Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 02:43:30 AM

Title: Obama blinked.
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 02:43:30 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43949638/

Taxes on the rich stay where they are, the military takes a tiny cut, and medicare/medicaid are going to get torn to shreds.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Phox on August 01, 2011, 02:44:50 AM
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU  :kingmeh:
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on August 01, 2011, 03:09:10 AM
Great. :|
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:10:43 AM
Are any of you REALLY surprised?

You fucking KNEW, deep down inside, that the castratos that make up the democratic party were going to choke.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on August 01, 2011, 03:14:19 AM
Not surprised at all. Every time Republicans shriek like the incoherent monkeys they are, the Democrats cower in the corner, even when they have the advantage.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:48:16 AM
This is actually just about exactly how I expected it to turn out.  I maintain that it could have been far worse.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:51:49 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:48:16 AM
This is actually just about exactly how I expected it to turn out.  I maintain that it could have been far worse.

How could it possibly be worse?
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Elder Iptuous on August 01, 2011, 03:52:08 AM
Quote from: Hover Cat on August 01, 2011, 03:14:19 AM
Not surprised at all. Every time Republicans shriek like the incoherent monkeys they are, the Democrats cower in the corner, even when they have the advantage.
Do you believe that the democrats in congress actually have the interests of the little people in their hearts?
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:53:45 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on August 01, 2011, 03:52:08 AM
Quote from: Hover Cat on August 01, 2011, 03:14:19 AM
Not surprised at all. Every time Republicans shriek like the incoherent monkeys they are, the Democrats cower in the corner, even when they have the advantage.
Do you believe that the democrats in congress actually have the interests of the little people in their hearts?

They could at least stop pretending to wring their hands before fucking us.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:54:00 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:51:49 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:48:16 AM
This is actually just about exactly how I expected it to turn out.  I maintain that it could have been far worse.

How could it possibly be worse?

we could have defaulted.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Elder Iptuous on August 01, 2011, 03:57:15 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:53:45 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on August 01, 2011, 03:52:08 AM
Quote from: Hover Cat on August 01, 2011, 03:14:19 AM
Not surprised at all. Every time Republicans shriek like the incoherent monkeys they are, the Democrats cower in the corner, even when they have the advantage.
Do you believe that the democrats in congress actually have the interests of the little people in their hearts?

They could at least stop pretending to wring their hands before fucking us.

That would be breaking character, and people might not be able to suspend disbelief if that were to occur.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:59:47 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:54:00 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:51:49 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:48:16 AM
This is actually just about exactly how I expected it to turn out.  I maintain that it could have been far worse.

How could it possibly be worse?

we could have defaulted.

We're still going to, dumbass.  This "cut" is a whopping $1T over TEN YEARS.  Basically, we just handed the money for medicare/medicaid, WIC, etc, over to the Koch brothers, and we're in the EXACT SAME financial bind we were in on Friday.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 01, 2011, 04:09:08 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:54:00 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:51:49 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 01, 2011, 03:48:16 AM
This is actually just about exactly how I expected it to turn out.  I maintain that it could have been far worse.

How could it possibly be worse?

we could have defaulted.

I'm beginning to think that you must be a fairly successful long-troll, because it's hard for me to believe that someone like you could actually exist.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on August 01, 2011, 04:29:34 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:53:45 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on August 01, 2011, 03:52:08 AM
Quote from: Hover Cat on August 01, 2011, 03:14:19 AM
Not surprised at all. Every time Republicans shriek like the incoherent monkeys they are, the Democrats cower in the corner, even when they have the advantage.
Do you believe that the democrats in congress actually have the interests of the little people in their hearts?

They could at least stop pretending to wring their hands before fucking us.
This. And no, I've never thought they gave a shit.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Phox on August 01, 2011, 04:33:07 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 01, 2011, 03:10:43 AM
Are any of you REALLY surprised?

You fucking KNEW, deep down inside, that the castratos that make up the democratic party were going to choke.
Nope. Not surprised. Just a little disappointed. You know, the way sports fans are disappointed in Roger Clemens.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Salty on August 01, 2011, 05:11:16 AM
While Dems and Those Other Dumbasses have been working towards to same goals so quite some time...I seem to recall Bill Clinton putting up more of a tussle than Obama.
Is that accurate?

Regardless, he definitely seems to unite the two parties into one monstrosity than anyone before ever. None of the people I know voted for him seem to be aware of this.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on August 01, 2011, 05:15:12 AM
BBC is reporting that US debt will likely still get downgraded.  Markets have recovered on this news, but not massively.  Basically, international capitalism is Not Amused.

And Congress has yet to vote on the deal.  The House, in its tea-tardism, could still reject this.  And if it does, there wont be time to hash out another deal until the deadline passes.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Laughin Jude on August 01, 2011, 07:23:43 AM
One reality tunnel I've been trying out lately is something like "the Republicans usually stand for what the people really running the US government actually want and the Democrats are there as a token puppet opposition that inevitably 'compromises' so the Reps can get their way on everything, always, the way they're supposed to." It's not perfect, and it's not a viewpoint I necessarily buy into, but it's a fun way of looking at things that comes out ahead way too often.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Jenne on August 01, 2011, 04:52:35 PM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2011/08/01/138879511/is-there-a-debt-ceiling-deal-yes-and-no
NPR seems to think there's still no deal, or it's VERY VERY tentative:

QuoteDo we have a deal? It's still a yes and no situation.

The deal the president has accepted appears likely to be acceptable to a Senate majority of 60 as well. The mood in the Senate tonight was buoyant before adjournment. They did not vote, however.

The two party caucuses will meet tomorrow morning. Majority Leader Harry Reid is expected to have all or nearly all of the 51 Democrats and at least one independent (Joe Lieberman). The other independent, Bernie Sanders of Vermont, may be more of a question mark.

 
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is on board personally, having effectuated the breakthrough in talks with Vice President Joe Biden on Saturday and carried the ball further with Reid today. The thought is that he will bring along enough other Republican votes to reach 60, close off debate and move the plan to the House.

The House is a bigger question. Nancy Pelosi and Speaker John Boehner may have agreed with the president; their respective parties have yet to do so. Democrats are unhappy about being taken for granted, and many want to vote no on this plan.

There are no revenues in it, and all of the pain is on the spending side, with a clear sense that this round and the next round will be much the same in that regard and that every future increase in the debt ceiling will bring another major squeeze on beneficiaries of government programs. There is a sense among progressives that their agenda has been sold down the river by the president and by the majority Democrats in the Senate.

