Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 07:17:51 am

Title: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 07:17:51 am
I experienced this moment 96 trillion times before because it felt that way, but i know it's happening for the first time and it's happening now. whatever. I'll just go with the flow and see where it has already taken me, for the first time. you can't explain that(!) but i don't need to. I look around and people are playing their parts in this play. the thing is, no one gave them lines. they have to adlib them.

If you fuck up you are penalized. The penalty can be as light as getting laughed at or as serious as dying. this shit is really complex and i never really saw the scope of it before now. it's overwhelming until you look at like a game. and don't think that just because you see it as a game that it ain't deadly fucking serious.

i know this game but my pride prevented me from playing it, but i was mistaken. my pride prevented me from even understanding what the game was. i was trying not to play some game all the while losing at The Game because i'd fucking forgotten, like Robin Williams forgot his happy thought.  I found it recently.  I was able to remember and now all i can do is feel like an idiot... for now.

i strive to remember every time but i get distracted by all the petty bullshit i have to deal with everyday only realizing the cruel irony after the fact. all those same problems can be resolved by playing The Game.  And no, i'm not talking about your game.  If you think you know what i'm talking about, you're wrong.  If you know what i'm talking about then you fucking know what The Game is. If you have the ball, you have it.  If you don't, you don't.

you're out there right?

i've met a few of you before.  it's a conspiracy. if only a few more of us at the bottom knew how to play.

Shit... if only more of us at the bottom knew it even existed. i'm going to go smoke a 305, I can't afford newports right now.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Faust on July 25, 2012, 09:16:01 am
You are really putting too much faith in The Conspiracy. It's really not well ordered at all, the left hand does not know what the right is doing.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 10:02:19 am
You are really putting too much faith in The Conspiracy. It's really not well ordered at all, the left hand does not know what the right is doing.

Thanks for the feedback.  I was talking about a different kind of game.  I'm gonna give more people a chance to read/comment before i can clarify what i'm talking about.  Not because i'd like to preserve the "mystery" (i'm not that kind of douche) but because hardly anyone has seen it and i'm really hoping that someone might know wtf i'm talking about, because that would be a trip.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: hirley0 on July 25, 2012, 01:31:28 pm
Go back East: Easy?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: hirley0 on July 25, 2012, 01:35:09 pm
Then takea deap breath of brown air give a sigh of relief
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 25, 2012, 02:09:06 pm
You are really putting too much faith in The Conspiracy. It's really not well ordered at all, the left hand does not know what the right is doing.

Thanks for the feedback.  I was talking about a different kind of game.  I'm gonna give more people a chance to read/comment before i can clarify what i'm talking about.  Not because i'd like to preserve the "mystery" (i'm not that kind of douche) but because hardly anyone has seen it and i'm really hoping that someone might know wtf i'm talking about, because that would be a trip.

I think I'm gonna wait until you clarify.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 06:22:49 pm
You are really putting too much faith in The Conspiracy. It's really not well ordered at all, the left hand does not know what the right is doing.

Thanks for the feedback.  I was talking about a different kind of game.  I'm gonna give more people a chance to read/comment before i can clarify what i'm talking about.  Not because i'd like to preserve the "mystery" (i'm not that kind of douche) but because hardly anyone has seen it and i'm really hoping that someone might know wtf i'm talking about, because that would be a trip.

I think I'm gonna wait until you clarify.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume time is a closed loop and has already happened. Your life has already occurred in the 4th dimension (time) but we can only experience it from moment to moment because we are 3 dimensional creatures passing through a 4th dimensional plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQx9U6awFw

In my poorly written rant, life is predetermined. To play the game is to follow the script.  The problem is our consciousness will not allow us to see it in its entirety, we are not sufficiently evolved.  The Game (capitalized) is a code of conduct that allows you to navigate life and it's challenges successfully.  Deviation from (or lack of knowledge of) this code results in the unhappiness and tragedies in your life that you cause to yourself.  Adherence to the code will bring you through the tragedies that happen in your life that effect you, but were outside of your control.

The Game is a complex code of conduct.  Every possible situation, and even moment, has an appropriate response.  While playing the game your responses cause you to lose or gain points or remain neutral.  We strive to improve situations in our everyday lives but how do we know what the best choice is when the future is not visible to us, much less many possible futures?  We can only imagine the potential outcomes using our human brains and making our best guess. Having faith that the game will bring you through each situation eliminates the fear of making the wrong choices because while you are playing, as complex as any social situation or problem may be, the system is intuitive once you start playing.

So what is this code of conduct that is the answer to all of life's woes and will navigate you successfully through life?  Here's where you facepalm Roger.  I only understand this system while high.  While high i look around at others and how they interact with their subjective realities and the environment (reality) you can just tell if they are versed in the game by how well they improvise the script in accordance with the implicit rules.  Optimal choices are apparent for the most part, even including times when people trying to satisfy personal desires. Whether your personal goals are commonly held as noble pursuits or otherwise, you can achieve them.

This happens every time i smoke marijuana. Laugh if you want Roger, but i'm relatively new to the experience. For some reason it affects me profoundly.  I experience things that i discovered by speaking with others and reading online, are quite uncommon.  Not unique, but pretty rare. For example, besides the game and all it's ridiculousness, when people speak i see subtitles. Maybe i imagine it, but i imagine it hard enough to see it without apparent effort. Physical sensations which are somewhat more common than the previous phenomenon include the feeling that i am hula hooping on the deck of a rocking boat.  Sometimes the sensation is localized and centered to a specific point or region of my body (head, neck, solar plexus, gut, groin) Sometimes it encompasses the entire body.

I know people on this forum prefer to argue about drug policy than speak about personal experiences with drugs, but i'd much appreciate any thoughts on similar experiences and/or criticisms/questions regarding what i've already mentioned.  This is my attempt to create original content and just share and experience with you spags

edited for grammar and typos
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 25, 2012, 06:25:58 pm
Laugh if you want Roger,

Actually, I'm just going to leave this right here and let someone else pick it up.

As you say, this is an attempt at content, and I don't feel the need to...Well, you know.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 25, 2012, 06:27:08 pm
Your initial assumption is massively flawed, so there's not much point in debating the rest.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 06:34:30 pm
Your initial assumption is massively flawed, so there's not much point in debating the rest.

That time is a closed loop? Why not? Pretend like it is.  I'm not here for a debate.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 25, 2012, 06:38:48 pm
Your initial assumption is massively flawed, so there's not much point in debating the rest.

That time is a closed loop? Why not? Pretend like it is.  I'm not here for a debate.

I...I feel like a U-boat captain watching a merchantman fall out of a convoy with a crippled engine.

I don't know whether it's asshole or breakfast time.  I'm gonna plotz.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 25, 2012, 06:43:10 pm
Why should I pretend the universe works in a way that is false, only to play semantic games relating to Free Will?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 06:51:47 pm
Why should I pretend the universe works in a way that is false, only to play semantic games relating to Free Will?

The game aside, i'm not the first person under the influence to feel this way about time. According to the entheogen theory of religion, mind altering substances were an integral part of many early religions.  I'm guessing that perceiving time under the influence led to many early cultures incorporating fate and determinism into their common beliefs.  If string theory is correct or aspects of it are one day proven it can give weight to this.  My ideas about time are simply ideas.  I don't know what to believe about the nature of time.  I can only experience it from moment to moment like others do.  Smoking yanks me out of this paradigm.  I realize that what i feel under the influence of drugs may not reflect reality (understatement).  I realize The Game may be a product of my imagination while high.  I don't have much experience with drugs.  I just wanted to present something to the community. The thing being "The Game."
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 25, 2012, 07:14:42 pm
Hey, I also "feel" that the earth is flat and the sun orbits the earth.  Any good reason I should pretend that's true?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 25, 2012, 07:16:26 pm
I realize that what i feel under the influence of drugs may not reflect reality (understatement).

Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 07:37:43 pm
Hey, I also "feel" that the earth is flat and the sun orbits the earth.  Any good reason I should pretend that's true?

