What is Chi?

[Kai]

If you stripped Feng Shui of its mystical trappings, it would pretty much be culturally bound interior design.  I mean, personally, I favour the Scandanavian open plan style to the traditional Chinese look (though occasionally it can be pulled off in a way I not only appreciate, but is very pleasing to the eye), so really it is a matter of aesthetic inclination and what makes someone feel comfortable, relaxed and revitalized.

On the other hand there are universal human aesthetics dealing with objects within space, corridors and whatnot. I'll refer again to ancestoral environment, the savannah, which has evenly spaced objects and clear corridors. That at least, seems to be clear for any human design.

True, but many smaller aspects are culturally transmitted as well.

It's like how peoples music taste can differ, despite shared conceptions of music across vast geographical areas.

Yes. So, we can agree there are universal (genetic?) aspects and culturally bound and transmitted aspects. All cultures have music but the scales are different. Where and how did music originate? That will tell me of the human universals related to music. This reminds me of EO Wilson's comment on the complexity of abstract images and people's reaction to them, that there is a peak level of complexity that people find most pleasing, that beyond that level it's too busy and below that level too boring.

[Triple Zero]

That was excellent.

So, Chi is an intuitive metaphor for psychosomatics, just as feng shui is an intuitive metaphor for architectural design. I could know how each neuron connects and what their gated channels, I could calculate all the angles and shapes in a room, but it's faster and intuitive to visualize energy flow, or how a dragon might live in that space (at least for the Chinese). There's a level of direct (mystic? in the sense that mysticism is direct connections rather than through intermediaries) connection to the problem which can be far more effective and close at hand than the roundabout way of other methods.

Yeah. I got a few rules of thumb (ok, just one) from Feng Shui, and it works exactly as that. An intuitive metaphor (useful term, that). When I try to figure "what's wrong with this room/place/space?" and I can't quite put my finger on it, I try to imagine what an energy flow would do (apparently it moves kinda like a stream) and usually when it has either "dead spots" or just moves straight from one entrance to the exit, that is (part of the) problem. Also, if it sort of twhirls in corners and such, that's a good place to put a chair or some other thing you can be "at rest" (even if it's just the place in your kitchen where you'd stand cutting your food). Cause apparently it's good to stay in such a twhirly place.

So, yeah, that bit I learned from Feng Shui and it worked pretty well. You can imagine my disappointment when I set out to learn more about it and I got a whole load of magical bullshit [however, I just assume I haven't picked up the right book yet. My gf has one other that sounded promising]

[Cramulus]

I agree, Zilch. And I feel like a lot of feng shui is lost on me, as a lot of it is tied into symbols that westerners are not familiar with. On a similar note, I had an i ching reading the other day which advised me to seek things in the south and west, avoid things in the north and east. And this doesn't make any sense unless you're aware of what each cardinal direction means within that culture. When I finally unraveled the mystery, it ended up being pretty solid advice.

[Requia ☣]

I've been talking with some people of a different martial arts background than me, and it seems ki (in addition to what is being discussed right now), acts as a placeholder for things like how to not break your hand throwing a punch, or putting the momentum of your body behind a blow.

[Triple Zero]

One thing in the promising-sounding book about Feng Shui was in fact about the wind directions, that since in our culture we are not constantly aware of these directions, you can also apply them as relative to the entry to your house.

BTW in case you didn't know it yet, or perhaps stumbled across it before you became acquainted with I-Ching, deoxy.org has a very useful I-Ching "calculator":

http://deoxy.org/time/d2k/ching/icalc.htm

---

Requia, speaking of that, did you see TMM / Nick Dipple's Slow Motion Destruction videos? The second one has this slow-mo part of a martial arts guy smashing a brick with his hand, but in the slow motion you see his entire hand flubber and ripple, and I can't possibly imagine how he did not hurt himself badly doing that.
I wonder if he did, in which case it was probably a mistake (happens), and then what a "proper" brick smashing looks like in slow motion.

Or maybe that's OT.