Beyond that lies a potentially greater problem: the same GOP core members, many of them freshmen, who resisted the Boehner plan for three days last week and nearly vitiated his speakership.

They want the Balanced Budget Amendment in the deal, and they want more than a vote on the amendment — they want a guarantee of its passage by two-thirds vote in House and Senate. Otherwise they won't vote for any further increase in the debt limit, period.

(One House Republican, Paul Broun of Georgia, has even proposed lowering the debt ceiling by a $1 trillion or so. And he's not even one of the freshmen. He's a family physician who is 65 and in his third term in the House.)

There will likely be an effort in the GOP conference to resist bringing the deal to come to the floor. If they can do that, they can block the deal and force the deadline to pass. There is a sizable group within the House GOP that is willing to do this, and which denies either 1) that default will happen, or 2) that default is the worst outcome from all of this.

So Boehner has a large task. And he does not have as much time as he had last week.

A quick summary of the plan:

The debt ceiling is raised by about $1 trillion now. The House and Senate enact a series of spending cuts worth about the same. Next year, the ceiling goes up another $1.8 trillion while a committee of 12 members of Congress, half from each party, negotiate another $1.8 trillion in deficit reduction.

If they don't, an automatic mechanism kicks in that would make cuts both parties find unacceptable. As we understand the deal, the second and larger increase in the debt ceiling takes place even if the Congress is still struggling with the second round of deficit reduction.

The plan also includes that "Plan B" business McConnell proposed earlier, whereby the president asks for a higher debt ceiling, Congress disapproves, the president vetoes their disapproval and the Congress fails to override his veto. I am not making this up.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Disco Pickle on August 01, 2011, 07:43:54 PM
From a CNN Money article on this:

QuoteNEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Well, that was ugly.

And there's plenty in it for everyone to hate.

On Monday, Congress will start voting on a last-minute debt ceiling deal that would keep the country out of default and reduce deficits by at least $2.1 trillion over a decade.

Whether the deal might also avert a first-ever credit downgrade for the United States is not clear, since ratings agency Standard & Poor's indicated it was looking for a credible, bipartisan plan that had at least $4 trillion of debt reduction.

As described by the parties Sunday night, the plan includes no tax or entitlement reform measures up front, although theoretically it leaves the door open to both.

The House is set to vote before the Senate. They don't have much time. The debt ceiling must be raised by Tuesday.

A debt ceiling increase of between $2.1 trillion and $2.4 trillion: The framework will raise the debt ceiling immediately by $400 billion, then by another $500 billion after September.

After deep cuts are enacted by the end of the year, it will be increased by another $1.2 trillion to $1.5 trillion.

All told, the increases should cover the Treasury's borrowing needs until 2013.

At least $2.1 trillion in spending cuts: The framework would immediately cap domestic and defense spending, resulting in cuts of $917 billion over 10 years.

The framework then calls for more deficit reduction -- between $1.2 trillion and $1.5 trillion worth -- to be determined by the end of this year and imposed over 10 years.

Bipartisan debt-reduction committee: That second round of deficit reduction would be proposed by a special bipartisan joint committee of Congress. The committee has until Thanksgiving to come up with its proposals and those proposals would be guaranteed by an up-or-down vote without amendment by Dec. 23.

If the committee proposes and the Congress approves between $1.2 trillion and $1.5 trillion in cuts, the debt ceiling will be increased dollar for dollar.

If the committee deadlocks or comes up with less than $1.2 trillion in cuts, or if Congress votes down the committee's proposals, the debt ceiling will be raised by $1.2 trillion.

While it appears the committee will be free to consider entitlement and tax reform -- and dare we say it, tax hikes -- practically speaking it's more likely members would hit an impasse over these measures just as they have, oh, every other day this year.

Across-the-board cuts as trigger: If the committee deadlocks or fails to come up with at least $1.2 trillion in debt reduction, the sword of Damocles will fall on most forms of spending in the federal budget.

Specifically, as much as $1.2 trillion in across-the-board cuts would kick in -- evenly divided between defense and non-defense spending.

Exempt from this round of cuts, however, would be programs that aid low-income Americans, according to Democrats' fact sheets. These include Social Security, Medicaid, veterans' benefits and pensions, food stamps and Supplemental Security Income.

While Medicare would not be exempt, the framework would restrict cuts to no more than 2% of the program's cost. And the cuts that occur would not affect Medicare benefits nor would they increase seniors' costs, according to the White House fact sheet.

Required vote on balanced budget amendment: In theory, the across-the-board cuts could be avoided if instead both chambers of Congress pass a Balanced Budget amendment to the Constitution and send it to the states for ratification before the end of the year.

But for a host of reasons, political and substantive, that's very unlikely to happen. To top of page
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 02, 2011, 04:41:59 AM
I'm struggling with this.

Objectively, this is terrible and will be bad for, well, almost everyone who isn't already rich.

On the other hand, this will put me alot closer to being in that category. Those cuts to military spending are going to translate into the Navy spending ALOT more money on using our services, and the Captain has made no secret that he now considers me one of the indispensable people in the company along with his partner and our chief engineer. If this goes through, it probably IMMEDIATELY adds somewhere between 20K and 30K a year to my income and there's a very real possibility that it leads to us taking over operations on additional ships and me becoming the budget and supply officer for the whole company with a percentage share in addition to my salary.

Part of me feels like I'm becoming what I used to hate, but the other part of me thinks I've worked my ass off long enough that I shouldn't feel bad about cashing in, even in these circumstances.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on August 02, 2011, 10:40:26 AM
The House passed the bill.  It's a done deal.

Interesting factoid from the BBC

QuoteHouse Democrats were evenly split on the legislation - 95 for and 95 against - while 174 Republicans voted for the measure and 66 opposed it.

So much for Tea Party obstructionism.

Looks like individual payments under Medicaid, Social Security and Medicare wont be affected.

Still, you can't stop Judgement Day.  It's been pushed back to 2013, but who is to say this whole dog and pony show wont happen again?  And this time, it only barely scrapes in, on the very final day.  Next time around, it may not work out.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Fast Eddy on August 02, 2011, 12:51:43 PM
I really wanted to see Obama take the 14th Amendment route. It would lead to a bunch of pants-shitting from the Tea Party and Obama would likely never hear the end of it, but the debt ceiling has to go. There should never be any sort of law that has a fail-deadly effect should it not be renewed/revised/etc.

Still kinda holding out hope for somebody to filibuster the bill in the Senate. If they can hold the floor for (I believe) 12 hours, that should force the President's hand and hopefully get rid of the debt ceiling entirely, and make sure that the U.S.'s credit rating isn't threatened by economic hostage taking.

