YOU AND I ARE BUT JUICE pt III

[LMNO]

and who says you will die in the forest over such minor issues?  As our species progressed we learned how to heal ourselves and deal with the issues we faced.  And that IS the beauty of todays technology.  My hubby lived in the Gila for two years with only random trips into town for supplies (lucky bastard).  He didn't want for a hot shower cos he had natural mineral hot springs.  Where he could sit and play his game boy.  Naked.  While smoking a j and whatever.

So, you're proposing that SOME people go back to the forest and live in blissful harmony, while OTHERS stay in the nasty, brutal city where they can produce and develop the technology needed for the bliss-ninny's survival?


I know which team I want to be on.







Edit to add "city".

[cheeseball]

And you will have to excuse me,
I am, after all, elbow deep in The Once and Future Goddess,
which although informative and having many wonderful photos and symbols,
is well know to be highly over romanticized and I hold every right to enjoy it while I'm in it!
I'll get to the down and dirty when I'm finished...

and who says you will die in the forest over such minor issues?  As our species progressed we learned how to heal ourselves and deal with the issues we faced.  And that IS the beauty of todays technology.  My hubby lived in the Gila for two years with only random trips into town for supplies (lucky bastard).  He didn't want for a hot shower cos he had natural mineral hot springs.  Where he could sit and play his game boy.  Naked.  While smoking a j and whatever.

So, you're proposing that SOME people go back to the forest and live in blissful harmony, while OTHERS stay in the nasty, brutal where they can produce and develop the technology needed for the bliss-ninny's survival?


I know which team I want to be on.

I think that if we all ran naked, flocking back to the forest in a stampede,
1.) wouldn't solve anything
2.) overpopulate the forest
3.) cause considerably more problems

Like everything else, cultural change is a process.  It's a shift on collective consciousness.  If EVERYONE returned to the forest RIGHT NOW many would die and a group of canibals would form and there would be a whole bunch of people dying from thier foot fungus.

Although I realize its much fun to pick on the new girl, common sense is still a necessity.

[LMNO]

Please understand we're not picking on you.  This is the standard process of vetting new ideas.


You still haven't answered the question of how to balance the production of technology needed to survive in the forest, and actually living in the forest.

[cheeseball]

Well, in my opinion...
I think there is a cultural shift happening now
as represented by the "green movement."
But there are SO many people...
Some will return to the wilderness, some with and some without technology.
Some will stay in "civilization" and continue on with their pursuit of technology.
Best case senerio is each group will benefit from the other
(cleaner air in the cities from the work done in the wilderness)
and (creature comforts for those in the wilderness from those in the cities)
just one example.

And, as always,
best case senerio is that all the assholes who are power hungry and trying to get rich at everyone elses expense
and who are trying to control the masses like friggin sheep herders
of course
would die out or be killed off.

I don't have all the answers but mushrooms of the magical variety might help...

[Thurnez Isa]

I spent a ton of time in the wilderness so can safely say that those who return will be more or less dead in a year
the small survivors will grow jealous and try to reenter the cities, and if denied massacre those city dwellers they can find
it will be like Africa

[Thurnez Isa]

Don't have all the answers but mushrooms of the magical variety might help...

FUCK YOU 50 POST RULE I ACTUALLY FOLLOW

[cheeseball]

I spent a ton of time in the wilderness so can safely say that those who return will be more or less dead in a year
the small survivors will grow jealous and try to reenter the cities, and if denied massacre those city dwellers they can find
it will be like Africa

If we couldn't survive in the wilderness then our species wouldn't exist. 

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?
The one little band of people would meet another little band of people with different skills who could contribute to the group and make good company.  Then they would meet more and more
until they essentially built the very thing they were trying to escape.

As was said in the beginning
We are after all social creatures

[Thurnez Isa]

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?

1) mortality rates would shoot through the roofs
2) Those who stick to their hippie ideals will die out or begin massacring each other when they start starving and realize the real world aint rainbows and sunshine (NO order can be maintained without food)
3) if there is anyone left those who get the river beds and furtile land will have to be prepared to defend it from those in the denser woods
4) it would take thousands of years before the mortality rate drops and levels and that will only occure by the river beds where people can actually create some food
5) those by the river beds will outgrow the river beds and in the long run overrun those in the woods, pushing them back and causing them to be irrelevent
6) when two societies meet they will either come to agreement (IE borders) or start killing each other

[Thurnez Isa]

oh plus if any time someone who didn't suscribe to your hippie nightmare wanted something like a good fishing hole or some farmland
they would just roll in the tanks and take it



"but I was fishing there?"

"Now you have the memories Moonbeam. But don't worry when influzensa season rolls along they wont last long."

