A few thoughts on the latest round of White Guilt discussions

[AFK]

Give me an example of a bad meme you haven't been able to deflect. 

[Juana]

Sure. I used to body shame skinny women.

[Pæs]

Give me an example of an event you're totally unaware of.

[Freeky]

Give me an example of a bad meme you haven't been able to deflect.

1. Strangers are dangerous, way more dangerous than people you already know.
2.  Hispanics who wear baggy clothes are gang bangers who will probably shoot you as soon as look at you.
3.  Black men will do something bad to you if they have the chance.

There's others probably, but these are the ones I personally am aware of and try my damnedest not to react to.  I realize that your comment was directed at Garbo, but you're simply acting like a supercilious, condescending asshole right now.

[Freeky]

Give me an example of an event you're totally unaware of.

[AFK]

Sure. I used to body shame skinny women.

Why?

[AFK]

Give me an example of a bad meme you haven't been able to deflect.

1. Strangers are dangerous, way more dangerous than people you already know.

That's not prejudice, that's called personal safety.

2.  Hispanics who wear baggy clothes are gang bangers who will probably shoot you as soon as look at you.

Perhaps I would have developed that one if I had grown up in a community with Hispanic people.  I grew up in a sea of French people, as far as the eye could see.

3.  Black men will do something bad to you if they have the chance.

Really?  Why?  Again, I grew up in Maine, which is currently the whitest state in the nation.  But the first black person I met was a girl who was adopted from Kenya.  She was very nice, we actually dated briefly.

[AFK]

Give me an example of an event you're totally unaware of.

Eh, except Garbo and others have talked about a constant effort to battle back bad signal and bad memes they've absorbed.  You kind of have to be aware of that to be able to work against it, unless of course, it's made up and it isn't actually there. 

[Juana]

Give me an example of an event you're totally unaware of.

Sure. I used to body shame skinny women.

Why?

Because I had swallowed part of the idea of what a woman is supposed to look like, and thin, not-curvy bodies didn't fit the picture. Which also came along with the idea that these women had worked to get that way, which was shallow and that they cared more about their looks than their health/brains, which is kind of a shitty assumption, given the kind of pressure women live under everyday.
And mind you, this is even with me growing up in a quasi-feminist household, where my mother made an effort to teach us not to be ashamed if we didn't fit that ideal.

(and yes, as Freeky said, you're being a condescending asshole, but I'll play along for now)

Give me an example of a bad meme you haven't been able to deflect.

1. Strangers are dangerous, way more dangerous than people you already know.

That's not prejudice, that's called personal safety.

2.  Hispanics who wear baggy clothes are gang bangers who will probably shoot you as soon as look at you.

Perhaps I would have developed that one if I had grown up in a community with Hispanic people.  I grew up in a sea of French people, as far as the eye could see.

3.  Black men will do something bad to you if they have the chance.

Really?  Why?  Again, I grew up in Maine, which is currently the whitest state in the nation.  But the first black person I met was a girl who was adopted from Kenya.  She was very nice, we actually dated briefly.

Black fear. Duh. Black men are criminals/rapists/drug addicts/vile evil-doers who will murder you as soon as look at you, according to movies, books, TV shows, the news, etc.

[Juana]

Give me an example of an event you're totally unaware of.

Eh, except Garbo and others have talked about a constant effort to battle back bad signal and bad memes they've absorbed.  You kind of have to be aware of that to be able to work against it, unless of course, it's made up and it isn't actually there. 

The shaming thing was pointed out to me, in a rather public forum. I've since learned to make an effort to think about my thoughts, words, and reactions.

[AFK]

Because I had swallowed part of the idea of what a woman is supposed to look like, and thin, not-curvy bodies didn't fit the picture. Which also came along with the idea that these women had worked to get that way, which was shallow and that they cared more about their looks than their health/brains, which is kind of a shitty assumption, given the kind of pressure women live under everyday.
And mind you, this is even with me growing up in a quasi-feminist household, where my mother made an effort to teach us not to be ashamed if we didn't fit that ideal.

Huh, interesting.  I'd have just figured they had mouse-like metabolisms, like mine, and that was why they were so skinny.  With obese people, I've happened to have known a couple who had some glandular or some other medical issue, I can't remember what it was exactly, and so it was a huge contributor to their weight.  So because of that I wouldn't hazard to automatically assume a fat person is someone who told self-control to fuck off. 

(and yes, as Freeky said, you're being a condescending asshole, but I'll play along for now)

Condescending assholes are people too.  Don't you judge me! 

3.  Black men will do something bad to you if they have the chance.

Really?  Why?  Again, I grew up in Maine, which is currently the whitest state in the nation.  But the first black person I met was a girl who was adopted from Kenya.  She was very nice, we actually dated briefly.