Hopefully Bernie Sanders gets recognized and decides to turn some tables. I don't know all of the procedural rules of the Senate, so it's probably just a pipe dream, but I would love to watch the Republicans lose their shit as one rogue Senator makes executive intervention to prevent default necessary, and removes all incentive for the Senate Democrats to vote yes on that bill.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what all's going on in this bill. I'm reading it now but it'll probably take the rest of the day before I can have a half-decent understanding of what's going where and to whom.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c112:./temp/~c112UzZ5oT
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on August 02, 2011, 01:44:05 PM
The 14th Ammendment route would've been hilarious, agreed.  Unfortunately, less opportunity for cuts Obama wanted to make anyway.

The BBC have a roundup of the international press reaction to the deal, which is quite interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14371366

QuoteBeijing's China Daily: "The agreement [on raising the US debt ceiling] is likely to avert default by Washington and it certainly is a relief for China... We still cannot rule out the possibility of a downgrade of the US credit rating if Washington fails to come up with a long-term and balanced solution to address its debt problem... For policy makers in Beijing, seeking alternative ways to invest the massive foreign exchange reserves and to reduce its rapid accumulation remain the crucial challenges." (Interview with Chen Daofu, director, Policy Research Centre, Financial Research Institute, State Council Development Research Centre)

QuoteMoskovskiye Novosti: "America has changed its mind about having a Judgment Day... But the obvious inability to reach an agreement that was demonstrated by political forces in the US has had an equally damaging effect on the country... The image of the country as a responsible borrower has suffered most." (Article by Denis Voroshilov and Igor Kryuchkov)

QuoteSueddeutsche Zeitung: "State bankruptcy has been avoided, but the compromise announced by US President Barack Obama is flawed from an economic point of view. It does not resolve any of the real budgetary problems and some of its elements are even harmful to the economy."

Basically, International Capital Is Not Amused (again).
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2011, 02:38:31 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on August 02, 2011, 04:41:59 AM
I'm struggling with this.

Objectively, this is terrible and will be bad for, well, almost everyone who isn't already rich.

On the other hand, this will put me alot closer to being in that category. Those cuts to military spending are going to translate into the Navy spending ALOT more money on using our services, and the Captain has made no secret that he now considers me one of the indispensable people in the company along with his partner and our chief engineer. If this goes through, it probably IMMEDIATELY adds somewhere between 20K and 30K a year to my income and there's a very real possibility that it leads to us taking over operations on additional ships and me becoming the budget and supply officer for the whole company with a percentage share in addition to my salary.

Part of me feels like I'm becoming what I used to hate, but the other part of me thinks I've worked my ass off long enough that I shouldn't feel bad about cashing in, even in these circumstances.

You have nothing to do with the decision.  If it profits, you, what are you expected to do?  Tear your hair out, quit your job, and wear a hair shirt?

Fuck that.  Take what you can get.  There's no moral component to this.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Lord Cataplanga on August 02, 2011, 03:23:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2011, 02:38:31 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on August 02, 2011, 04:41:59 AM
I'm struggling with this.

Objectively, this is terrible and will be bad for, well, almost everyone who isn't already rich.

On the other hand, this will put me alot closer to being in that category. Those cuts to military spending are going to translate into the Navy spending ALOT more money on using our services, and the Captain has made no secret that he now considers me one of the indispensable people in the company along with his partner and our chief engineer. If this goes through, it probably IMMEDIATELY adds somewhere between 20K and 30K a year to my income and there's a very real possibility that it leads to us taking over operations on additional ships and me becoming the budget and supply officer for the whole company with a percentage share in addition to my salary.

Part of me feels like I'm becoming what I used to hate, but the other part of me thinks I've worked my ass off long enough that I shouldn't feel bad about cashing in, even in these circumstances.

You have nothing to do with the decision.  If it profits, you, what are you expected to do?  Tear your hair out, quit your job, and wear a hair shirt?

Fuck that.  Take what you can get.  There's no moral component to this.

TITCM. After all, you did not cause this state of affairs, so it's silly to feel bad about taking advantage from it.

Also, look who is back (http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2011/08/whats-this-day-of-rest-shit.html)
Quote from: IOZThe Tea Party held America hostage during "the debt debate"? No, you fool, you idiot; fucking rich people did it. The Tea Party is just some shit they cooked up to keep you busy, to keep you fuming at each other while they steal your tooth fairy money and grandma's dentures. Every policy that you abhor and mistakenly ascribe to the ersatz conservative revanchism of the so-called tea-party movement is a willful policy of oligarchic centralism with the end goal of extracting every last red cent from every last human being on the earth. You are both the miner and the mine. Strap the gaslight to your forehead, bub, and stick your head right back in where the sun don't shine.

ETA: more awesome (http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2011/08/ascribery.html)
Quote from: IOZLet me explain something to you.  "The Social Safety Net" is not a benefit or an entitlement; it is a bribe.  It is a package of bribes offered to fictitious, created entity called "The Middle Class" in order to entice them away from any sense of solidarity with the poor.  Its origin is anti-Communism.  And it has been very effective.  Middle-class entitelements, from Social Security to the mortgage deduction, have kept you poor slobs in line for seventy years, toiling away, building the foundations and walls of your own prison. ...
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Adios on August 02, 2011, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 02, 2011, 02:38:31 PM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on August 02, 2011, 04:41:59 AM
I'm struggling with this.

Objectively, this is terrible and will be bad for, well, almost everyone who isn't already rich.

On the other hand, this will put me alot closer to being in that category. Those cuts to military spending are going to translate into the Navy spending ALOT more money on using our services, and the Captain has made no secret that he now considers me one of the indispensable people in the company along with his partner and our chief engineer. If this goes through, it probably IMMEDIATELY adds somewhere between 20K and 30K a year to my income and there's a very real possibility that it leads to us taking over operations on additional ships and me becoming the budget and supply officer for the whole company with a percentage share in addition to my salary.

Part of me feels like I'm becoming what I used to hate, but the other part of me thinks I've worked my ass off long enough that I shouldn't feel bad about cashing in, even in these circumstances.

You have nothing to do with the decision.  If it profits, you, what are you expected to do?  Tear your hair out, quit your job, and wear a hair shirt?

Fuck that.  Take what you can get.  There's no moral component to this.

Completely agree.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on August 02, 2011, 09:01:33 PM
IOZ seems...rather incensed.

I haven't seen him this angry since 2006, in fact.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Adios on August 02, 2011, 10:20:29 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 02, 2011, 09:01:33 PM
IOZ seems...rather incensed.

