, I'm not surprised that they wound up on the streets, of course, I just wonder how it took so long.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Adios on May 05, 2011, 08:50:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:45:29 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on May 05, 2011, 08:43:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or they just assume that someone -their parents, their friends, their friends' parents - will carry them.  There is no tomorrow, there is just the next level on the pointless fucking video game.  And then, one day, they wake up at 40, next to a shopping cart with a sleeping bag in it, with no fucking idea where their life went.


That's not a life, it's a waste.

Exactly my point.

And there's no end to them.  You can't get rid of the bastards, no matter how many condoms you sell.  I can't speak for anywhere else, but here it's got to be 80% of the 18-30 year old population.

Bastards. I would kill to be able to go back to work. I even dream about doing carpentry or electrical work.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 05, 2011, 08:52:11 PM
It's not that hard to survive as long as you put in a little effort.

Okay, a lot of effort...but I'd be damned if I ever lose a fucking roof over my head. Basic needs first.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 05, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.

This.  Nathaniel Branden ruined the world.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 05, 2011, 08:58:52 PM
*drones*
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:01:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.

This.  Nathaniel Branden ruined the world.

Fucking BRAMPTON! :crankey:  Why do you produce so many asshats?

So did every indulgent parent from coast to coast.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:02:05 PM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 05, 2011, 08:58:52 PM
*drones*

Not you.  You work out, go to school, etc.

But you'll be one of maybe 30 people doing anything when my crowd retires.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 05, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
yeah but i took a year off cause i was failing just like you said  :lol:
i mean i did have a JOB and took night classes but still :P
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 05, 2011, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:01:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.

This.  Nathaniel Branden ruined the world.

Fucking BRAMPTON! :crankey:  Why do you produce so many asshats?

So did every indulgent parent from coast to coast.

I wish I had an answer for you, but if it makes you any happier, Brampton is on MY LIST.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 05, 2011, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 05, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
yeah but i took a year off cause i was failing just like you said  :lol:
i mean i did have a JOB and took night classes but still :P

That's not taking time off, that's changing tactics.  That's reasonable.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 05, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
yeah but i took a year off cause i was failing just like you said  :lol:
i mean i did have a JOB and took night classes but still :P

Again, that's different.  If you were doing what I'm talking about, you'd have spent the rest of your life playing Wii in your parent's basement.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:01:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.

This.  Nathaniel Branden ruined the world.

Fucking BRAMPTON! :crankey:  Why do you produce so many asshats?

So did every indulgent parent from coast to coast.

I wish I had an answer for you, but if it makes you any happier, Brampton is on MY LIST.

We should publish our lists in our sigs, like Payne did.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Richter on May 05, 2011, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:32:27 PM
I was just thinking about the little giggle I had at seeing Von Melee and Mayhem pushing a shopping cart down the road on Tuesday, and it occurred to me that almost every 20-something I know IRL is just treading water, at best.

They never finish a Goddamn thing, they don't work unless they absolutely have to, and then the height of their ambition is a Goddamn call center, and they spend almost all of their waking hours playing mindless video games...Not even GOOD ones, but OCD shit like Wii Bowling (how pathetic is THAT), golf (a simulation of a game that's almost a sport), and puzzle-style games that consist entirely of brightly colored blocks and lots of annoying sounds.

Now, I know the economy is tough out there, I understand that jobs are thin on the ground, but...FUCK, most of these people aren't even trying.  Please note that this is anecdotal, of course, and based entirely on Tucson and Hamilton, Ontario...But still, WTF? 

Go forward half a generation, and you've got people who DO things.  LMNO, for example, works a full time job, has a steady home life, and makes music on the side.  Nigel runs her own business...Times ARE tough, and she's apparently having a hell of a time, but she's hanging on. 

By contrast, my cousin's 22 year old son is "taking a year off of college" - translation:  He flunked out - and is living at his dad's house.  No job, no ambition, nothing but Goddamn video games.

The only reason I give a shit is that these will be the "prime producers" when I'm retired, which means I'll starve to death in the cold along with them.

And there's always a fucking excuse.  With Mayhem, it was "mental illness" (translation:  She is a drone, and is too fucking lazy to shift her fat ass).  With Marcus, it was just out-and-out laziness.  Fucker has the mind of a 4 year old.  Many of the rest cite the economy, to which I respond by pointing at Nigel.  The majority, horrible as it seems, think this is how life is meant to be.

Christallfuckingmighty.  7 billion humans on the planet, and all anyone knows how to do is have more humans and sit on the fucking couch.

Words cannot express how much I hate you all.

Or Kill Me

CHOKE FUCK SHIT COCKS HELL

Yes, I've dman well worked in call centers, and my point there every day is to square cash to keep my stuff together, and move the job into something better.  I now know more about keeping finaces together than I ever wanted to,e specially for education.  Most of my day is troubleshooting cases of "no one else can figure that out", or teaching people how our shit works.  I ahven't had a job where I wasn't a teacher.

I know 2 or three trades by proxy, and consider them all honroable fallback if the office cueb thing craps out.  
I keep my ass moving, during the week, and fuck help me if I get a night to myself.  
I teach kids to swordfight on some weekends.  I TEACH LITTLE DAMN CHIDLREN TO SWORDFIGHT.  If that doesn't jsutify my existance alone, I give up.
I can do more for myself than any boy scout I've met  (still tied with Vargus though), and WILL, to the dismay of those around me when I go fuckign primitive to get by.  
I have little use for most of the others aside from bullet shields when the feces find the fanblades, so I cnanot refute your point as a generalization.
The DOOM has come for me before, and I've stared it's shit down, rather than becoming an unemployment basket case.


Stopping this before death is not part of my plan.  If I haven't proven my fitness to survive already, then I will jump down the throat of whoever says otherwise.

OR KILL ME

Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:20:37 PM
Quote from: Richter on May 05, 2011, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:32:27 PM
I was just thinking about the little giggle I had at seeing Von Melee and Mayhem pushing a shopping cart down the road on Tuesday, and it occurred to me that almost every 20-something I know IRL is just treading water, at best.

They never finish a Goddamn thing, they don't work unless they absolutely have to, and then the height of their ambition is a Goddamn call center, and they spend almost all of their waking hours playing mindless video games...Not even GOOD ones, but OCD shit like Wii Bowling (how pathetic is THAT), golf (a simulation of a game that's almost a sport), and puzzle-style games that consist entirely of brightly colored blocks and lots of annoying sounds.

Now, I know the economy is tough out there, I understand that jobs are thin on the ground, but...FUCK, most of these people aren't even trying.  Please note that this is anecdotal, of course, and based entirely on Tucson and Hamilton, Ontario...But still, WTF? 

Go forward half a generation, and you've got people who DO things.  LMNO, for example, works a full time job, has a steady home life, and makes music on the side.  Nigel runs her own business...Times ARE tough, and she's apparently having a hell of a time, but she's hanging on. 

By contrast, my cousin's 22 year old son is "taking a year off of college" - translation:  He flunked out - and is living at his dad's house.  No job, no ambition, nothing but Goddamn video games.

The only reason I give a shit is that these will be the "prime producers" when I'm retired, which means I'll starve to death in the cold along with them.

And there's always a fucking excuse.  With Mayhem, it was "mental illness" (translation:  She is a drone, and is too fucking lazy to shift her fat ass).  With Marcus, it was just out-and-out laziness.  Fucker has the mind of a 4 year old.  Many of the rest cite the economy, to which I respond by pointing at Nigel.  The majority, horrible as it seems, think this is how life is meant to be.

Christallfuckingmighty.  7 billion humans on the planet, and all anyone knows how to do is have more humans and sit on the fucking couch.

Words cannot express how much I hate you all.

Or Kill Me

CHOKE FUCK SHIT COCKS HELL

Yes, I've dman well worked in call centers, and my point there every day is to square cash to keep my stuff together, and move the job into something better.  I now know more about keeping finaces together than I ever wanted to,e specially for education.  Most of my day is troubleshooting cases of "no one else can figure that out", or teaching people how our shit works.  I ahven't had a job where I wasn't a teacher.

I know 2 or three trades by proxy, and consider them all honroable fallback if the office cueb thing craps out.  
I keep my ass moving, during the week, and fuck help me if I get a night to myself.  
I teach kids to swordfight on some weekends.  I TEACH LITTLE DAMN CHIDLREN TO SWORDFIGHT.  If that doesn't jsutify my existance alone, I give up.
I can do more for myself than any boy scout I've met  (still tied with Vargus though), and WILL, to the dismay of those around me when I go fuckign primitive to get by.  
I have little use for most of the others aside from bullet shields when the feces find the fanblades, so I cnanot refute your point as a generalization.
The DOOM has come for me before, and I've stared it's shit down, rather than becoming an unemployment basket case.


Stopping this before death is not part of my plan.  If I haven't proven my fitness to survive already, then I will jump down the throat of whoever says otherwise.

OR KILL ME



Like I said, I can only speak to Tucson and Hamilton.  I lump you in with LMNO.  You're always doing something.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 05, 2011, 09:21:48 PM
I don't understand it, myself.

Herbert and I were constantly met with challenges, and we fucking DEALT WITH IT AS ADULTS.

I got a divorce and moved out and FUCKING DEALT WITH IT AS AN ADULT.

How old am I?

28.

The generational gap isn't a big one anymore, that's for sure.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Johnny on May 05, 2011, 09:37:03 PM

The motherfuckers i go to school with think that School=party/socialize

they do the bare minimum to pass, never look up something that isnt requirement, dont have an interest in learning, etc.

and most of them dont even have a job, fucking bums
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 05, 2011, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:01:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.

This.  Nathaniel Branden ruined the world.

Fucking BRAMPTON! :crankey:  Why do you produce so many asshats?

So did every indulgent parent from coast to coast.

I wish I had an answer for you, but if it makes you any happier, Brampton is on MY LIST.

We should publish our lists in our sigs, like Payne did.

Done.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:01:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.

This.  Nathaniel Branden ruined the world.

Fucking BRAMPTON! :crankey:  Why do you produce so many asshats?

So did every indulgent parent from coast to coast.

I wish I had an answer for you, but if it makes you any happier, Brampton is on MY LIST.

We should publish our lists in our sigs, like Payne did.

Done.

Elton John?  HEATHEN!
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 05, 2011, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:01:08 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 05, 2011, 08:38:03 PM
They've all been told they're special, unique snowflakes, and the world OWES them something.

Or some shit.

This.  Nathaniel Branden ruined the world.

Fucking BRAMPTON! :crankey:  Why do you produce so many asshats?

So did every indulgent parent from coast to coast.

I wish I had an answer for you, but if it makes you any happier, Brampton is on MY LIST.

We should publish our lists in our sigs, like Payne did.

Done.

Elton John?  HEATHEN!

I gotta be me.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 05, 2011, 09:54:54 PM
I gotta agree, it's pathetic.

I'm tempted to make my kids move out and get jobs before I'll send 'em to college, just so they understand what the alternative to doing well in school is.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on May 05, 2011, 09:55:20 PM
Love the OP!!!  We've discussed this before Roger.  You know my thinking on it.  

This generation of 18-25 (with exceptions so the first one to say oh what about whoever, STFU) year olds all seem to feel they are owed something.  

Now you and I, Roger, and Nigel and Charley too (and I am sure others so again.....) we were raised that hard work was the way to get somewhere.  As a result, we learned to work hard and play hard.  We never thought we deserved anything we hadn't earned, except for clean air.

That's been the hardest thing for me with my kids.  They see all of their friends with a new pair of shoes every few weeks, new clothes every time you turn around (as if washing something was a sin) and more electronics than MIT.  The problem is, their parents have no comprehension that they are ruining their kid's lives.  These kids do not realize that someone actually worked to earn the money for all this shit.  They ask and are given.  

My kids, well, I've been probably harder than I had to be, but I've done it for them.  If they want something that is necessary, then they have to work for it.  I pay well for extra chores being done.  I also pay for exceptional grades.  Now this isn't always cold hard cash.  Sometimes it is a bump in their shoe budget, or getting their clothes from Aeropostal (sp) or American Eagle as opposed to WalMart.  But the thing is, they understand the value of a dollar and they rarely ask for something they haven't made the effort to earn.