I don't know whether you're criticizing the game or the idea that time has already occurred.  It's understandable to easily dismiss the game.  As far as time goes, early people explained it by God/magic.  I'm trying to understand it in the context of string theory.  Have i just completely not comprehended that aspect of the 4th dimension according to string theory or do you reject string theory as patently ridiculous?  Or do you just reject theories?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 25, 2012, 07:48:19 pm
Actually, come to think of it, I'm rejecting the notion that you even remotely understand string theory.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 07:59:46 pm
Actually, come to think of it, I'm rejecting the notion that you even remotely understand string theory.

Most definitely. Forget i mentioned string theory. I want to move on. Let's say that our lives are predetermined. Or don't LMNO.  Roger pretty much made his view clear while holding back the level of insult i expected.  I appreciate the civility Roger.  I was able to understand how you felt about the issue and your statement was clear and concise.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 25, 2012, 08:06:12 pm
Our lives are not predetermined.  Why should I presume that?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 25, 2012, 08:09:50 pm
Actually, come to think of it, I'm rejecting the notion that you even remotely understand string theory.

Most definitely. Forget i mentioned string theory. I want to move on. Let's say that our lives are predetermined. Or don't LMNO.  Roger pretty much made his view clear while holding back the level of insult i expected.  I appreciate the civility Roger.  I was able to understand how you felt about the issue and your statement was clear and concise.

Actually, that was more self-preservation than anything else.  I had this GIANT SCREAM halfway up my throat, and it was all I could do to hold it in.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 25, 2012, 08:10:18 pm
Our lives are not predetermined.  Why should I presume that?

I certainly don't, on account of Papa Hemmingway.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 08:17:45 pm
Our lives are not predetermined.  Why should I presume that?

There is no reason to.  If it were, the game would be pointless because if life were predetermined there would be no reason to play.  Obviously the choices we make matter.  The point of the game is to return optimal results for your choices in accordance to some self determined utility.  The entire sensation of being removed from experiencing time moment to moment and observing the present from outside of time is what i'm trying to convey and failing.  There is no term for it.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 08:19:13 pm
Actually, come to think of it, I'm rejecting the notion that you even remotely understand string theory.

Most definitely. Forget i mentioned string theory. I want to move on. Let's say that our lives are predetermined. Or don't LMNO.  Roger pretty much made his view clear while holding back the level of insult i expected.  I appreciate the civility Roger.  I was able to understand how you felt about the issue and your statement was clear and concise.

Actually, that was more self-preservation than anything else.  I had this GIANT SCREAM halfway up my throat, and it was all I could do to hold it in.

I'll try not to make your head explode with rage.  I'd really like to explore this concept with you guys.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 25, 2012, 08:31:38 pm
If our lives are not predetermined, then time is not a closed loop.  End of argument.

I know it looks really pretty in the isolation of your stoned brain, but it has no connection with the universe as we know it, and so it's not really worth talking about, unless you're planning to write a sci-fi story around the concept.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 08:46:02 pm
If our lives are not predetermined, then time is not a closed loop.  End of argument.

I know it looks really pretty in the isolation of your stoned brain, but it has no connection with the universe as we know it, and so it's not really worth talking about, unless you're planning to write a sci-fi story around the concept.

I don't have the vocabulary to rectify the apparent contradiction between a defined 4th dimensional space and time not being prewritten.  Insult me if you like but i'm not a stoner not by anyone's standards.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 25, 2012, 08:52:33 pm
I only understand this system while high. 

This happens every time i smoke marijuana.

No insult meant, I was merely going off your assertion that these thoughts happen when you get stoned.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 09:02:11 pm
I only understand this system while high. 

This happens every time i smoke marijuana.

No insult meant, I was merely going off your assertion that these thoughts happen when you get stoned.

My bad, i'm paranoid by nature so i often imagine harsher tones.  That's one of the reasons i am not a stoner.  It's an occasional treat for me and it does wonders for the pain from the wreckage of a body the Marine Corps has left me with... and i got off easy.

String theory entered the equation because the concept in the video i linked is the closest thing to a scientific analogy i could find.  It's also popular (most people on this forum have probably come across it) and simple for the layman to understand.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on July 25, 2012, 09:28:42 pm
Greetings Blackfoot.

The problem of free will and predetermination is very simple to solve from within our experience.  It is a difference that makes no difference.  Whether or not the determination of you existence is a fact the perceptions of daily life tend toward simple cause and effect and free will.  There is no need to waste your time wondering if there's a destiny or direction. If there is then your experiences of it will still be limited to the sense of free will.  If drugs alter this for you, well, that's pretty neat. Don't set a life plan to it.  The mis-perception of a destined future tends to lead to really dumb decisions because it feels good for some reason. 

I think that the reason has to do with the removal of PERSONAL responsibility from the equation if the future is pre-written.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 25, 2012, 09:46:59 pm
Greetings Blackfoot.

The problem of free will and predetermination is very simple to solve from within our experience.  It is a difference that makes no difference.  Whether or not the determination of you existence is a fact the perceptions of daily life tend toward simple cause and effect and free will.  There is no need to waste your time wondering if there's a destiny or direction. If there is then your experiences of it will still be limited to the sense of free will.

Thanks for the feedback.  That is definitely the most logical conclusion one can draw.  Given the context of the video it would be impossible to (permanently) transcend the limitations of our consciousness, i just enjoy the sense of having what feels like a peek at a higher level of being.  Unfortunately, it seems like we don't even have the mental framework to be able to comprehend this potential form of existence.

Quote
If drugs alter this for you, well, that's pretty neat. Don't set a life plan to it.  The mis-perception of a destined future tends to lead to really dumb decisions because it feels good for some reason. 

I think that the reason has to do with the removal of PERSONAL responsibility from the equation if the future is pre-written.

The Game is certainly seductive in this way.  If i could induce it in others that would be something, if only so they know what the fuck i'm talking about.  But that's where the contradiction lies.  The Game simultaneously suggests time is written and unwritten.

ETA: That also leads back to entheogen theory of religion and also the popularity of believing in and giving one's life over to Fate... and the epic tales of people fighting against their destiny
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 26, 2012, 05:07:31 am
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 05:13:02 am
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's a mini-game within The Game, hahaha.  There are rules for that too and it doesn't include canned material.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 26, 2012, 05:13:47 am
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's a mini-game within The Game, hahaha.  There are rules for that too and it doesn't include canned material.

Ugh
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 05:39:27 am
I realize that what i feel under the influence of drugs may not reflect reality (understatement).

I feel that what you feel under the influence of drugs reflects your reality at the time you're feeling it.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 05:42:27 am
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's probably the template.  :x
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 06:00:01 am
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's a mini-game within The Game, hahaha.  There are rules for that too and it doesn't include canned material.

Ugh

You know how you DON'T like a guy to approach you right?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 26, 2012, 06:54:25 am
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's a mini-game within The Game, hahaha.  There are rules for that too and it doesn't include canned material.

Ugh

You know how you DON'T like a guy to approach you right?

No. Are you going to tell me?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: LMNO on July 26, 2012, 02:58:11 pm
String theory entered the equation because the concept in the video i linked is the closest thing to a scientific analogy i could find.  It's also popular (most people on this forum have probably come across it) and simple for the layman to understand.

The very fact that it's both an analogy and simple to understand guarantees it's horribly wrong.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 03:00:24 pm
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's a mini-game within The Game, hahaha.  There are rules for that too and it doesn't include canned material.

Wow.

So the cynical objectification of the person you're chasing is the same, but the delivery is different.

That makes everything okay.

Blarg.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 05:19:48 pm
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's a mini-game within The Game, hahaha.  There are rules for that too and it doesn't include canned material.

Wow.

So the cynical objectification of the person you're chasing is the same, but the delivery is different.

That makes everything okay.

Blarg.