I haven't seen him this angry since 2006, in fact.

I don't know who that is, but it sure looks like a fun button to push daily!
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on August 05, 2011, 07:35:15 PM
I'm going to buck conventional board wisdom here and state that Obama, in fact, played a blinder.

First of all, I assume Obama is a centrist/right-leaning but socially liberal corporatist.  Therefore, it was his aim all along to slash public spending (his bailout was too botched to be anything but purposefully so).

Secondly, by playing "chicken" with the Republicans, he has sunk their chances of 2012 Presidential victory.  Check the stats

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html?_r=1&hp

QuoteRepublicans in Congress shoulder more of the blame for the difficulties in reaching a debt-ceiling agreement than President Obama and the Democrats, the poll found.

The Republicans compromised too little, a majority of those polled said. All told, 72 percent disapproved of the way Republicans in Congress handled the negotiations, while 66 percent disapproved of the way Democrats in Congress handled negotiations

When the blame game goes down in 2012 for how shit the economy is, it will be the GOP who will shoulder the blame.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Adios on August 05, 2011, 07:39:01 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 05, 2011, 07:35:15 PM
I'm going to buck conventional board wisdom here and state that Obama, in fact, played a blinder.

First of all, I assume Obama is a centrist/right-leaning but socially liberal corporatist.  Therefore, it was his aim all along to slash public spending (his bailout was too botched to be anything but purposefully so).

Secondly, by playing "chicken" with the Republicans, he has sunk their chances of 2012 Presidential victory.  Check the stats

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html?_r=1&hp

QuoteRepublicans in Congress shoulder more of the blame for the difficulties in reaching a debt-ceiling agreement than President Obama and the Democrats, the poll found.

The Republicans compromised too little, a majority of those polled said. All told, 72 percent disapproved of the way Republicans in Congress handled the negotiations, while 66 percent disapproved of the way Democrats in Congress handled negotiations

When the blame game goes down in 2012 for how shit the economy is, it will be the GOP who will shoulder the blame.

And you just know this is all we're going to hear about during the campaigns. Not jobs, not the wars, not financial regulation...
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 05, 2011, 11:54:24 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 05, 2011, 07:35:15 PM
I'm going to buck conventional board wisdom here and state that Obama, in fact, played a blinder.

First of all, I assume Obama is a centrist/right-leaning but socially liberal corporatist.  Therefore, it was his aim all along to slash public spending (his bailout was too botched to be anything but purposefully so).

Secondly, by playing "chicken" with the Republicans, he has sunk their chances of 2012 Presidential victory.  Check the stats

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html?_r=1&hp

QuoteRepublicans in Congress shoulder more of the blame for the difficulties in reaching a debt-ceiling agreement than President Obama and the Democrats, the poll found.

The Republicans compromised too little, a majority of those polled said. All told, 72 percent disapproved of the way Republicans in Congress handled the negotiations, while 66 percent disapproved of the way Democrats in Congress handled negotiations

When the blame game goes down in 2012 for how shit the economy is, it will be the GOP who will shoulder the blame.

I'll buy this.

Whatever else I or anyone else may think of the guy, there's little doubt that he's an absolutely brilliant political tactician.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Triple Zero on December 12, 2011, 02:57:31 PM
So, I can imagine that a lot of people won't vote for the GOP, given that

1--the candidates so far are pretty much the most stupid retards I've ever seen try to win an election.

2--apparently they're shouldering the blame for the economic collapse.

However does that mean they're all going to vote for Obama??

I can imagine a Republican with half a brain that thinks "well fuck these Bachman Cain and Perry idiots, Obama actually seems a pretty solid rightwing choice", but what's a non-braindead Democrat or even (god forbid) intelligent person going to do?

Obama personally appointed his financial advisors, right? His Wall Street buddies that are blocking legal persecution of the corrupt traders and other fuckups that've been made?

I know a lot of people have been saying "well Obama wants to do the right thing, but you know with Congress and everything he's basically being held hostage and cannot help against all the opposition he's dealing with" -- but by now there's more than enough evidence that this is simply not the case, Obama is playing a game, he knows damn well what the score is (duh he is obviously not stupid so I can't imagine that he became president and was all surprised like OMG they're playing politics in here? Now I can't get all my promises done! boooo), he is the Smiler, and his mask is crumbling.

So what are you going to vote for?
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: AFK on December 12, 2011, 03:59:57 PM
Early on-set dementia. 
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 04:00:52 PM
 :lulz:


The Peace and Freedom Party? Fucked if I know. They have no chance at winning, but at least then I can say I didn't vote for whichever retard runs the cage for the next four years.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 12, 2011, 04:23:20 PM
I was going to vote for whoever I thought would be the most hilarious option (in the context of the hilarity that would follow if they won) and was leaning towards Paul or Bachmann when I realized that the funnies thing that could happen would be if Obama got reelected in spite of all the screeching hillbilly asstards calling for him to be strung up. So I guess I'm voting for the smiler again but for all the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
I kind of want to keep my hands clean of that, I have to say. I know what the outcome's gonna be, but nevertheless.



After reading Rog's latest sermon, I feel like I ought to clarify my point: I feel it's my duty to vote. Like, I'm not being a citizen if I don't. I live in a shitty city in a shitty county in a state that can't run itself in a country hell bent on fucking over everyone in the whole fucking world because it serves it to do so, but I'm still a citizen and I should still vote because I'm letting the system win if I don't pipe up and say something. Peace and Freedom is saying something by depriving both the Dems and the Republicans of my vote while at least indicating what I'd like to see (I hesitate to say it, but at least message-wide they're a bit better than the Dems et al.?). I'm not actually starry-eyed enough to think they'd say true for very long if they got elected, of course (there's a multitude of historical examples - the Grange party for example), but at least they realize something is wrong and they say they want to fix it.

I'm probably still not clear (I suppose I come across as a little bit idealistic, which I'm not), but I have to get my ass to class.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 07:02:19 PM
I've been consistently voting for the Green Party since Shannon O'Brien won the Democratic Gubernatorial primary in MA (This, incidentally, was the election that sent Mitt Romney to the Governor's office), and Socialist if no Green is available.

Obama's going to win MA anyway. It doesn't matter who I vote for because MA always goes to the Democratic candidate. And yet, somehow me voting Green creates the potential for "spoiler effect."

So, I imagine I'll be voting for :checks wikipedia:

Sweet, Jill Stein's running. I might take part in the primary if I can then.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: LMNO on December 12, 2011, 07:33:28 PM
Jill Stein AGAIN?



