ATTN Nigel

[Cain]

I still have to read that.  Though I may start, since it is Halloween soon...

[Triple Zero]

My thoughts about ghosts are mainly formed by this book The Hollow Man.
Wherein Mind is a holographic pattern, the brain is the holographic projector and you save an imperfect copy of every person you get to know, the better you know them the better the copy.
Ghosts can then be considered remnants of lost copies of people, imaginary or real.
If for example you have a recurring dream for several years that someone is breaking into your house and later forget you ever had those dreams, parts of the copy can return as the sound of someone opening your door and walking into your house.

That sounds reasonable, but doesn't explain why they show up when the people that never had a memory about these things still claim to experience ghosts.

Unless the holographic thing also affects non-living things, which makes it sound a lot less reasonable.

Additionally, I never once experienced a ghosting.

The weirdest inexplicable thing I ever experienced is that at some point I noticed I had two copies of the first CD I ever bought. It was the first I ever bought, which was a big deal, so I wouldn't buy it again. And none of my friends even remotely liked Happy Hardcore so I couldn't have accidentally packed their copy or anything. THIS IS WEIRD. But never ghosts....

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My thoughts about ghosts are mainly formed by this book The Hollow Man.
Wherein Mind is a holographic pattern, the brain is the holographic projector and you save an imperfect copy of every person you get to know, the better you know them the better the copy.
Ghosts can then be considered remnants of lost copies of people, imaginary or real.
If for example you have a recurring dream for several years that someone is breaking into your house and later forget you ever had those dreams, parts of the copy can return as the sound of someone opening your door and walking into your house.

That sounds reasonable, but doesn't explain why they show up when the people that never had a memory about these things still claim to experience ghosts.

Unless the holographic thing also affects non-living things, which makes it sound a lot less reasonable.

Additionally, I never once experienced a ghosting.

The weirdest inexplicable thing I ever experienced is that at some point I noticed I had two copies of the first CD I ever bought. It was the first I ever bought, which was a big deal, so I wouldn't buy it again. And none of my friends even remotely liked Happy Hardcore so I couldn't have accidentally packed their copy or anything. THIS IS WEIRD. But never ghosts....

One possible explanation for experiencing "ghosts" that are unlike anything you've experienced before is that your mind makes up a scenario, in, say, a dream, or perhaps a composite of things from books or movies, and then generates it as an entire scene. If it replays it enough times, you then have the foundation for projecting utterly new "ghosts".

That wouldn't explain why different people can have the same experience in the same place without knowing about each others' experiences, but it is one possibility. That, or somehow physical objects are capable of storing "recordings" and playback can be triggered by certain things like time of year or time of day.

I mean, it's all pure speculation anyway.

[Triple Zero]

It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't believe in ghosts as a supernatural phenomenon, but I do believe in them as a manifestation of KORROK THE SLAVEMASTER.

If the JDatE movie is even half as good as the book, you'll all do the same pretty soon.

I never finished reading that. What the hell. I need to go find my copy...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?

Why not?

[Triple Zero]

It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?

Why not?

No you're right it does.

But that also means you're making it up from a collated thing from experiences and movies etc?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It also doesn't explain your story about the footsteps, does it?

Why not?

No you're right it does.

But that also means you're making it up from a collated thing from experiences and movies etc?

If that speculation were true, it would mean that my brain is actually physically receiving signals that it interprets as those sounds. And when I asked my husband if he heard it, the power of suggestion, especially with a sleepy man in the middle of the night, would probably be enough to make him think he had.

[Epimetheus]

Wait so by this recording concept, scary movies / ghost TV shows actually generate more ghosts through all the viewers! AHHHH

[Telarus]

Wait so by this recording concept, scary movies / ghost TV shows actually generate more ghosts through all the viewers! AHHHH

Well, they definitely generate more ghost hunters.


I'm open to the possibility that some of the 'things we perceive out there' are actually our mind layering information from various feedback loops onto our conscious experience (it's my current working model for 'chi'). When working with that model, tho, I don't think we can limit ourselves to a binary 'purely external sense-data source' vs 'purely internal representation outwardly projected' choice.

It's probably some combination of the two (if our model is accurate).