I'm not a "PUA" and i'm not prepared to defend womanizing, but i know there are guys out there that have healthy attitudes towards relationships and women and can easily pick up women.  Have you ever seen the guys who appeared on Mystery's show?  A lot of them are straight toolbags... and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.  If these "good" guys can learn how to socialize with women and learn confidence in themselves i'm all for it.  As far as learning "techniques" to pick up women I don't see a problem as long as these are tips to build attraction, interest, and comfort and not methods to deceive.  Or i suppose these guys can keep banging their heads against the wall when they don't ever seem to understand why no one wants to give them a chance.  If any "program" offers anything i think the foundation should be learning confidence and how to be a chill and relaxed dude, and how to screen a woman out the kind of woman who wouldn't be a good match for a healthy relationship... and perhaps to help heal the damage done to them.

ETA: shit... you can get these things by taking a public speaking course, or maybe getting some fashion tips and a makeover, learning some culture and having some interesting shit to talk about.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 06:17:52 pm
"Screen a woman out?" What, relationships are a fucking job interview?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 06:24:57 pm
"Screen a woman out?" What, relationships are a fucking job interview?

Yea, like help realize the signs of a manipulative psychopath BEFORE you get in too deep.  I know that kind of takes some of the fun out of it, but i'm sure you see how this might be helpful.

ETA: Not the relationship, but the dating process. Wouldn't you say that normally each date is kind of like a two-way interview, just not in the professional format?  Guys that have limited ability with females usually end up in a cycle where only they are the ones being judged and evaluated.  If they can learn that they have the right to be selective, not taking anything that comes their way and that they don't have to settle for less it can be a form of empowerment.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 06:48:53 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 07:14:35 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Am i hopeless because sometimes when i'm high i contemplate the nature of time and come up with ridiculous ideas AND i want to talk about them when i'm sober?  Look down your nose at me if you want to.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 26, 2012, 07:23:57 pm
Dude,  all I can think of every time you say "The Game" is those stupid seduction schemes. Like "The Rules" for lonely basement-dwelling guys, as opposed to 30-year-old virgin women who live with their mothers and 14 cats.

That's a mini-game within The Game, hahaha.  There are rules for that too and it doesn't include canned material.

Wow.

So the cynical objectification of the person you're chasing is the same, but the delivery is different.

That makes everything okay.

Blarg.

I'm not a "PUA" and i'm not prepared to defend womanizing, but i know there are guys out there that have healthy attitudes towards relationships and women and can easily pick up women.  Have you ever seen the guys who appeared on Mystery's show?  A lot of them are straight toolbags... and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.  If these "good" guys can learn how to socialize with women and learn confidence in themselves i'm all for it.  As far as learning "techniques" to pick up women I don't see a problem as long as these are tips to build attraction, interest, and comfort and not methods to deceive.  Or i suppose these guys can keep banging their heads against the wall when they don't ever seem to understand why no one wants to give them a chance.  If any "program" offers anything i think the foundation should be learning confidence and how to be a chill and relaxed dude, and how to screen a woman out the kind of woman who wouldn't be a good match for a healthy relationship... and perhaps to help heal the damage done to them.

ETA: shit... you can get these things by taking a public speaking course, or maybe getting some fashion tips and a makeover, learning some culture and having some interesting shit to talk about.

Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 07:26:27 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Luna on July 26, 2012, 07:47:39 pm

...and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Jesus FUCK, just listen to yourself.

I mean, really, how the fuck did the world get to a point where anybody thinks they can "pick up" another person, like they're going to the goddamn store to pick up a loaf of bread?

"Oh, poor me, I'm such a NICE guy, why won't the pretty girls pay attention to me?"  Maybe because the "pretty" girls aren't interested in somebody who just sees them as the "attractive women."

If you can't get your eyes off her boobs, trust me, the ones worth a damn won't give you the time of day.  SHE knows her own value, and knows she deserves better than bullshit games.

For the record, if you have ever referred to picking up women as a "game," of any kind, you pretty much deserve to spend the rest of your life fapping into a dirty sock, unless and until you get your head out of your ass.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 07:51:32 pm

...and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Jesus FUCK, just listen to yourself.

I mean, really, how the fuck did the world get to a point where anybody thinks they can "pick up" another person, like they're going to the goddamn store to pick up a loaf of bread?

"Oh, poor me, I'm such a NICE guy, why won't the pretty girls pay attention to me?"  Maybe because the "pretty" girls aren't interested in somebody who just sees them as the "attractive women."

If you can't get your eyes off her boobs, trust me, the ones worth a damn won't give you the time of day.  SHE knows her own value, and knows she deserves better than bullshit games.

For the record, if you have ever referred to picking up women as a "game," of any kind, you pretty much deserve to spend the rest of your life fapping into a dirty sock, unless and until you get your head out of your ass.

Once again proving Nigel's point that the Luna one is a good one.

Putting on some fake act to get your dick wet: we've seen it 1000 times by the time we're fifteen, FFS.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 08:00:16 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite. 
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 08:03:41 pm
and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Nigel answered this one, some time ago.

If you're interested, I'll paraphrase what she had to say.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 08:16:21 pm

...and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Jesus FUCK, just listen to yourself.

I mean, really, how the fuck did the world get to a point where anybody thinks they can "pick up" another person, like they're going to the goddamn store to pick up a loaf of bread?

People do it every weekend in cities all over the world and guess what, not every time is a poor woman tricked into spreading her legs for some chump who knows PUA tricks.  Sometimes people find that they are mutually attracted to one another and are open about the fact that the fun is for the night.  Other times girls get their hearts broken and end up feeling used by douche bags.  Is this the value we should have for another human being? No.  Can two adults have a sexual encounter without degrading one or BOTH parties as human beings?  I think so.

Quote
"Oh, poor me, I'm such a NICE guy, why won't the pretty girls pay attention to me?"  Maybe because the "pretty" girls aren't interested in somebody who just sees them as the "attractive women."

If you can't get your eyes off her boobs, trust me, the ones worth a damn won't give you the time of day.  SHE knows her own value, and knows she deserves better than bullshit games.

These are not the only type of person who might need help with women.

Quote
For the record, if you have ever referred to picking up women as a "game," of any kind, you pretty much deserve to spend the rest of your life fapping into a dirty sock, unless and until you get your head out of your ass.

Men have treated pickup as a game or a challenge.  Sometimes men pursue a woman for sex and sometimes they are pursuing their vision of an ideal person to be with.  Two ends of the spectrum and women also fit there. Some women are looking for a good lay without complications and some are pursuing a Disney fantasy relationship with the man of their dreams.  Why do these things have to be wrong?  They don't. You can achieve these goals without hurting people and it can be done with integrity. This can be learned.

If a person is a shitty person to begin with, fixing what makes them fucked up can be lumped in with "learning how to pick up women."
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 08:17:24 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 08:19:44 pm
and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Nigel answered this one, some time ago.

If you're interested, I'll paraphrase what she had to say.

Badly needs to be reiterated ITT, IMHO.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 08:22:33 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 08:25:55 pm
and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Nigel answered this one, some time ago.

If you're interested, I'll paraphrase what she had to say.

I'm semi-interested.  I'm also of the belief that if a person wants to be with someone they find physically attractive they should go for it.  I also believe that ff that's all they are seeking then they have more problems than ignorance of modern courting techniques.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 08:26:14 pm
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 08:27:05 pm
I'm semi-interested. 

Then go watch "Mystery's show".  Maybe he will tell you.

Or maybe he'll offer the answer on easy credit terms.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 08:30:45 pm
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil. I put it in the same category as martial arts.  It may draw people for the wrong reasons and especially draw the wrong kinds of people, but people CAN come out of it better
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 08:37:15 pm
Martial arts draws more people for the right reasons (self defense, physical activity, make news friends, etc.) than does pick up artistry.  The only people who are successful at pick up artistry are, without exception, complete and utter shitnecks, because the basic principles involved reduce women to a statistic, and the greatest weapons in their arsenal rely on negative attention.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 08:37:48 pm
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil.