:argh!:



Gimme someone I don't pity, please.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 07:36:50 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
I feel it's my duty to vote.

No.

It is your duty to be a walking glitch.  Your vote is simply one more tool in doing so.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 07:39:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 12, 2011, 07:33:28 PM
Jill Stein AGAIN?



:argh!:



Gimme someone I don't pity, please.

Kent Mesplay is also running. Not sure when the primary is, if there is one at all.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 07:55:46 PM
You can vote for whichever branch of the oligarchy most flatters your social biases and cultural leanings, because, really, it doesn't matter a damn.  Wall Street ownership of the executive and legislative branch will not change.  The retarded one step forward, 15,000 steps back approach to empire building will not be curtailed.  War with Iran will still be on the cards.  The NSA will still ask you "a/s/l?" in the chatrooms, despite having CCTV installed on your actual nose.  Politics will still be a game played at by upper class media pundits with Harvard degrees, political/media legacies, or both, and everyone else will get ground into paste for your robotic shock-troopers to feed off, as they fly to invade East Turkmenistan.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 07:56:37 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 07:55:46 PM
You can vote for whichever branch of the oligarchy most flatters your social biases and cultural leanings, because, really, it doesn't matter a damn.  Wall Street ownership of the executive and legislative branch will not change.  The retarded one step forward, 15,000 steps back approach to empire building will not be curtailed.  War with Iran will still be on the cards.  The NSA will still ask you "a/s/l?" in the chatrooms, despite having CCTV installed on your actual nose.  Politics will still be a game played at by upper class media pundits with Harvard degrees, political/media legacies, or both, and everyone else will get ground into paste for your robotic shock-troopers to feed off, as they fly to invade East Turkmenistan.

That.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: LMNO on December 12, 2011, 07:58:11 PM
So how do I chose vote?




I'm 76.9% serious, because this broken system is still better than any system currently employed for choosing a government than I can think of right now.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 12, 2011, 07:58:11 PM
So how do I chose vote?




I'm 76.9% serious, because this broken system is still better than any system currently employed for choosing a government than I can think of right now.

Use whatever criteria you like.  As Cain says, it won't make any difference.

I'm voting for The Smiler, because I'd really like to see fat teabaggers lose their damn minds some more.  Left wingers aren't nearly as funny in defeat.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Luna on December 12, 2011, 08:05:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 12, 2011, 07:58:11 PM
So how do I chose vote?




I'm 76.9% serious, because this broken system is still better than any system currently employed for choosing a government than I can think of right now.

Use whatever criteria you like.  As Cain says, it won't make any difference.

I'm voting for The Smiler, because I'd really like to see fat teabaggers lose their damn minds some more.  Left wingers aren't nearly as funny in defeat.

If all else fails, choose the biggest, loudest, dumbest jackass you know.  Ask which way s/he is voting, and vote the other way.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:06:23 PM
Your vote is especially worthless if you are in a "safe seat" or "blue/red state".  I've had exactly four votes in my life where the results could have gone either way and so my participation mattered.  Two of those were party election votes, and two were local council votes.

Remember my first rule of politics: if someone doesn't have to pay to have your alleigance, they will take you for granted.  The Democrats and Republicans can get 25% of voting Americans on each side by participating in a mostly pointless and diversionary "culture war", drawn up along socio-cultural lines.  They neither require not care about having your personal blessing for their administration.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:09:04 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:06:23 PM
Your vote is especially worthless if you are in a "safe seat" or "blue/red state".  I've had exactly four votes in my life where the results could have gone either way and so my participation mattered.  Two of those were party election votes, and two were local council votes.

Remember my first rule of politics: if someone doesn't have to pay to have your alleigance, they will take you for granted.  The Democrats and Republicans can get 25% of voting Americans on each side by participating in a mostly pointless and diversionary "culture war", drawn up along socio-cultural lines.  They neither require not care about having your personal blessing for their administration.

This would be more of a concern if I gave a fuck what happens to the United States as a political entity.  Since I don't view the government as in any way CAPABLE of doing its job (as stated in the constitution, rather than its actual job of making sure some Big Daddies get paid), the only thing left to vote for is what will cause the most butthurt.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:13:52 PM
No argument there.  I'm just trying to destroy the notion that a vote, especially on the Presidential level, is actually worth anything.  It's not, except under very unusual circumstances which will almost certainly never apply to anyone here.

If you want to have an impact on politics, go buy a bank.  Or an oil company.  In the actually existing world, if you don't have at least 10 lobbyists doing your bidding in DC, you're a nobody, to be treated as a small child, yielding attention to you at certain pre-set times, coddling you and assuring you that your best interests are being looked out for, then told to leave the room because you're out of your depth and the adults are now talking.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 08:19:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 07:36:50 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
I feel it's my duty to vote.

No.

It is your duty to be a walking glitch.  Your vote is simply one more tool in doing so.
'Course.


Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:06:23 PM
Your vote is especially worthless if you are in a "safe seat" or "blue/red state".  I've had exactly four votes in my life where the results could have gone either way and so my participation mattered.  Two of those were party election votes, and two were local council votes.

Remember my first rule of politics: if someone doesn't have to pay to have your alleigance, they will take you for granted.  The Democrats and Republicans can get 25% of voting Americans on each side by participating in a mostly pointless and diversionary "culture war", drawn up along socio-cultural lines.  They neither require not care about having your personal blessing for their administration.
Yep. Fresno ALWAYS goes Conservative. I'm pretty sure Lincoln lost here (or would have, if anyone was dumb enough to live here year round back then), and California is usually Democratic territory as a state, so my piddly PFP vote matters in no way whatsoever.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:13:52 PM
No argument there.  I'm just trying to destroy the notion that a vote, especially on the Presidential level, is actually worth anything.  It's not, except under very unusual circumstances which will almost certainly never apply to anyone here.

Yeah. When democrats tell me I'm throwing away my vote, I point out that everyone is throwing away their vote, and at least more visibility for the Greens could help make them more viable in local elections that actually might be good for something.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:20:11 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:13:52 PM
No argument there.  I'm just trying to destroy the notion that a vote, especially on the Presidential level, is actually worth anything.  It's not, except under very unusual circumstances which will almost certainly never apply to anyone here.

Yeah. When democrats tell me I'm throwing away my vote, I point out that everyone is throwing away their vote, and at least more visibility for the Greens could help make them more viable in local elections that actually might be good for something.

Like what?

Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 08:21:44 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:20:11 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:13:52 PM
No argument there.  I'm just trying to destroy the notion that a vote, especially on the Presidential level, is actually worth anything.  It's not, except under very unusual circumstances which will almost certainly never apply to anyone here.

