Plus, I Got Religion

[P3nT4gR4m]

I disagree with the claim that this board swinging towards the militant atheist side. I think it was actually a bit more hardlined-materialist  when I joined. I think the tone has gotten more permissive since then. I recall wanting to learn more about Kaballah, and mangrove sending me a lot of info via PM which he didn't want to post on the board. He feared he'd have to deal with justifying everything to everyone, and thereby becoming the personal proxy for any vitriol towards Kaballah. Come to think of it, I've had a number of good religious discussions via PM to avoid the cacophony of the board at large.

Which, in a way, is a good thing.

I mean, if there was something I cared about, and wanted to discuss in a serious, personal way, I'm not sure I would post it on any public forum, much less PD.com.  I would find like-minded people and PM, email, or personal chat.  It's too easy to have a conversation derailed.

Specialist boards are better for specialist interests anyroad. I don't talk much about gran turismo games here, got I got gt planet for that shit. This board is harder to nail down but there is a sorta implicit list of shit that doesn't belong here. You want to test the waters? Fine, post about it and see if it gets you flamed 

[Tempest Virago]

As an atheist, I think it's actually pretty fair to say that my disbelief in God/gods/higher powers is based on faith. If it was purely reason, you're probably right that I'd be an agnostic. However, I am no more capable of believing that it is possible there is a God, then religious people are capable of not believing in God, and I find it kind of offensive to be told that I'm only an atheist to piss off theists. I've tried multiple times to believe in some sort of higher power, but I just can't.

I call myself an atheist simply because that is the most accurate term for my beliefs.I have no interest in pissing off theists, and will even talk to evangelical Christians on the street if they're polite and I'm not doing anything at the time. I've also gone to a Sikh temple, and enjoyed myself.

In fact, I actually find theists' beliefs fascinating and like discussing it with them, which I hopefully do not do in a condescending way. I agree with what Ratatosk said, though, about finding people's personal experiences more interesting/valid than just them repeating what somebody else told them.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Thanks Jim.

Specialist boards are better for specialist interests anyroad. I don't talk much about gran turismo games here, got I got gt planet for that shit. This board is harder to nail down but there is a sorta implicit list of shit that doesn't belong here. You want to test the waters? Fine, post about it and see if it gets you flamed 

Pent, not to put too fine a point on it, but this is a special interest board for a religion. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I just don't feel the need to discuss my spirituality publicly.

And if something came over me to do so on a board full of asshats it would be ridiculous to think that they would suddenly take their hat off and hold their bowels.



If one doesn't like something made with intent then it's called propaganda, evangelism, or artless.

If one does like something made with intent then it's called information, education, or art.

Sure.  I mean, if words don't mean anything.

People mean things. Words are arbitrary symbols of sounds.

    I disagree. Tha last thing which words, symbols or sounds may be is, arbitrary.

Capitalist narrative, feminism and objectivism
John la Fournier
Department of Gender Politics, University of California, Berkeley
1. Realities of rubicon

Hey there. I'll buy the books if I want to read that. Your attempts to imitate a dark ages monk, copying scripture to ward off the darkness, are lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame.

I spent years in a sweaty dungeon with deconstructionists. They had razed the English department, and locked themselves in with a poster of Derrida and the collected works of John Cage. By the time we were done, only I remained. Everyone else had gone to pieces.

Don't go to pieces on us, eh?

This made me laugh out loud.  Now my filthy assistant thinks I'm crazy.   

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Actually, symbols are somewhat arbitrary.

Words are not.

Not if we plan on having anything more than that "all is maya" crap.

[Tempest Virago]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that saying words are meaningless is completely idiotic. The purpose of words is to communicate, and if they're not doing that then there is no purpose. Similarly, if words do communicate, then there is a purpose, even if they aren't "proper" words. Basically, if people know what you mean when you use a word, you're doing it right, and if they don't, you're not.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that saying words are meaningless is completely idiotic. The purpose of words is to communicate, and if they're not doing that then there is no purpose. Similarly, if words do communicate, then there is a purpose, even if they aren't "proper" words. Basically, if people know what you mean when you use a word, you're doing it right, and if they don't, you're not.

[Requia ☣]

Words are plenty arbitrary, that just doesn't mean they're meaningless.  99% of the time, you have to use the same arbitrary meaning as everyone else.

Though if you're told to invent a fake alien language that the pathetically obsessed fans of a TV show can learn, you can make a set of new arbitrary meanings.

[Kai]

Actually, symbols are somewhat arbitrary.

Words are not.

Not if we plan on having anything more than that "all is maya" crap.

Words are not meaningless. That doesn't mean that the fact that these particular scritch marks here indicate this sound here and that sound indicates a particular concept, that doesn't mean those conjunctions of lines and sound and meaning have any particular meaning above the meaning of the concept. Words are symbols, and symbols are somewhat arbitrary, not in MEANING, but in FORM.

