Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Cain on November 16, 2012, 03:31:39 PM

Title: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Cain on November 16, 2012, 03:31:39 PM
So much, so boring. 

What is more interesting is that Hamas leader Ahmed Jabari was killed only hours after receiving a truce deal from Israel, according to noted peace activist Gershon Baskin (http://www.ipcri.org/files/gbcv.html).

And by "Hamas leader", I of course mean useful Israeli asset (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-killed-its-subcontractor-in-gaza.premium-1.477886).

Anyway.  The media seems to believe a Palestinian rocket attack on Tel Aviv just came out of nowhere, ignoring the fact there was a pattern of provocation in the weeks leading up to said attack, with Israeli raids wounding or killing civilians.  Hamas, being the dumbfucks they are, took the bait and responded in such a way it made them, and not the IDF look like the aggressors.

Israel has been spoiling for a fight for a while now.  One wonders if this is some kind of substitute for military action in Lebanon, Syria or even Iran (which, due to Obama's reelection, are not likely to happen), but at the moment that remains pure speculation.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: LMNO on November 16, 2012, 03:55:04 PM
I have some very pro-Israel friends (no doubt because they're some pretty hardcore Jews), and I keep having to check myself when they start fingerpointing at the Palestinians and hollering, "unprovoked!" 
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Cain on November 16, 2012, 04:04:31 PM
Yeah.  The Palestinians ain't exactly saints either - God knows Arafat let enough terrorists slip the lines and sneak into Israel in the 1990s - but that's rather the point.  No-one's a saint in the Israel-Palestine conflict, and it's utterly ridiculous for any side to pretend otherwise.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on November 16, 2012, 04:08:35 PM
The IDF and Alqassam twitters have been rather amusing to watch. Occasionally the Hamas twitter will respond to some American pro-Israeli in angry broken english.  This is an amazing time to be alive  :lulz:
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 16, 2012, 04:27:58 PM
A plague on both their houses.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: LMNO on November 16, 2012, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 16, 2012, 04:27:58 PM
A plague on both their houses.

Yeah, pretty much that.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on November 18, 2012, 03:06:49 PM
Yeah, meh fest. News keeps showing israeli strikes on "legitimate military targets" which, as far as I can ascertain is a euphemism for "buildings with people in". Basically they seem to be nuking the piss out of the last remaining areas where palestinians are still allowed to live but what do I know?

Is there a happy-phrase for ethnic cleansing or genocide when it's our allies doing it? Friendly holocaust, maybe?
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Internet Jesus on November 18, 2012, 09:20:38 PM
Frolocaust.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Cain on November 18, 2012, 09:30:46 PM
"Population-centric counterinsurgency operations."
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on November 18, 2012, 09:45:45 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 18, 2012, 09:30:46 PM
"Population-centric counterinsurgency operations."

Fuck, that's a good one.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Mangrove on November 19, 2012, 05:17:28 AM
This is what happens when people use mythology and scripture as land deeds and real estate contracts.







Because of Lord Of The Rings, I'm reclaiming parts of New Zealand.....who's with me!!???
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Cain on November 19, 2012, 05:33:01 AM
You have my sword.

And my bow.

And my axe.
Title: On the non-existence of Pakistan...
Post by: Cain on November 19, 2012, 03:07:02 PM
CRITICAL LACK OF SELF AWARENESS ALERT:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/obamawe-are-fully-supportive-of-israels-right-to-defend-itself/

QuoteSpeaking at a joint press conference with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, Obama called for an end to the firing of missiles into Israel by militants inside Gaza, saying "there is no country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders."

:lulz:
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Verbal Mike on November 19, 2012, 06:23:01 PM
:lulz:

From where I'm sitting, it seems like the pattern so far is a repeat of 2008-9 (Operation Cast Lead, in which we killed some 700-1000 civilians.) It works like this: Air Force gets sent in for surgical strikes against Hamas targets. In the first day or two, there are hardly any civilian casualties. Then the more isolated targets have all been reduced to dust and the Air Force begins targeting Hamas targets in densely-populated areas, increasing civilian casualties. Then they get sloppy and murder a whole innocent family because someone didn't double-check they were hitting the right house.