Yeah. When democrats tell me I'm throwing away my vote, I point out that everyone is throwing away their vote, and at least more visibility for the Greens could help make them more viable in local elections that actually might be good for something.

Like what?



City councils, eventually state offices.

ETA: There seems to be some evidence of it working too. In elections that don't have a Republican contender, Green challengers pull around 20% of the vote, as opposed to the often less than 2% in Governor and Presidential elections.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:27:18 PM
The Greens will automatically be locked out of the political system wherever they are elected, unless they submit to the logic that governs the Democrats and Republicans.  Same goes for the Libertarians.

The only way the Greens would have any impact is if a large number of voters abandoned the Democrats for them at once, because then the Democrats would have to fight for their votes.  And this won't happen, because, well, OMG LOOK A SCARY REPUBLICAN MIGHT GET INTO POWER YOU BETTER VOTE DEMOCRAT!
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:27:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:27:18 PM
The Greens will automatically be locked out of the political system wherever they are elected, unless they submit to the logic that governs the Democrats and Republicans.  Same goes for the Libertarians.

The only way the Greens would have any impact is if a large number of voters abandoned the Democrats for them at once, because then the Democrats would have to fight for their votes.  And this won't happen, because, well, OMG LOOK A SCARY REPUBLICAN MIGHT GET INTO POWER YOU BETTER VOTE DEMOCRAT!

Heh.

Nader/Bush, 2000.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:27:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:27:18 PM
The Greens will automatically be locked out of the political system wherever they are elected, unless they submit to the logic that governs the Democrats and Republicans.  Same goes for the Libertarians.

The only way the Greens would have any impact is if a large number of voters abandoned the Democrats for them at once, because then the Democrats would have to fight for their votes.  And this won't happen, because, well, OMG LOOK A SCARY REPUBLICAN MIGHT GET INTO POWER YOU BETTER VOTE DEMOCRAT!

Heh.

Nader/Bush, 2000.

2000 wasn't an election, it was an appointment.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: AFK on December 12, 2011, 08:35:24 PM
I dunno what they are like in Massachussets, but in Maine, the Greens are just as scary as the TeaBaggers, just scary in the equal and opposite direction. 

I mean, I don't think they could fuck up the State any worse than LePage, but I'd be pretty okay with them being as far away from political office as possible. 
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 08:36:50 PM
Quote from: My Lady is a Cantaloupe on December 12, 2011, 08:35:24 PM
I dunno what they are like in Massachussets, but in Maine, the Greens are just as scary as the TeaBaggers, just scary in the equal and opposite direction. 

I mean, I don't think they could fuck up the State any worse than LePage, but I'd be pretty okay with them being as far away from political office as possible. 

They're basically hippies here.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:38:18 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:27:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 08:27:18 PM
The Greens will automatically be locked out of the political system wherever they are elected, unless they submit to the logic that governs the Democrats and Republicans.  Same goes for the Libertarians.

The only way the Greens would have any impact is if a large number of voters abandoned the Democrats for them at once, because then the Democrats would have to fight for their votes.  And this won't happen, because, well, OMG LOOK A SCARY REPUBLICAN MIGHT GET INTO POWER YOU BETTER VOTE DEMOCRAT!

Heh.

Nader/Bush, 2000.

2000 wasn't an election, it was an appointment.

True, but Nader made it possible.  Nader ran twice, splitting the left vote.  He wouldn't quit when it became apparent that he wouldn't attain the 5% required for matching funds, and he spent all his time dogging on Gore, presumably for not being "pure" enough.

The only question I have is, did they buy him or blackmail him?
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 12, 2011, 08:42:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 07:55:46 PM
You can vote for whichever branch of the oligarchy most flatters your social biases and cultural leanings, because, really, it doesn't matter a damn.  Wall Street ownership of the executive and legislative branch will not change.  The retarded one step forward, 15,000 steps back approach to empire building will not be curtailed.  War with Iran will still be on the cards.  The NSA will still ask you "a/s/l?" in the chatrooms, despite having CCTV installed on your actual nose.  Politics will still be a game played at by upper class media pundits with Harvard degrees, political/media legacies, or both, and everyone else will get ground into paste for your robotic shock-troopers to feed off, as they fly to invade East Turkmenistan.

Bingo.

And bollocks to the idea that you HAVE to vote. If it weren't for my agenda of hilarity I sure as hell wouldn't bother because if you leave the humor factor out of it, it's really just providing a veneer of legitimacy to a corrupt system.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: AFK on December 12, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
True on the national level.  But voting can have a bit more impact on the state and local level, depending on your state or locality. 

The problem is that a lot of people don't get involved in local politics because they don't think it is important enough.  Which is really nutty if you ask me. 

And even if you don't. 
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: My Lady is a Cantaloupe on December 12, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
True on the national level.  But voting can have a bit more impact on the state and local level, depending on your state or locality. 

The problem is that a lot of people don't get involved in local politics because they don't think it is important enough.  Which is really nutty if you ask me. 

And even if you don't. 

Yeah, which is probably why whoever the Mayor of Boston happens to be essentially gets a lifetime appointment. Never any serious contenders once you're an incumbent because no one cares as long as you don't fuck things up too much.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 08:56:55 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: My Lady is a Cantaloupe on December 12, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
True on the national level.  But voting can have a bit more impact on the state and local level, depending on your state or locality. 

The problem is that a lot of people don't get involved in local politics because they don't think it is important enough.  Which is really nutty if you ask me. 

And even if you don't. 

Yeah, which is probably why whoever the Mayor of Boston happens to be essentially gets a lifetime appointment. Never any serious contenders once you're an incumbent because no one cares as long as you don't fuck things up too much.

Our mayors universally go insane in their second term.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 09:16:12 PM
Mine Fresno's just looks increasingly like an Armenian anorexic barbie doll with every term. I have no idea who mine is at all.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:19:31 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:16:12 PM
Mine Fresno's just looks increasingly like an Armenian anorexic barbie doll with every term. I have no idea who mine is at all.

Oro Valley's mayor is a republican, but remarkably seems to have no major brain damage.  His town hall meetings usually turn into screaming matches where he calls people "numb cunts" for wanting to slash education funding for their own children's schools, and REALLY goes berserk when the fundies try to cancel health and/or biology classes.

Then he gets reelected, like clockwork.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 09:22:34 PM
Sounds like a decent guy for a Repub, I have to say.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:22:34 PM
Sounds like a decent guy for a Repub, I have to say.

Tucson's mayor is also a republican, though none of the other republicans will talk to him, because he makes sure the homeless people are taken care of, despite the fact that Tucson is balls-ass broke.