For example, take the written letters "you". That a line crossed down to a longer line next to a circle next to an arch together indicate a particular sound and a particular meaning is arbitrary. The letters that indicate those sounds could have turned out like anything, those set of lines only have that particular meaning because we all agree they have that particular meaning. Its otherwise somewhat arbitrary.

Thats what I was saying. Not that "all is maya" or whatever you are talking about.

[Faithless]

If a thing is real for you, then that is enough. Don't let others bug you.

It's not so much that others bug me, personally, as that I'm getting the growing sense that this particular corner of Discordia is becoming increasingly closed to those of us who do have religion; the spiritual and the religious, whether reverently or irreverently so. How many people here will confess to being spiritual or religious, in the face of being mocked by their atheism-embracing peers? I know several who are privately spiritual... yet religion-baiting is a popular sport here, and I take part in it too. I don't despise religion, though, or the religious, even though I may be eccentric in the way I practice mine. I despise evangelism and fundamentalism in almost all aspects, for the way the practitioners of those try to impose their irrational, indefensible beliefs on others.

Like I said in another thread, I don't want to see PD.com Discordianism turn into Pastafarianism. I like the St. Maes of Discord, and I think it would be pretty sad if people like she or I or some of the others I know felt marginalized here. Well, some of them already do.

Anyway. If this is the corner of the Web designated for Atheist Discordians, that's all well and good. I'll take my ball and go to another playground. But if it's not, I'll stick around, and I'm going to stop keeping my mouth shut and going with the flow when it comes to taking blanket jabs at other people's religion.

All too true. Perhaps the difficulty lies in the minds of those that ridicule. It is easy to laugh at faith when you have none. I do not live my life based on faith, but to have something to believe in makes it a bit easier to hear those who do not. The dividing line between faith and reason is wher we live our lives. Faith guides us, but reason must be our sovereign.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Taken out of human context, words are meaningless.

That context is dependent on people of a specific, time and place.

If all human beings died, many things—words on billboards, roads, heaps of garbage—would remain, but meaning wouldn't.

Meaning lies in human experience, not outside of it or in words themselves.

Words are tools used to create meaning in people.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Actually, symbols are somewhat arbitrary.

Words are not.

Not if we plan on having anything more than that "all is maya" crap.

Words are not meaningless. That doesn't mean that the fact that these particular scritch marks here indicate this sound here and that sound indicates a particular concept, that doesn't mean those conjunctions of lines and sound and meaning have any particular meaning above the meaning of the concept. Words are symbols, and symbols are somewhat arbitrary, not in MEANING, but in FORM.

For example, take the written letters "you". That a line crossed down to a longer line next to a circle next to an arch together indicate a particular sound and a particular meaning is arbitrary. The letters that indicate those sounds could have turned out like anything, those set of lines only have that particular meaning because we all agree they have that particular meaning. Its otherwise somewhat arbitrary.

Thats what I was saying. Not that "all is maya" or whatever you are talking about.

Sorry.  My symbols seem to have suddenly jumped out of phase with yours, arbitrarily, and I couldn't make heads or tails of your post.  No offense; it seems that I have gorgoplatz.  Arib?  Jsyt mig poop?

[Tempest Virago]

Taken out of human context, words are meaningless.

That context is dependent on people of a specific, time and place.

If all human beings died, many things—words on billboards, roads, heaps of garbage—would remain, but meaning wouldn't.

Meaning lies in human experience, not outside of it or in words themselves.

Words are tools used to create meaning in people.

Uh, yeah, but they aren't taken out of human context, so in the context we're talking about, they do have meaning.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Taken out of human context, words are meaningless.

That context is dependent on people of a specific, time and place.

If all human beings died, many things—words on billboards, roads, heaps of garbage—would remain, but meaning wouldn't.

Meaning lies in human experience, not outside of it or in words themselves.

Words are tools used to create meaning in people.

No, words are meant to communicate between people.  If all human beings died, you have bigger worries, right?  Like being dead.  By your logic, math is subjective, because symbols don't actually mean anything.  Ergo, everyone should pass calculus, because your answer is just as "valid" as mine.

Bullshit navel-lint gathering:  Because it's easier than actually thinking.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Taken out of human context, words are meaningless.

That context is dependent on people of a specific, time and place.

If all human beings died, many things—words on billboards, roads, heaps of garbage—would remain, but meaning wouldn't.

Meaning lies in human experience, not outside of it or in words themselves.

Words are tools used to create meaning in people.

Uh, yeah, but they aren't taken out of human context, so in the context we're talking about, they do have meaning.

The point was that people create the meaning, not the words.