[Kai]

I've been talking with some people of a different martial arts background than me, and it seems ki (in addition to what is being discussed right now), acts as a placeholder for things like how to not break your hand throwing a punch, or putting the momentum of your body behind a blow.

That doesn't seem like how I'm using it. I'm not even sure how I would qualify that use.

[Requia ☣]

It's not how I've ever used the term either, its always been a mental thing, a way to 'get in the zone'.

[Kai]

It's not how I've ever used the term either, its always been a mental thing, a way to 'get in the zone'.

Well, feng shui is full of bullshit, so why not ki focusing in martial arts? *shrug*

[Telarus]

I've been talking with some people of a different martial arts background than me, and it seems ki (in addition to what is being discussed right now), acts as a placeholder for things like how to not break your hand throwing a punch, or putting the momentum of your body behind a blow.

That doesn't seem like how I'm using it. I'm not even sure how I would qualify that use.

Intuitive, unified, all-over-the-body-at-once models of intentionality (visualization/methods-of-attention) allow greater synergy between all of the mechanics of the force-bearing muscles and bones.

Your weight bearing leg and how you shift your center of gravity as you punch has much more to do with maximum momentum than your arm muscles. Arms muscles are to amplify and target the force you generate by charging your center of gravity forward.

Trying to actively think about these two things with separate models while in the moment (I've got to visualize a glowy blob at my hips thrusting forward, but then focus on my target and punch efficiently) actually degrades the synergy between them.

Visualizing ki flowing up through your legs and out your arm, and then being able to hallucinate how the flow 'feels' as you shift your center of balance and punch puts the unity of motion primary, and lets your subconscious handle the individual tweaking and tuning of muscles. The sense data that is turning into this sense of flow is (along with other environmental things) your muscle-force opposing gravity. As you bring your hips forward in stance, the body converts some of the force which was keeping you upright into forward momentum for your fist. Your spine and shoulder stabilize this force and your arm whips out and multiplies it.

Also, many of the more effective maneuvers involve changing force vectors (i.e. not attacking in a straight line, the wave cut as opposed to the chop cut, etc, etc).

This is one of the secrets behind Bruce Lee's 1-inch punch.

I'd recommend watching the Time-Warp episode with the Katana master (S01 E07). He demonstrated (but didn't explain fully) the non-linear force trick by push-throwing a guy into a chair.

Ok, I couldn't find a clip of that, but you should be able to see similar all-over-at-once synergenic action in these clips:

Hip driven punch: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-martial-arts-punch-chest.html

Catching an arrow: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-arrow-catch.html

Dog Brothers Kali-Escrima: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-stick-fighting.html

And, just cause it's cool, a kali stick hitting a coconut: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-kali-vs-coconut.html

It's much more clear in that clip in Ep 7, tho, if you can find it.

[Cain]

I've been talking with some people of a different martial arts background than me, and it seems ki (in addition to what is being discussed right now), acts as a placeholder for things like how to not break your hand throwing a punch, or putting the momentum of your body behind a blow.

That doesn't seem like how I'm using it. I'm not even sure how I would qualify that use.

That could be "external ki"...it rings a bell, at least.  I know the author I referenced earlier on distinguishes between a "hard", external kind of ki and a ki proper....but I don't have access to that book for another three weeks at least.

[Kai]

I've been talking with some people of a different martial arts background than me, and it seems ki (in addition to what is being discussed right now), acts as a placeholder for things like how to not break your hand throwing a punch, or putting the momentum of your body behind a blow.

That doesn't seem like how I'm using it. I'm not even sure how I would qualify that use.

Intuitive, unified, all-over-the-body-at-once models of intentionality (visualization/methods-of-attention) allow greater synergy between all of the mechanics of the force-bearing muscles and bones.

Your weight bearing leg and how you shift your center of gravity as you punch has much more to do with maximum momentum than your arm muscles. Arms muscles are to amplify and target the force you generate by charging your center of gravity forward.

Trying to actively think about these two things with separate models while in the moment (I've got to visualize a glowy blob at my hips thrusting forward, but then focus on my target and punch efficiently) actually degrades the synergy between them.

