FACT: Your children's toys are training them...

[LMNO]

First:  There should be a game called "Friendly Fire."




Second:  LEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOY JENKINS!

[DJRubberducky]

Research: Playing FPS video games improves eyesight

[Bo]

...to use tomorrow's weapons.

Is that a bad thing?
I guess not. For some reason children like to play with weapons; been like that for ages and will probably never change. problems start when you cannot anymore distinguish games from reality. (Is this something that's harder with computer games?)

[rygD]

When was the last game that allowed for weapons to jam or break?  Or for you convoy to be bombed by your own side due to a stupid mistake?  That factored in moral and fatigue and the physical effects of having your positioned shelled?  How many games will make it impossible for you to use your arm if it is shot?  Or blur your vision due to blood and sweat?

I know a handful of games have incorporated some of these.  2 that I know of include Gears of War and America's Army (or at least it did years ago when I played a copy of it a friend downloaded from the U.S. Army propoganda site).  Some of these have been in games for years.

Of course, all this is irrelevant, because its not physical training that goes into this.  Its mental, mainly pseudospeciation.  If you get used to killing the "designated enemy" without a thought as to why, you're going to be a better soldier, once your combat training is completed.

The purpose of America's Army was mainly propoganda.  I have heard that they may want to use some aspects of it for actual simulated training (I remember seeing a news story or some shit where they had a guy inside a ball and there were sensors to tell how he was moving.  I don't remember what else they said because I was stuck visualising this guy as a hamster).  Can't say I fully understood what you meant by "designated enemy".  If I understood it correctly, and it meant what Cybin said...

...US Army want to teach kids that the guy with the turban on his head is a target, not a person.

Then you are both fools believing what the left wing media is putting out there.  U.S. Forces have always worked hand in hand with local populations.  They also demand that these people be treated with respect, and they are.  People who do not are punished.

As for the training aspect of it, I cannot recall the name of it right now, but there is a system thet uses a computer and projector as well as modified mock wearons that are used for situational training.  They have several scenarios that play out any of several different ways.  Sometimes you shoot, sometimes you don't.   If you do shoot and are not supposed to the simulation stops and you have to explain why you shot (this is to ensure that American troops do not end up like the guys from the UK that were shooting at people throwing rocks that I saw in a video somewhere).  If you hit the person in a non lethal place I believe they react appropriately.  If you kill them, they die.

Also, for more realistic training there is supposed to be paint rounds that can be used with the soldiers weapon, but I have neither seen nor read anything about these.  They have also updated the MILES gear, and it is now more responsive and accurate, as well as much lighter.  It also has disadvantages, but provides fairly decent training opportunities and can be used in a very realistic manner.

Both JRTC and NTC provide realistic training, and at many installations they have training areas that have the same type of training.  All of these scenarios have you trying to decide who is trying to help you, who is trying to hurt you, and who is a bystander  (it is safe to assume that they are not in this third catagory if they are still there once the shit hits the fan, unless they are idiots).

[hunter s.durden]

rygD, what's your military backround?

[P3nT4gR4m]

enlighten us Hunter - is the correct term for a person firing gun at you "human",  or is it something slightly less personal?

[hunter s.durden]

You were wrong Silly. We went specific. Terms like "father of 3","only child", and "man forced into service so local militia fanatics wouldn't rape, behead, and rape his wife."

[hunter s.durden]

There is a book out there called "On Killing".  Haven't had time to finish reading, and as much as I hate the guy I like what he has to say. 

Please finish this book.

[rygD]

Wasn't my book, and I don't have it right now.  I am not too fond of the author, so I refuse to buy it, but will get around to it in a month or so.  Why do you suggest I finish it?

As for your question, I just like to read the news, or something.

[hunter s.durden]

Because the book directly pertains to this topic.

Some of your ideas about how military personel think of enemy combatants (not people or fellow human, they are targets), and how the military treats the local population are somewhat distorted.

To add something:
Yes there are paint rounds. Yes it is good training.
MILES gear is garbage. It is a shitty training tool.

[rygD]

If the individual allows themselves to be brainwashed, then I can understand that point of view, and I, perhaps luckily, have not encountered as many of these types as one might think.

I will do some research on the paint rounds when I have time.

I thought the old MILES stuff was bullshit, but thought the new stuff to be less worthless.  Didn't get to fuck with it enough to thoroughly test it out, but they seemed to fix a few of the major issues with the older shit.  I would love to compare it to the paint rounds, but just like paintball, you can hide that you have been shot.

[Triple Zero]

If the individual allows themselves to be brainwashed

afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.

[P3nT4gR4m]

If the individual allows themselves to be brainwashed

afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.

I suspect you might be able to get away with it right up until the curtain rose on the theatre of war.

[hunter s.durden]

Every Marine gets brainwashed. Pure and simple. It's how you become a Marine.

I've used and trained with both. Comparison done.

[rygD]

afaik, you cannot really join the army and not allow yourself be brainwashed.

Only the weak would claim this, the U.S. Army has greatly watered down the process that used to result in those freshly scrubbed minds over the last several decades,so those aren't the results anymore.  Unless you happen to be in a unit that enforces high standards and discipline, and are open to their bullshit (such as the 82nd Airborne Division, which is my big problem with Grossman), you are not likely to be any different than you were before you joined, only in better shape, and with a bit more knowledge.

Also, make sure that you do not get being brainwashed and conforming to standards to be the same thing.  You may seem to live by the laws of a nation when in the eye of the public, but not behind closed doors.  Now, though, in the Army this isn't neccessary in most situations.  Even the new uniforms make it easier on you, no pressing the uniforms (will ruin them), no shining the boots.

I suspect you might be able to get away with it right up until the curtain rose on the theatre of war.

It seems that today, aside from combat arms and a few lucky individuals, most people do not see combat.  The most your average soldier experiences is attacks on their FOB.

Every Marine gets brainwashed. Pure and simple. It's how you become a Marine.

I've used and trained with both. Comparison done.

I would say that for the most part this is true about Marines...haven't found a single one yet that proves this wrong.

I don't want your fucking comparison, what was the last MILES gear you used?  I refuse to argue about this kind of bullshit, but unless I can understand your opinion completely it is worthless to me.