Grant Morrison @ Disinfocon

[Cramulus]

In case you haven't seen it, here's Grant Morrison's heady talk at Disinfocon: (circa 2000)

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1391124753


it's a little bit rambling because he's coming up on drugs. 

topics covered in the talk:

(1) are wilson, mckenna, crowley, all those psychonauts full of shit? Morrison talks about the experiences he had while testing out their propositions and the revelation that humanity is still in its larvae form.

(2) sigil magic - "it totally works". Morrison relates his experiences with the hypersigil called the Invisibles, and how King Mob reached into reality and changed his life. He explains how to create and charge a sigil, and reccommends that the disbelievers actually try it out to see if it works.

(3) interconnectivity and the nature of the individual

(4) One of my favorite quotes of all time ---

"We made this idea [ego] that we are somehow separated from nature .. bullshit. I read this thing in New Scientist about how we've got to control nature. Bullshit! We are nature. There is nothing on this planet which is not nature. Radio stations are nature.  Atom bombs are nature. Because nature made us to make those things. Either you trust nature or you don't trust nature, and I trust nature."

(5) We're living in an "Apocalypse Culture" which is obsessed with destruction. We created cops to protect us from our own nature, and we venerate terrible figures like John Wayne Gacy. What could be outside of that apocalyptic theater?

(6) Abandon individuality, it's only baggage. It was useful for the last 2000 years of history, but now we have to move into something more meaningful than becoming islands. Upgrade and patch your personality - become a guy who likes hip hop (or whatever), become a guy who you wouldn't even recognize.

(7) Let's think of history as if we're in the victory lap. We survived two world wars and guess what - there was no apocalypse, there was no second coming, no rapture, none of that stuff we've been worrying about, and now we're here together at the dawn after a very long dark age. So now what?

(8 ) Do we want to change things? Do we want to transcend individuality? The first step is to transcend the self. If you like world music, and I think it's shit, I can tap into your love of world music and I can love it now too. Let us become complex creatures, able to take in new personality traits and new ideas, able to adapt and extend our boundaries into what we thought was enemy territory, until there is no Other.

[Eater of Clowns]

Seems characteristic of turn of the millenium optimism.  I'd like to see if he maintains that perspective after a decade nearly unanimously regarded as totally shitty.  It'd be interesting if his ideas remained similar, but with a distinctly 2010 feel.  I mean, not every ten years is a long time, but these ten years were a god damned eternity.

[Doktor Howl]

Not sure I like #6.

[Faust]

Goddamn I love Morrison, even with the crackpot stuff.
Everyone with a Messiah complex should be forced to write comics.

[Doktor Howl]

Also, #7 ignores the very real possibility that we will choke on our own shit in the next 20-50 years.

[Faust]

Heh just noticed grant quoting The Prisoner, I assume cram deliberately labelled the loss of individuality  #6 for the contradiction.

[Doktor Howl]

Heh just noticed grant quoting The Prisoner, I assume cram deliberately labelled the loss of individuality  #6 for the contradiction.

I like my individuality.  What it looks like from #6 & #8  is that it would be a desirable thing to become an homogenous blob.

[Faust]

Also, #7 ignores the very real possibility that we will choke on our own shit in the next 20-50 years.

This was back in 1999, it didn't really become obvious to most that we were approaching the last stages of fucking up the place until mid 2005. That or he is saying you should keep a positive attitude because if the world does choke on its own shit theres not much we can do to stop it.

[Faust]

Heh just noticed grant quoting The Prisoner, I assume cram deliberately labelled the loss of individuality  #6 for the contradiction.

I like my individuality.  What it looks like from #6 & #8  is that it would be a desirable thing to become an homogenous blob.

Grant morrison was/is an ego mainiac, he insterts himself into most of his work, hell he wrote batman as bald guy when he was going it, for him it IS a good goal to examine because of what he would learn about humility.

[Cramulus]

Heh just noticed grant quoting The Prisoner, I assume cram deliberately labelled the loss of individuality  #6 for the contradiction.

I like my individuality.  What it looks like from #6 & #8  is that it would be a desirable thing to become an homogenous blob.

grant's not proposing that we become homogenous blobs, he's proposing that we learn to be comfortable with things which are outside what we consider the self.

When one assembles an identity out of rigid terms, it creates the Other. The existence of categories like "us" and "them" begets the tribalism which will prevent us from really realizing our collective potential.

Grant talks about how it's a shame that he feels a strong kinship with everybody in the room, but that kinship ends when you look at a blowhard like Rush Limbaugh. The Enemy. He wants to make the border fuzzier, to get people to accept that even assholes like limbaugh are people who have a valid reason for their point of view.

Individuality, as it becomes more and more commidified, becomes a limiting factor. I mean, you can develop and refine the list of bands you like, or what kinds of politics you prefer, but all these decisions are pushing us deeper into a niche, a personal rut.


In a way, he's talking about Ego Sickness.

[Doktor Howl]

Heh just noticed grant quoting The Prisoner, I assume cram deliberately labelled the loss of individuality  #6 for the contradiction.

I like my individuality.  What it looks like from #6 & #8  is that it would be a desirable thing to become an homogenous blob.

grant's not proposing that we become homogenous blobs, he's proposing that we learn to be comfortable with things which are outside what we consider the self.

When one assembles an identity out of rigid terms, it creates the Other. The existence of categories like "us" and "them" begets the tribalism which will prevent us from really realizing our collective potential.

Grant talks about how it's a shame that he feels a strong kinship with everybody in the room, but that kinship ends when you look at a blowhard like Rush Limbaugh. The Enemy. He wants to make the border fuzzier, to get people to accept that even assholes like limbaugh are people who have a valid reason for their point of view.

Individuality, as it becomes more and more commidified, becomes a limiting factor. I mean, you can develop and refine the list of bands you like, or what kinds of politics you prefer, but all these decisions are pushing us deeper into a niche, a personal rut.


In a way, he's talking about Ego Sickness.

Okay, I can understand what he's saying.  I am in complete disagreement, however.  Surrendering my likes and dislikes, my love and my hate, simply to break down barriers is a bad thing, IMO, because I view that there is a real reason for those barriers.

[LMNO]

Perhaps he is suggesting that every so often you go out and test those barriers.


A wall with no purpose is a barrier going both ways.

[Doktor Howl]

Perhaps he is suggesting that every so often you go out and test those barriers.


A wall with no purpose is a barrier going both ways.

Sure.  But there are valid purposes for many of those walls.  The example of Rush Limbaugh was brought up, above...I have examined his "opinions" and found them to be so ridiculously mutable (based on which party is in power, etc), that it has become obvious that he is paid to divide the country (along with Beck, Hannity, and a few others on both sides of the aisle). 

As such, he has no validity for his blathering, and attempting to assign validity to his point of view is a waste of time.  Since I only have a certain amount of time on this planet, I don't plan to waste it trying to find non-existent meaning behind his words.

[Elder Iptuous]

i agree with Dok.
i'm keeping my individuality, thankyouverymuch.

further, i think it is good for the gander
there is robustness in diversity, and you can't have diversity without divisions.

that is to say, some utopians talk about our 'full potential' by which i would assume they mean that we most efficiently use our resources, and achieve the greatest control over our environment, and achieve some unity of society.
i believe that efficiency generally comes at the expense of robustness, and on the vector that we are headed, we need all of that we can get.

[Doktor Howl]

that is to say, some utopians talk about our 'full potential' by which i would assume they mean that we most efficiently use our resources, and achieve the greatest control over our environment, and achieve some unity of society.

Ugh.