Visualizing ki flowing up through your legs and out your arm, and then being able to hallucinate how the flow 'feels' as you shift your center of balance and punch puts the unity of motion primary, and lets your subconscious handle the individual tweaking and tuning of muscles. The sense data that is turning into this sense of flow is (along with other environmental things) your muscle-force opposing gravity. As you bring your hips forward in stance, the body converts some of the force which was keeping you upright into forward momentum for your fist. Your spine and shoulder stabilize this force and your arm whips out and multiplies it.

Also, many of the more effective maneuvers involve changing force vectors (i.e. not attacking in a straight line, the wave cut as opposed to the chop cut, etc, etc).

This is one of the secrets behind Bruce Lee's 1-inch punch.

I'd recommend watching the Time-Warp episode with the Katana master (S01 E07). He demonstrated (but didn't explain fully) the non-linear force trick by push-throwing a guy into a chair.

Ok, I couldn't find a clip of that, but you should be able to see similar all-over-at-once synergenic action in these clips:

Hip driven punch: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-martial-arts-punch-chest.html

Catching an arrow: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-arrow-catch.html

Dog Brothers Kali-Escrima: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-stick-fighting.html

And, just cause it's cool, a kali stick hitting a coconut: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-kali-vs-coconut.html

It's much more clear in that clip in Ep 7, tho, if you can find it.

So, simply focused psychosomatics?

[Kai]

I've been talking with some people of a different martial arts background than me, and it seems ki (in addition to what is being discussed right now), acts as a placeholder for things like how to not break your hand throwing a punch, or putting the momentum of your body behind a blow.

That doesn't seem like how I'm using it. I'm not even sure how I would qualify that use.

That could be "external ki"...it rings a bell, at least.  I know the author I referenced earlier on distinguishes between a "hard", external kind of ki and a ki proper....but I don't have access to that book for another three weeks at least.

Ki...extended? I can see the metaphor, but I'm wondering how that ties into the general system of body-mind coordination.

[Cain]

I'd have to read the book again to get the specifics.  Someone PM me on, say, September 3rd and I'll look it up.

[Telarus]

Something relevant that I found (ask me to comment on anything that doesn't seem clear, keep in mind I'm learning these metaphors as we go as well).

http://www.aikidofaq.com/practice/ki_sayings.html

FOUR MAJOR PRINCIPLES TO UNIFY MIND AND BODY

   1. Keep one-point.
   2. Relax completely.
   3. Keep weight underside.
   4. Extend Ki.

...

  Most people can see the difference between the mind and body being coordinated and the mind and body not being coordinated but they cannot see or understand how to maintain this state of being. We often think the mind is a difficult thing to understand because we cannot hold it in our hand, it has no color, shape or physical or visible boundaries. While the body is finite and has substance with visible boundaries. In today's society, we have to deal with our daily challenges and many of us suffer from anger, anxiety, sadness, etc..... This is because most people still think of the mind as being separate from the body. But, since both are born of the Ki of the universe, and are fundamentally one and the same, it is relatively easy to unify mind and body with practice. The difficulty is learning to maintain it in our daily life.
  We have to understand the relationship that exists between the mind and body in order to achieve mind and body coordination. For the moment let us take the position that the body moves the mind. Then we ask the question, can the mind be made immobile? If the body is tied up, is the mind also tied up? Of course not, the mind moves more when the body is restricted. When we first begin to meditate, the body is still, but the mind is flooded with many thoughts and images. By sitting in silence, the waves (thoughts) of our mind can become still through this discipline and training. Sometimes we think that if the body becomes sick then the mind also becomes sick or gloomy and sad. Although the body can influence the mind, it does not lead it. We always have a choice. Many times when our bodies are sick, subconsciously our mind becomes sad and gloomy. The wonderful thing about the mind is that we can consciously choose to be happy and bright. By understanding that the mind leads the body, we can recover more quickly from physical illnesses if we chose to be happy  and positive.
  There are many outside influences that effect our lives. The outside world is always changing and changing. If we allow our mind to be influenced and controlled (this happened to me, or he made me mad, etc...) by the changing outside world, we are giving up the opportunity to make choices in our life and we become unstable. Everyday things come into our subconscious mind that works on our body. If we think that we are sickly and weak then we will probably be weak and sick. We must use positive thoughts and actions to achieve mind and body unification in our daily lives.