Their friends don't understand this concept at all.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on May 05, 2011, 09:59:25 PM
I have a friend who has roughly 5-10 pairs of shoes.
Theyre fucking expensive shoes too, like $200 pairs.

He wasted an ENTIRE PAYCHECK on $200 dollar shoes.
Then he wasted ANOTHER FUCKING PAYCHECK ON THE EXACT SAME FUCKING SHOES AGAIN AFSLDKJASLFJSDF
only they were in a different color. He also thinks MW2 is a great game.

Its the same thing with everyone I know my age. Im no Buddha myself but I cant believe how much people obsess over stupid materialistic shit like this.

Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Richter on May 05, 2011, 10:08:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 09:20:37 PM
Quote from: Richter on May 05, 2011, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:32:27 PM
I was just thinking about the little giggle I had at seeing Von Melee and Mayhem pushing a shopping cart down the road on Tuesday, and it occurred to me that almost every 20-something I know IRL is just treading water, at best.

They never finish a Goddamn thing, they don't work unless they absolutely have to, and then the height of their ambition is a Goddamn call center, and they spend almost all of their waking hours playing mindless video games...Not even GOOD ones, but OCD shit like Wii Bowling (how pathetic is THAT), golf (a simulation of a game that's almost a sport), and puzzle-style games that consist entirely of brightly colored blocks and lots of annoying sounds.

Now, I know the economy is tough out there, I understand that jobs are thin on the ground, but...FUCK, most of these people aren't even trying.  Please note that this is anecdotal, of course, and based entirely on Tucson and Hamilton, Ontario...But still, WTF? 

Go forward half a generation, and you've got people who DO things.  LMNO, for example, works a full time job, has a steady home life, and makes music on the side.  Nigel runs her own business...Times ARE tough, and she's apparently having a hell of a time, but she's hanging on. 

By contrast, my cousin's 22 year old son is "taking a year off of college" - translation:  He flunked out - and is living at his dad's house.  No job, no ambition, nothing but Goddamn video games.

The only reason I give a shit is that these will be the "prime producers" when I'm retired, which means I'll starve to death in the cold along with them.

And there's always a fucking excuse.  With Mayhem, it was "mental illness" (translation:  She is a drone, and is too fucking lazy to shift her fat ass).  With Marcus, it was just out-and-out laziness.  Fucker has the mind of a 4 year old.  Many of the rest cite the economy, to which I respond by pointing at Nigel.  The majority, horrible as it seems, think this is how life is meant to be.

Christallfuckingmighty.  7 billion humans on the planet, and all anyone knows how to do is have more humans and sit on the fucking couch.

Words cannot express how much I hate you all.

Or Kill Me

CHOKE FUCK SHIT COCKS HELL

Yes, I've dman well worked in call centers, and my point there every day is to square cash to keep my stuff together, and move the job into something better.  I now know more about keeping finaces together than I ever wanted to,e specially for education.  Most of my day is troubleshooting cases of "no one else can figure that out", or teaching people how our shit works.  I ahven't had a job where I wasn't a teacher.

I know 2 or three trades by proxy, and consider them all honroable fallback if the office cueb thing craps out.  
I keep my ass moving, during the week, and fuck help me if I get a night to myself.  
I teach kids to swordfight on some weekends.  I TEACH LITTLE DAMN CHIDLREN TO SWORDFIGHT.  If that doesn't jsutify my existance alone, I give up.
I can do more for myself than any boy scout I've met  (still tied with Vargus though), and WILL, to the dismay of those around me when I go fuckign primitive to get by.  
I have little use for most of the others aside from bullet shields when the feces find the fanblades, so I cnanot refute your point as a generalization.
The DOOM has come for me before, and I've stared it's shit down, rather than becoming an unemployment basket case.


Stopping this before death is not part of my plan.  If I haven't proven my fitness to survive already, then I will jump down the throat of whoever says otherwise.

OR KILL ME



Like I said, I can only speak to Tucson and Hamilton.  I lump you in with LMNO.  You're always doing something.

Didn't want to assume, thanks though.
Had to shit the hate
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Eater of Clowns on May 05, 2011, 10:09:49 PM
Speaking as a 20-something and as a mother,

This trend has been going on for about ten years.  Young adults are waiting longer and longer to move out of mom & dad's, etc.  I can say that almost all of my friends and acquaintances are college grads with massive debt and meager salaries that are still managing to live comfortable lives on their own.

A lot of it is disillusionment.  I don't know about previous age groups, but I remember the rhetoric growing up.  Go to college, get a degree.  Don't go for money, go for something you love.  So a bunch of us did, and we got useless degrees and entered into an economy that tanked.  It took me about eight months to leave home, and I consider myself lucky for being able to do so (right priced apartment, job earning about 10k more than projected for my major, etc).

I guess I don't have a specific point other than that it might just be a matter of exposure.  I mean, I could tell you how many inmates I get coming into the facility in their late teens and twenties that have never held a job in their lives and are "disabled."  But being the representation of the population that it is, that trend extends well above that age range.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on May 05, 2011, 10:17:33 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 05, 2011, 10:09:49 PM
Speaking as a 20-something and as a mother,

This trend has been going on for about ten years.  Young adults are waiting longer and longer to move out of mom & dad's, etc.  I can say that almost all of my friends and acquaintances are college grads with massive debt and meager salaries that are still managing to live comfortable lives on their own.

A lot of it is disillusionment.  I don't know about previous age groups, but I remember the rhetoric growing up.  Go to college, get a degree.  Don't go for money, go for something you love.  So a bunch of us did, and we got useless degrees and entered into an economy that tanked.  It took me about eight months to leave home, and I consider myself lucky for being able to do so (right priced apartment, job earning about 10k more than projected for my major, etc).

I guess I don't have a specific point other than that it might just be a matter of exposure.  I mean, I could tell you how many inmates I get coming into the facility in their late teens and twenties that have never held a job in their lives and are "disabled."  But being the representation of the population that it is, that trend extends well above that age range.

I always thought you were a dude......
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Eater of Clowns on May 05, 2011, 10:19:17 PM
Quote from: Khara on May 05, 2011, 10:17:33 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 05, 2011, 10:09:49 PM
Speaking as a 20-something and as a mother,

This trend has been going on for about ten years.  Young adults are waiting longer and longer to move out of mom & dad's, etc.  I can say that almost all of my friends and acquaintances are college grads with massive debt and meager salaries that are still managing to live comfortable lives on their own.

A lot of it is disillusionment.  I don't know about previous age groups, but I remember the rhetoric growing up.  Go to college, get a degree.  Don't go for money, go for something you love.  So a bunch of us did, and we got useless degrees and entered into an economy that tanked.  It took me about eight months to leave home, and I consider myself lucky for being able to do so (right priced apartment, job earning about 10k more than projected for my major, etc).

I guess I don't have a specific point other than that it might just be a matter of exposure.  I mean, I could tell you how many inmates I get coming into the facility in their late teens and twenties that have never held a job in their lives and are "disabled."  But being the representation of the population that it is, that trend extends well above that age range.

I always thought you were a dude......


Well thanks!  I am a dude.  The "as a mother" thing is a joke.   :)
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on May 05, 2011, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 05, 2011, 10:19:17 PM
Quote from: Khara on May 05, 2011, 10:17:33 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 05, 2011, 10:09:49 PM
Speaking as a 20-something and as a mother,

This trend has been going on for about ten years.  Young adults are waiting longer and longer to move out of mom & dad's, etc.  I can say that almost all of my friends and acquaintances are college grads with massive debt and meager salaries that are still managing to live comfortable lives on their own.

A lot of it is disillusionment.  I don't know about previous age groups, but I remember the rhetoric growing up.  Go to college, get a degree.  Don't go for money, go for something you love.  So a bunch of us did, and we got useless degrees and entered into an economy that tanked.  It took me about eight months to leave home, and I consider myself lucky for being able to do so (right priced apartment, job earning about 10k more than projected for my major, etc).

I guess I don't have a specific point other than that it might just be a matter of exposure.  I mean, I could tell you how many inmates I get coming into the facility in their late teens and twenties that have never held a job in their lives and are "disabled."  But being the representation of the population that it is, that trend extends well above that age range.

I always thought you were a dude......


Well thanks!  I am a dude.  The "as a mother" thing is a joke.   :)

:argh!:

And I've been sitting here thinking damn, I could hang out with a woman like that, she's got balls as big as mine....   :wink:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jasper on May 05, 2011, 10:21:29 PM
24 year old checking in.  I hate my age group.  I am quitting it as soon as possible.  I already have grey hairs, which came as a relief when I found them.

That is all.

Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on May 05, 2011, 10:24:00 PM
I fear what will happen when the "Hannah Montana" generation gets to be 20 somethings.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 05, 2011, 10:27:13 PM
How the hell do people in their 20s get on permanent disability and SSI for the rest of their lives? WTF is the secret?!
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Eater of Clowns on May 05, 2011, 10:32:34 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on May 05, 2011, 10:27:13 PM
How the hell do people in their 20s get on permanent disability and SSI for the rest of their lives? WTF is the secret?!

In some circles, it's important to teach your kids how to change a tire or check your engine oil.

In others, it's important to teach them how to scam the system.

Then there are the circles of many 20-somethings, where it was just never that big of a family value to teach your kids anything at all.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Juana on May 05, 2011, 10:36:26 PM
I went through a drone-y phase. Got bored after about a year and got my shit together. I was in school the entire time, but did next to nothing and scraped Cs (mostly).


But I see it every-fucking-where amongst the students I work with. I have three right now who are the epitome of what you're talking about, Roger, and I want to punt them across the courtyard.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 10:37:11 PM
Quote from: Hover Cat on May 05, 2011, 10:36:26 PM
I went through a drone-y phase. Got bored after about a year and got my shit together. I was in school the entire time, but did next to nothing and scraped Cs (mostly).


But I see it every-fucking-where amongst the students I work with. I have three right now who are the epitome of what you're talking about, Roger, and I want to punt them across the courtyard.

I wouldn't.  They make a horrible fucking noise, and then there's loads of paperwork.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Freeky on May 05, 2011, 10:40:04 PM
I am horrified at being a drone, and I know I am one.  I really don't want to be.  I am TRYING not to be.


Failure is a bitch.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Tomahawks on May 05, 2011, 10:40:04 PM
I am horrified at being a drone, and I know I am one.  I really don't want to be.  I am TRYING not to be.


Failure is a bitch.

So stop failing.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Juana on May 05, 2011, 10:46:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 10:37:11 PM
Quote from: Hover Cat on May 05, 2011, 10:36:26 PM
I went through a drone-y phase. Got bored after about a year and got my shit together. I was in school the entire time, but did next to nothing and scraped Cs (mostly).


But I see it every-fucking-where amongst the students I work with. I have three right now who are the epitome of what you're talking about, Roger, and I want to punt them across the courtyard.

I wouldn't.  They make a horrible fucking noise, and then there's loads of paperwork.
I can deal with the noise. The paperwork, though...
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: East Coast Hustle on May 05, 2011, 11:13:16 PM
Quote from: Khara on May 05, 2011, 09:55:20 PM
Love the OP!!!  We've discussed this before Roger.  You know my thinking on it.  

This generation of 18-25 (with exceptions so the first one to say oh what about whoever, STFU) year olds all seem to feel they are owed something.  

Now you and I, Roger, and Nigel and Charley too (and I am sure others so again.....) we were raised that hard work was the way to get somewhere.  As a result, we learned to work hard and play hard.  We never thought we deserved anything we hadn't earned, except for clean air.

That's been the hardest thing for me with my kids.  They see all of their friends with a new pair of shoes every few weeks, new clothes every time you turn around (as if washing something was a sin) and more electronics than MIT.  The problem is, their parents have no comprehension that they are ruining their kid's lives.  These kids do not realize that someone actually worked to earn the money for all this shit.  They ask and are given.  