He has a rather stressful job, though, and has - over the last 6 months - completely lost his mind.  He wanders around the legal district at night, drunk off his ass and puking on things.  Then he finally passes out and the police have to shovel his fat ass into a van and take him home.

We don't talk about it much, here.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Freeky on December 12, 2011, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:22:34 PM
Sounds like a decent guy for a Repub, I have to say.

Tucson's mayor is also a republican, though none of the other republicans will talk to him, because he makes sure the homeless people are taken care of, despite the fact that Tucson is balls-ass broke.

He has a rather stressful job, though, and has - over the last 6 months - completely lost his mind.  He wanders around the legal district at night, drunk off his ass and puking on things.  Then he finally passes out and the police have to shovel his fat ass into a van and take him home.

We don't talk about it much, here.

Mayor Walkup is the human personification of the Tucsonite's general lot in life.

Fracture sometimes wonders if he was really born, or if Tucson had him created as a sort of symbol.  "This is you,"  the God-City says.  "This is your place in the natural order of things.  Don't expect anything else."
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:34:00 PM
Quote from: Science me, babby on December 12, 2011, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:22:34 PM
Sounds like a decent guy for a Repub, I have to say.

Tucson's mayor is also a republican, though none of the other republicans will talk to him, because he makes sure the homeless people are taken care of, despite the fact that Tucson is balls-ass broke.

He has a rather stressful job, though, and has - over the last 6 months - completely lost his mind.  He wanders around the legal district at night, drunk off his ass and puking on things.  Then he finally passes out and the police have to shovel his fat ass into a van and take him home.

We don't talk about it much, here.

Mayor Walkup is the human personification of the Tucsonite's general lot in life.

Fracture sometimes wonders if he was really born, or if Tucson had him created as a sort of symbol.  "This is you,"  the God-City says.  "This is your place in the natural order of things.  Don't expect anything else."

When our mayors go insane, nobody says anything...Because they stop running for election, and the new guy pretty much knows he's gonna do the same thing.

And Mayor Walkup is in his afterlife, just as we are in ours.  This is what he gets, for whatever vices or virtues he had in life.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 09:36:27 PM
The amount of mythos you two have around Tucson makes me more than a little envious.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:36:27 PM
The amount of mythos you two have around Tucson makes me more than a little envious.

We didn't make this shit up.  It's just a sinkhole of probability.  EVERYTHING fails.  Everything falls apart.  Our politicians are nuts, our SWAT team is absolutely bonkers, the rest of our cops are over-worked but definitely superior...In fact, the only that DOES work here is our emergency services.

I think because it has to.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 09:46:20 PM
Yeah, we don't even get that. Fresno is a sink hole of corruption and fail all around.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Freeky on December 12, 2011, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:36:27 PM
The amount of mythos you two have around Tucson makes me more than a little envious.

We didn't make this shit up.  It's just a sinkhole of probability.  EVERYTHING fails.  Everything falls apart.  Our politicians are nuts, our SWAT team is absolutely bonkers, the rest of our cops are over-worked but definitely superior...In fact, the only that DOES work here is our emergency services.

I think because it has to.

If they didn't, this whole section of the US would be like the LA riots, only 24/7, with no time off for good behavior.

It would be Mad Max without the occasional good deed.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:48:26 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:46:20 PM
Yeah, we don't even get that. Fresno is a sink hole of corruption and fail all around.

Oh, we have corruption.  Oh, my, yes.

You can't fill a fucking POT HOLE in this city without crossing someone's palm, and getting a building permit to fix a deck, for example, will cost you plenty.  Not to mention our robocop graft system.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 09:51:17 PM
The wealthiest school district here uses its lawyer to pressure the news paper into not reporting pedophile and drug addict teachers, because it's a much more valuable client than the paper.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 12, 2011, 09:52:58 PM
Our mayors are invariably... interesting. Sometimes scary.

Current one:

(http://stumptownblogger.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b86d36970c010536efd49a970b-800wi)

This guy is a douche. A big gay douche.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:55:00 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:51:17 PM
The wealthiest school district here uses its lawyer to pressure the news paper into not reporting pedophile and drug addict teachers, because it's a much more valuable client than the paper.

Nice.

The police here finally had a handle on things, so the council laid off a full third of them, replacing them with robocop speed traps.  The resulting revenue was supposed to go to the school district, but they just use it to buy more robocops...At the same time they cut school funding by the same amount as the robocops would have provided...In short, they double-fucked 'em.

As a result, we get the very bottom of the barrel, as far as teachers go.  With all the horrors you'd expect that would bring.

There's a reason I live up in Oro Valley with the pay'bucker swine.  It's the last solvent school district in the state, and I still have one kid in high school.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
Jesus. Yeah, I would, too.



Here's my mayor:
(http://www.ci.clovis.ca.us/SiteCollectionImages/CityCouncil/Jose-Flores.jpg)
He scares me a little, but I like his tie.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 09:59:54 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
Jesus. Yeah, I would, too.



Here's my mayor:
(http://www.ci.clovis.ca.us/SiteCollectionImages/CityCouncil/Jose-Flores.jpg)
He scares me a little, but I like his tie.

HE'S GONNA EAT ME!   :x
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Eater of Clowns on December 12, 2011, 10:02:01 PM
That looks like a man with very particular tastes when consuming the flesh of another human.

I can't tell what those tastes are, specifically, but he's a cannibal who knows what he likes.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 12, 2011, 10:02:12 PM
That is the second-most terrifying mayor I've ever seen!

Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Eater of Clowns on December 12, 2011, 10:02:28 PM
Oh wait, it's suffering.

That's what it is.

Suffering.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 12, 2011, 10:04:03 PM
This is our previous mayor, who was kind of awesome:

(http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/03/gcelebrities/Vera_Katz-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 10:05:46 PM
Quote from: Nigel on December 12, 2011, 10:04:03 PM
This is our previous mayor, who was kind of awesome:

(http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/03/gcelebrities/Vera_Katz-2.jpg)


AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 10:07:29 PM
She's kinda adorable, in a creepy let-me-lovingly-pinch-your-cheeks-with-my-claws kind of way.

Quote from: Eater of Clowns on December 12, 2011, 10:02:01 PM
That looks like a man with very particular tastes when consuming the flesh of another human.

I can't tell what those tastes are, specifically, but he's a cannibal who knows what he likes.
:lulz: I bet he lurks on the edge of the city lines and waits for silly Fresnans to try to cross. Then he springs out from behind an abandoned car dealership and stuffs them down his gaping maw, whole and raw like a snake eating a rat.