No, of course not.  Manipulating certain types of women into bed is perfectly normal and commendable behavior.  Negging is something that everyone should do.  Just being yourself is for suckers.  Just being nice is also for suckers.

FACT:  Within 10 minutes of meeting you, at the outside, a woman has a pretty good idea if she's attracted to you.  Whether or not she does anything about this may take longer.  PUA is based on the idea that you can manipulate a woman into bed by breaking her down, or even in some parts of the "technique" sexual assault, rather than simply allow her to make up her own mind.

It isn't about "self-confidence".  If it was, "negging" and "force the kiss" (or whatever it's called) would not be fucking necessary.  Learning to TALK to people is about "self-confidence".  Learning to manipulate the sort of person who responds to manipulation is no different, morally, than getting that person falling-down drunk and going to town.  Or hell, even doing the roofie thing.  The ONLY difference is the method used against the person.

You don't need a defense against abusive people.  You ARE an abusive person.  You've just managed to lie to yourself about it.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 08:38:31 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.

PUA techniques work on women who are borderline retarded, or else the kind of women who go after guys with gold chains, usually hoping they'll pass out so they can be rolled. I suppose there are very rare cases where being an asshole who fucks mentally defective women, or an asshole who plays cat-and-mouse with larcenous women, or the kind of woman who looks for assholes to rob, eventually creates such a high level of self-disgust that the subject makes an effort to become a better person. Generally, though, these people die assholes.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 08:39:19 pm
It may draw people for the wrong reasons and especially draw the wrong kinds of people, but people CAN come out of it better

No.  They can't.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 08:40:13 pm
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil. I put it in the same category as martial arts.  It may draw people for the wrong reasons and especially draw the wrong kinds of people, but people CAN come out of it better

:spittake:
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 08:42:06 pm
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil.

No, of course not.  Manipulating certain types of women into bed is perfectly normal and commendable behavior.  Negging is something that everyone should do.  Just being yourself is for suckers.  Just being nice is also for suckers.

FACT:  Within 10 minutes of meeting you, at the outside, a woman has a pretty good idea if she's attracted to you.  Whether or not she does anything about this may take longer.  PUA is based on the idea that you can manipulate a woman into bed by breaking her down, or even in some parts of the "technique" sexual assault, rather than simply allow her to make up her own mind.

It isn't about "self-confidence".  If it was, "negging" and "force the kiss" (or whatever it's called) would not be fucking necessary.  Learning to TALK to people is about "self-confidence".  Learning to manipulate the sort of person who responds to manipulation is no different, morally, than getting that person falling-down drunk and going to town.  Or hell, even doing the roofie thing.  The ONLY difference is the method used against the person.

You don't need a defense against abusive people.  You ARE an abusive person.  You've just managed to lie to yourself about it.

Also THIS.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 08:45:43 pm
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 08:46:47 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.

PUA techniques work on women who are borderline retarded

That is beyond unfair, Stella.  Just because a woman is broken and falls for it doesn't mean they're fucking stupid.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 08:48:55 pm
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.

Naw.  You don't respect women at all.

But why would you have to, when Mystery can tell you all about women?  And how to find the busted ones and take advantage of them.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 08:56:39 pm
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.

Naw.  You don't respect women at all.

But why would you have to, when Mystery can tell you all about women?  And how to find the busted ones and take advantage of them.

When did i say i was a pick up artist?  I'm not.  I don't attempt to conceal who i am or trick anyone into liking me.  As you can see.  I treat all people with a basic level of respect.  I do respect Nigel.  She's obviously very intelligent and she knows what she's talking about.  She stated one reason she doesn't support PUA systems and it's perfectly legit.

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 08:57:56 pm

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 09:01:21 pm
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.

PUA techniques work on women who are borderline retarded

That is beyond unfair, Stella.  Just because a woman is broken and falls for it doesn't mean they're fucking stupid.

Point, Freeky.  :sad: I wasn't even thinking in those terms.
Even the ones who roll the gold chain guys aren't in that position by choice. I fucked up. Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 09:03:05 pm
No problem.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 09:05:33 pm

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

Why do you suggest that i support shit like that?  People can take whatever lessons they want from a program like that.  The guys with good hearts and no social ability, if they are indeed good people, can take lessons learned and apply what is morally right.  That's why I've already advocated other things besides a PUA course to help men become better people and become the kind of person who has high value, not because of how they present themselves or how slick they talk, but because they have a strength of character.  Men can learn to bring out their good natures around women and be attractive to them for the right reasons instead of never having a chance.  Because like you said, a woman decides fairly quickly whether she considers a person a worthy sexual partner.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 09:07:06 pm
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 09:15:54 pm
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 09:16:43 pm

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

Why do you suggest that i support shit like that? 

Pretty much throughout this entire thread, since you say PUA shit is a tool that can be used to positive ends, and therefore valid.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 09:18:35 pm

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

Why do you suggest that i support shit like that? 

Because you are defending it, and because that is what "Mystery" teaches.  We had some fun on his website, not too long ago, and there were two things that were worth mentioning:

1.  That's PRECISELY what he teaches, and all other well-known PUA gurus model themselves on him.  And he's the one you mentioned.

2.  The forum was full of fucking losers lining up to pay $3000-$5000 for "boot camp", in which they would be trained to be proper sociopaths.  Fun fact:  Mystery "stages" women for the rubes to "succeed with".  Hell, it probably only costs him ~ 10% of his take, so he's still making mad bank on these pathetic morons.  I would tell them FOR FREE that the best way to meet women is just to meet women, and keep meeting women until you find one that is both attractive to you and attracted to you.  But they wouldn't listen, because they are in fact life's losers, who can only deal with women if they dehumanize them first.  They're even more pathetic than strip club addicts or johns.


People can take whatever lessons they want from a program like that.  The guys with good hearts and no social ability, if they are indeed good people, can take lessons learned and apply what is morally right. 

Again, I've seen the man's technique.  It is a moral vacuum.


Because like you said, a woman decides fairly quickly whether she considers a person a worthy sexual partner.

That is never, incidentally, based on your "act".  It's based on YOU.

Thing is, I define people as persons who can view other people as people.  It's sort of circular, like Mach's Principle, but like Mach's Principle, it works.

Example:  My dog.  My dog is not a people because she views my wife as GOD, LORD OF ALL CREATION (not a person), and everyone else as obstacles at best (again, not a person).

Example 2:  A PUA.  A PUA views women as conquests (not a person), and men as competition (not a person). 

Neither my dog nor PUAs are people.  They are basically animals.  Some of them can be quite friendly or even charming, but they are still animals, because they aren't people.

Example of a people:  Freeky.  Freeky honestly gives a shit about the thoughts and fates of those around her.  She views those around her as people.  She is a people.

Example 2:  Alty.  Alty is QUICK to come on to another person, but at no point (in my experience) does he dehumanize them, even the ones that worked out badly (his ex-wife).  To him, it appears that a lot of sex is just good clean fun, but he doesn't view his partner as a toy, but a people with which he is having a good time.  And he didn't even have to put them down or assault them to do it.  Alty is a people.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 09:23:01 pm
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

Are you differentiating between men who can pick up women strictly through charm and personality and character which are not false acts or calculated for best effect and the basic tenets of which Pick Up Artistry is made of?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 26, 2012, 09:23:24 pm
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

"Being good with women" has NOTHING to do with PUA shit. People who are SHITTY with women resort to PUA.

And you've condoned PUA all through this thread.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 09:33:08 pm
Because you are defending it, and because that is what "Mystery" teaches.  We had some fun on his website, not too long ago, and there were two things that were worth mentioning:

1.  That's PRECISELY what he teaches, and all other well-known PUA gurus model themselves on him.  And he's the one you mentioned.

