Free Will: Necessary Delusion?

[LMNO]

Well, at least you caught the reference.

[AFK]

Ignorance actually is bliss.

Is false bliss really bliss?

is there a difference? can you tell?

That's a tricky one really.  It sort of requires getting inside one's head.  Someone who is a supposed devout Christian, apparently blissful in their faith, may be struggling inside with their faith.  Questioning but not wanting the rest of the fellowship in on it. 

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Once you can see what your conditioning is telling you, you can make the choice to go along with it, or not.

It's when you don't see it that you're fucked.

So you're saying implicitly that we're all fucked part of the time?

doesn't sound like a half-bad observation to me, actually.

Damn straight.  In case you forgot there is no escape from the Black Iron Prison

How do we know we haven't deluded ourselves into thinking we've considered our conditioned impulses? 

How do we distinguish from a conditioned and non-conditioned impulse?

[LMNO]

Once you can see what your conditioning is telling you, you can make the choice to go along with it, or not.

It's when you don't see it that you're fucked.

So you're saying implicitly that we're all fucked part of the time?

doesn't sound like a half-bad observation to me, actually.

Damn straight.  In case you forgot there is no escape from the Black Iron Prison

How do we know we haven't deluded ourselves into thinking we've considered our conditioned impulses? 

How do we distinguish from a conditioned and non-conditioned impulse?

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Once you can see what your conditioning is telling you, you can make the choice to go along with it, or not.

It's when you don't see it that you're fucked.

So you're saying implicitly that we're all fucked part of the time?

doesn't sound like a half-bad observation to me, actually.

Damn straight.  In case you forgot there is no escape from the Black Iron Prison

How do we know we haven't deluded ourselves into thinking we've considered our conditioned impulses? 

How do we distinguish from a conditioned and non-conditioned impulse?

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Morning ruined.

[LMNO]

LOL Pineal 23, etc.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm thinking this whole debat ecan be solved by examining the question - If you prick an ignoramus do they feel real pain?

What is bliss? Contentment? Happiness? - retarded kids can smile - are they really happy or some pale retard imitation?

[LMNO]

Of course, this does lead us to the proposition that not only is ignorance bliss, it is also preferrable.

[LHX]

bliss is bliss

ignorance is ignorance



is it enough to know when you are not in a state of bliss?

rather than trying to define that thing that we only get temporary glimpses of?


the ignorance is bliss angle seems to depends on man's inability to create/build/sustain a blissful situation

im not fully convinced of that (yet)

[AFK]

I'm thinking this whole debat ecan be solved by examining the question - If you prick an ignoramus do they feel real pain?

What is bliss? Contentment? Happiness? - retarded kids can smile - are they really happy or some pale retard imitation?

1) The first question doesn't make sense to me.  What does the physiological reaction to pain have to do with ignorance?  

2)  Perhaps, from an observer's perspective it is what you call a "pale retard imitation."  But somehow, I don't think imitation is the right word because that would entail a concious effort to ape something different from what is being truly felt.  And why is it a "pale retard imitation"?  I'm trying to understand why you are characterizing this the way that you are.  

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm just sorta mulling the question over in my mind. From the original 'your fucked' point of view that LMNO posted. I've often wondered if I'd have been better off not knowing the things I know. Like cypher in the matrix - "You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss."

Upshot is I'm going to die at the end of it and, up til then, there's no real meaning that I can discern. Would being a happy idiot be preferable to a tormented wiseman? Course the question is academic - once you open the doors there's no closing the buggers.

[LHX]

i dont know many happy idiots who die comfortably


yall ever talk to a old person whose kids started fighting over their inheritance while he/she was still alive?

ignorance can be perpetuated and postponed, but as them walls close in - people learn a lot in a very short period of time



theres a lot of information in that light

[P3nT4gR4m]

i dont know many happy idiots who die comfortably


yall ever talk to a old person whose kids started fighting over their inheritance while he/she was still alive?

Hell yeah, I'm with you there. When ever I hear about some idiot getting depressed about shit that I can't help thinking is their own fault for buying into or being unable to deal with some delusional byproduct of the machine, I get to thinking I'm the lucky one. It's more those smiley happy, living in a dreamworld of tv talkshows and christian revial meetings - types I'm thinking of here. These people enjoy their life in complete ignorance of what's really going on. I'm not saying some of them aren't suicidally depressed at times but I'm sure there are some who go from cradle to grave just grinning inanely and being extra nice to people.

[AFK]

i dont know many happy idiots who die comfortably


yall ever talk to a old person whose kids started fighting over their inheritance while he/she was still alive?

ignorance can be perpetuated and postponed, but as them walls close in - people learn a lot in a very short period of time



theres a lot of information in that light

Moral of the story:

No one can escape the horrible truths. 

[LHX]

Hell yeah, I'm with you there. When ever I hear about some idiot getting depressed about shit that I can't help thinking is their own fault for buying into or being unable to deal with some delusional byproduct of the machine, I get to thinking I'm the lucky one. It's more those smiley happy, living in a dreamworld of tv talkshows and christian revial meetings - types I'm thinking of here. These people enjoy their life in complete ignorance of what's really going on. I'm not saying some of them aren't suicidally depressed at times but I'm sure there are some who go from cradle to grave just grinning inanely and being extra nice to people.

im telling you yo - their last days are not pleasant


just like anybody who is going thru a stage where their foundation starts to crumble


people eventually end up questioning -- suffering ensures that

Moral of the story:

No one can escape the horrible truths. 

this is horribly (but from a certain perspective - blissfully) true