The only difference as far as I can tell, apart from the fact the IDF has not started the imminent ground invasion so far, is that targeting has become a bit more accurate. And I'm not entirely certain of that.
On the other hand, there's the major difference in Gazan missile range. This might not seem like a big deal to all y'all but here in Israel we're already used to ignoring the fuck out of the South from back in the day when all they suffered from was massive unemployment and pollution. The media and the public are treating the rockets on Tel Aviv like they're the first ones that even count. Like shit only just got real.

But on the Israeli public opinion front, there's a massive difference, in that this time, almost *everyone* seems to be apprehensive about the whole thing and outspokenly against a ground invasion. But it seems that Netanyahu is pulling the usual "peace talks" schtick of placing such high requirements that Hamas has no choice but to refuse the ceasefire.

I'm not optimistic about the outcome. Despite the public outcry, this is going to end like it started, as a tragicomic replay of Cast Lead, meaning obscene Pal civilian casualties to a handful of Israeli casualties, meaning continued hostilities on the Gazan border after the end of the massacre, and meaning increased Israeli isolation on the international front. My light at the end of the tunnel is that the elections might pull us a tad to the left this time, rather than to the far right like after Cast Lead.

(I sound detached because I'm trying not to scream. My sister lives in Tel Aviv and I'm going there on Wednesday, like I do every week. A bunch of my childhood friends are already, or are about to be, on Reserve military duty. And I'm very fond of this country and don't want it to become more hellish than it already is. At least I'm not worried about rockets on Jerusalem, where I am; that's not going to become a serious threat.)
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Juana on November 19, 2012, 09:54:58 PM
Hmm, interesting! Thanks, Verb!

Quote from: Cain on November 19, 2012, 03:07:02 PM
CRITICAL LACK OF SELF AWARENESS ALERT:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/obamawe-are-fully-supportive-of-israels-right-to-defend-itself/

QuoteSpeaking at a joint press conference with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, Obama called for an end to the firing of missiles into Israel by militants inside Gaza, saying "there is no country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders."

:lulz:
:lulz: :horrormirth: Oh god.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on November 19, 2012, 09:55:49 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 19, 2012, 09:54:58 PM
Hmm, interesting! Thanks, Verb!

Quote from: Cain on November 19, 2012, 03:07:02 PM
CRITICAL LACK OF SELF AWARENESS ALERT:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/obamawe-are-fully-supportive-of-israels-right-to-defend-itself/

QuoteSpeaking at a joint press conference with Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, Obama called for an end to the firing of missiles into Israel by militants inside Gaza, saying "there is no country on earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders."

:lulz:
:lulz: :horrormirth: Oh god.

:lulz:
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Junkenstein on November 26, 2012, 09:17:23 PM
So the current outlook appears to be a cooling for the moment, with knives still out.

Good time to recruit and reload, I've got a horrible feeling the 3rd (?) Intifada may be moving up a gear.


Mursi seems to be taking some liberties. Is this US backed/authorised for his intercession efforts?


/Crackpot speculation as it's a shitty situation unlikely to resolve favourably in any regard in the near future.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: LMNO on November 27, 2012, 02:17:02 PM
Egypt seems to be taking a lot of credit for the cool-down.  How much did they actually do, and how much are they bullshitting?
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Verbal Mike on November 27, 2012, 04:32:03 PM
I get the impression that Mursi took a very active role and deserves a lot of credit. But then he went and nearly crowned himself dictator so we'll just see how long that lasts...
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Junkenstein on November 27, 2012, 06:27:54 PM
I've got to say, the more I think about it, the more interesting the end of the negotiations must have been. 2 parties agree not to shoot more rockets at each other (Essentially. There's been no real concessions or positive steps for the long term that I can see) and the negotiator decides to pull the "emergency powers" bit.