My kids, well, I've been probably harder than I had to be, but I've done it for them.  If they want something that is necessary, then they have to work for it.  I pay well for extra chores being done.  I also pay for exceptional grades.  Now this isn't always cold hard cash.  Sometimes it is a bump in their shoe budget, or getting their clothes from Aeropostal (sp) or American Eagle as opposed to WalMart.  But the thing is, they understand the value of a dollar and they rarely ask for something they haven't made the effort to earn.

Their friends don't understand this concept at all.

High-fuckin'-five! Fuck, the biggest reason I fucking want fucking kids possibly ever is so I can be assured that SOMEONE in a mostly fucking useless generation is going to retain that fucking concept and hopefully pass it on, like fucking secret tribal lore or some shit.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on May 05, 2011, 11:25:14 PM
I had a conversation with some of my friends in HR recently and they have noted a stark change in young people being interviewed. One of them said it feels like they are the ones doing the interviewing... "You may expect me to work more than 40 hours?!?!?!" "I only get HOW MUCH vacation?"

In discussing it, there seemed to be a number of reasons... some of it, absolutely is a 'you owe us' kind of attitude. Some of it though (according to my friends) seems to be a post-American view. The 'protestant work ethic' has been turned on its head, these kids grew up watching their successful parents get shitcanned, their grandparents, after a lifetime of work are greeting people at WalMart.

There was an interesting lecture on RSA Animate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc which talks about what motivates us.

The American system motivation was IF you work hard in school and go to college and work hard in a career, you'll have a nice retirement. The motivation works, if the subject believes that they will eventually/maybe get the reward (apparently dopamine levels actual shoot higher on a potential future reward than on a guaranteed immediate one...). However, who in their right mind would believe in the American system as motivation today?

Its as if the younger generation is asking, If everyone gets fucked, even those that work hard and apply themselves, why bother?

Of course, in the end, its still their life and their responsibility to do something with it. I think though that this might be a bit of the 'shrapnel' thats figuring into their decisions.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Triple Zero on May 05, 2011, 11:29:15 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 05, 2011, 09:54:54 PM
I gotta agree, it's pathetic.

I'm tempted to make my kids move out and get jobs before I'll send 'em to college, just so they understand what the alternative to doing well in school is.

Sometimes I wish my parents had done that.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 05, 2011, 11:58:56 PM
I worked my way through college. I had no choice, and STILL don't.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 12:26:22 AM
Speaking as a freshly-minted 30-year-old . . . YEAH!!!

I can build a house (the wood part, not the electric part), hunt, butcher, make leather, plow, plant, harvest, raise critters, grow a garden . . . basically build a farm and live on it quite happily with lots of work and minimal fuss.

I have two jobs and I'm looking for a third. I walk and crochet, etc.

I have skills that do not involve video games, facebook, and Twitter.

And kids I worked with when I was a dispatcher/security at a private university spent all their time pimping their dorm room with daddy's credit card and then breaking everything in the room on a drunk weekend and then bitching when daddy wouldn't buy them a new $3000 HD LCD TV wall-panel thing.

I don't get it and I don't want to get it.

And stuff.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: East Coast Hustle on May 06, 2011, 12:30:10 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 12:26:22 AM
I don't get it and I don't want to get it.

And stuff.

This.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: maphdet on May 06, 2011, 12:54:47 AM
I think the issue is that Both parents now a days Have to work to make ends meet. So you have two people who work 40 hrs a week. Add driving to and from school, then hw, then daily household keepup, etc. However, that being said-I am Sure there Are parents out there who work full time and have to keep up with everything but still manage to teach their children well.  Hmmm....maybe that is the key- teach your children well. (sorry bout the hippie lyrics but I think it holds true).

We have lost the time to spend quality, teaching time with our kids. Maybe.
I hope it's not people just not giving a fuck. Really. I hope not.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Phox on May 06, 2011, 12:57:22 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 12:26:22 AM
I don't get it and I don't want to get it.

And stuff.
Nor do I.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 06, 2011, 01:40:55 AM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on May 05, 2011, 11:13:16 PM
Quote from: Khara on May 05, 2011, 09:55:20 PM
Love the OP!!!  We've discussed this before Roger.  You know my thinking on it.  

This generation of 18-25 (with exceptions so the first one to say oh what about whoever, STFU) year olds all seem to feel they are owed something.  

Now you and I, Roger, and Nigel and Charley too (and I am sure others so again.....) we were raised that hard work was the way to get somewhere.  As a result, we learned to work hard and play hard.  We never thought we deserved anything we hadn't earned, except for clean air.

That's been the hardest thing for me with my kids.  They see all of their friends with a new pair of shoes every few weeks, new clothes every time you turn around (as if washing something was a sin) and more electronics than MIT.  The problem is, their parents have no comprehension that they are ruining their kid's lives.  These kids do not realize that someone actually worked to earn the money for all this shit.  They ask and are given.  

My kids, well, I've been probably harder than I had to be, but I've done it for them.  If they want something that is necessary, then they have to work for it.  I pay well for extra chores being done.  I also pay for exceptional grades.  Now this isn't always cold hard cash.  Sometimes it is a bump in their shoe budget, or getting their clothes from Aeropostal (sp) or American Eagle as opposed to WalMart.  But the thing is, they understand the value of a dollar and they rarely ask for something they haven't made the effort to earn.

Their friends don't understand this concept at all.

High-fuckin'-five! Fuck, the biggest reason I fucking want fucking kids possibly ever is so I can be assured that SOMEONE in a mostly fucking useless generation is going to retain that fucking concept and hopefully pass it on, like fucking secret tribal lore or some shit.

This is really important! People don't realize.

I attended a lecture a month or so ago, about childhood brain development. The lecturer expressed real sorrow at the fact that most kids just aren't raised right, and we end up with a world populated with neurotic, insecure, self-centered, dysfunctional adults.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 02:39:23 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 06, 2011, 01:40:55 AM
This is really important! People don't realize.

I attended a lecture a month or so ago, about childhood brain development. The lecturer expressed real sorrow at the fact that most kids just aren't raised right, and we end up with a world populated with neurotic, insecure, self-centered, dysfunctional adults.

Yeah. That last bit pretty much applies to me. I left home at 18 and have been deprogramming myself ever since.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on May 06, 2011, 02:44:58 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 06, 2011, 01:40:55 AM
This is really important! People don't realize.

I attended a lecture a month or so ago, about childhood brain development. The lecturer expressed real sorrow at the fact that most kids just aren't raised right, and we end up with a world populated with neurotic, insecure, self-centered, dysfunctional adults.

What were the specifics on how kids werent raised right?
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on May 06, 2011, 04:20:10 AM
I don't know Roger, I stopped hanging out with the lazy gamer slobs after about 7th grade and never looked back.

I have to deal with them less and less at school since drones generally drop out before they get to upper division courses. Man, if you had asked about them a few years ago I would've blown a gasket. I had to go to school with them, had to listen to their diarrhea of the mouth at work, and then, at the end of the day I had to go live with them at student housing.

I don't have a job now, but have been able to get by via selling off my valuables and mooching off my parents here and there. I'm working my nards off at school and keep filling out job applications but I still feel like a schlep because I have no real income. Yeah, it's nice that my parents can help me out, but that's no replacement for the inimitable Slack that comes with earning your keep.

My brain talks to me when I look at the mirror, "Dude, you're 27 and still dependent on mommy and daddy?" And I shake my head in disgust. At least I can say it hasn't always been like this.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 04:21:25 AM
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on May 06, 2011, 04:20:10 AM
I don't know Roger, I stopped hanging out with the lazy gamer slobs after about 7th grade and never looked back.

I have to deal with them less and less at school since drones generally drop out before they get to upper division courses. Man, if you had asked about them a few years ago I would've blown a gasket. I had to go to school with them, had to listen to their diarrhea of the mouth at work, and then, at the end of the day I had to go live with them at student housing.

I don't have a job now, but have been able to get by via selling off my valuables and mooching off my parents here and there. I'm working my nards off at school and keep filling out job applications but I still feel like a schlep because I have no real income. Yeah, it's nice that my parents can help me out, but that's no replacement for the inimitable Slack that comes with earning your keep.

My brain talks to me when I look at the mirror, "Dude, you're 27 and still dependent on mommy and daddy?" And I shake my head in disgust. At least I can say it hasn't always been like this.

Not drone behavior.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Wizard on May 06, 2011, 04:46:18 AM
Have been watching kids grow up into these things the last couple of years. I think it's mostly disillusionment, pampering parents, or just out and out laziness. I know a guy in my grade (17 years) whose mom still picks out his clothes every day. I also know a lot who either don't think they're smart enough or that there's no point in trying. Then of course there are the lazy assholes who can't be bothered to do anything but smoke pot and play video games or mess around on Facebook.

Anyway, I'm still a kid, more or less, so I don't have exactly the distance to get a clear perspective. This is just what I've noticed.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: maphdet on May 06, 2011, 05:00:23 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on May 06, 2011, 04:46:18 AM
Have been watching kids grow up into these things the last couple of years. I think it's mostly disillusionment, pampering parents, or just out and out laziness. I know a guy in my grade (17 years) whose mom still picks out his clothes every day. I also know a lot who either don't think they're smart enough or that there's no point in trying. Then of course there are the lazy assholes who can't be bothered to do anything but smoke pot and play video games or mess around on Facebook.

Anyway, I'm still a kid, more or less, so I don't have exactly the distance to get a clear perspective. This is just what I've noticed.

WHAT IN THE FUCCK---My Three Year Old Picks out her Own Clothes Every Morning---Upon Approval from me-She can wear most anything (if it is washed and cleaned).

WTF-See 17 yr old people not being able to pick out their own clothes.

FUK-

We Are All Fucked.

**throws Arms Up In The Air**
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Wizard on May 06, 2011, 05:01:33 AM
Quote
WHAT IN THE FUCCK---My Three Year Old Picks out her Own Clothes Every Morning---Upon Approval from me-She can wear most anything (if it is washed and cleaned).

WTF-See 17 yr old people not being able to pick out their own clothes.

FUK-

We Are All Fucked.

**throws Arms Up In The Air**

Yup. And he's not the only kid I know who has a similar situation.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 06, 2011, 05:04:41 AM
I had adults choosing my clothes until i was 18.... loluniforms
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: maphdet on May 06, 2011, 05:11:03 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on May 06, 2011, 05:01:33 AM
Quote
WHAT IN THE FUCCK---My Three Year Old Picks out her Own Clothes Every Morning---Upon Approval from me-She can wear most anything (if it is washed and cleaned).

WTF-See 17 yr old people not being able to pick out their own clothes.

FUK-

We Are All Fucked.

**throws Arms Up In The Air**

Yup. And he's not the only kid I know who has a similar situation.

I wanna know why.

Why-Why are people breeding who do not nor cannot teach these adolescence peeps soon to be adults-how to be self sufficient.


Fred-Really- you had peeps choosing what you were going to wear at age 18?

No disrespect-(cause I dig you) but What The Fuck, couldn't you make your own decisions and sustain yourself at age EIGHTEEN????

I pegged you as a self sustained being.
(were you forced into this arrangement?)
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Phox on May 06, 2011, 05:12:23 AM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 06, 2011, 05:04:41 AM
loluniforms
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Wizard on May 06, 2011, 05:12:35 AM
Quote
Fred-Really- you had peeps choosing what you were going to wear at age 18?

No disrespect-(cause I dig you) but What The Fuck, couldn't you make your own decisions and sustain yourself at age EIGHTEEN????

I pegged you as a self sustained being.
(were you forced into this arrangement?)

I'm pretty sure Fred's talking about school uniforms.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Don Coyote on May 06, 2011, 05:13:00 AM
I have little to no choice in the clothing I wear on a day to day basis.....

I am also near the end of a 4 year break from college....

Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Freeky on May 06, 2011, 05:15:12 AM
Army is different than buggering off and living in someone's basement for a year or four.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Don Coyote on May 06, 2011, 05:16:27 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Tomahawks on May 06, 2011, 05:15:12 AM
Army is different than buggering off and living in someone's basement for a year or four.
The similarities are fucking  :horrormirth:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 06, 2011, 05:16:54 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on May 06, 2011, 05:12:35 AM
Quote
Fred-Really- you had peeps choosing what you were going to wear at age 18?