It would explain Fresnans' reluctance to cross the boundary.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 10:11:26 PM
This is our Mayor, Thomas "Mumbles" Menino, in office since 1993, when Bill Clinton appointed his predecessor Ambassador to Vatican City.

(http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20091219/ab04b9_Menino_12202009.jpg)

I'm not sure what this is about though.

(http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//june10/menino_locks.jpg)
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Halloween?
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Halloween?

Just looked into it. Red Sox winning the World Series in 2004.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Phox on December 12, 2011, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Halloween?

Just looked into it. Red Sox winning the World Series in 2004.
Dude knows how to celebrate.  :lol:
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Zero on December 12, 2011, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Halloween?

Just looked into it. Red Sox winning the World Series in 2004.
Dude knows how to celebrate.  :lol:

I guess he's supposed to look like Manny Ramirez?
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Phox on December 12, 2011, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Zero on December 12, 2011, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Halloween?

Just looked into it. Red Sox winning the World Series in 2004.
Dude knows how to celebrate.  :lol:

I guess he's supposed to look like Manny Ramirez?
Who cares? He's up there giving a speech or something in a fucking dread wig.  :lulz:
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: Doktor Zero on December 12, 2011, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Zero on December 12, 2011, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Halloween?

Just looked into it. Red Sox winning the World Series in 2004.
Dude knows how to celebrate.  :lol:

I guess he's supposed to look like Manny Ramirez?
Who cares? He's up there giving a speech or something in a fucking dread wig.  :lulz:

Hehe, point.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 10:45:12 PM
Sorry, but none of your mayors hold a candle to mine:

(http://www.acmeclimateaction.com/files/imagecache/acmewatch_full/watch/boris-johnson-yawn_667484n.jpg)

Ladies and gentleman, I present Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Freeky on December 12, 2011, 10:46:31 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 10:45:12 PM
Sorry, but none of your mayors hold a candle to mine:

(http://www.acmeclimateaction.com/files/imagecache/acmewatch_full/watch/boris-johnson-yawn_667484n.jpg)

Ladies and gentleman, I present Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

I am laughing so hard at this.  :lol: 
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 12, 2011, 10:48:24 PM
:golfclap: Yeah, I think you win. :D
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 10:56:12 PM
In his own words:

QuoteHoward is a dynamic performer on many levels. There you are. He sent me to Liverpool. Marvellous place. Howard was the most effective Home Secretary since Peel. Hang on, was Peel Home Secretary?

QuoteI don't see why people are so snooty about Channel 5. It has some respectable documentaries about the Second World War. It also devotes considerable airtime to investigations into lap dancing, and other related and vital subjects.

Quote"What has the BBC come to? Toilets, that's what"

QuoteIt is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Blair is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.

QuoteI have not had an affair with Petronella. It is complete balderdash. It is an inverted pyramid of piffle. It is all completely untrue and ludicrous conjecture. I am amazed people can write this drivel.

QuoteThere may be a reason I can't think of but the problem with that reason is that I can't think of it now.

QuoteWe're moving irresistably towards a conclusion.

QuoteWhat transaction happened here? Have I just bought your house?

QuoteI think I was once given cocaine but I sneezed so it didn't go up my nose. In fact, it may have been icing sugar.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Phox on December 12, 2011, 10:56:26 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 10:45:12 PM
Sorry, but none of your mayors hold a candle to mine:

(http://www.acmeclimateaction.com/files/imagecache/acmewatch_full/watch/boris-johnson-yawn_667484n.jpg)

Ladies and gentleman, I present Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
I am imagining a blingtastic bejeweled crown just out of the frame.  :lulz:
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cain on December 12, 2011, 11:07:16 PM
And just in case you were wondering:

Quote from: Ian Hislop, editor of Private Eye magazinePeople always ask me the same question, they say, 'Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?' And I always say, 'No.'

Or as Frankie Boyle put it:

QuoteHe's the sort of person who 200 years ago would have died aged 30 leading a cavalry charge into a volcano.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on December 12, 2011, 11:08:42 PM
:lulz:
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: East Coast Hustle on December 12, 2011, 11:14:09 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Zero on December 12, 2011, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 12, 2011, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 12, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Halloween?

Just looked into it. Red Sox winning the World Series in 2004.
Dude knows how to celebrate.  :lol:

I guess he's supposed to look like Manny Ramirez?

Needs more PEDs. :lulz:
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 12, 2011, 11:25:52 PM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 10:45:12 PM
Sorry, but none of your mayors hold a candle to mine:

(http://www.acmeclimateaction.com/files/imagecache/acmewatch_full/watch/boris-johnson-yawn_667484n.jpg)

Ladies and gentleman, I present Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

:lulz: Holy shit.
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 12, 2011, 11:28:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 12, 2011, 10:05:46 PM
Quote from: Nigel on December 12, 2011, 10:04:03 PM
This is our previous mayor, who was kind of awesome:

(http://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/03/gcelebrities/Vera_Katz-2.jpg)


AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I KNOW, RIGHT?

During her era, Portlanders would say "Can't sleep, Vera will eat me!"
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Juana on December 13, 2011, 12:15:42 AM
:lulz: Nice!
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Kurt Christ on December 13, 2011, 12:50:27 AM
Quote from: Cain on December 12, 2011, 10:56:12 PM
QuoteThere may be a reason I can't think of but the problem with that reason is that I can't think of it now.
QuoteI think I was once given cocaine but I sneezed so it didn't go up my nose. In fact, it may have been icing sugar.
Newsfeed?
Title: Re: Obama blinked.
Post by: Cramulus on December 13, 2011, 01:05:30 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 12, 2011, 07:58:11 PM
So how do I chose vote?




I'm 76.9% serious, because this broken system is still better than any system currently employed for choosing a government than I can think of right now.

Here's my scheme how I vote:

I'm a registered republican (I love wasting their postage and wasting their time on the phone)

and I enjoy the act of voting. The seniors who check your ID are so friendly. I getting my dice warmed up before I go into the booth. I like to pretend I'm voting for IMPERATOR or something really important. Honestly, I don't think my vote really makes any difference. But I want to play participate in democracy anyway!


Vote RANDOMOCRAT


One game is to limit yourself to one reroll per election. That you still have a little bit of choice, and the excitement builds as you move across the ballots. HMMM, should use my reroll on that dickbag?

If the headline news is PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION COMES DOWN TO ONE VOTE I will reevaluate this tragedy of the commons. I feel like I've invented this SUPER HIGH STAKES game that's more exciting because I only get to play every four years.