2.  The forum was full of fucking losers lining up to pay $3000-$5000 for "boot camp", in which they would be trained to be proper sociopaths.  Fun fact:  Mystery "stages" women for the rubes to "succeed with".  Hell, it probably only costs him ~ 10% of his take, so he's still making mad bank on these pathetic morons.  I would tell them FOR FREE that the best way to meet women is just to meet women, and keep meeting women until you find one that is both attractive to you and attracted to you.  But they wouldn't listen, because they are in fact life's losers, who can only deal with women if they dehumanize them first.  They're even more pathetic than strip club addicts or johns.

If this is typical of these programs then that's something I can't behind.

Quote

That is never, incidentally, based on your "act".  It's based on YOU.

Thing is, I define people as persons who can view other people as people.  It's sort of circular, like Mach's Principle, but like Mach's Principle, it works.

Example:  My dog.  My dog is not a people because she views my wife as GOD, LORD OF ALL CREATION (not a person), and everyone else as obstacles at best (again, not a person).

Example 2:  A PUA.  A PUA views women as conquests (not a person), and men as competition (not a person). 

Neither my dog nor PUAs are people.  They are basically animals.  Some of them can be quite friendly or even charming, but they are still animals, because they aren't people.

Example of a people:  Freeky.  Freeky honestly gives a shit about the thoughts and fates of those around her.  She views those around her as people.  She is a people.

Example 2:  Alty.  Alty is QUICK to come on to another person, but at no point (in my experience) does he dehumanize them, even the ones that worked out badly (his ex-wife).  To him, it appears that a lot of sex is just good clean fun, but he doesn't view his partner as a toy, but a people with which he is having a good time.  And he didn't even have to put them down or assault them to do it.  Alty is a people.

I'm not going to nit pick your examples because i get the point.  Do you think that if men who wanted to be more successful with women (for the right reasons) can learn lessons from Alty? If Alty decided to help out a socially inept buddy learn how to pick up women do you think that his lessons would simply consist of tips and tricks?  If you regard him as highly as you seem to then the answer to that last question would be no.  This is the kind of instruction certain men really need and can do wonders with.  Afterwards, if this hypothetical person dubs himself a pick up artist or not seems to be a big point of contention for you.  That's all i'm saying. A PUA doesn't have to do all those fucked up things. A PUA doesn't have to be a fucked up person.  Those just seem to be the type of losers you associate with the term.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 09:37:36 pm
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

Are you differentiating between men who can pick up women strictly through charm and personality and character which are not false acts or calculated for best effect and the basic tenets of which Pick Up Artistry is made of?

I'm really trying to.  It just feels like people are wrapped up with that term and the typical douche who assumes the mantle or aspires to it.  Men who fall into the former category you mentioned can hardly call themselves PUA or discuss pickup without a reaction like this.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Salty on July 26, 2012, 09:39:14 pm
Quote
Example 2:  Alty.  Alty is QUICK to come on to another person, but at no point (in my experience) does he dehumanize them, even the ones that worked out badly (his ex-wife).  To him, it appears that a lot of sex is just good clean fun, but he doesn't view his partner as a toy, but a people with which he is having a good time.  And he didn't even have to put them down or assault them to do it.  Alty is a people.

I have only one "technique" and that's: never try anything. People know if you're trying. Always.

So much of this stuff is chemistry.

I don't even notice how much I flirt.  :) I am told this by other people. I just act how I feel like acting while giving people a considerable amount of respect unless they've let me know they're not worth it. In which case I can be kind of a dick.

I sort of agree that PUA stuff is like martial arts. In that, when you get right down to it, and you've got some 300lb gorilla about to tear your legs off because you spilled your drink on his lady, martial arts are going to do FUCK ALL to prevent that from happening, by and large.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 09:42:05 pm
"Being good with women" has NOTHING to do with PUA shit. People who are SHITTY with women resort to PUA.

And you've condoned PUA all through this thread.

The only thing i have condoned is picking up women.  You seem to think that pickup is all about these tricks and for some people it is, but that's not what i've been talking about.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 09:49:51 pm
I have only one "technique" and that's: never try anything. People know if you're trying. Always.

So much of this stuff is chemistry.

I don't even notice how much I flirt.  :) I am told this by other people. I just act how I feel like acting while giving people a considerable amount of respect unless they've let me know they're not worth it. In which case I can be kind of a dick.

I sort of agree that PUA stuff is like martial arts. In that, when you get right down to it, and you've got some 300lb gorilla about to tear your legs off because you spilled your drink on his lady, martial arts are going to do FUCK ALL to prevent that from happening, by and large.

Have you ever been described as a natural? That kind of response indicates that you have game whether you mean to have it or not  :)  Please don't get caught up in the negative connotations of the word game, i don't doubt you.

I'm sure you've met people that are not the best with women.  (And i'm imagining this is something that has already happened btw) But when you went to help them you didn't teach them PUA tricks/techniques per se, you inspired confidence and promoted positive shit.  Is that far off the mark?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 09:50:46 pm
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

Are you differentiating between men who can pick up women strictly through charm and personality and character which are not false acts or calculated for best effect and the basic tenets of which Pick Up Artistry is made of?

I'm really trying to.  It just feels like people are wrapped up with that term and the typical douche who assumes the mantle or aspires to it.  Men who fall into the former category you mentioned can hardly call themselves PUA or discuss pickup without a reaction like this.

Okay.

PUA, or pick up artist, is specifically in reference to the people who do the horrible manipulation things.  It isn't even a title bestowed upon them, like Teabaggers for tea partiers.  That's what they call themselves.

If you can convince the other people in the thread that you didn't mean them, you meant guys who are good with women, then I think you will have less problems.  But if you are having trouble understanding why people are getting wrapped around the axle over your usage, that's why.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 10:04:46 pm
Okay.

PUA, or pick up artist, is specifically in reference to the people who do the horrible manipulation things.  It isn't even a title bestowed upon them, like Teabaggers for tea partiers.  That's what they call themselves.

If you can convince the other people in the thread that you didn't mean them, you meant guys who are good with women, then I think you will have less problems.  But if you are having trouble understanding why people are getting wrapped around the axle over your usage, that's why.

This all started because on page 3 someone assumed PUA techniques were being employed and instead of immediately denying that I suggested that if someone can get something out of that kind of program they should.  I do think that there are places for pickup that are like the evil dojo from the Karate kid.  If an instructor like Miyagi can be found is something one can hope for, where guys can become better people and be more attractive for that reason.

Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 10:08:58 pm
And what you seem to not be taking away from this is that a successful pick up artist is not a good person simply because of the nature of the PUA beast.

So you can either say "Okay, well I didn't mean that," or you can continue doing what you're doing and the thing you want to discuss will be left behind in favor of people attacking you for defending an inherently dehumanizing system of manipulation.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Luna on July 26, 2012, 10:10:35 pm
Okay.

PUA, or pick up artist, is specifically in reference to the people who do the horrible manipulation things.  It isn't even a title bestowed upon them, like Teabaggers for tea partiers.  That's what they call themselves.

If you can convince the other people in the thread that you didn't mean them, you meant guys who are good with women, then I think you will have less problems.  But if you are having trouble understanding why people are getting wrapped around the axle over your usage, that's why.

This all started because on page 3 someone assumed PUA techniques were being employed and instead of immediately denying that I suggested that if someone can get something out of that kind of program they should.  I do think that there are places for pickup that are like the evil dojo from the Karate kid.  If an instructor like Miyagi can be found is something one can hope for, where guys can become better people and be more attractive for that reason.

:facepalm:

You really don't get it.  At all.

There IS no Miyagi of PUA.  It isn't a martial art.  PUA is all about manipulation, degredation, and lying, both to women and to yourself.  There is no "GOOD" way to do it.

If your goal is to "pick up a woman," you have already failed, miserably.

If your goal is to find a compatable partner, there ARE no tricks.  Meet her, be yourself.  If all the women you try to meet are rejecting you, look at YOURSELF to figure out why, not for ways to manipulate them into wanting you.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 10:17:41 pm
Do you think that if men who wanted to be more successful with women (for the right reasons) can learn lessons from Alty?