No disrespect-(cause I dig you) but What The Fuck, couldn't you make your own decisions and sustain yourself at age EIGHTEEN????

I pegged you as a self sustained being.
(were you forced into this arrangement?)

I'm pretty sure Fred's talking about school uniforms.

indeed. and even when we had "free clothes" days they restricted what we could wear
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: maphdet on May 06, 2011, 05:19:13 AM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on May 06, 2011, 05:16:54 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on May 06, 2011, 05:12:35 AM
Quote
Fred-Really- you had peeps choosing what you were going to wear at age 18?

No disrespect-(cause I dig you) but What The Fuck, couldn't you make your own decisions and sustain yourself at age EIGHTEEN????

I pegged you as a self sustained being.
(were you forced into this arrangement?)

I'm pretty sure Fred's talking about school uniforms.

indeed. and even when we had "free clothes" days they restricted what we could wear

Ah -School uniforms. I see now.

Clarified on my end.

Carry On.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Kurt Christ on May 06, 2011, 05:23:38 AM
I've seen entirely too many bright peers fail because of lack of motivation. I never really got it. Maybe it's because my parents aren't the same generation as most of my peers' (I'm a child of my dad's second marriage- my oldest half-brother is forty).
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 06, 2011, 06:22:31 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 02:39:23 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 06, 2011, 01:40:55 AM
This is really important! People don't realize.

I attended a lecture a month or so ago, about childhood brain development. The lecturer expressed real sorrow at the fact that most kids just aren't raised right, and we end up with a world populated with neurotic, insecure, self-centered, dysfunctional adults.

Yeah. That last bit pretty much applies to me. I left home at 18 and have been deprogramming myself ever since.

Myself as well.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 06, 2011, 06:24:26 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on May 06, 2011, 02:44:58 AM

Quote from: Nigel on May 06, 2011, 01:40:55 AM
This is really important! People don't realize.

I attended a lecture a month or so ago, about childhood brain development. The lecturer expressed real sorrow at the fact that most kids just aren't raised right, and we end up with a world populated with neurotic, insecure, self-centered, dysfunctional adults.

What were the specifics on how kids werent raised right?

In this case it was about childhood trauma and brain development, and trauma included parental abandonment, abuse, and neglect. "Abandonment" can include divorce when one parent is incapable or unwilling to parent cooperatively. "Abuse" can include a distant, overly critical, or nonresponsive parent.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Payne on May 06, 2011, 06:39:33 AM
I moseyed along my early twenties in employment but doing nothing actually worthwhile (supermarket monkey slave, then call centre for HSBC).

Then the world fell on my head, and I indulged in a several year slump in productivity and usefulness.

During this slump I did do a bit of rewiring of my brain thoug, I think, for now that I have entered the world I'm doing it awesome style. My pay may be kinda shit, but that is actually unimportant - I'm learning useful shit and getting some sweet assed resume gold here. The boss has effectively put me in charge of £200,000 worth of stock (a part of the company which effectively makes up about a fifth of our income), and while it's slightly more work for pretty much the same pay it's something I can translate into Moar Bettarer in the future if I apply clevernes.

I have only taken a few days off sick since I re-started work, and I was genuinely ill. I cycle to work every day and as my work is quite physical labour intensive, I've lost a SHIT TON of weight.

I can actually come back from work and have a weird kind of buzz: I'm not happy about having to go out to work every day, but seeing as I have to then I do my part well enough, get paid and leave pretty much all the extraneous bullshit that inevitably rises from working at the door. And hell, because my work is usually mundane due to early application of cleverness I can listen to audio uni lectures on my headphones as I paint, repair and monitor use of all of our skips and containers. In the last few months I have learnt more about: astronomy, quantum physics, Shakespeare, The Crusades, the History of The United States, the history of the English language, the great "World Religions", ideas in philosophy, mythology of the  Greeks, Romans and ancient Middle East and a unch of literature including The Iliad, The Oddyssey, Dante's Divine Comedy and a whole bunch of lesser works, and a whole fuckton f other courses I haven't listed.

At some point soon I want to look into getting myself onto a respectable home learning coure on History (aiming towards a degree), sort out a driving license (which my boss has offered to pay for) and continue finding new ways to treat Pixie as a proper real princess.

Life, in short, is fucking spctaculawlsome now.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 06, 2011, 08:05:27 AM
You, Payne Our Lord, are AWESOME.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Faust on May 06, 2011, 10:38:03 AM
Until I hit 25 I was in a dead end retail job and very unhappy with where I was and what I was doing. Then within the space of a few months I got a research masters offer, and also started as an engineer for an embedded networks place.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2011, 01:41:31 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/TNFd6.jpg)

Of course, I have managed to do both.

"Everything in moderation.  Except hookers and blow" - Aristotle
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 01:48:42 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:32:27 PM
I was just thinking about the little giggle I had at seeing Von Melee and Mayhem pushing a shopping cart down the road on Tuesday, and it occurred to me that almost every 20-something I know IRL is just treading water, at best.

They never finish a Goddamn thing, they don't work unless they absolutely have to, and then the height of their ambition is a Goddamn call center, and they spend almost all of their waking hours playing mindless video games...Not even GOOD ones, but OCD shit like Wii Bowling (how pathetic is THAT), golf (a simulation of a game that's almost a sport), and puzzle-style games that consist entirely of brightly colored blocks and lots of annoying sounds.

Now, I know the economy is tough out there, I understand that jobs are thin on the ground, but...FUCK, most of these people aren't even trying.  Please note that this is anecdotal, of course, and based entirely on Tucson and Hamilton, Ontario...But still, WTF? 

Go forward half a generation, and you've got people who DO things.  LMNO, for example, works a full time job, has a steady home life, and makes music on the side.  Nigel runs her own business...Times ARE tough, and she's apparently having a hell of a time, but she's hanging on. 

By contrast, my cousin's 22 year old son is "taking a year off of college" - translation:  He flunked out - and is living at his dad's house.  No job, no ambition, nothing but Goddamn video games.

The only reason I give a shit is that these will be the "prime producers" when I'm retired, which means I'll starve to death in the cold along with them.

And there's always a fucking excuse.  With Mayhem, it was "mental illness" (translation:  She is a drone, and is too fucking lazy to shift her fat ass).  With Marcus, it was just out-and-out laziness.  Fucker has the mind of a 4 year old.  Many of the rest cite the economy, to which I respond by pointing at Nigel.  The majority, horrible as it seems, think this is how life is meant to be.

Christallfuckingmighty.  7 billion humans on the planet, and all anyone knows how to do is have more humans and sit on the fucking couch.

Words cannot express how much I hate you all.

Or Kill Me

As I was settling into my second Negroni, I started thinking about this, and something struck me: This may be the result of allowing Disney to reinterpret the American Dream.

Simply put, they focus on the happy ending: "...you can be whoever you want to be".  The myth is ingrained into almost everything.  But they forget the first part, "If you work hard enough..."  

So kids just sit around like Michael Oher in The Blind Side, waiting for Sandra Bullock to give them a house and a scholaship and a football career*.  And you know what?  It's an easy myth to believe, because you can see it all around you, if you carefully excise the painful bits.  I gotta be honest, I fucked around in my 20's, thanks to a genetic lottery that came with a trust fund.  And even though I 'knew' what it took to be a rock star, I somehow thought that my skills would naturally float me to the top, rather than having to claw my way there.  But when shit got real, I knew what I had to do, and I got it done.  

It should be interesting to see the next crop of kids come through the office this summer.  Nothing scrapes off the sparking idealism like SEC regulations.














*This isn't what actually happened. That kid worked his ass off.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 06, 2011, 01:50:07 PM
There's a reason why I'm back in school. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.

"It Gets Better" doesn't mean people will get nicer.  It means your skin will toughen up.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2011, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.

I always assume Lady Gaga is trolling.

Interesting celebrity factoid: Lady Gaga and Katy Perry hate each other.  Katy Perry, when not dressing as a virtual porn star for her "music videos" (which everyone watches with the sound off) says Lady Gaga does not have Good Christian Morals, like her. 
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 02:29:23 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.

"It Gets Better" doesn't mean people will get nicer.  It means your skin will toughen up.

This.

No shit.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 06, 2011, 02:33:48 PM
People most certainly don't get nicer, you just learn to deal with assholes differently.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: AFK on May 06, 2011, 02:37:40 PM
Fuck you I'm the nicest goddamn person you'd ever meet on this shithole of a planet!

:mrgreen:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 02:38:32 PM
Oddly enough, I kind of believe that.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 06, 2011, 02:42:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.

"It Gets Better" doesn't mean people will get nicer.  It means your skin will toughen up.

I was thinking more of Born This Way, the central message I got was "you're perfect just how you are", which can be translated into "so why try harder?".
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 06, 2011, 02:44:45 PM
There's an awful lot of "special snowflake" songs that have come out lately. Pink is also guilty. She's also a Scientologist now, which automatically makes her opinion on anything invalid.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 06, 2011, 02:46:42 PM
She's a Scientologist?!
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:42:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.

"It Gets Better" doesn't mean people will get nicer.  It means your skin will toughen up.

I was thinking more of Born This Way, the central message I got was "you're perfect just how you are", which can be translated into "so why try harder?".

That one I actually approve of...  I read it as, "you may not look like Angelina Jolie, but that's just fine."  Accept yourself...  Sure, do what you can with what you've got... but, don't beat yourself up over being different.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Dysfunctional Cunt on May 06, 2011, 02:47:31 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:42:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.

"It Gets Better" doesn't mean people will get nicer.  It means your skin will toughen up.

I was thinking more of Born This Way, the central message I got was "you're perfect just how you are", which can be translated into "so why try harder?".


I'm not being snarky, I'm curious as to what people think...

So, If we take that, do you think people are born predisposed to think the world owes them something?  So it wouldn't matter how they were raised, they would turn out that way anyway?

Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Eater of Clowns on May 06, 2011, 02:48:00 PM
Well I for one think that the problem with young people today is the rock music and the video games
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Suu on May 06, 2011, 02:48:05 PM
Yeah, they snatched her up a couple years ago after her divorce. Got her when she was down, naturally.

"Look! A rich depressed celebrity! CACHING!"
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on May 06, 2011, 02:44:45 PM
There's an awful lot of "special snowflake" songs that have come out lately. Pink is also guilty. She's also a Scientologist now, which automatically makes her opinion on anything invalid.

:x  Noooooooooooo!
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 02:52:53 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 06, 2011, 02:48:00 PM
Well I for one think that the problem with young people today is the rock music and the video games

Rock music is fine.  (Sure, some of it sucks, some of it awesome, average it out to "fine.")  Video games are a lovely way to waste a couple of hours.  (Me, I haven't played in ages... mostly because my laptop shat the bed and I'm working from a netbook that lags out playing Minesweeper, but, hey...)

The problem is the ATTITUDE.  When music, or video games, or some other form of entertainment becomes the be-all and end-all of your existence, then you've got a problem.  I've been guilty of it...  Hell, I do it now, to some extent, with SCA stuff, seems most of my free time goes to it...  But, I make an effort to do other stuff, too, when time allows.

Balance.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: AFK on May 06, 2011, 02:52:59 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on May 06, 2011, 02:44:45 PM
There's an awful lot of "special snowflake" songs that have come out lately. Pink is also guilty. She's also a Scientologist now, which automatically makes her opinion on anything invalid.

Yeah, Selena Gomez has one too which is all over the Disney Channel and Radio Disney. It's beyond fucking ridiculous.  The line that cheeses me off the most is when she's talking about the "price of beauty".  As in, the "price of beauty" for the girls who are pretty on the inside.  That people are fucking with you because of how gorgeous your personality is.  Yeah, that means alot coming from the pretty Disney starlet.  
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 02:59:30 PM
Hoops, the message I got from "Born This Way" is more, "Stop fucking with me, asshole."

