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Lovecraft for Squids: Scifi Religion Creation

Started by QueenThera, December 17, 2014, 09:43:41 AM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

In the case of octopodes, they have a lot of decentralized processing, and each limb has a huge number of neurons that allow them to function fairly independently of the octopus' cognitive processing. Think of it as a little like the human enteric system; it chugs along with relatively little input from our prefrontal cortex. It will even keep on doing its thing if Command Central up in the neocortex is quite dead. We can feel a lot of what it's doing, but we can't tell it what, at least not using our brains.

As with other animals, a sense of the relative location and position of the body in space, and the amount of exerted force necessary to move or to pick up objects such as food, is essential for survival and without it, it is profoundly unlikely for an individual animal to survive, let alone a species.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


QueenThera

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 30, 2014, 03:03:41 AM
Quote from: S on December 29, 2014, 09:06:21 AM
That seems very similar to "did not learn to discriminate between two different proprioceptive inputs in this test." It might have been because of their reliance on that really cool mechanoreceptor that apparently operates off sucker deformation, but if a creature cannot learn to discriminate between two sensory inputs can it be said to have that sense?

I absolutely accept that I've probably misread this entire thing but that was the exact process I followed to get to where I got.

You are confusing the process of cognitively processing sensation inputs with responding to sensation inputs. If you touch a hot stove and jerk away before you understand what happened, does the sensation that caused you to jerk away actually happen in the milliseconds between the reflexive response and the cognitive response?

It is fairly certain that flatworms have no cognitive reasoning and cannot learn at all, but they nonetheless have senses and can orient themselves according to relevant sensory inputs.

Sensation precedes, and indeed is necessary for, thought.
It would be interesting to explore sapient squids feeling untethered (can't think of the proper word for the mind/body disconnect) from their limbs. Certainly they can manipulate objects with them, but there's a lot more unconscious processing occurring.

Imagine being able to truthfully say "I didn't mean to grab your ass. It just happened."
Often incoherent. Tends to ramble on about various topics.
Hopes to get beyond that.

Formerly BrotherPrickle

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 30, 2014, 03:34:26 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 30, 2014, 03:03:41 AM
Quote from: S on December 29, 2014, 09:06:21 AM
That seems very similar to "did not learn to discriminate between two different proprioceptive inputs in this test." It might have been because of their reliance on that really cool mechanoreceptor that apparently operates off sucker deformation, but if a creature cannot learn to discriminate between two sensory inputs can it be said to have that sense?

I absolutely accept that I've probably misread this entire thing but that was the exact process I followed to get to where I got.

You are confusing the process of cognitively processing sensation inputs with responding to sensation inputs. If you touch a hot stove and jerk away before you understand what happened, does the sensation that caused you to jerk away actually happen in the milliseconds between the reflexive response and the cognitive response?

It is fairly certain that flatworms have no cognitive reasoning and cannot learn at all, but they nonetheless have senses and can orient themselves according to relevant sensory inputs.

Sensation precedes, and indeed is necessary for, thought.
It would be interesting to explore sapient squids feeling untethered (can't think of the proper word for the mind/body disconnect) from their limbs. Certainly they can manipulate objects with them, but there's a lot more unconscious processing occurring.

Imagine being able to truthfully say "I didn't mean to grab your ass. It just happened."

It's probably pretty unlikely that any species can achieve higher cognitive function without an accompanying level of conscious impulse inhibition.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Also, not to venture into the land of pedantry, but that isn't how the processing works. The arms process problems that are extremely regular and vital to daily function, like grabbing food and delivering it to the mouth. So you might be looking at a hypothetical situation more like "Sorry I jammed your kid into my beak, it just happened". Which is why cognitive-level inhibitions of that kind of function would be critical for development of a complex intelligent society.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Chelagoras The Boulder

Tho that plus the "gross squeezing through holes"thing would make for a pretty unique species, setting-wise
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Q. G. Pennyworth


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 30, 2014, 06:41:17 PM
Related to earlier in the discussion: http://wtfevolution.tumblr.com/post/78013475943/oh-what-a-cute-little-mouse-its-not-a

:lulz: I think I posted a link to a documentary on these things a while back. They get super nasty toward the end, just tottering tattered rape zombie marsupials.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 22, 2014, 07:42:44 PM
It's the one with the soaring, half-time epic chorus, "It's a message from a cone/that was left so long ago/no one knows, where it goes".

This line keeps making me chuckle.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."