No.  You're missing the point entirely.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 10:19:03 pm

Have you ever been described as a natural? That kind of response indicates that you have game whether you mean to have it or not  :)  Please don't get caught up in the negative connotations of the word game, i don't doubt you.

I'm sure you've met people that are not the best with women.  (And i'm imagining this is something that has already happened btw) But when you went to help them you didn't teach them PUA tricks/techniques per se, you inspired confidence and promoted positive shit.  Is that far off the mark?

STILL MISSING A VERY BASIC POINT.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 10:23:42 pm
The point being that good people can't successfully use pick up artist tricks?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 10:25:22 pm
Because I remember when we went to that Manhood101 site, right, and there might have been one guy who was decent (but a failure at PUA), but other than that they were all stone fuckheads.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Salty on July 26, 2012, 10:33:16 pm
I have only one "technique" and that's: never try anything. People know if you're trying. Always.

So much of this stuff is chemistry.

I don't even notice how much I flirt.  :) I am told this by other people. I just act how I feel like acting while giving people a considerable amount of respect unless they've let me know they're not worth it. In which case I can be kind of a dick.

I sort of agree that PUA stuff is like martial arts. In that, when you get right down to it, and you've got some 300lb gorilla about to tear your legs off because you spilled your drink on his lady, martial arts are going to do FUCK ALL to prevent that from happening, by and large.

Have you ever been described as a natural? That kind of response indicates that you have game whether you mean to have it or not  :)  Please don't get caught up in the negative connotations of the word game, i don't doubt you.

I'm sure you've met people that are not the best with women.  (And i'm imagining this is something that has already happened btw) But when you went to help them you didn't teach them PUA tricks/techniques per se, you inspired confidence and promoted positive shit.  Is that far off the mark?

I used to be terrible with MOST social situation, but most especially those with people I wanted to bang. There's some thing in life that a system can't teach. Like writing a novel, for example. You just have to do it, over and over, until you re-wire yourself.

Your brain wants nothing more than to get with at least one other. Whenever I encounter people who are not good with people in that way I say NOTHING. Because nothing will help. You can tell someone how to paint, which strokes to make, but that doesn't mean you can actually paint.

I can sort of see what you're trying to say. But the problem is you're over-thinking it. You don't need a system to do what your brain has spent billions of years doing. A system will just get in the way. You just have to put yourself in social situation with a smile on your face, and keep doing it until you stop thinking about these things with your fancy frontal lobes.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 10:41:56 pm
So you can either say "Okay, well I didn't mean that," or you can continue doing what you're doing and the thing you want to discuss will be left behind in favor of people attacking you for defending an inherently dehumanizing system of manipulation.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that no, that's not what i meant.

You really don't get it.  At all.

There IS no Miyagi of PUA.  It isn't a martial art.  PUA is all about manipulation, degredation, and lying, both to women and to yourself.  There is no "GOOD" way to do it.

If your goal is to "pick up a woman," you have already failed, miserably.

If your goal is to find a compatable partner, there ARE no tricks.  Meet her, be yourself.  If all the women you try to meet are rejecting you, look at YOURSELF to figure out why, not for ways to manipulate them into wanting you.

Keeping in mind the above, the goal IS to find a compatible partner.  I'm saying it doesn't need to be limited to a long term relationship and that's okay. Manipulating women into liking you isn't the mechanism. I know this and i can't tell if you keep using "you" because you mean me, but i'm not a pickup artist.

Like freeky pointed out, these are things are a part of the beast that is pickup.  I'm talking about growing mentally and morally into the kind of person that is attractive to women. So using the kind of techniques employed by the typical pickup artist isn't what i'm talking about and it is only counter productive.  No one disagrees.

As far as there being no Miyagi of the PUA community, that's fine because they are a community of evil doers.  I'm referring to someone who can facilitate the growth of a person into someone that is attractive to women.  He doesn't have to be considered a pickup artist or call himself that.  Going out with the goal of meeting someone great isn't wrong. I call that going out to pickup a woman.  If i should instead call it "going out to meet someone great for the night or for life" let me know.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Salty on July 26, 2012, 10:47:40 pm
I'm talking about growing mentally and morally into the kind of person that is attractive to women.


You do this by being a better person than you were the day before, in every way you can think of.
You do this by going out and challenging yourself to do things you think you can't do.
You do this by being yourself as HARD as you possible can, while doing the above, and trying not to fuck people over.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 10:54:45 pm
I'm talking about growing mentally and morally into the kind of person that is attractive to women.


You do this by being a better person than you were the day before, in every way you can think of.
You do this by going out and challenging yourself to do things you think you can't do.
You do this by being yourself as HARD as you possible can, while doing the above, and trying not to fuck people over.

What you quoted wasn't a question. As for what you said, you can tell these things to someone who fails with women and hope they take your words to heart and consider them and grow. Or like you suggested earlier, learn by trying and failing trying and failing.  Learning with guidance from a good person who is good at it is not wrong.  I'm not talking about learning from an evil PUA who has no value for women.

ETA:  Keep in mind that during the trial and error process, things are learned.  There is nothing inherently bad about this knowledge.  There is nothing wrong with passing this knowledge to others.  I do think that this knowledge should be passed in the form of a lesson someone can grow from and not in the form of a trick.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Salty on July 26, 2012, 10:55:58 pm
Ah, then I've lost track of what's happening ITT.  :lulz:
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 11:03:10 pm
Ah, then I've lost track of what's happening ITT.  :lulz:

The only thing that has happened is that i've had to repeatedly emphasize that manipulation of women is not something i agree with and that there's nothing wrong with trying to get with a woman just dont be a devious prick about it.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Placid Dingo on July 26, 2012, 11:05:25 pm
I think Blackfoots alright.

Look, I got into PUA because it was the first thing I had ever seen that actually broke it down and said 'this is how you approach a woman'. Stellas right when se says men who are good with women don't need it, but it's not a crime to be bad with women.

Now everyone is also right when they say PUA is feral bad shit. But the only other place, honestly, that I've seen that gives genuinely good relationship-how to meet people socially kind of advice is here. So I can appreciate the reason people lean towards PUA. I actually wander into the mystery forum periodically to insult people or offer non-slimy advice to guys who are actually nice guys who just don't understand how to talk to women, and sometimes I actually come across genuinely good advice.

Luna, its easy to say 'be yourself' but for a lot of guys being their natural selves is kind of mumbling and avoiding eye contact while feeling inadequate and feeling ready to be brushed of as soon as some 'jerk' comes by. So things like making eye contact, projecting confidence, looking sharp etc... A lot of guys just don't know how to do this. I'm pretty social and I still barely cope with five minutes of slow talk

I'm not trying to dedend PUA. Everyone here is correct when they characterise it as slimy manipulative sludge water. But I think in this regard Blackfoot is just me a few years back, not really knowing how to deal with a social or romantic situation intuitively, not having anyone else who actually breaks down the process into comprehendible detail. I definately don't mean to their off at you Luna because Be Yourself IS good advice, but to someone who doesn't understand themself or the social process, it's not useful.

Best advice I ever got;
-girls aren't being approached every minute of every day. The only time you will get shot the godawful fuck down for just making conversation is when you're one of many dumb drink guys.
-make eye contact and smile
-project confidence.

That's it. And I'm aware I'm going to sound stupid but it took me YEARS.

Anyway, point is, I don't think Blackfoots a sleazy wannabe pickup artist, I just think that he's still working his stuff out. And actually this forum in particular is full of people who give great advice so it's not a bad place to start.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Salty on July 26, 2012, 11:06:02 pm
Ah, then I've lost track of what's happening ITT.  :lulz:

The only thing that has happened is that i've had to repeatedly emphasize that manipulation of women is not something i agree with and that there's nothing wrong with trying to get with a woman just dont be a devious prick about it.

Well, then...OK!
 :awesome:
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 11:08:25 pm
I'm not talking about learning from an evil PUA who has no value for women.


All PUAs are evil.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Sir Bearington on July 26, 2012, 11:10:02 pm
Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 11:12:32 pm
I think Blackfoots alright.