Then again, I'm always willing to cut GaGa some slack.



Also, P!nk, say it ain't so....
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Succulent Plant on May 06, 2011, 05:00:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2011, 08:32:27 PM
I was just thinking about the little giggle I had at seeing Von Melee and Mayhem pushing a shopping cart down the road on Tuesday, and it occurred to me that almost every 20-something I know IRL is just treading water, at best.

They never finish a Goddamn thing, they don't work unless they absolutely have to, and then the height of their ambition is a Goddamn call center, and they spend almost all of their waking hours playing mindless video games...Not even GOOD ones, but OCD shit like Wii Bowling (how pathetic is THAT), golf (a simulation of a game that's almost a sport), and puzzle-style games that consist entirely of brightly colored blocks and lots of annoying sounds.

Now, I know the economy is tough out there, I understand that jobs are thin on the ground, but...FUCK, most of these people aren't even trying.  Please note that this is anecdotal, of course, and based entirely on Tucson and Hamilton, Ontario...But still, WTF? 

Go forward half a generation, and you've got people who DO things.  LMNO, for example, works a full time job, has a steady home life, and makes music on the side.  Nigel runs her own business...Times ARE tough, and she's apparently having a hell of a time, but she's hanging on. 

By contrast, my cousin's 22 year old son is "taking a year off of college" - translation:  He flunked out - and is living at his dad's house.  No job, no ambition, nothing but Goddamn video games.

The only reason I give a shit is that these will be the "prime producers" when I'm retired, which means I'll starve to death in the cold along with them.

And there's always a fucking excuse.  With Mayhem, it was "mental illness" (translation:  She is a drone, and is too fucking lazy to shift her fat ass).  With Marcus, it was just out-and-out laziness.  Fucker has the mind of a 4 year old.  Many of the rest cite the economy, to which I respond by pointing at Nigel.  The majority, horrible as it seems, think this is how life is meant to be.

Christallfuckingmighty.  7 billion humans on the planet, and all anyone knows how to do is have more humans and sit on the fucking couch.

Words cannot express how much I hate you all.

Or Kill Me

[RANT]
I deal with these fucks all the time.  I work for a software company, and keep getting IT majors who went to school for software development because they wanted to design video games, did the bare minimum to get by in college and graduated after Mommy and Daddy supported them while they spent 8 years frat partying their way to a 4 year degree, and then they realize that video game design jobs aren't actually all that plentiful or easy to get when you have a 2.0 GPA.  So they apply for my company, they get a shot because they do have the required degree, and they come here expecting to do this job while stoned, hungover and fucking around on W.O.W. all day. They usually quit when they realize that there are actually some standards and requirements here.

I am almost 30, and DON'T have the required degree to work here.  I ran off from home at 17 and worked a job that most people consider lame and meaningless.  I stuck with it for a few years because I didn't have the education to do anything better and didn't have the means to fuck off and be a drone.  I got an entry level position with the software company that makes the software used in that lame job I worked at all those years, and my experience allowed me to work myself up to a point where I do the job that you're supposed to have an IT degree for and I make good money doing it.  Then these frat house drones come here and whine about how much harder 'work' is than college was for them and expect me to have some fucking sympathy!

Looking around at the people my age in the same industry as me I'm often tempted to feel like I'm some fucking genius but the truth is that I'm an average intelligence twenty something with no higher education who simply knew that I had to work to survive and work very well if I wanted to survive comfortably.  Ambition and any level of work ethic are so uncommon in twenty somethings that the fact that I possess some has propelled me to a career above my qualifications and a lifestyle that no one handed to me, I went out and fucking took it.

Would I have been a drone given the opportunity? I don't fucking know, it was never an option.  And my kid damn sure won't have the option either.[/RANT]
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 05:01:48 PM
Rant tags are unnecessary here, as ranting is the default behavior.   :lulz:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 06, 2011, 05:03:29 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Adios on May 06, 2011, 05:11:11 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 12:26:22 AM
Speaking as a freshly-minted 30-year-old . . . YEAH!!!

I can build a house (the wood part, not the electric part), hunt, butcher, make leather, plow, plant, harvest, raise critters, grow a garden . . . basically build a farm and live on it quite happily with lots of work and minimal fuss.



If I were 20 years younger and single..... :D
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Payne on May 06, 2011, 05:20:06 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 06, 2011, 08:05:27 AM
You, Payne Our Lord, are AWESOME.