FOUR MAJOR PRINCIPLES TO UNIFY MIND AND BODY

The first and forth principles are principles of the mind (which has no shape or color) and the second and third principles are principles of the body. Principles of the mind are meant to "put or concentrate" the mind in the way specified. Principles of the body mean to focus or concentrate the body in the way specified. All four principles train the mind to lead the body. Like a house with 4 doors, each door leading to the same place, the Four Basic Principles all lead to the same place, mind and body unification. If you have any one principle, you have them all naturally.
 

I recommend going and reading the rest of that page. Here's the breakdown on Extending your Ki.

5. EXTEND KI (Principle of the Mind)

As we learned earlier there are over one-thousand words/concepts in Japanese that have "Ki" in them. In this book we have used the words "coordination" and "unification" interchangeably. The Japanese Language is conceptually different from the English Language. Translating from one language to another does not always give a clear understanding of the concepts being conveyed. When westerners hear the words, "Extend Ki", they think that they have to do something to achieve this state.
When we say, "the absolute universe is one and then two opposing forces appeared, yin and yang, plus and minus and the relative world was born", we are saying that everything came from the same source. Everything is Ki, but because our minds have to interpret the world by saying that this is different from that, we forget that we are all connected. The yin and yang and plus and minus mean that we always have a choice in life. When we chose a plus life our view of life is positive and happy. When we chose a minus life our view of life is negative and we are very unhappy.

1) You are not overly conscious of your body

When you tense your body, you are subconsciously and consciously aware of it. When one performs daily tasks, one is not consciously aware of the body; but when we become upset or tense in our daily life, we can notice many changes in our bodies. If we are speaking in front of a large group of people or if we are teased and become embarrassed, blood can rush to our heads, and we become tense and unable to think properly. When we are concentrating deeply (relaxed completely = extend Ki), we are not overly conscious of our own body and we are mind and body coordinated.

2) You make full use of the centrifugal force in your movements.

Any time a body is in motion centrifugal force is created. Because our eyes are in our head people tend to move from their head and shoulders first, separately from the rest of their body. This type of movement creates instability. When we are mind and body coordinated and we move from our one point, we are also extending Ki. We have all heard that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. When someone attacks us and we are aware of the Ki that is extending, his or her centrifugal motion of attack is easily redirected ( or led). If we think (with a calm mind) of the attack as a force who's energy will be always be reduced by half and therefore spent/used-up, then we can easily extend Ki. Extending Ki also means totally focusing on your opponent and leading your opponent's force/Ki/mind.

3) You have soft eyes and a poised manner.

The eyes are the windows to the soul. When we look at a person, some times we can tell what they are thinking and how they are feeling. We take cues from people's expressions and body language. Our own eyes and expressions show tension, anger, sadness, disappointment, relaxation, calmness, happiness, and confidence. Some people believe that hard eyes create power and control. It is also a good way to get into a fight. But soft eyes can show confidence and kindness. If you are relaxed enough to have soft eyes then you are extending Ki.

4) You show composure in your posture.

Remember the Japanese word, "Shisei", means posture and attitude. Extending Ki does not mean that you are doing something. It is a natural posture that is in line with the principles of the universe. A Ki test is a good way to check our natural posture. If one becomes tense during a Ki test, then our posture reflects that and our mind can be moved. When we relax completely our posture is strong and stable. A proper Ki test always demonstrates our state of mind and body unification.

5) Therefore you are bright and easygoing.

When you are extending Ki you are relaxed and easy to get along with. When you are tense or upset the people around you tend to move away. A smile always makes friends and this demonstrates that plus breeds plus. Being positive and having a smile on our face is a choice we make. This is extending Ki, your intention, focus, goal.

[Kai]

Yeah, they are definitely using Ki (=Chi) in the same way I am, as psychosomatics.