Look, I got into PUA because it was the first thing I had ever seen that actually broke it down and said 'this is how you approach a woman'. Stellas right when se says men who are good with women don't need it, but it's not a crime to be bad with women.

Now everyone is also right when they say PUA is feral bad shit. But the only other place, honestly, that I've seen that gives genuinely good relationship-how to meet people socially kind of advice is here. So I can appreciate the reason people lean towards PUA. I actually wander into the mystery forum periodically to insult people or offer non-slimy advice to guys who are actually nice guys who just don't understand how to talk to women, and sometimes I actually come across genuinely good advice.

Luna, its easy to say 'be yourself' but for a lot of guys being their natural selves is kind of mumbling and avoiding eye contact while feeling inadequate and feeling ready to be brushed of as soon as some 'jerk' comes by. So things like making eye contact, projecting confidence, looking sharp etc... A lot of guys just don't know how to do this. I'm pretty social and I still barely cope with five minutes of slow talk

I'm not trying to dedend PUA. Everyone here is correct when they characterise it as slimy manipulative sludge water. But I think in this regard Blackfoot is just me a few years back, not really knowing how to deal with a social or romantic situation intuitively, not having anyone else who actually breaks down the process into comprehendible detail. I definately don't mean to their off at you Luna because Be Yourself IS good advice, but to someone who doesn't understand themself or the social process, it's not useful.

Best advice I ever got;
-girls aren't being approached every minute of every day. The only time you will get shot the godawful fuck down for just making conversation is when you're one of many dumb drink guys.
-make eye contact and smile
-project confidence.

That's it. And I'm aware I'm going to sound stupid but it took me YEARS.

Anyway, point is, I don't think Blackfoots a sleazy wannabe pickup artist, I just think that he's still working his stuff out. And actually this forum in particular is full of people who give great advice so it's not a bad place to start.

I'm not working anything out  :argh!:!  I was just trying to speak on behalf of the men we've both been referring to.  Their desire to become successful with women may be misguided, but not inherently wrong.  It's everything; the motive, the execution, and the fallout.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 11:13:30 pm
Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.

 :argh!:

stop it. I'm laughing hysterically.  If you are trolling me i applaud you.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Sir Bearington on July 26, 2012, 11:15:18 pm
One other thing, don't pass up opportunities.

Ive passed up opportunities i would kill most men to have happen again as it only comes back to haunt you and kick you in the balls.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 26, 2012, 11:19:18 pm
 :argh!:
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 11:45:36 pm
I'm not talking about learning from an evil PUA who has no value for women.


All PUAs are evil.

Yes, but I wouldn't use those words exactly.  Moral vacuum, monstrous, pathetic, and sociopathic maybe.


Ah, the lolz of sharing computers.  :lol:
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 11:48:20 pm
Incidentally, I'd like to point out that at least Blackfoot had the stones to post a thread that he KNEW would attract a shitstorm, and then took it to the wall as the conversation changed.

He's wrong, of course.  <--- So are most people.

I'd also like to point out that this illustrates my point about me being the safest ape in the zoo.  I can't reach through the bars.  Blackfoot is still alive, yes?  My Fist O' Doom didn't come crashing out of his monitor and break his body into small bits.

Also, I have NOT stated that Blackfoot is not a people.  I have implied that he is still searching for a uniform, which is the single most common thing humans do, and also a rather nasty trap.

So, yeah.  PD can't hurt you.  Much.  We might harangue you, we might screech and holler, and we might tell you to stop wearing a fucking uniform, but we can't kill you and we won't bullshit you.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 26, 2012, 11:50:03 pm
The worst we can do is strip you of your illusions and then ignore you.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 11:52:34 pm
Yep.  And if being wrong was a crime, I'd be on death row by now.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Freeky on July 27, 2012, 12:00:26 am
Yep.  And if being wrong was a crime, I'd be on death row by now.

:lol: Yeah, me too.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 27, 2012, 12:01:53 am
Incidentally, I'd like to point out that at least Blackfoot had the stones to post a thread that he KNEW would attract a shitstorm, and then took it to the wall as the conversation changed.

He's wrong, of course.  <--- So are most people.

I don't have the energy to put myself outside of what you think is wrong with pickup artists and the games they play.  Just know that i'm not of their ideas.

Quote
I'd also like to point out that this illustrates my point about me being the safest ape in the zoo.  I can't reach through the bars.  Blackfoot is still alive, yes?  My Fist O' Doom didn't come crashing out of his monitor and break his body into small bits.

Also, I have NOT stated that Blackfoot is not a people.  I have implied that he is still searching for a uniform, which is the single most common thing humans do, and also a rather nasty trap.

So, yeah.  PD can't hurt you.  Much.  We might harangue you, we might screech and holler, and we might tell you to stop wearing a fucking uniform, but we can't kill you and we won't bullshit you.

The only thing i'm searching for now is a way to not fall into the rat race or get on the hamster wheel.  Much like many people on this forum or the ones seeking for a way out or the ones that know that there is no way out.  All of us want to buck The Man and push the people who created this fucked up shit off a cliff.  We also don't want to be the people who perpetuate it.  We also want to transform those around us into the kind of people who give a shit and we are also the people who are tired of trying. 

I come on here.  You all do too. We need to do something.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on July 27, 2012, 12:08:32 am
You know what a lot of people find really hot? I mean, if you're basically the type of person they're attracted to, to begin with.

NOT HAVING A FUCKING AGENDA.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Pope Lecherous on July 27, 2012, 12:10:59 am
You know what a lot of people find really hot? I mean, if you're basically the type of person they're attracted to, to begin with.

NOT HAVING A FUCKING AGENDA.

you tell 'em
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Epimetheus on July 27, 2012, 05:35:35 am
FACT:  Within 10 minutes of meeting you, at the outside, a woman has a pretty good idea if she's attracted to you.

Is this an okay generalization? If so, what would be the similar FACT about men?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 27, 2012, 05:44:04 am
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil. I put it in the same category as martial arts.  It may draw people for the wrong reasons and especially draw the wrong kinds of people, but people CAN come out of it better

PUA techniques rely on manipulative games that exploit human insecurities.

Explain to me how anyone can come out of that kind of training a better person, other than by rejecting it?
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 27, 2012, 05:48:00 am
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.

If this is sincere, then thank you.

I have a pretty good track record at coaching insecure, unconfident, socially awkward men to turn it around and not only get laid, but also develop social lives, build support networks, and have truly relational positive relationships, and I think that the PUA tactics do essentially the opposite of that.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 27, 2012, 05:49:45 am
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.

Naw.  You don't respect women at all.

But why would you have to, when Mystery can tell you all about women?  And how to find the busted ones and take advantage of them.

When did i say i was a pick up artist?  I'm not.  I don't attempt to conceal who i am or trick anyone into liking me.  As you can see.  I treat all people with a basic level of respect.  I do respect Nigel.  She's obviously very intelligent and she knows what she's talking about.  She stated one reason she doesn't support PUA systems and it's perfectly legit.

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

There is. It's called "a good therapist" and what a good therapist will do, first and foremost, is teach you how to value yourself so that you are able to present yourself without emotional handicaps in such a way that you are able to value, appreciate, and relate with other people, including the opposite sex.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 27, 2012, 05:55:07 am
I have only one "technique" and that's: never try anything. People know if you're trying. Always.

So much of this stuff is chemistry.

I don't even notice how much I flirt.  :) I am told this by other people. I just act how I feel like acting while giving people a considerable amount of respect unless they've let me know they're not worth it. In which case I can be kind of a dick.

I sort of agree that PUA stuff is like martial arts. In that, when you get right down to it, and you've got some 300lb gorilla about to tear your legs off because you spilled your drink on his lady, martial arts are going to do FUCK ALL to prevent that from happening, by and large.

Have you ever been described as a natural? That kind of response indicates that you have game whether you mean to have it or not  :)  Please don't get caught up in the negative connotations of the word game, i don't doubt you.