No, Pixie is. I'm only awesome enough to recognise just how special she is.

~~~Payne: Would do anything for love, but I won't do even that.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 05:50:21 PM
Quote from: Charley Brown on May 06, 2011, 05:11:11 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 12:26:22 AM
Speaking as a freshly-minted 30-year-old . . . YEAH!!!

I can build a house (the wood part, not the electric part), hunt, butcher, make leather, plow, plant, harvest, raise critters, grow a garden . . . basically build a farm and live on it quite happily with lots of work and minimal fuss.



If I were 20 years younger and single..... :D

Aww shucks! :D
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 07:29:01 PM
Due to unpleasantness involving a horrible ex (boyfriend at the time), I moved out when I was 18. Original college plans fell through due to lack of funds among other things, but I still managed to get my Associates at least through a Community College while working part, then full-time (and both, and one point), have been keeping a roof over my head for the past 7.5 or so years, taught myself to cook, pay my bills on time, cook dinner almost every night and at least have a semi-"respectable" job as a legal assistant/semi-paralegal/office manager. I reconciled with my parents a little over  5 years ago once asshole was out of the picture and although they are always happy to help out, and I'm sure would let me move home if I needed, I am the primary caretaker of my life, financially and otherwise, and prefer it that way.

Out of our circle of friends that pretty much spans the entire 20-something range, my boyfriend and I are some of the only ones that actually have our own place and work full-time to maintain it. After that, it's probably about 50/50 between people actually out there trying to do something and those doing the bare minimum, if anything. A few we know have already bought houses (his cousin did at 22 working as an electrician). And then there's the kid that got fired and moved back home with his parents and his brother and brother's gf who don't work, don't clean, don't care, etc. And those in between going to school and working, seeming to try to do something, though still sometimes baffled when we can't come out because we have work early the next morning or cant' go to the bar because we have to pay rent and buy food - it's nice to not pay rent and have any other bills covered.

A lot of it is this sense of entitlement and I don't get where it comes from. Part of it I'm sure is the images projected on TV/movies/music, etc. A lot of it I'm sure is how kids were raised - my boyfriend's family struggled a bit when he was younger and he understands the value of money and needing to work to get by. My family was probably solidly "middle class" but were taught the value of a dollar (once I reached a certain age my mom had me help her balance the checkbook, see what bills were paid, etc.) and my parents are a bit older than others (my dad's almost 20 years older than my mom & like Vartox I have half-siblings are late 30's, early 40's) so maybe we were instilled with different values. I see 12 year olds and younger with fancy cell phones – I didn't get one until I got my license and a car, and even then it was a cheap prepaid one "for emergencies". No internet or camera or apps or god knows what else. WTF does a kid need a cell phone for?? (some exceptions noted)
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 07:33:33 PM
I'm beginning to see another common trend in the PD Discordians.

What's odd is that I started my 20's as a Trust Fund Baby.  I'm not sure what happened along the way.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:40:24 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 07:33:33 PM
I'm beginning to see another common trend in the PD Discordians.

What's odd is that I started my 20's as a Trust Fund Baby.  I'm not sure what happened along the way.

I started as the middle child of a moderately wealthy family, fucked up a bit, wandered into the military, and then sort of blundered my way into a rather satisfying and interesting life.  I have few regrets.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 07:43:38 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 07:33:33 PM
I'm beginning to see another common trend in the PD Discordians.

What's odd is that I started my 20's as a Trust Fund Baby.  I'm not sure what happened along the way.

I rather suspect that the majority of those who grew up all rainbows and fluffy puppies and haven't seen much else see no need for discord.  They like things the way they are.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jasper on May 06, 2011, 07:45:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

Self-serving bias, fundamental attribution error, blind spot bias.  The usual suspects.

Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 07:46:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?


"Everybody's trying not to be like everyone else... and I just don't want to be like that, you know?"
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Eater of Clowns on May 06, 2011, 07:56:04 PM
You're hitting a sensitive spot on a bunch of people at an age where they wonder if they'll ever reach their potential.  What's commonly referred to as a "mid-life crisis" actually tends to hit people twice in their lives, and guess when the first one usually comes along.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

If it helps, I think some of us are just like "WTF, it isn't -hard- to not suck. It just takes application and paying attention. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ALL THESE MORONS?"

I mean seriously. I am one of the laziest people I know and I have two jobs, several hobbies, two stable relationships . . . and don't live in my parents' fucking basement. O.o
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jasper on May 06, 2011, 07:59:24 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 06, 2011, 07:56:04 PM
You're hitting a sensitive spot on a bunch of people at an age where they wonder if they'll ever reach their potential.  What's commonly referred to as a "mid-life crisis" actually tends to hit people twice in their lives, and guess when the first one usually comes along.

It's not really a midlife crisis, it's a "not young enough to justify having fun all the time anymore" crisis.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:00:39 PM
Before that last post gets too TL;DR...

One glaring example that does irk me is a fairly good friend of mine and I'm not quite sure how to feel about it. 4 years younger than me and grew up in one of the richer towns in the area. Met her at my PT job while I was also working full time and became friends. Began to notice she would come in late, call out or just not show up, usually due to too much partying the night before. Not saying I never go overboard in having a good time, but I make sure I drag my pukey ass into work ON TIME every day and get my work done. I will never call out over a hangover - it's my stupid fault so I'm not using it as an excuse (speaking of which, dragged in yesterday for 9:00 after being up all night and part of the mornign and sleeping for about 2 hours.) I'd have to be deathly ill to even call out sick. She eventually lost that job and went through a series of part-time jobs after that.

"I don't like the people" "My boss expects me to do XYZ" "I don't want to deal with customers". I even got her a part-time job at my office doing filing when she was desperate for work. Apparently it was too much effort to match the name on the paper to the name on the file folder since she couldn't even get that right. And then she left because the job was "boring". Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were trying earn a living - I'm not sure how exciting you thought putting papers in a folder was going to be when I offered the job and while I may not be...what? Having water balloon fights and getting wasted at the office? It still puts a roof over my head and food on my plate. Fun is for between 5:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. Though FWIW I find my work interesting even if it's not an 8 hours party 5 days a week. Her attitude towards school was much the same way and she barely passed high school and after being SUPER MOTIVATED to go to school for massage therapy, quickly gave up when she realized you still had to do actual work.

On 2 or 3 separate occassions we took her in to live with us but that never lasted long because she couldn't hold down a job for more than a few months and/or most of what little money she earned went to clothes/pot/miscellaneous. You can't afford $50 a week? Really?!? When she turned 18 her parents wanted to kick her back out. "Why don't you go live with TP13 & boyfriend?" lolwhat? Because we're a homeless shelter. Of course the implications of her parents originally being ok with their 16 year old daughter living with essentially complete strangers aren't that great either. After the last time she lived with us and moved out again she actually got upset that we *gasp* rented the room out to someone else – you know, that was paying?

Eventually she got knocked up, kicked out of her parents', bounced from shelters and couches, continued to not make any effort to become employed. Received state assistance until she lost that for suspicion of drug use/activity. Dad moves to FL, and eventually asked her to move down there (he's sick, which is I believe why since he now has her caring for him), gave her his 3-bedroom house and bought himself a condo. She worked about 3 weeks then the place "closed down" and she hasn't bothered since as far as I can tell. All of it has been a pattern of expecting things to go how she wants and if they don't it's everyone else's fault and her situation is "different" and OMG the kid that she'd been talking about wanting since we met her at 16 is actually work to take care of and not just a playmate and new best friend.

Not that I want her to be suffering or homeless with a kid, but it all just reinforces the fact that the world should bend to her will and there are no responsibilities or consequences for your actions. I do wonder what will happen when her father is no longer around to support her, though I don't wish her any bad. I suppose it was just a thing of me expecting that after ONE of these major events in her life, there would be a wake-up call but so far apparently not. Even though I don't place a big emphasis on material things in my life, I suppose there is a bit of resentment in the fact that we work our asses off just to get by and at the age of 22 she still has no real sense of personal responsibility and is living by the beach in a huge home with a pool, etc. C'est la vie I suppose
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: hooplala on May 06, 2011, 08:00:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

This aspect of the thread was amusing me too.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:05:21 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 06, 2011, 07:56:04 PM
You're hitting a sensitive spot on a bunch of people at an age where they wonder if they'll ever reach their potential.  What's commonly referred to as a "mid-life crisis" actually tends to hit people twice in their lives, and guess when the first one usually comes along.

I think it is kinda this. Yea I know I jumped on the bandwagon of NOT ME! But although I'm living fairly comfortably and stable, I also have this nagging in the back of my head of WHAT NOW? Not in a I expect something to magically happen way, but in a "Is this what I'm going to do forever" thing? And "How will I make a 'real' living out of this" And "HOLY FUCK I thought I was doing good but people my age are buying houses and getting married and OH GOD 30 is getting closer"

Then combine that with the mixture of disgust and slight resentment over the people that "lalala party all day and rock all night" and "can't someone else do it" and "Where's MINE? Give me NOW (for free)!"

Ook ook.


Edit: (also I often don't feel knowledgable to comment on a lot of the issues discussed here, though I take great interest in reading them. So when I see something I can relate to AND coment on, I kinda indulge myself)
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:07:06 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:05:21 PM
And "HOLY FUCK I thought I was doing good but people my age are buying houses and getting married and OH GOD 30 is getting closer"

1.  On what kind of mortgages?  In a sinking market?   :lulz:

2.  Getting married for the sake of getting married is the 3rd dumbest thing you can do.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 08:10:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:07:06 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:05:21 PM
And "HOLY FUCK I thought I was doing good but people my age are buying houses and getting married and OH GOD 30 is getting closer"

1.  On what kind of mortgages?  In a sinking market?   :lulz:

2.  Getting married for the sake of getting married is the 3rd dumbest thing you can do.

What are the first 2 dumbest?

I can think of "have a kid to save a marriage," off the top of my head.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jasper on May 06, 2011, 08:12:31 PM
I'm pretty sure one of them is PMing the Mgt.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 08:13:14 PM
Starting a land war in Asia?
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:13:29 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 06, 2011, 08:10:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:07:06 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:05:21 PM
And "HOLY FUCK I thought I was doing good but people my age are buying houses and getting married and OH GOD 30 is getting closer"

1.  On what kind of mortgages?  In a sinking market?   :lulz:

2.  Getting married for the sake of getting married is the 3rd dumbest thing you can do.

What are the first 2 dumbest?

I can think of "have a kid to save a marriage," off the top of my head.

That's #5.

1.  PM The Mgt, and

2.  Find a "cause", and evangelize to everyone you know.

#4 is a group of behaviors, ranging from tugging on Superman's cape, spitting into the wind, tearing the mask off the ole Lone Ranger, and messing around with some guy named Jim.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:17:47 PM
This thread is awesome, if for no other reason than it really highlights what I think might be a serious economic issue for our society later on down the pike, moreso than it is today, even.

It's also awesome, in a one step further in the meta-meta-meta I sometimes engage in, in that it didn't blow up at all into a buncha drama like this place sometimes seems to go to instead of well-thought-out posts on wtf is up.

My immediate thoughts upon reading the OP were 1) who raised these guys?  huh? think about that one and 2) people don't usually see themselves in the light that was cast on them in the OP...if they did, their little egos would probably fashion something other than what they are now doing (wasting (imho) what little life they have on this planet before they go POOF!).

The fact that so many posters ITT are trying hard to say "that's NOT me" is two-fold--Roger called out specific people that, to him, are the antithesis of the OP (for good reason), so this is like indirectly calling on people to kind of self-evaluate and see if they measure up to that standard.  Comparison was inevitable.  Also, yes, it's natural to want to be the opposite of the thing that's publicly reviled (and, again, rightly so).

I think the calibre of poster here (which we talk about often) is evident in a thread like this one.  (Incidentally, and off-topic, while proof-reading a colleague's resume today, I noticed my standards of the written language and what's considered "professional writing" have really skyrocketed since coming here.  I read her shit and thought, Damn, woman, you TEACH for a living?  Jesus.  Anyway, I digress...)  Folks have been TRYING to keep a lid on the fail, and even if they fail at THAT, they don't give up.  And if they do give up, they go away.  And if they are here, they seem to be TRYING nonstop and give evidence of it.  It's awesome.

So while we are a group of fighters, it seems we don't just fight each other, we fight to win.  No matter where we are.

I should kick down my own history of win, at some point, but I think y'all know me well enough to know I HAVE a history.  Of win.  Or at least of Fight.  :lol:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:20:31 PM
...sorry that was totally TL;DR.  Shoulda broken it up a bit.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Succulent Plant on May 06, 2011, 08:20:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

Perhaps jealousy over never experiencing the non-responsibility of droneism for some...  :lulz: 
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:33:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:07:06 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:05:21 PM
And "HOLY FUCK I thought I was doing good but people my age are buying houses and getting married and OH GOD 30 is getting closer"

1.  On what kind of mortgages?  In a sinking market?   :lulz:

2.  Getting married for the sake of getting married is the 3rd dumbest thing you can do.

That's the thing of it too...

1.   Yea, exactly, not something that we need. And while it would be kind of nice to *own* (theoretically speaking since the bank's gonna be owning these people's houses for however long) what we're paying in for, we also have our utilities paid for (excluding luxuries like cable & internet), maintenance covered, no taxes and no mortgage. And not necessarily being tied down to this area.

2.   Also agreed. We've been together almost six years, living together 5.5 out of that without killing each other so far. We've talked about marriage maybe eventually, but we've got a good thing going, so why ruin it. One of my younger sister's friends is getting married this summer – both still live at home, part time jobs, in school. I mean no offense, but really?

So, I guess it is kind of stupid/silly to...be affected by(?) these things since it's not even things we necessarily want. Maybe some of that conditioning of "what you're supposed to do to be an adult™". I guess just even though we don't want a house, white picket fence and 2.5 kids, etc. we're in somewhat of a turmoil between just going with it and what do we want to do/can we do(anything you set your mind to!)/should we be doing
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:33:26 PM
So, I guess it is kind of stupid/silly to...be affected by(?) these things since it's not even things we necessarily want. Maybe some of that conditioning of "what you're supposed to do to be an adult™". I guess just even though we don't want a house, white picket fence and 2.5 kids, etc. we're in somewhat of a turmoil between just going with it and what do we want to do/can we do(anything you set your mind to!)/should we be doing


That's the sale of the American Nightmare™, that is.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 08:36:29 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:33:26 PM
One of my younger sister's friends is getting married this summer – both still live at home, part time jobs, in school. I mean no offense, but really?