[Triple Zero]

Best case senerio is each group will benefit from the other
(cleaner air in the cities from the work done in the wilderness)

how exactly do people in the city benefit from hippies in the wilderness smoking joints naked next to a hot spring playing on their gameboys?

srsly, tell me how, because if i can get someone to pay me for doing that, i don't mind playing tetris for a couple of hours a day

[cheeseball]

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?

2) Those who stick to their hippie ideals will die out or begin massacring each other when they start starving and realize the real world aint rainbows and sunshine (NO order can be maintained without food)

Are you one of those people who think food comes from the supermarket?  Even a child can maintain a garden, and there are many edible plants growing wild that most people don't know about because they are sadly uninformed.

[cheeseball]

how exactly do people in the city benefit from hippies in the wilderness smoking joints naked next to a hot spring playing on their gameboys?

srsly, tell me how, because if i can get someone to pay me for doing that, i don't mind playing tetris for a couple of hours a day
[/quote]

Well, to start off with, did you know that one acre of marijuana puts off as much oxygen as ten acres of rain forest?  No joke.  I think I'd start there, personally.  Hemp is one of the stronges natural fibers, though not readily available to the masses.  Hemp seeds have all but one of the essential amino acids that the human body needs.  And, oh yeah, people are so hard pressed to find alternate fuels so as not to be raped at the gas pump, well, there could be an anwer to that in the equasion as well.

And our happy little city folk keep using up all our natural resources, who do you expect is going to go get their hands dirty trying to replenish the Earth where it's been raped again and again?  The people who think their dinner naturally appears in a baggy in the frozen food section of the supermarket?
And it's already been seen time and again: the ignorant pump their bodies full of chemicals and processed foods until, lo and behold, they end up with cancer or something equally as devistating.  Half go get "professional medical help" and most die in the hospital at the hands of an idiot MD with a God complex, or the others look into alternative healing: acupuncture, herbal remedies, medical intuitives, and a vast variety of other things and often find the root problem and heal themselves. 
Who do you think studies these things?  The vast consumer society just waiting for the latest i-pod to come out, or those "hippies" in the forest trying to reconnect with the earth from whence we came?

[Nast]

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?

2) Those who stick to their hippie ideals will die out or begin massacring each other when they start starving and realize the real world aint rainbows and sunshine (NO order can be maintained without food)

Are you one of those people who think food comes from the supermarket?  Even a child can maintain a garden, and there are many edible plants growing wild that most people don't know about because they are sadly uninformed.

It know that. I have a small garden, and like to grow a few things. But all of those growing things require an assload of water, compared to the nature amount of rainfall we get (which is close to about none). All that water that provides a "natural and healthy" food source comes from the exploitation and damming of a lake a few miles to the north, probably at the expense of many species and wildlife.
There are just some areas that are not capable of sustaining agriculture without massive interference.

You say that people could live off of wild plants, but there would never be enough to sustain a large population without some people starving, or immediately consuming it.
And people would still end up killing each other. Even American Indian tribes, who practiced sustainable agriculture and foraging waged war with each other on a regular basis. They were still human, after all.

Humanity will always be at constant struggle with its natural environment, simply because the current resources will never be able to meet its needs for what it considers a happy, fulfilling lifestyle. 

[Cain]

You say that people could live off of wild plants, but there would be be never enough to sustain a large population without some people starving

And therein is the most important objection.

[cheeseball]

Sad fact of the matter is even if those who wanted to escape civilization did and went out to live in a more simple way, what would happen?

2) Those who stick to their hippie ideals will die out or begin massacring each other when they start starving and realize the real world aint rainbows and sunshine (NO order can be maintained without food)

Are you one of those people who think food comes from the supermarket?  Even a child can maintain a garden, and there are many edible plants growing wild that most people don't know about because they are sadly uninformed.

It know that. I have a small garden, and like to grow a few things. But all of those growing things require an assload of water, compared to the nature amount of rainfall we get (which is close to about none). All that water that provides a "natural and healthy" food source comes from the exploitation and damming of a lake a few miles to the north, probably at the expense of many species and wildlife.
There are just some areas that are not capable of sustaining agriculture without massive interference.

You say that people could live off of wild plants, but there would be be never enough to sustain a large population without some people starving, or immediately consuming it.
And people would still end up killing each other. Even American Indian tribes, who practiced sustainable agriculture and foraging waged war with each other on a regular basis. They were still human, after all.

Humanity will always be at constant struggle with its natural environment, simply because the current resources will never be able to meet its needs for what it considers a happy, fulfilling lifestyle. 

You make an incredible point.  I respect that.