I'm sure you've met people that are not the best with women.  (And i'm imagining this is something that has already happened btw) But when you went to help them you didn't teach them PUA tricks/techniques per se, you inspired confidence and promoted positive shit.  Is that far off the mark?

The whole concept of "picking up" men or women has negative connotations in itself, because you "pick up" an object, not a fellow human being. You "meet" or "hook up with" people. You don't "pick them up".
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 27, 2012, 05:57:40 am
I'm talking about growing mentally and morally into the kind of person that is attractive to women.


You do this by being a better person than you were the day before, in every way you can think of.
You do this by going out and challenging yourself to do things you think you can't do.
You do this by being yourself as HARD as you possible can, while doing the above, and trying not to fuck people over.

Annnnnnd THIS!
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 27, 2012, 06:01:24 am
Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.

Good guys end up married, and tend to stay that way. If the marriage doesn't last, they don't stay single for long.

The cliche that "girls don't want nice guys" is bullshit. DAMAGED girls don't want nice guys. And a self-proclaimed "nice guy" never is.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 27, 2012, 06:03:21 am
FACT:  Within 10 minutes of meeting you, at the outside, a woman has a pretty good idea if she's attracted to you.

Is this an okay generalization? If so, what would be the similar FACT about men?

Same fucking thing.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Sir Bearington on July 27, 2012, 08:11:57 am
Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.

Good guys end up married, and tend to stay that way. If the marriage doesn't last, they don't stay single for long.

The cliche that "girls don't want nice guys" is bullshit. DAMAGED girls don't want nice guys. And a self-proclaimed "nice guy" never is.

My point exactly.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Luna on July 27, 2012, 10:58:06 am
Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.

Good guys end up married, and tend to stay that way. If the marriage doesn't last, they don't stay single for long.

The cliche that "girls don't want nice guys" is bullshit. DAMAGED girls don't want nice guys. And a self-proclaimed "nice guy" never is.

This.

Also, genunine "nice guys" who get caught up in something that goes bad, HARD, are the guys who step back, decide, "yeah, fuck that shit," and decide to STAY single until they get their shit back together.

Example: my new guy (which is going spectacularly well, for those who give a shit)...  When his ex-wife bailed on him, he didn't even think about dating until... well, ME.  YEARS later. 

Want the trick to finding a compatible partner?  Stop looking.

Seriously.

Don't look for whatever it is you've been looking for.  Just, stop.

Live your life.  Do what you enjoy.  Find NEW things you enjoy, and ENJOY THE FUCK OUT OF THEM.  Have a good life, and, most of all, be HAPPY that you can do that.

Then, somebody is going to notice, and be attracted, and things will work out.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Sir Bearington on July 27, 2012, 11:03:01 am
Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.

Good guys end up married, and tend to stay that way. If the marriage doesn't last, they don't stay single for long.

The cliche that "girls don't want nice guys" is bullshit. DAMAGED girls don't want nice guys. And a self-proclaimed "nice guy" never is.

This.

Also, genunine "nice guys" who get caught up in something that goes bad, HARD, are the guys who step back, decide, "yeah, fuck that shit," and decide to STAY single until they get their shit back together.

Example: my new guy (which is going spectacularly well, for those who give a shit)...  When his ex-wife bailed on him, he didn't even think about dating until... well, ME.  YEARS later. 

Want the trick to finding a compatible partner?  Stop looking.

Seriously.

Don't look for whatever it is you've been looking for.  Just, stop.

Live your life.  Do what you enjoy.  Find NEW things you enjoy, and ENJOY THE FUCK OUT OF THEM.  Have a good life, and, most of all, be HAPPY that you can do that.

Then, somebody is going to notice, and be attracted, and things will work out.

I am enjoying myself, i couldn't give a shit about getting a partner so far.

If it happens it happens.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: Our Common Enemy on September 15, 2012, 06:50:01 am
You are really putting too much faith in The Conspiracy. It's really not well ordered at all, the left hand does not know what the right is doing.

Thanks for the feedback.  I was talking about a different kind of game.  I'm gonna give more people a chance to read/comment before i can clarify what i'm talking about.  Not because i'd like to preserve the "mystery" (i'm not that kind of douche) but because hardly anyone has seen it and i'm really hoping that someone might know wtf i'm talking about, because that would be a trip.

I think I'm gonna wait until you clarify.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume time is a closed loop and has already happened. Your life has already occurred in the 4th dimension (time) but we can only experience it from moment to moment because we are 3 dimensional creatures passing through a 4th dimensional plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQx9U6awFw

In my poorly written rant, life is predetermined. To play the game is to follow the script.  The problem is our consciousness will not allow us to see it in its entirety, we are not sufficiently evolved.  The Game (capitalized) is a code of conduct that allows you to navigate life and it's challenges successfully.  Deviation from (or lack of knowledge of) this code results in the unhappiness and tragedies in your life that you cause to yourself.  Adherence to the code will bring you through the tragedies that happen in your life that effect you, but were outside of your control.

The Game is a complex code of conduct.  Every possible situation, and even moment, has an appropriate response.  While playing the game your responses cause you to lose or gain points or remain neutral.  We strive to improve situations in our everyday lives but how do we know what the best choice is when the future is not visible to us, much less many possible futures?  We can only imagine the potential outcomes using our human brains and making our best guess. Having faith that the game will bring you through each situation eliminates the fear of making the wrong choices because while you are playing, as complex as any social situation or problem may be, the system is intuitive once you start playing.

So what is this code of conduct that is the answer to all of life's woes and will navigate you successfully through life?  Here's where you facepalm Roger.  I only understand this system while high.  While high i look around at others and how they interact with their subjective realities and the environment (reality) you can just tell if they are versed in the game by how well they improvise the script in accordance with the implicit rules.  Optimal choices are apparent for the most part, even including times when people trying to satisfy personal desires. Whether your personal goals are commonly held as noble pursuits or otherwise, you can achieve them.

This happens every time i smoke marijuana. Laugh if you want Roger, but i'm relatively new to the experience. For some reason it affects me profoundly.  I experience things that i discovered by speaking with others and reading online, are quite uncommon.  Not unique, but pretty rare. For example, besides the game and all it's ridiculousness, when people speak i see subtitles. Maybe i imagine it, but i imagine it hard enough to see it without apparent effort. Physical sensations which are somewhat more common than the previous phenomenon include the feeling that i am hula hooping on the deck of a rocking boat.  Sometimes the sensation is localized and centered to a specific point or region of my body (head, neck, solar plexus, gut, groin) Sometimes it encompasses the entire body.

I know people on this forum prefer to argue about drug policy than speak about personal experiences with drugs, but i'd much appreciate any thoughts on similar experiences and/or criticisms/questions regarding what i've already mentioned.  This is my attempt to create original content and just share and experience with you spags

edited for grammar and typos

Here is the secret of the game:
You were born deaf.

No one told you, because they didn't know or didn't care enough to figure it out. 
You have functioned in this state your whole life, only picking up snatches of what is said and inventing your own rules for a type of rudimentary "lip reading".  This is why formalized rules for interaction appeal to you, and why you're aware of your compensating mechanism most acutely when you're in an altered state of consciousness.

Well, it's not really deafness.  That's just a metaphor. It's autism.
You are HFA.  High-functioning autistic. Aspergers syndrome.  W/e.

As far as interpersonal communication goes, it's more debilitating than being deaf.  Depending who you ask, 56-80% of human communication is non-verbal, and the part of your brain which would normally decode this does not work.  As such, like with lip-reading, you have dedicated another part of your brain toward understanding something from an intellectual perspective which would normally be handled by a dedicated, instinctual mechanism. 

So, there you go.  Life's mysteries laid bare.
You will never be able to connect with another human being like a normal person does.
You are cut off.  Enjoy the existential horror.
Title: Re: i am your ENEMY
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on September 19, 2012, 10:29:43 pm
 :eek:

Genuine or troll is irrelevant. This gave me a perspective I'd never had before. Thanks for sharing.