There's too much fuck in my head

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, the idea that forums are "better" than Usenet is 100% complete bullshit. The ONLY thing that forums do better than old Usenet is allowing pictures, including emotes, to be posted inline. Usenet was in almost every single way, including ease of use, superior to webforum software in terms of conversation flow and searchability. I would give my fucking eyeteeth for something like Usenet to exist in a readily accessible format. FUCK all of the ISPs for dumping Usenet access, the fuckers.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Also, the idea that forums are "better" than Usenet is 100% complete bullshit. The ONLY thing that forums do better than old Usenet is allowing pictures, including emotes, to be posted inline. Usenet was in almost every single way, including ease of use, superior to webforum software in terms of conversation flow and searchability. I would give my fucking eyeteeth for something like Usenet to exist in a readily accessible format. FUCK all of the ISPs for dumping Usenet access, the fuckers.

The biggest problem with Usenet was that ISP's had to invest server resources and disk resources that they didn't make any money off of. Usage outpaced funding.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Facebook supports the idea/perception/illusion of control for each user. Thats what most people seem to want. Believe me, I've sat through so many discussions, reviews, customers that have researched this shit... and it always boils down to dynamic control.

I disagree that it means they become Facebook. They become a dynamic site...

What the hell does that even MEAN?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Also, the idea that forums are "better" than Usenet is 100% complete bullshit. The ONLY thing that forums do better than old Usenet is allowing pictures, including emotes, to be posted inline. Usenet was in almost every single way, including ease of use, superior to webforum software in terms of conversation flow and searchability. I would give my fucking eyeteeth for something like Usenet to exist in a readily accessible format. FUCK all of the ISPs for dumping Usenet access, the fuckers.

Usenet's still there, and there's still some diehards on it...And everywhere else, there's crashing waves of spambots.

I like the forum format.  If I had to chose between facebook and usenet, though, I'd take usenet.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Facebook supports the idea/perception/illusion of control for each user. Thats what most people seem to want. Believe me, I've sat through so many discussions, reviews, customers that have researched this shit... and it always boils down to dynamic control.

I disagree that it means they become Facebook. They become a dynamic site...

What the hell does that even MEAN?

In a traditional web application we have three layers. Data, Application and Presentation. In the case of this forum, we have a database, we have the SMF application which interacts with the database and we have the presentation layer of SMF which gives us this forum format (as interpreted by your theme).

If we think of a more dynamic application, we would still have three layers, the data layer would be the same, the application layer would be more intelligent and the presentation layer becomes multiple alternative interfaes. In the example of a forum, we still have our MySQL back-end, still storing data in the same way. the appliation layer, however, instead of only knowing how to interat with data for a forum interface, could interact with the data for any number of interfaces. So you could have a 'magazine' interface, a forum interface, an email/newsgroup stlye interface, a wiki interface, a mobile app interface etc etc etc.

So you don't lose the forum, you just gain more ways of interacting with the information. If you like a UseNet style, there ould be a UseNet style interface, while Cain might prefer the Forum style and some person who has no idea what the hell is going on, might enjoy reading content in a 'zine style. Nigel might use a mobile app while at school and if a n00b doesn't understand what a BiP is, the word would be highlighted and if they clik on it, it would show them a wiki style explaination with links to content discussing the BiP.

Then you can start adding other kinds of tools... group chat, for example, which could be included in search results. Instead of chat being a seperate thing... it generates data, which the application can interact with regardless of the presentation tool.

Its not about losing this interface, or turning into Facebook... its about accessing the data in many different ways (dynamic), rather than only having a single interface with a static way of accessing the data. Next generation applications are starting to move to the concept of 'we don't care how you want to interact with the information".

Most people, I think, will be satisfied with Facebook, Twitter and whatever the hell comes out next. Forums will survive, especially those that move to a more dynamic application layer, because its all about the information and providing access to that information however the user wants. Static forums will eventually be home to a small group of faithful users (like Usenet), but we will continue to see the number of users shrink, because its not the best format for all purposes. For example, I tried to write this response from my smart phone, and not only was it hell to read/see the content window I was typing in, but things like backspace, erased characters on the wrong line. As tools to interact with the web increase, different interfaces will work better on those different tools.

Everything about technology is changingto become more dynamic and less structured... even the concept of a relational database (like MySQL) is begining to change. The new HADOOP project for example, takes multiple small servers and connects them together as one large server, with all hard drives in each server becoming part of a single filesystem. Rather than having a huge database, we can simply pass files into the filesystem, then interact with those files just like they were data in a database. Some newer database solutions no longer deal with structured data in hard coded tables.Oracle has a newish solution that has no database on disk, rather the whole thing exists in memory and things like tables/columns etc can be changed on the fly. Most of these changes are for specific situations... but its causing a complete rethink about how to interact with the data at every level.