Fucking hell.

Life lesson, never, EVER marry anybody who hasn't had to sweat paying rent.  If they can't exist as a functioning human under their own power, you're going to be carrying their sorry ass either for the rest of his or her life, or until you get tired of the load and chuck it to the curb.

And if you've never sweated paying rent, get out there and figure out how to get by on your own BEFORE you pick somebody else to lean on.  Some day you might HAVE to do it alone, and you're gonna be in piss poor shape if you haven't learned the skills.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Plus, as you've said TGRR, you don't want to be the 40-year-old at the club.


Well, I do, but that's because I have the wrong values.  






Plus I have a lot of clubs populated by my peer/age group.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Plus I have a lot of clubs populated by my peer/age group.

That's different.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Payne on May 06, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

I dunno, I was thinking more from the point of view that I'm still on the edge of being a drone. I really do have to just keep throwing myself forward for fear of stopping or even sinking.

But then again, how you describe it works too for what I wrote.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: Payne on May 06, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

I dunno, I was thinking more from the point of view that I'm still on the edge of being a drone. I really do have to just keep throwing myself forward for fear of stopping or even sinking.

But then again, how you describe it works too for what I wrote.

You also have Pix behind you with a baseball bat.  No worries.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Plus, as you've said TGRR, you don't want to be the 40-year-old at the club.


Well, I do, but that's because I have the wrong values. 






Plus I have a lot of clubs populated by my peer/age group.

Once I lose all my weight, I'm going to find a fucking club like that, because, and I don't care if this cougars me out, I LOVE to dance.  I fucking LOVE to dance.  And clubs are about the only way I can do this without feeling foolish.  So I'd love to find those 40-and-over places without looking fucking ridiculoso and go for it.

Once I lose all my weight.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Payne on May 06, 2011, 08:47:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: Payne on May 06, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

I dunno, I was thinking more from the point of view that I'm still on the edge of being a drone. I really do have to just keep throwing myself forward for fear of stopping or even sinking.

But then again, how you describe it works too for what I wrote.

You also have Pix behind you with a baseball bat.  No worries.

:)
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:49:00 PM
@trippin: WAIT!  I thought you broke up with that dude...did I miss something?  :?
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Plus, as you've said TGRR, you don't want to be the 40-year-old at the club.


Well, I do, but that's because I have the wrong values. 

Plus I have a lot of clubs populated by my peer/age group.

Once I lose all my weight, I'm going to find a fucking club like that, because, and I don't care if this cougars me out, I LOVE to dance.  I fucking LOVE to dance.  And clubs are about the only way I can do this without feeling foolish.  So I'd love to find those 40-and-over places without looking fucking ridiculoso and go for it.

Once I lose all my weight.

Look for the gay nights, but make sure they're not aimed at twinks.  Early 80's nights should work, too.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:51:32 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Plus, as you've said TGRR, you don't want to be the 40-year-old at the club.


Well, I do, but that's because I have the wrong values. 






Plus I have a lot of clubs populated by my peer/age group.

Once I lose all my weight, I'm going to find a fucking club like that, because, and I don't care if this cougars me out, I LOVE to dance.  I fucking LOVE to dance.  And clubs are about the only way I can do this without feeling foolish.  So I'd love to find those 40-and-over places without looking fucking ridiculoso and go for it.

Once I lose all my weight.

Um, that IS a way to lose weight.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 08:51:48 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:47:25 PM
Once I lose all my weight.

Fuck that, Jenne.

If you LOVE to dance, go DANCE.

Life's to short for "once I..." bullshit.  Do what you love, to hell with what other people think.

I was gonna wait until I lost the weight I want off to start fencing again...  Glad I didn't, on multiple levels.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:52:10 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Plus, as you've said TGRR, you don't want to be the 40-year-old at the club.


Well, I do, but that's because I have the wrong values. 

Plus I have a lot of clubs populated by my peer/age group.

Once I lose all my weight, I'm going to find a fucking club like that, because, and I don't care if this cougars me out, I LOVE to dance.  I fucking LOVE to dance.  And clubs are about the only way I can do this without feeling foolish.  So I'd love to find those 40-and-over places without looking fucking ridiculoso and go for it.

Once I lose all my weight.

Look for the gay nights, but make sure they're not aimed at twinks.  Early 80's nights should work, too.

Gay clubs in general are NOT hard to find (Hillcrest, YO!), and I just need a night that yeah I can handle the music.  Though I can pretty much dance to anything, if I've the notion.  Oh and I need someone to go with, too.  My "usual" dance partner is postpartum...she can't go yet.  :(

I also need to steer clear from the 40's+-and-single scene because those scenes creep me the fuck out.  Gah.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:53:20 PM
OK OK, yes, true enough.  I have an ego, too, DAMMIT.  :lol:  But you're right.  I'm a skinny girl in a fat chick's body.  I need to just get the fuck over it.

/done with my emo threadjack, sorry.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:54:34 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:53:20 PM
OK OK, yes, true enough.  I have an ego, too, DAMMIT.  :lol:  But you're right.  I'm a skinny girl in a fat chick's body.  I need to just get the fuck over it.

/done with my emo threadjack, sorry.

The most interesting people I know are comfortable in their own skin.  If you're not happy with your appearance, change it...But don't let it stop you from having fun.

Dance.  What the fuck do you care what anyone thinks?
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 08:54:51 PM
A good disco night should work.  Also, there seems to be a resurgence of early 90's RnB nights around here. A little Whitney, Lisa Stansfield, or Tony! Toni! Toné!, anyone?
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 08:56:25 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:53:20 PM
OK OK, yes, true enough.  I have an ego, too, DAMMIT.  :lol:  But you're right.  I'm a skinny girl in a fat chick's body.  I need to just get the fuck over it.

/done with my emo threadjack, sorry.

Trust me, I'm hauling a few more pounds than I want to be... but I'm done letting ANYTHING stop me from doing stuff I want to do.  I may occasionally wind up kneeling on the floor trying to catch my breath (the asthma doesn't help, and the air in the place we fight doesn't MOVE), I may take a couple extra breaks...  I may not be as fast on my feet as some (or most) of the guys...  But I am enjoying myself.

That's what counts.

Go.  Dance.   :)
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Don Coyote on May 06, 2011, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

I almost made a rant about how I am drone..... :lulz:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Don Coyote on May 06, 2011, 09:37:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 08:54:34 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:53:20 PM
OK OK, yes, true enough.  I have an ego, too, DAMMIT.  :lol:  But you're right.  I'm a skinny girl in a fat chick's body.  I need to just get the fuck over it.

/done with my emo threadjack, sorry.

The most interesting people I know are comfortable in their own skin.  If you're not happy with your appearance, change it...But don't let it stop you from having fun.

Dance.  What the fuck do you care what anyone thinks?

SLACK FOR THE SLACK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: President Television on May 06, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
I think I'm a drone.  :x
Though the reason I'm not paying rent is that my stepfather keeps mooching off me.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2011, 10:20:01 PM
Being the banker to my friends and family is pretty much the only reason I don't have to pay the extortionate rent prices around here.  I mean, seriously, £400 a month for a 2 bedroom flat? In this semi-agrarian shithole?  For £500 a month I could, with three other people, rent a four bedroom house, in central London.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Sita on May 06, 2011, 10:22:41 PM
Quote from: Luna on May 06, 2011, 08:36:29 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 06, 2011, 08:33:26 PM
One of my younger sister's friends is getting married this summer – both still live at home, part time jobs, in school. I mean no offense, but really?

Fucking hell.

Life lesson, never, EVER marry anybody who hasn't had to sweat paying rent.  If they can't exist as a functioning human under their own power, you're going to be carrying their sorry ass either for the rest of his or her life, or until you get tired of the load and chuck it to the curb.

And if you've never sweated paying rent, get out there and figure out how to get by on your own BEFORE you pick somebody else to lean on.  Some day you might HAVE to do it alone, and you're gonna be in piss poor shape if you haven't learned the skills.

Oh if only someone had told me that when I was younger. I went straight from home to marriage. I had about 6 months experience working doing dishes before I got pregnant and had to stop.

Now I'm 30 with no work experience (because, seriously, doing dishes is something anyone can do) and hoping that something doesn't happen to hubby that he isn't able to work. It seems that no one wants to hire a 30 year old woman whose been a stay at home mom for the past 9 years.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cain on May 06, 2011, 10:29:28 PM
Do some kind of volunteer work, if you want experience.  Most such groups wont turn people away, and you can get some kind of resume which proves you know more than how to wash dishes.

If there are any such places nearby, naturally.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 06, 2011, 11:47:55 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 06, 2011, 10:29:28 PM
Do some kind of volunteer work, if you want experience.  Most such groups wont turn people away, and you can get some kind of resume which proves you know more than how to wash dishes.

If there are any such places nearby, naturally.

This.  It's better than nothing, honestly.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 11:49:34 PM
What Cain said. Volunteer, freelance, take online classes. Build up experience. Or you might find that volunteering is more worthwhile, and you can start working there.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: LMNO on May 06, 2011, 11:57:56 PM
Also, full disclosure: I started working for THE MAN by temping a courier job, hauling documents back n forth. When I was 32. I transferred to document processing, and just kept proving how competent I was.

Keep in mind, all jobs I had before that had NO resume boosting experience.

So, there's always a shot.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Triple Zero on May 07, 2011, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 06, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

I dunno, I was thinking more from the point of view that I'm still on the edge of being a drone. I really do have to just keep throwing myself forward for fear of stopping or even sinking.

This. It's something I worry about quite often. I am fully aware that (living in the Netherlands, growing up in a family that's doing pretty well) I'm in a fucking lucky position. And I can't really say I'm not a "drone" (or risk becoming one) until I actually accomplish some shit to balance out that lucky head-start. Currently all I have is that realization, and the desire.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 07, 2011, 12:17:32 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 07, 2011, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 06, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

I dunno, I was thinking more from the point of view that I'm still on the edge of being a drone. I really do have to just keep throwing myself forward for fear of stopping or even sinking.

This. It's something I worry about quite often. I am fully aware that (living in the Netherlands, growing up in a family that's doing pretty well) I'm in a fucking lucky position. And I can't really say I'm not a "drone" (or risk becoming one) until I actually accomplish some shit to balance out that lucky head-start. Currently all I have is that realization, and the desire.

Well, are you doing SOMETHING with your life?  School?  Work?  Anything other than sitting on your ass all day playing video games?
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Adios on May 07, 2011, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 07, 2011, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 06, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

So, it goes from "Tucson and Hamilton have this problem, and it can be inferred that it exists elsewhere" to "I had to walk 40 miles to work as a jackhammer bit in the salt mines, uphill both ways in a snowstorm, to pay for my degree, and I spent 10 years living in a paper bag in the gutter, but through grit and determination, I have accidentally the Horatio Alger."

I wonder what part of the human psyche drives that?

I dunno, I was thinking more from the point of view that I'm still on the edge of being a drone. I really do have to just keep throwing myself forward for fear of stopping or even sinking.

This. It's something I worry about quite often. I am fully aware that (living in the Netherlands, growing up in a family that's doing pretty well) I'm in a fucking lucky position. And I can't really say I'm not a "drone" (or risk becoming one) until I actually accomplish some shit to balance out that lucky head-start. Currently all I have is that realization, and the desire.

Hell, all you have to do is participate in life.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jasper on May 07, 2011, 12:28:59 AM
The AI in video games was too good, so I quit in favor of real life.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 07, 2011, 12:29:56 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
The current songs of Lady GaGa... Katy Perry... et al... are NOT helping in this matter.

I'm not sure I'm hearing what you're hearing in Lady GaGa. Every song and video of hers I've seen is a commentary on something massively fucked-up. Even Boys Boys Boys.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 07, 2011, 12:38:58 AM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 06, 2011, 08:36:33 PM
Plus, as you've said TGRR, you don't want to be the 40-year-old at the club.


Well, I do, but that's because I have the wrong values. 






Plus I have a lot of clubs populated by my peer/age group.

Once I lose all my weight, I'm going to find a fucking club like that, because, and I don't care if this cougars me out, I LOVE to dance.  I fucking LOVE to dance.  And clubs are about the only way I can do this without feeling foolish.  So I'd love to find those 40-and-over places without looking fucking ridiculoso and go for it.

Once I lose all my weight.

Dancing is a GREAT way to lose weight. :) Plus you'll look hot shakin' it on the dance floor.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jenne on May 07, 2011, 12:43:59 AM
Thanks, Guys, for the confidence--I need to find someone to go with, I guess. 

And Sita, volunteer in your son's PTA.  And I'd be willing to bet THAT networking will get you a job.  Because anymore, it's not who you are and what you do but who you know.  Getting a job seems easier and more likely if you are familiar with those offering it to you.  People like hiring known entities these days.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 07, 2011, 12:49:58 AM
Quote from: Cain on May 06, 2011, 10:29:28 PM
Do some kind of volunteer work, if you want experience.  Most such groups wont turn people away, and you can get some kind of resume which proves you know more than how to wash dishes.

If there are any such places nearby, naturally.

This! And if you work hard as a volunteer for six months or so, they also serve as a reference.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Triple Zero on May 07, 2011, 12:52:47 AM
Quote from: Luna on May 07, 2011, 12:17:32 AM
Well, are you doing SOMETHING with your life?  School?  Work?  Anything other than sitting on your ass all day playing video games?

Well, I don't play video games. School: I got a bachelor's degree in Computational Science. Then, I got completely stuck in my Master's. Probably should have stopped sooner, but I didn't realize something was wrong. Stupid, because the fact that every trimester, with 100% motivation "this time I'll pull through", I only passed half the courses--It wasn't the level, I was just as smart as my peers, I just didn't have the energy*  to do all of them in that time. Anyway at some point my student funding ran out. I got a job at an IT company, only 16 hours a week cause I needed to finish my Masters, right? Only thing left was my final research thesis thing. But it didn't quite work out like that. Those 16 hours turned out to completely exhaust me for the rest of the week, unable to even do household tasks. Within two months I got panic attacks and burned out. I was a wreck. I've been working to recover from that ever since. In the mean time I did a few freelance webdesign jobs (which took me way too long) and started at another IT webdesign company, slowly, first 6h a week, then 12, then 18--more panic attacks, that was too much. I'm working on myself, therapy (again, fucking lucky to live in a socialist country), some worked better than other, the last one really helps, it actually changes me and I believe I could easily do the 18h now. Right now, I just started doing volunteer work, though. I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to do next, our socialism comes with a fuckload of bureaucracy and if I'd take a job right now, they'll assume I'm just fine and take away the safety net. And maybe I'm up for that, but maybe I'll crash down again and then I'm fucked (read:family to the rescue). So, right now, volunteer work it is, cause otherwise, yeah I'd be sitting on my ass. See my thread in High Weirdness for what I'm doing currently.

