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Testimonial - Well it seems that most of you "discordians" are little more than dupes of the Cathedral/NWO memetic apparatus after all -- "freethinkers" in the sense that you are willing to think slightly outside the designated boxes of correct thought, but not free in the sense that you reject the existence of the boxes and seek their destruction.

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On the socialization of children

Started by Unkl Dad, June 09, 2010, 08:54:57 PM

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Lies

Quote from: Turdley Burgleson on June 10, 2010, 05:26:33 PM
Quote from: Unkl Dad on June 10, 2010, 07:10:38 AM
Atheism is too much of a commitment.

This isn't a cult?  Do I get my money back?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on June 10, 2010, 03:49:04 AM


There is however, this board. As long as this board exists, or the Discordian wiki exists, Cramulus will continue to exist. There could also be writings about Cramulus in the future, for all we know. We know a bit about Julius Caesar, Socrates, Khufu and Sargon, etc. By this definition, they still exist.

You could go a step even further and say that the way things are have been subtly influenced by everyone. I can account for the major events of my life over the past 11 years as largely stemming from one seemingly small decision I made in the Arboretum. This includes other junctures I have come across in the process, people I've met and interacted with along the way. I have influenced these people, and they have influenced me. So whether I am remembered in 200 years other than a weathered tombstone, I have still contributed to those 200 years of history, obscure or not.

By that definition the easter bunny, santa claus, unicorns and the perfect glass of wine exist.  OK, but I don't think it would be wise to wait for rabbits to start laying colored eggs.

NO REFUNDS!!

Actually, we offer a 300% money back guarantee upon joining our cult.
- So the New World Order does not actually exist?
- Oh it exists, and how!
Ask the slaves whose labour built the White House;
Ask the slaves of today tied down to sweatshops and brothels to escape hunger;
Ask most women, second class citizens, in a pervasive rape culture;
Ask the non-human creatures who inhabit the planet:
whales, bears, frogs, tuna, bees, slaughtered farm animals;
Ask the natives of the Americas and Australia on whose land
you live today, on whose graves your factories, farms and neighbourhoods stand;
ask any of them this, ask them if the New World Order is true;
they'll tell you plainly: the New World Order... is you!

BADGE OF HONOR

Weirdly, though I grew up in Utah, none of my friends talked about going to church and I was never invited to go until I hit high school, by which point it was too late.   :?
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

hooplala

Quote from: BADGE OF HONOR on June 10, 2010, 06:26:28 PM
Weirdly, though I grew up in Utah, none of my friends talked about going to church and I was never invited to go until I hit high school, by which point it was too late.   :?

No magic underwear for you then.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

BADGE OF HONOR

Definitely not.  Sometimes I don't wear any underwear at all.
The Jerk On Bike rolled his eyes and tossed the waffle back over his shoulder--before it struck the ground, a stout, disconcertingly monkey-like dog sprang into the air and snatched it, and began to masticate it--literally--for the sound it made was like a homonculus squatting on the floor muttering "masticate masticate masticate".

LMNO


Unkl Dad

Appreciate all the things to consider!  Thanks yous!

Kai

Quote from: Cramulus on June 09, 2010, 10:04:25 PM


As for the death thing --

NOBODY knows the answer to the question about what happens after you die.

Religion doesn't have an answer, nor does scientific materialism.

Sure we do. A person is the emergent property of neurology. When death occurs, the whole system breaks down, the cells decompose, the atoms are passed to other organic and inorganic states. The person is gone, because the network is gone.

Visit any person with dementia, Alzheimer or Creutzfelt-Jacob's Disease and you'll see the whole thing happening in slow motion. Anything else is a Cartesian duality. It's natural, and understandably horrific given our evolutionary predisposition of avoidance so we maximize our ofspring, and it's going to happen to you upon death.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Telarus

Bucky Fuller would disagree... goddess, his egregore is riding me hard lately:

What is really important... about you or me is the thinkable you  or the thinkable me, the abstract metaphysical you or me, ... what communications we have made with one another" (801.23). Every human being is a unique pattern integrity, temporarily given shape by flesh, as is the knot by rope.

      ... All you see is a little of my pink face and hands and my shoes and clothing, and you can't see me, which is entirely the thinking, abstract, metaphysical me. It becomes shocking to think that we recognize one another only as the touchable, nonthinking biological organism and its clothed ensemble. (801.23)

      Our bodies are physical, but life is metaphysical. Housed in a temporary arrangement of energy as cells, life is a pattern integrity far more complex than the knot or the wave. Remember that all the material present in the cells of your body seven years ago has been completely replaced today, somehow showing up with the same arrangement, color, and function. It doesn't matter whether you ate bananas or tuna fish for lunch. A human being processes thousands of tons of food, air, and water in a lifetime. Just as a slip knot tied in a segment of cotton rope, which is spliced to a piece of nylon rope, in turn spliced to manila rope, then to Dacron rope (and so on) can be slid along the rope from material to material without changing its "pattern integrity," we too slide along the diverse strands supplied by Universe—as "self-rebuilding, beautifully designed pattern integrities." No weight is lost at the moment of death. Whatever "life" is, it's not physical.