ETA: Also, I didn't intend to threadjack this from the original topic, if someone wants to split it, I'm ok with that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, the idea that forums are "better" than Usenet is 100% complete bullshit. The ONLY thing that forums do better than old Usenet is allowing pictures, including emotes, to be posted inline. Usenet was in almost every single way, including ease of use, superior to webforum software in terms of conversation flow and searchability. I would give my fucking eyeteeth for something like Usenet to exist in a readily accessible format. FUCK all of the ISPs for dumping Usenet access, the fuckers.

The biggest problem with Usenet was that ISP's had to invest server resources and disk resources that they didn't make any money off of. Usage outpaced funding.

Yeah. It was a superior format for communication and people flocked to it, but it wasn't profitable so they killed it.

God bless America.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, the idea that forums are "better" than Usenet is 100% complete bullshit. The ONLY thing that forums do better than old Usenet is allowing pictures, including emotes, to be posted inline. Usenet was in almost every single way, including ease of use, superior to webforum software in terms of conversation flow and searchability. I would give my fucking eyeteeth for something like Usenet to exist in a readily accessible format. FUCK all of the ISPs for dumping Usenet access, the fuckers.

Usenet's still there, and there's still some diehards on it...And everywhere else, there's crashing waves of spambots.

I like the forum format.  If I had to chose between facebook and usenet, though, I'd take usenet.

Yeah, I peek in at it once in a while. It's pretty much a wasteland now, which makes me sad.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Facebook supports the idea/perception/illusion of control for each user. Thats what most people seem to want. Believe me, I've sat through so many discussions, reviews, customers that have researched this shit... and it always boils down to dynamic control.

I disagree that it means they become Facebook. They become a dynamic site...

What the hell does that even MEAN?

In a traditional web application we have three layers. Data, Application and Presentation. In the case of this forum, we have a database, we have the SMF application which interacts with the database and we have the presentation layer of SMF which gives us this forum format (as interpreted by your theme).

If we think of a more dynamic application, we would still have three layers, the data layer would be the same, the application layer would be more intelligent and the presentation layer becomes multiple alternative interfaes. In the example of a forum, we still have our MySQL back-end, still storing data in the same way. the appliation layer, however, instead of only knowing how to interat with data for a forum interface, could interact with the data for any number of interfaces. So you could have a 'magazine' interface, a forum interface, an email/newsgroup stlye interface, a wiki interface, a mobile app interface etc etc etc.

So you don't lose the forum, you just gain more ways of interacting with the information. If you like a UseNet style, there ould be a UseNet style interface, while Cain might prefer the Forum style and some person who has no idea what the hell is going on, might enjoy reading content in a 'zine style. Nigel might use a mobile app while at school and if a n00b doesn't understand what a BiP is, the word would be highlighted and if they clik on it, it would show them a wiki style explaination with links to content discussing the BiP.

Then you can start adding other kinds of tools... group chat, for example, which could be included in search results. Instead of chat being a seperate thing... it generates data, which the application can interact with regardless of the presentation tool.

Its not about losing this interface, or turning into Facebook... its about accessing the data in many different ways (dynamic), rather than only having a single interface with a static way of accessing the data. Next generation applications are starting to move to the concept of 'we don't care how you want to interact with the information".

Most people, I think, will be satisfied with Facebook, Twitter and whatever the hell comes out next. Forums will survive, especially those that move to a more dynamic application layer, because its all about the information and providing access to that information however the user wants. Static forums will eventually be home to a small group of faithful users (like Usenet), but we will continue to see the number of users shrink, because its not the best format for all purposes. For example, I tried to write this response from my smart phone, and not only was it hell to read/see the content window I was typing in, but things like backspace, erased characters on the wrong line. As tools to interact with the web increase, different interfaces will work better on those different tools.

Everything about technology is changingto become more dynamic and less structured... even the concept of a relational database (like MySQL) is begining to change. The new HADOOP project for example, takes multiple small servers and connects them together as one large server, with all hard drives in each server becoming part of a single filesystem. Rather than having a huge database, we can simply pass files into the filesystem, then interact with those files just like they were data in a database. Some newer database solutions no longer deal with structured data in hard coded tables.Oracle has a newish solution that has no database on disk, rather the whole thing exists in memory and things like tables/columns etc can be changed on the fly. Most of these changes are for specific situations... but its causing a complete rethink about how to interact with the data at every level.

ETA: Also, I didn't intend to threadjack this from the original topic, if someone wants to split it, I'm ok with that.

You basically just wrote me in Greek.  Just saying.

[Left]

Facebook is where my nice Xtian family members all hang out.

If I were to get on Facebook and talk to my friends?  My family would discover the drug using, whip-wielding, pain-loving, diaper-wearing, knob-gobbling, pill-popping, random-fucking sorts of people I choose to inhabit my life.

...Not thinking that would end well.