(*or something like that, it's a lot like Nigel's "sitting on a chair" example in the Madness thread, that description really resonated)

Sorry for the TMI, but that's my life right now. I think I'll be fine, because many many years ago, when I was 20, I got the slight feeling something was Wrong (but I didn't take it serious enough), however I vowed to myself I'd keep looking and never EVER give up until I fix it, somehow. A drone wouldn't do that, right? So yeah, even if I'm being a leech on society right now, at least I'll have that.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 07, 2011, 12:55:42 AM
Nah, Trip.

You may currently be a drain, but volunteer work is important, SOMEBODY has to do it...  And you're working on fixing your shit.

If my humble opinion matters at all, I call "Not Drone."
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 07, 2011, 01:11:00 AM
Quote from: Luna on May 07, 2011, 12:55:42 AM
Nah, Trip.

You may currently be a drain, but volunteer work is important, SOMEBODY has to do it...  And you're working on fixing your shit.

If my humble opinion matters at all, I call "Not Drone."

Volunteer work is extremely important, and I really respect people who do it in between jobs to avoid stagnating or feeling like a drain on society. Because, when you're volunteering, you may not be getting paid directly for your contributions, but you're contributing directly. Plus, again, keeps you out of that chair, and it looks great on a resume.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Triple Zero on May 07, 2011, 01:21:35 AM
Yeah. Although, see my thread in High Weirdness. It's not exactly the most humanitarian helping-people-out kind of stuff. I also looked into that, this one organisation, called Humanitas, is seriously awesome in what they do, but their regular-hours stuff is really heavy. I don't think it would be wise for me to become a "buddy" for a terminally ill person, or a disabled person. But it's so damn beautiful work, so maybe I'm going to see again if there's maybe something I can do anyway. They also have one-off jobs. Because working at this online fringe magazine thing is hella fun (and I'm going to continue doing that), I don't really feel it's much for the benefit of society.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 07, 2011, 01:23:37 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 07, 2011, 01:21:35 AM
Yeah. Although, see my thread in High Weirdness. It's not exactly the most humanitarian helping-people-out kind of stuff. I also looked into that, this one organisation, called Humanitas, is seriously awesome in what they do, but their regular-hours stuff is really heavy. I don't think it would be wise for me to become a "buddy" for a terminally ill person, or a disabled person. But it's so damn beautiful work, so maybe I'm going to see again if there's maybe something I can do anyway. They also have one-off jobs. Because working at this online fringe magazine thing is hella fun (and I'm going to continue doing that), I don't really feel it's much for the benefit of society.

Check again, they could have office work that needs doing, that kind of thing.

The magazine sounds like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Golden Applesauce on May 07, 2011, 01:32:04 AM
Turning 21 next month, just took my last final for my BS.  If I don't find a job by early June, I'm taking a year to go teach English in Korea.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Jasper on May 07, 2011, 01:47:36 AM
South Korea has a pretty long work week, I've heard.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 07, 2011, 01:56:35 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on May 07, 2011, 01:32:04 AM
Turning 21 next month, just took my last final for my BS.  If I don't find a job by early June, I'm taking a year to go teach English in Korea.

Congrats, and good to hear you've got a plan!
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Kai on May 07, 2011, 03:30:09 AM
I'll have my degree in hand one week from today. After that it's on to a museum internship, then a PhD. Then an actual JOB at a museum, so help me. I WILL have it.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Luna on May 07, 2011, 03:36:22 AM
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on May 07, 2011, 03:30:09 AM
I'll have my degree in hand one week from today. After that it's on to a museum internship, then a PhD. Then an actual JOB at a museum, so help me. I WILL have it.

Awesome!
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Kai on May 07, 2011, 03:56:23 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 06, 2011, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
What's really interesting is how many people feel the need to point out that THEY aren't drones, when nobody here would assume they are.

If it helps, I think some of us are just like "WTF, it isn't -hard- to not suck. It just takes application and paying attention. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ALL THESE MORONS?"

I mean seriously. I am one of the laziest people I know and I have two jobs, several hobbies, two stable relationships . . . and don't live in my parents' fucking basement. O.o

Most of what makes you think that is a combination of impostor syndrome and dunning-kruger effect.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cain on May 07, 2011, 10:43:33 AM
Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with playing video games per se.  As we speak, I am reinstalling a set of old games because some programmers and writers (including myself) got together and customized the shit out of it, turning what was already a highly rated trilogy into one of the best stories of the last decade.

The problem is playing boring video games which do nothing but test your fingers and reflexes, all the time.  Like I say, some of the best pieces of fiction out there today will be found in the video game industry, because no-one else outside of certain publishers (and look how long it took some top rated writers to get published, as compared to Stephanie Myers).  I mean, Hollywood is in a shitter right now, and the TV industry isn't much better.

I think what it is down to is people lack a certain amount of discernment and willingness to go after highly quality entertainment.  They settle.  And the problem is, when you become willing to watch or read or play any kind of old crap, crap is pretty much what you are going to get.  And garbage in, garbage out.  People form their impressions of the world through narratives, which are often created through the stories they watch.  If they watch lazy, badly written stories about people who, through luck and inherent decency, get everything they deserve, they think the world is going to work out that way (this is "The Logical Fallacy of Generalization from Fictional Evidence (http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generalization_from/)", writ large).  You get stories about useless lumps of girls with no skills or desires who whine endlessly, who nevertheless end up becoming immortal ubermenschen with superpowers, or about not especially bright boys who are mistreated by their family and then discover they are The Chosen One, but have most of the work done for them by adults providing an endless amount of deus ex machina, and those kind of things bleed through into the general culture in the same way The Song of Roland inspired generations of idiots to seek a glorious death at the hands of Muslims while dressed in a tin-can and riding a horse.

I'm pretty careful about what I let occupy my headspace, as a consequence of this.  That's not to say the occasional idiotic entertainment isn't sometimes fun (especially in a So Bad Its Good kind of way), but it should be treated as the mental equivalent of junk food - it shouldn't form the basis of any sensible diet.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Payne on May 07, 2011, 10:51:23 AM
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2011, 10:43:33 AM
Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with playing video games per se.  As we speak, I am reinstalling a set of old games because some programmers and writers (including myself) got together and customized the shit out of it, turning what was already a highly rated trilogy into one of the best stories of the last decade.

The problem is playing boring video games which do nothing but test your fingers and reflexes, all the time.  Like I say, some of the best pieces of fiction out there today will be found in the video game industry, because no-one else outside of certain publishers (and look how long it took some top rated writers to get published, as compared to Stephanie Myers).  I mean, Hollywood is in a shitter right now, and the TV industry isn't much better.

I think what it is down to is people lack a certain amount of discernment and willingness to go after highly quality entertainment.  They settle.  And the problem is, when you become willing to watch or read or play any kind of old crap, crap is pretty much what you are going to get.  And garbage in, garbage out.  People form their impressions of the world through narratives, which are often created through the stories they watch.  If they watch lazy, badly written stories about people who, through luck and inherent decency, get everything they deserve, they think the world is going to work out that way (this is "The Logical Fallacy of Generalization from Fictional Evidence (http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generalization_from/)", writ large).  You get stories about useless lumps of girls with no skills or desires who whine endlessly, who nevertheless end up becoming immortal ubermenschen with superpowers, or about not especially bright boys who are mistreated by their family and then discover they are The Chosen One, but have most of the work done for them by adults providing an endless amount of deus ex machina, and those kind of things bleed through into the general culture in the same way The Song of Roland inspired generations of idiots to seek a glorious death at the hands of Muslims while dressed in a tin-can and riding a horse.

I'm pretty careful about what I let occupy my headspace, as a consequence of this.  That's not to say the occasional idiotic entertainment isn't sometimes fun (especially in a So Bad Its Good kind of way), but it should be treated as the mental equivalent of junk food - it shouldn't form the basis of any sensible diet.

^VICTORY.

And something I sometimes fail to think about, though thankfully my entertainments are usually not too bad so it doesn't often matter.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cain on May 07, 2011, 10:52:41 AM
Also, installing video games in a foreign language is a great way to further your knowledge, if you already have the basics down.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Payne on May 07, 2011, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2011, 10:52:41 AM
Also, installing video games in a foreign language is a great way to further your knowledge, if you already have the basics down.

I never thought of that.

I think Medieval Total War just got a reprieve.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Cain on May 07, 2011, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: Payne on May 07, 2011, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2011, 10:52:41 AM
Also, installing video games in a foreign language is a great way to further your knowledge, if you already have the basics down.

I never thought of that.

I think Medieval Total War just got a reprieve.

I had a friend who did just that for when he went to France for the summer.  Unfortunately, because of the nature of the game he chose, his vocabulary concerning medieval weaponry and armour was suspiciously good, but he found it also worked really well because there were plenty of general conversations in the game also.

Also I think based on what you have been learning about for the past few months, you have little reason to worry about your entertainment inputs. 
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Triple Zero on May 07, 2011, 11:09:21 AM
Hmmmmmmmm. I do like to watch stupid sitcoms and TV series. Even though I know they're totally unrealistic, it's easy to let your guard down.

It's always interesting to change up habits and see what happens, I'm going to cut down on those and/or switch them up with some documentary type stuff I still should watch (thinking of a well acclaimed Dutch series about the history of Europe--and my knowledge of any kind of history is terrible).

Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Kai on May 07, 2011, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2011, 10:43:33 AM
Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with playing video games per se.  As we speak, I am reinstalling a set of old games because some programmers and writers (including myself) got together and customized the shit out of it, turning what was already a highly rated trilogy into one of the best stories of the last decade.

The problem is playing boring video games which do nothing but test your fingers and reflexes, all the time.  Like I say, some of the best pieces of fiction out there today will be found in the video game industry, because no-one else outside of certain publishers (and look how long it took some top rated writers to get published, as compared to Stephanie Myers).  I mean, Hollywood is in a shitter right now, and the TV industry isn't much better.

I think what it is down to is people lack a certain amount of discernment and willingness to go after highly quality entertainment.  They settle.  And the problem is, when you become willing to watch or read or play any kind of old crap, crap is pretty much what you are going to get.  And garbage in, garbage out.  People form their impressions of the world through narratives, which are often created through the stories they watch.  If they watch lazy, badly written stories about people who, through luck and inherent decency, get everything they deserve, they think the world is going to work out that way (this is "The Logical Fallacy of Generalization from Fictional Evidence (http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generalization_from/)", writ large).  You get stories about useless lumps of girls with no skills or desires who whine endlessly, who nevertheless end up becoming immortal ubermenschen with superpowers, or about not especially bright boys who are mistreated by their family and then discover they are The Chosen One, but have most of the work done for them by adults providing an endless amount of deus ex machina, and those kind of things bleed through into the general culture in the same way The Song of Roland inspired generations of idiots to seek a glorious death at the hands of Muslims while dressed in a tin-can and riding a horse.

I'm pretty careful about what I let occupy my headspace, as a consequence of this.  That's not to say the occasional idiotic entertainment isn't sometimes fun (especially in a So Bad Its Good kind of way), but it should be treated as the mental equivalent of junk food - it shouldn't form the basis of any sensible diet.

I agree with what you've said, but I'm trying to figure out what trillogy you're talking about. Elder Scrolls? Halo? Assassins' Creed? No, those are all too recent. Please tell me of this story.

Edit: Ah, Baldur's Gate Trilogy.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Requia ☣ on May 07, 2011, 05:16:05 PM
We never learned to fail.

In school, in video games, in everything we grew up with effectively the only way to fuck up was not to put in the work.  Schools are too damned easy, and even a hard video game gets easy when you've played it for a while (and frankly, they make less and less hard games these days, even the multiplayer games let you rank up without actually winning any fights now that I think about it).

But while hard work is a key to success, it doesn't do a damned thing to keep you from failing once you're out of high school.  You're going to come up against college course that are actually hard and that you can't pass just by adding a couple hours of studying, you're going to get laid off even though you did everything right at work, you're going to fuck up.  And once you've failed (or especially, the third time you've failed) after all that hard work didn't pay off, and nobody can point you at what you should do next anymore, it is damned easy to stop trying.

I remember some old platitude about a horse.

Thankyou for asking this question Roger, I'm going to go pick my ass back up, however many times it takes.
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on May 09, 2011, 03:29:55 PM
Quote from: Jenne on May 06, 2011, 08:49:00 PM
@trippin: WAIT!  I thought you broke up with that dude...did I miss something?  :?

Just looked back at what I wrote and I did word it a bit funny....but, oh yea, that asshole (that caused the problems with my parents/my life/me) is LONG gone. Still rewiring some of the residual kinks (not like that) leftover from dealing with it all but things are looking up. Been with an awesome, supportive guy for almost 6 years now. He's the one that encouraged me to reconnect with my family and while there have been a few bumps along the way (I think may have posted here freaking out after probably the one big fight we have had), things are going good  :)


The way I wrote things started with my circustances with him and getting out on my own, but wrapped up with my current situation. I can see how the lines kind of blurred though since I was trying to write everything without going on forever (which I did anyway, heh) so it didn't make things very clear.  :oops:
Title: Re: What is it with all the 20-something drones?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on May 12, 2011, 04:33:31 PM
On the flip side... I don't think the traditional American career/work/life balance is all that healthy for anyone. If a generation of drones is what it takes to force corporations to change, then maybe its not so bad.

Here's an email I got today from one of our conference partners:


How to Engage and Motivate What's in It for Me Generation



Like it or not, the youngest generation is changing the workplace - even if makes you feel like you're in need of a cultural overhaul!

Sometimes they'll drive you crazy with their need for self-fulfillment, entitlement, conflicts with your dress code or meaningless fashion statements, and demand for constant feedback and attention.

Learning Objectives:

By attending this training session on working with the younger generation, you will learn how to:

* Speak their language - while adapting your communication style without pampering
* Deal with employees who don't want to pay their dues
* Be aware of itchy feet and their need to leave your for greener pastures
* Manage employees with a need to self-manager without turning them off
* Make their work environment welcoming and fun
* Prevent the generation gap from ruining your career if you don't know how to lead the "Me Generation"
* Apply management training and business etiquette programs to groom future leaders and get younger workers ready to represent your organization with the professionalism that you need
* Manage an employee who has hit the glass ceiling when it comes to raises and promotions
* Look past and accept the differences between Generation Y and the rest of your workforce population