As to the idea of 'holographic personality copies', I think that this line from an interview between Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett sums that up best:

Neil Gaiman: Did you really say in a previous interview that you'd like to be like Sam Vines? Why?

Terry Pratchett: I don't think I actually said that, but you know how it is and 'how it is' changes as you get older. The author can always delve into his own personality and find aspects of himself with which he can dress his characters. If you pushed me I would say that ever since I stood up and talked about my Alzheimer's I have been a public figure; I visited Downing Street twice, wrote angry letters to the Times, got into debates in the House of Commons, and generally became a geezer to the extent that I sit here sometimes bewildered and think to myself, "Actually, your job is to sit here writing another book. Changing the world is for other people . . ." and then I come back to myself with, "No it isn't!" And so, bearing in mind that these days, people call a kid from the council houses "Sir" allows me to create a mindset for Vimes. 

Neil Gaiman: When you put your Vimes-writing head on, is there a difference in the way you view the world to, say, when you're in your Rincewind-writing head, or your Granny Weatherwax-writing head?

Terry Pratchett: Oh, yes, surely you know how it is. Once you have your character sitting right there in your head, all you really need to do is wind them up, put them down, and simply write down what they do, say, or think. It really is like that. It verges on the weird; you know you are doing the thinking, but the thinking is being driven by the Sam Vimes module. There is also a fully functioning Tiffany Aching module, too, which is rather strange.

I don't necessarily agree that it's a 'holographic' function, but the behavior is there to be used (much like we as humans have co-opted our brain's taste-network to help is make moral decisions about imagined actions).

[Reginald Ret]

Wait so by this recording concept, scary movies / ghost TV shows actually generate more ghosts through all the viewers! AHHHH

Well, they definitely generate more ghost hunters.


I'm open to the possibility that some of the 'things we perceive out there' are actually our mind layering information from various feedback loops onto our conscious experience (it's my current working model for 'chi'). When working with that model, tho, I don't think we can limit ourselves to a binary 'purely external sense-data source' vs 'purely internal representation outwardly projected' choice.

It's probably some combination of the two (if our model is accurate).

As to the idea of 'holographic personality copies', I think that this line from an interview between Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett sums that up best:

Neil Gaiman: Did you really say in a previous interview that you'd like to be like Sam Vines? Why?

Terry Pratchett: I don't think I actually said that, but you know how it is and 'how it is' changes as you get older. The author can always delve into his own personality and find aspects of himself with which he can dress his characters. If you pushed me I would say that ever since I stood up and talked about my Alzheimer's I have been a public figure; I visited Downing Street twice, wrote angry letters to the Times, got into debates in the House of Commons, and generally became a geezer to the extent that I sit here sometimes bewildered and think to myself, "Actually, your job is to sit here writing another book. Changing the world is for other people . . ." and then I come back to myself with, "No it isn't!" And so, bearing in mind that these days, people call a kid from the council houses "Sir" allows me to create a mindset for Vimes. 

Neil Gaiman: When you put your Vimes-writing head on, is there a difference in the way you view the world to, say, when you're in your Rincewind-writing head, or your Granny Weatherwax-writing head?

Terry Pratchett: Oh, yes, surely you know how it is. Once you have your character sitting right there in your head, all you really need to do is wind them up, put them down, and simply write down what they do, say, or think. It really is like that. It verges on the weird; you know you are doing the thinking, but the thinking is being driven by the Sam Vimes module. There is also a fully functioning Tiffany Aching module, too, which is rather strange.

I don't necessarily agree that it's a 'holographic' function, but the behavior is there to be used (much like we as humans have co-opted our brain's taste-network to help is make moral decisions about imagined actions).

As many times before, some of my favourite writers said it ten times clearer than i ever could
I am going to reread the hollow man the moment i find it again (my library is spread over a couple of houses, i'm pretty sure this one is at my mom's).

[Cain]

Tonight is the night!

I would stay up, only, I'm working tomorrow (actually working, as opposed to "being on call until 9pm, doing an hour of work and going to bed").

[Jean-Lustine d'Hadamard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEK17FdSMY

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's totally the night! I have not purchased a sound recording device, but I am going to try to stay up and see if I hear it this year. It's also almost time for the VEHICLE OF CACOPHONY!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEK17FdSMY

WEIRD SHIT MAN