Black fear. Duh. Black men are criminals/rapists/drug addicts/vile evil-doers who will murder you as soon as look at you, according to movies, books, TV shows, the news, etc.

We got like three channels up north so I guess I missed all of that stuff.  I do remember my Gramps, the WW II vet, saying some awful stuff about "The Japs", but somehow it didn't cause me to think every time I saw a Japanese person that they were going to bomb the fuck out of my boats.

[AFK]

I mean, here's the deal, one of the things that drew me to Discordianism is when I read the PD, and came to this section:


http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/56.php
[/size]
[/size]Particularily this passage:
[/size]
        Western philosophy is traditionally concerned with contrasting one grid with another grid, and amending grids in hopes of finding a perfect one that will account for all reality and will, hence, (say unenlightened westerners) be True. This is illusory; it is what we Erisians call the ANERISTIC ILLUSION. Some grids can be more useful than others, some more beautiful than others, some more pleasant than others, etc., but none can be more True than any other.
It was a complete head-nodding experience.  Yes!  It was something I always felt and knew but had just never saw expressed and laid out that way.  And I truly believe there many more out there who hold that same philosophy.  Sorry, this looks all funky, my iPad always seems to fuck up when I cut and paste from other sources. 

[Cainad (dec.)]

Resolving and removing prejudices is not like solving a math problem.

No human being can simply apply their conscious, rational mind and truthfully declare "Having seen the root of this prejudice, I decide that it will not influence my thoughts any more."

Human beings do not possess that degree of control over their brainmeat.

A person CAN, however, consciously realize that their prejudices are irrational/stupid/wrong, and remove as much of that influence as much as possible. It takes time and a willingness to challenge one's instincts and gut reactions.



It's called the Black Iron Prison for a reason.

[Juana]

Because I had swallowed part of the idea of what a woman is supposed to look like, and thin, not-curvy bodies didn't fit the picture. Which also came along with the idea that these women had worked to get that way, which was shallow and that they cared more about their looks than their health/brains, which is kind of a shitty assumption, given the kind of pressure women live under everyday.
And mind you, this is even with me growing up in a quasi-feminist household, where my mother made an effort to teach us not to be ashamed if we didn't fit that ideal.

Huh, interesting.  I'd have just figured they had mouse-like metabolisms, like mine, and that was why they were so skinny.  With obese people, I've happened to have known a couple who had some glandular or some other medical issue, I can't remember what it was exactly, and so it was a huge contributor to their weight.  So because of that I wouldn't hazard to automatically assume a fat person is someone who told self-control to fuck off. 

(and yes, as Freeky said, you're being a condescending asshole, but I'll play along for now)

Condescending assholes are people too.  Don't you judge me! 

3.  Black men will do something bad to you if they have the chance.

Really?  Why?  Again, I grew up in Maine, which is currently the whitest state in the nation.  But the first black person I met was a girl who was adopted from Kenya.  She was very nice, we actually dated briefly.

Black fear. Duh. Black men are criminals/rapists/drug addicts/vile evil-doers who will murder you as soon as look at you, according to movies, books, TV shows, the news, etc.

We got like three channels up north so I guess I missed all of that stuff.  I do remember my Gramps, the WW II vet, saying some awful stuff about "The Japs", but somehow it didn't cause me to think every time I saw a Japanese person that they were going to bomb the fuck out of my boats.

I never had that problem with fat people. And when I say "skinny women", I don't mean people like Shoe Ears, who just have the metabolism of a humming bird, I mean people who are naturally that thin AND have no curves.

It's news (look at how the LA "Riot" was covered), it's CSI (dead, drug-dealing MoC), it's movies (in horror flicks, the useless white girl always lives and PoC die for her), etc.

It's not that you would have learned, necessarily, that Japanese people were going to bomb your boats (and that's a facile example), it's that you could have learned from him that the Japanese are bad, sneaky people.

Resolving and removing prejudices is not like solving a math problem.

No human being can simply apply their conscious, rational mind and truthfully declare "Having seen the root of this prejudice, I decide that it will not influence my thoughts any more."

Human beings do not possess that degree of control over their brainmeat.

A person CAN, however, consciously realize that their prejudices are irrational/stupid/wrong, and remove as much of that influence as much as possible. It takes time and a willingness to challenge one's instincts and gut reactions.



It's called the Black Iron Prison for a reason.

IAWTC

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That's because it felt to me from some of your posts that you agreed with her opinion that everyone is tainted.  And I strongly disagree with that sentiment.

"Tainted" is a weird word to use, IMO. Everyone carries preconceptions, misconceptions, and cultural baggage that, if they examine it, is probably contrary to their personal ideals. Anyone who claims they don't is claiming to be a perfect person, which is something I don't believe is possible, and claiming to be a perfect person seems like a great big enormous warning sign of someone with some kind of massive delusional personality disorder.