An unspoken condition that this holds only as long as Mursi is on the scene? The first part of genuine co-operation between the two sides in international trolling?


The idea of both representatives winking at each other then praising his prowess and how he should take charge more appeals to me.

It also amuses me due to the fact it could just be true.

Verbal Mike, More updates from someone dealing directly with the fallout from this would be read with interest, please keep us posted.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: LMNO on November 27, 2012, 06:44:37 PM
As far as Mursi goes, didn't he pull the emergency powers because the majority of the judicial branch was appointed by the previous leader, and due to checks and balances can completely fuck with the new democratic leadership?
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Junkenstein on November 27, 2012, 06:57:55 PM
Indeed, I just find the timing strange.

If I were leading a newly established democratic regime, and there were possible ways to block the disperal of power, that's the kind of thing I'd think about when I took over. You know, making sure your own position is secure and there is a clear path and timetable.


So why not sort this out when Mursi first stepped in? It's a lot easier to take "executive powers" in such times of transition, and with the right PR/backing it's been proved not to be much of an issue in other nations.

When changing an entire society at a fundamental level, I would think that the existing judicial system would have to be largely scrapped to accommodate the breadth of change. This never seems to happen. Strange.
Title: Re: So Israel and Hamas are at it again...
Post by: Cain on November 29, 2012, 10:51:57 AM
So...

http://mondediplo.com/blogs/israel-s-war-for-gaza-s-gas

QuoteOver the last decade, Israel has experienced a growing energy crisis. Between 2000 and 2010, Israel's power consumption has risen by 3.5 per cent annually. With over 40 per cent of Israel's electricity dependent on natural gas, the country has struggled to keep up with rising demand as a stable source of gas is in short supply. As of April, electricity prices rose by 9 per cent, as the state-owned Israeli Electricity Company (IEC) warned that "Israelis may soon face blackouts during this summer's heat" - which is exactly what happened.

The two major causes of the natural gas shortage were Egypt's repeated suspension of gas supplies to Israel due to attacks on the Sinai pipeline, and the near-depletion of Israel's offshore Tethys Sea gas fields. By late April, a trade deal that would have continued natural gas imports from Egypt into Israel collapsed, sending the Israeli government scramblingto find alternate energy sources to meet peak electricity demands. Without a significant boost in gas production, Israel faced the prospect of debilitating fuel price hikes which would undermine the economy.

By late June, Israel was tapping into the little known Noa gas reserve in the Mediterranean off the coast of Gaza. Previously, Israel had "refrained from ordering development of the Noa field, fearing that this would lead to diplomatic problems vis-à-vis the Palestinian Authority", according to the Israeli business daily Globes. The Noa reserve, whose yield is about 1.2 billion cubic metres, "is partly under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority in the economic zone of the Gaza Strip" - but Houston-based operator Noble Energy apparently "convinced" Israel's Ministry of National Infrastructures that their drilling would "not spill over into other parts of the reserve."

But the Gaza Marine gas reserves - about 32km from Gaza's coastline - are unmistakeably within Gaza's territorial waters which extend to about 35km off the coast. Israeli negotiations with the Palestinian Authority (PA) over the gas reserves have stalledfor much of the last decade since their discovery in the late 1990s by the British Gas Group (BG Group). The main reason for the failure of negotiations was Israel's demand that the gas should come ashore on its territory, and at below market price.

The article goes on to explain how the 2008 Operation Cast Lead was driven, in part, concerns about the gas deal brokered by Tony Blair.  Israeli concerns are that by funneling money to the Palestine Authority for gas, the money would end up in Hamas and similar hands, and Israel would effectively be paying to bankroll terrorism against itself.

Also, a cool $4 billion may be influencing the decision process.