      The key is consciousness. "Mozart will always be there to any who hears his music." Likewise, "when we say 'atom' or think 'atom' we are... with livingly thinkable Democritus who first conceived and named the invisible phenomenon 'atom'" (801.23). Life is made of awareness and thought, not flesh and blood. Each human being embodies a unique pattern integrity, evolving with every experience and thought. The total pattern of an individual's life is inconceivably complex and ultimately eternal. No human being could ever completely describe such a pattern, as he can the overhand knot; that capability is relegated to the "Greater Intellectual Integrity of Eternally Regenerative Universe." (2)
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
/||\   Episkopos of the Amorphous Dreams Cabal

Join the Doll Underground! Experience the Phantasmagorical Safari!

Bruno

Are there any Unitarians in your area?
Formerly something else...

Kai

Quote from: Telarus on June 12, 2010, 06:48:10 AM
Bucky Fuller would disagree... goddess, his egregore is riding me hard lately:

What is really important... about you or me is the thinkable you  or the thinkable me, the abstract metaphysical you or me, ... what communications we have made with one another" (801.23). Every human being is a unique pattern integrity, temporarily given shape by flesh, as is the knot by rope.

      ... All you see is a little of my pink face and hands and my shoes and clothing, and you can't see me, which is entirely the thinking, abstract, metaphysical me. It becomes shocking to think that we recognize one another only as the touchable, nonthinking biological organism and its clothed ensemble. (801.23)

      Our bodies are physical, but life is metaphysical. Housed in a temporary arrangement of energy as cells, life is a pattern integrity far more complex than the knot or the wave. Remember that all the material present in the cells of your body seven years ago has been completely replaced today, somehow showing up with the same arrangement, color, and function. It doesn't matter whether you ate bananas or tuna fish for lunch. A human being processes thousands of tons of food, air, and water in a lifetime. Just as a slip knot tied in a segment of cotton rope, which is spliced to a piece of nylon rope, in turn spliced to manila rope, then to Dacron rope (and so on) can be slid along the rope from material to material without changing its "pattern integrity," we too slide along the diverse strands supplied by Universe—as "self-rebuilding, beautifully designed pattern integrities." No weight is lost at the moment of death. Whatever "life" is, it's not physical.

      The key is consciousness. "Mozart will always be there to any who hears his music." Likewise, "when we say 'atom' or think 'atom' we are... with livingly thinkable Democritus who first conceived and named the invisible phenomenon 'atom'" (801.23). Life is made of awareness and thought, not flesh and blood. Each human being embodies a unique pattern integrity, evolving with every experience and thought. The total pattern of an individual's life is inconceivably complex and ultimately eternal. No human being could ever completely describe such a pattern, as he can the overhand knot; that capability is relegated to the "Greater Intellectual Integrity of Eternally Regenerative Universe." (2)

Okay. So I write something now, here. But after death I'M still gone. Cathexis doesn't count, especially to me, the person who my consciousness matters most to.

This "energy pattern" shit is good mystic fiction, pretty similar to the stuff I write, but it has nothing to do with "what happens to consciousness after death?". Unless consciousness is a function of something else other than emergent properties of neural networks, it does not continue after death, it's gone, along with the system it was resting upon. Culture continues, but frankly, I don't think in culture so that shit doesn't matter in this case. And neither do you.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

P3nT4gR4m

 :cn:

You seem quite adamant about this shit, Kai. For someone who prides himself as a 'scientist' you seem to have reached a pretty firm conclusion, based on fuck all much data. Conciousness might do all manner of things after the biology dies. Last I heard nobody had proven anything yet? That's before we even begin to scratch the surface of different popular time models in physics. Either show me some hard data, other than ... something, something, Alzheimer, something... or STFU  :lulz:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Vene

If you change the brain, you change the consciousness, therefore it follows that if you remove the brain, you remove the consciousness. To use the knot analogy, the knot is not the rope, but you can't have the knot without the rope. Consciousness may not necessarily be the brain, but you can't have it without the brain. Life is not the body, it's the processes the body does, but you can't have these processes without the body. You need the hardware to have the software.

Rev. Dr. Narot

I'm not a parent, but as a former youth™, you run a dangerous line suppressing the will of your children. Particularly in denying them church, or any other of those sorts of activities. You're going to end up with a rebellious teenager that's fighting the man™ (that's you) by attending Mormon services on the weekend without your knowledge. Ugh, the horror!
"The only person I hate more than you, is myself, asshole."

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Vene on June 12, 2010, 06:19:32 PM
If you change the brain, you change the consciousness, therefore it follows that if you remove the brain, you remove the consciousness. To use the knot analogy, the knot is not the rope, but you can't have the knot without the rope. Consciousness may not necessarily be the brain, but you can't have it without the brain. Life is not the body, it's the processes the body does, but you can't have these processes without the body. You need the hardware to have the software.

Never takes long to get on the subject of software. So riddle me this - if you send and email to someone, do they receive the same message you sent?

If so why doesn't the email die in transit?

If not - what's the difference?

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Kai

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 12, 2010, 06:29:44 PM
Quote from: Vene on June 12, 2010, 06:19:32 PM
If you change the brain, you change the consciousness, therefore it follows that if you remove the brain, you remove the consciousness. To use the knot analogy, the knot is not the rope, but you can't have the knot without the rope. Consciousness may not necessarily be the brain, but you can't have it without the brain. Life is not the body, it's the processes the body does, but you can't have these processes without the body. You need the hardware to have the software.

Never takes long to get on the subject of software. So riddle me this - if you send and email to someone, do they receive the same message you sent?

If so why doesn't the email die in transit?

If not - what's the difference?

Bad analogy.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish