Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: Reverend Loveshade on August 13, 2008, 02:50:18 AM

Title: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 13, 2008, 02:50:18 AM
BloodStar Presents:

Five Blind Men and an Elephant*

being by
Reverend Uncle BadTouch,

Episkopos of the Discordian Division of the Ek-sen-triks CluborGuild
who ripped it off from the Hindus/Jainists


(We realize that, in the era of the very late 20th century as this is being written, the title and
content of this story are politically incorrect. We apologize for any discomfort, but ask you to
remember that the original story was created long before political correctness, and is not intended
in any way to be offensive to elephants.)


One day five blind men, who knew nothing of elephants, went to examine one to find out what it
was. Reaching out randomly, each touched it in a different spot. One man touched the side, one an
ear, one a leg, one a tusk, and one the trunk.  Each satisfied that he now knew the true nature of
the beast, they all sat down to discuss it.

"We now know that the elephant is like a wall," said the one who touched the side. "The evidence
is conclusive."

"I believe you are mistaken, sir," said the one who touched an ear. "The elephant is more like a large
fan."

"You are both wrong," said the leg man. "The creature is obviously like a tree."

"A tree?" questioned the tusk toucher. "How can you mistake a spear for a tree?"

"What?" said the trunk feeler. "A spear is long and round, but anyone knows it doesn't move.
Couldn't you feel the muscles? It's definitely a type of snake! A blind man could see that!" said the
fifth blind man.

The argument grew more heated, and finally escalated into a battle, for each of the five had
followers. This became known as the Battle of the Five Armies (not to be mistaken for the one
described by that Tolkien fellow).

However, before they could totally destroy themselves, a blind, self-declared Discordian oracle
came along to see what all the fuss was about. While they were beating the crap out of each other,
she examined the elephant. But instead of stopping after one feel, Eristotle touched the whole thing,
including the tail, which felt like a rope.  "It's just a big animal with big sides, ears, feet, tusk teeth,
nose and a skinny tail," she thought. "What a bunch of fools these guys are."

Then Eristotle said, "Stop! I have discovered the truth. I know who is right."

She being an oracle and all, they stopped and listened and said, "tell us!"

"I have examined the elephant with mine own two hands," she said, "and I find that you are all
right."

"How can this be?" they asked. "Can an elephant be a wall and a fan and a tree and a spear and a
snake?" And they were sorely confused.

Eristotle explained "the elephant is a great Tree, and on this tree grow leaves like great Fans to give
most wondrous shade and fan the breeze. And the branches of this tree are like Spears to protect it.
For this is the Tree of Creation and of Eternal Life, and the Great Serpent hangs still upon it.

"Unfortunately, it is hidden behind a great Wall, which is why it was not discovered until this very
day. It cannot be reached by normal means.

"However I, in my wisdom, have discovered a Most Holy Rope, by which the wall may be climbed.
And if one touches the tree in the proper manner which I alone know, you will gain Eternal Life."

They all became highly interested in this, of course.

Eristotle then named an extremely high price for her services (Eternal Life doesn't come cheap),
and made quite a bundle.



Moral: Anyone can lead blind men to an elephant, but a Discordian can charge admission.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 13, 2008, 02:51:07 AM
"This story by Reverend Uncle BadTouch has appeared in the 1995 online Non-Existent Apocrypha Discordia, the 2001 Apocrypha Discordia (which is a distinct work--this is the only story common to both of them), Apocrypha Diskordia (German Version of the 2001 work), Book of Eris, Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht, and Principia Harmonia. It is also the subject of a commentary by Al Barger, candidate for the United States Senate.  It has been released into the public domain."

I would like to clarify that this story, which also appears on Baron von Hoopla's site, does not technically appear in ED:TToS as the book is not yet completed, but it is planned for the work.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 13, 2008, 03:56:43 AM
dude, just fucking stop already.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Golden Applesauce on August 13, 2008, 04:40:43 AM
When I tell the elephant story, one man announces that the elephant consists is a nothing more than a protein sheath around a segment of RNA that causes disease, another that the elephant is about four inches long with pronounced incisors and powerful rear legs for jumping, another that the elephant has a tough fibrous body which converts uses sunlight to convert CO2 into sugars, another that an elephant is a gently pulsing blob of slime, and the last that it is a crystal lattice of sodium and chloride ions.

I really don't like syncretionists.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 13, 2008, 05:16:38 AM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 13, 2008, 02:51:07 AM
"This story by Reverend Uncle BadTouch has appeared in the 1995 online Non-Existent Apocrypha Discordia, the 2001 Apocrypha Discordia (which is a distinct work--this is the only story common to both of them), Apocrypha Diskordia (German Version of the 2001 work), Book of Eris, Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht, and Principia Harmonia. It is also the subject of a commentary by Al Barger, candidate for the United States Senate.  It has been released into the public domain."

I would like to clarify that this story, which also appears on Baron von Hoopla's site, does not technically appear in ED:TToS as the book is not yet completed, but it is planned for the work.

Nobody fucking cares. Besides, didn't you steal that version of the story from Camden Benares? Fucking lamer.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Requia ☣ on August 13, 2008, 06:09:28 AM
Uncle BadTouch: You are a useless prick, your story is lame moralizing, and the ending could be seen from a mile away.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Littlest Ubermensch on August 13, 2008, 06:33:11 AM
You know when someone makes an ass out of themselves by trying way too hard to "fit in"? You're doing that, and it's been happening again and again. Everybody notices.

You know what makes it even more pathetic? When it's done by someone who's clearly too god damn old for that and it's been going on for AT LEAST 13 years. That story was first published in 1995, and you've managed to look back at it 13 years later and still go "it would be a good idea to show this to the world." You're quite the little bundle of change and growth, aren't you?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 13, 2008, 07:45:56 AM
Too Uncle BadTouch, didn't read.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 13, 2008, 07:47:22 AM
lol this piece of shit is 13 years old?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Triple Zero on August 13, 2008, 11:44:41 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on August 13, 2008, 07:47:22 AM
lol this piece of shit is 13 years old?

well, duh!

if it's not 13 years old, Uncle BadTouch wouldn't touch it.

:rimshot:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 13, 2008, 03:53:41 PM
:lulz:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: That One Guy on August 13, 2008, 04:17:25 PM
So he took one of the older, better-known Sufi/Hindi/Islamic parables (http://www.kheper.net/topics/blind_men_and_elephant/Sufi.html), changed the labels and slapped some "Discordian" crap onto it, and is now claiming it as his own - and potentially selling it?

Yeah ...
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 13, 2008, 07:56:13 PM
Hmmm.  I must have been having a slow week.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 13, 2008, 10:27:39 PM
Quote from: triple zero on August 13, 2008, 11:44:41 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on August 13, 2008, 07:47:22 AM
lol this piece of shit is 13 years old?

well, duh!

if it's not 13 years old, Uncle BadTouch wouldn't touch it.

:rimshot:

WIN.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 14, 2008, 05:08:58 AM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on August 13, 2008, 04:40:43 AM
When I tell the elephant story, one man announces that the elephant consists is a nothing more than a protein sheath around a segment of RNA that causes disease, another that the elephant is about four inches long with pronounced incisors and powerful rear legs for jumping, another that the elephant has a tough fibrous body which converts uses sunlight to convert CO2 into sugars, another that an elephant is a gently pulsing blob of slime, and the last that it is a crystal lattice of sodium and chloride ions.

I really don't like syncretists. (fixed)

Now that's a version of the story not even I've heard.  Cool.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: AFK on August 14, 2008, 01:05:59 PM
It's a cute story.  But seriously, Eristotle?  Couldn't you come up with a better name than that? 
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 14, 2008, 01:07:52 PM
ATTN Pedoshade: shut the fuck up and go back to 23AE.

Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 14, 2008, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 14, 2008, 05:08:58 AM
I really don't like syncretists. (fixed)

Why not?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 14, 2008, 01:12:12 PM
Its one of the 16 signs of Ur-Fascism.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 14, 2008, 01:15:10 PM
For realz?  How so?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 14, 2008, 01:20:34 PM
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html

1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition.

Traditionalism is of course much older than fascism. Not only was it typical of counterrevolutionary Catholic thought after the French revolution, but is was born in the late Hellenistic era, as a reaction to classical Greek rationalism. In the Mediterranean basin, people of different religions (most of the faiths indulgently accepted by the Roman pantheon) started dreaming of a revelation received at the dawn of human history. This revelation, according to the traditionalist mystique, had remained for a long time concealed under the veil of forgotten languages -- in Egyptian hieroglyphs, in the Celtic runes, in the scrolls of the little-known religions of Asia.

This new culture had to be syncretistic. Syncretism is not only, as the dictionary says, "the combination of different forms of belief or practice;" such a combination must tolerate contradictions. Each of the original messages contains a sliver of wisdom, and although they seem to say different or incompatible things, they all are nevertheless alluding, allegorically, to the same primeval truth.

As a consequence, there can be no advancement of learning. Truth already has been spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message.

If you browse in the shelves that, in American bookstores, are labeled New Age, you can find there even Saint Augustine, who, as far as I know, was not a fascist. But combining Saint Augustine and Stonehenge -- that is a symptom of Ur-Fascism.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 14, 2008, 01:23:26 PM
Interesting...  that's two signs of fascism I display then...
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Golden Applesauce on August 14, 2008, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 14, 2008, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 14, 2008, 05:08:58 AM
I really don't like syncretists. (fixed)

Why not?

One of Christianity's big points is that salvation can only come through God, specifically the form of Jesus of Nazareth.  To try to save yourself without God is essentially denying God.  Buddhism explicitly makes the statement that humans can discover the truth and thereby save themselves, without teachers or gods - and goes so far as to say that gods can't really help with enlightenment.  Syncretists would have you believe that both religions are simultaneously correct, describing different perspectives of the same truth as the various blind men are describing the same elephant.  Similarly, Mohammed was the last prophet... there just happen to be many other prophets (J. Smith, Baha'u'llah) of God who came later.  It's okay in that it doesn't say that any religion is wrong, it just recognizes that the people who say that that religion is wrong are also correct.

It's doublethink and compartmentalization of beliefs at a massive level under the banner of tolerance.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 14, 2008, 05:31:48 PM
That sounds as if you're taking both religions at full value... is that what syncretists do?  What if you only like pieces of different religions?

Uncle BadTouch's story certainly didn't include whole religions, just pieces.  Does it count?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 14, 2008, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: RWHN - on vacation on August 14, 2008, 01:05:59 PM
It's a cute story.  But seriously, Eristotle?  Couldn't you come up with a better name than that? 

Personally, I really like the name Eristotle, but I can't take credit for it.  This story existed for years without the prophet being named.  But some clever Discordians have created writings and a mythology dealing with Eristotle, so I jumped on the bandwagon, if rather later.  Yep, I ripped off the prophet's name, too.

Reverend "I'm a Rip-Off Artist but at least I admit it" Uncle BadTouch
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 14, 2008, 07:32:30 PM
Quote from: Nigel on August 13, 2008, 05:16:38 AM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 13, 2008, 02:51:07 AM
"This story by Reverend Uncle BadTouch has appeared in the 1995 online Non-Existent Apocrypha Discordia, the 2001 Apocrypha Discordia (which is a distinct work--this is the only story common to both of them), Apocrypha Diskordia (German Version of the 2001 work), Book of Eris, Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The Tales of Shamlicht, and Principia Harmonia. It is also the subject of a commentary by Al Barger, candidate for the United States Senate.  It has been released into the public domain."

I would like to clarify that this story, which also appears on Baron von Hoopla's site, does not technically appear in ED:TToS as the book is not yet completed, but it is planned for the work.

Nobody fucking cares. Besides, didn't you steal that version of the story from Camden Benares? Fucking lamer.

Did Camden Benares do a version of the elephant story?  Cool.  I just looked for it online, but didn't find it.  Do you know a link?  I'd love to read it.  Robert Anton Wilson did a version of the story too, but I didn't see RAW's until years after I wrote mine.  If I remember correctly, the good DrJon put RAW's in Apocrypha Discordia too.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 14, 2008, 07:41:23 PM
oh...so you just happened to write the exact same story as two other people without having read either story?

wow. not only are you pretentious and annoying, you're either really dumb or you think we're really dumb.

go be a namefag somewhere else.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 14, 2008, 07:45:45 PM
RAW's ends differently if memory serves, but yeah, basically the same. 

I haven't read the third version.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 14, 2008, 08:01:04 PM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on August 14, 2008, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 14, 2008, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 14, 2008, 05:08:58 AM
I really don't like syncretists. (fixed)

Why not?

One of Christianity's big points is that salvation can only come through God, specifically the form of Jesus of Nazareth.  To try to save yourself without God is essentially denying God.  Buddhism explicitly makes the statement that humans can discover the truth and thereby save themselves, without teachers or gods - and goes so far as to say that gods can't really help with enlightenment.  Syncretists would have you believe that both religions are simultaneously correct, describing different perspectives of the same truth as the various blind men are describing the same elephant.  Similarly, Mohammed was the last prophet... there just happen to be many other prophets (J. Smith, Baha'u'llah) of God who came later.  It's okay in that it doesn't say that any religion is wrong, it just recognizes that the people who say that that religion is wrong are also correct.

It's doublethink and compartmentalization of beliefs at a massive level under the banner of tolerance.

Interesting points.

Buddhism is essentially an atheistic religion; at least it's one where believing in gods is not a part of the mainstream belief.

You mention combining Buddhism and Christianity, in spite of their contradictions.  I think of modern Christianity itself as syncretistic.  In the Christian New Testament, it's presented as the fulfillment of Judaism (i.e., the prophets were all right about the Messiah, even if no one understood what they meant, but now we can explain it all to you--they all point to Jesus).  Every miracle attributed to Jesus of Nazareth was done in some form by a Jewish/Old Testament prophet (except, perhaps, for raising himself from the dead).

But look at the story of a man who was the son of god and a human virgin who died and raised from the dead.  That's both Jesus and Dionysus/Bacchus (who came before Jesus).

The modern day Christian version of Hell is largely from Greek mythology and Dante's Inferno, not from the Bible.  The wise men seeing the star and reading it as a sign in the heavens, and the book of Genesis specifically saying that stars are for signs, likely come from the religions of Persia and Babylon, respectively (the Jews generally weren't into astrology/astronomy).

Then the church in the European Middle Ages ironically added the teachings of a pantheistic Aristotle, and fought science because it disagreed with Aristotle (although some of the great works of science were, ironically, done by Christian monks).

But if you really want to find a syncretistic belief system, look at Discordianism.  It borrows from all over the place.  The difference is, Discordianism not only admits the borrowing, but accepts its own internal contradictions, something most religions don't do.

Personally, I think that Discordianism makes the most sense of any religion, because it admits its own nonsense.  At least in some sense.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 14, 2008, 08:20:00 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 14, 2008, 07:41:23 PM
oh...so you just happened to write the exact same story as two other people without having read either story?

wow. not only are you pretentious and annoying, you're either really dumb or you think we're really dumb.

go be a namefag somewhere else.

The story is an ancient one, and there are different versions of it all over the world.  It probably began in South Asia, but no one knows for sure.  If you notice in my heading, I say that I ripped it off.  Many people have done their own ripoffs, including Sam Gross, Robert Anton Wilson, John Godfrey Saxe (who wrote the most famous English-language version of the 19th century), and many others.  I figured if the Sufis, Jainists, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. could have their own version, why not write a Discordian version?

A friend of mine even used a version of the story in a Christian adult Sunday school class, of all places, and was asked by the church's pastor to present it to children's church.  It actually fits in well with the New Testament teaching that the eye can't say to the hand that, because you aren't an eye, the body doesn't need you.

I think that teaching applies to Discordians as well.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 14, 2008, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 14, 2008, 08:20:00 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 14, 2008, 07:41:23 PM
oh...so you just happened to write the exact same story as two other people without having read either story?

wow. not only are you pretentious and annoying, you're either really dumb or you think we're really dumb.

go be a namefag somewhere else.

The story is an ancient one, and there are different versions of it all over the world.  It probably began in South Asia, but no one knows for sure.  If you notice in my heading, I say that I ripped it off.  Many people have done their own ripoffs, including Sam Gross, Robert Anton Wilson, John Godfrey Saxe (who wrote the most famous English-language version of the 19th century), and many others.  I figured if the Sufis, Jainists, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. could have their own version, why not write a Discordian version?

A friend of mine even used a version of the story in a Christian adult Sunday school class, of all places, and was asked by the church's pastor to present it to children's church.  It actually fits in well with the New Testament teaching that the eye can't say to the hand that, because you aren't an eye, the body doesn't need you.

I think that teaching applies to Discordians as well.

:lulz:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 14, 2008, 09:38:58 PM
Uncle BadTouch, maybe if you stop trying to be a guru for a couple of minutes, it will sink in that everyone else here is a guru, too, and that trying to force-feed others your old, stale sunday-school lessons just makes you come off as a self-important condescending asshat.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 14, 2008, 09:43:46 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 14, 2008, 01:23:26 PM
Interesting...  that's two signs of fascism I display then...

Syncretism and knowing Enrico?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on August 14, 2008, 09:49:54 PM
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on August 14, 2008, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 14, 2008, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 14, 2008, 05:08:58 AM
I really don't like syncretists. (fixed)

Why not?

One of Christianity's big points is that salvation can only come through God, specifically the form of Jesus of Nazareth.  To try to save yourself without God is essentially denying God.  Buddhism explicitly makes the statement that humans can discover the truth and thereby save themselves, without teachers or gods - and goes so far as to say that gods can't really help with enlightenment.  Syncretists would have you believe that both religions are simultaneously correct, describing different perspectives of the same truth as the various blind men are describing the same elephant.  Similarly, Mohammed was the last prophet... there just happen to be many other prophets (J. Smith, Baha'u'llah) of God who came later.  It's okay in that it doesn't say that any religion is wrong, it just recognizes that the people who say that that religion is wrong are also correct.

It's doublethink and compartmentalization of beliefs at a massive level under the banner of tolerance.

I'm a few posts late for this, but I'd just like to point out that the idea that Christianity demands you be saved "through Jesus" is only one interpretation. When Jesus says "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light; no man comes to the Father but by me," he could just as easily have been saying "What I am is the way... no man comes to the Father but by being what I am." It's a matter of how you read the language. It sort of works that way in English, and I suspect that interpretation would work even better in whatever language the passage was written in.

As to syncretism - I think all religions are true in that they are similar, and they are similar in that people everywhere are similarly stupid and superstitious.

Also the premise of the OP is completely false: a Discordian would generally not give two shits about charging admission -- we'd leave that to the Subgenii.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 14, 2008, 10:10:22 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 14, 2008, 09:43:46 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 14, 2008, 01:23:26 PM
Interesting...  that's two signs of fascism I display then...

Syncretism and knowing Enrico?

Shit. Three.


I'm also resistant to trying new foods, which I read somewhere was also a sign of fascist personality.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 14, 2008, 10:26:47 PM
Actually, I read that report, and it said nothing of the type.  This is the actual article it came from:

QuoteThe guide goes on to warn that children might also "react negatively to a culinary tradition other than their own by saying 'yuk'".

Staff are told: "No racist incident should be ignored. When there is a clear racist incident, it is necessary to be specific in condemning the action."

Now, if you were a sleazy and disreputable reporter, you could read into that an implication which the former is racist.  However, it was in reference to the larger subsection of the paper, not the immediately preceeding sentence.

So yeah, tabloids made up shit again.

Cain
loves teh curried foods, just like Hitler.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 14, 2008, 10:30:18 PM
Sweet!  I never have to eat anything I don't like again without fear of becoming a führer!
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reginald Ret on August 14, 2008, 10:51:32 PM
Bacchus died and rose from the dead?  :lulz:

he really is the god of hangovers!
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Reverend Loveshade on August 15, 2008, 01:00:34 AM
Quote from: vexati0n on August 14, 2008, 09:49:54 PM
Also the premise of the OP is completely false: a Discordian would generally not give two shits about charging admission -- we'd leave that to the Subgenii.

Excellente!  I thought of that when I wrote it, but have never seen anyone point it out before.  :D
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 15, 2008, 03:07:38 AM
Vex, you win a gold star because you thought of something the Master already thought of! Good boy!
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 15, 2008, 04:15:16 AM
Quote from: vexati0n on August 14, 2008, 09:49:54 PM
Also the premise of the OP is completely false: a Discordian would generally not give two shits about charging admission -- we'd leave that to the Subgenii.

Actually, "Bob" will charge you to get out.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 15, 2008, 04:15:43 AM
Quote from: Nigel on August 14, 2008, 09:38:58 PM
Uncle BadTouch, maybe if you stop trying to be a guru for a couple of minutes, it will sink in that everyone else here is a guru, too, and that trying to force-feed others your old, stale sunday-school lessons just makes you come off as a self-important condescending asshat.

This.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Mangrove on August 15, 2008, 07:44:58 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 14, 2008, 10:30:18 PM
Sweet!  I never have to eat anything I don't like again without fear of becoming a führer!


Where does the 'Soup Nazi' fit into this?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on August 17, 2008, 03:02:26 PM
Sorry I'm late!
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OVER 9,000 LINES OF TEXT!
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Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 07:54:07 AM
:lulz:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 18, 2008, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 14, 2008, 08:01:04 PM

Buddhism is essentially an atheistic religion; at least it's one where believing in gods is not a part of the mainstream belief.


Buddhism is not athiestic. An athiestic religion would require nonbelief in gods. Instead, Buddhism is nonthiestic, meaning that the Buddha had nothing more to say about gods than that they were unable to help us with our enlightenment. He actually encouraged people to practice their own religions along with his teachings (told someone who asked what they should do to be with Brahma(god) when they die, and he gave the teaching of the Bramhavadas, the four immesurable minds). In fact, I don't even consider classical Buddhism a religion, because religions by nature contain some sort of dogma that must be followed. In Buddhism there are several warnings against teachers, and one is taught to examine the teachings in order to understand if they work or not. The Buddha didn't require anyone to believe anything, that wasn't what he was trying to achieve; rather, he wished to free all beings from suffering, found a way to do that, and found a way to share that message with people.

Why haven't you gone away yet?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 04:39:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on August 14, 2008, 08:01:04 PM

Buddhism is essentially an atheistic religion; at least it's one where believing in gods is not a part of the mainstream belief.


Buddhism is not athiestic. An athiestic religion would require nonbelief in gods. Instead, Buddhism is nonthiestic, meaning that the Buddha had nothing more to say about gods than that they were unable to help us with our enlightenment. He actually encouraged people to practice their own religions along with his teachings (told someone who asked what they should do to be with Brahma(god) when they die, and he gave the teaching of the Bramhavadas, the four immesurable minds). In fact, I don't even consider classical Buddhism a religion, because religions by nature contain some sort of dogma that must be followed. In Buddhism there are several warnings against teachers, and one is taught to examine the teachings in order to understand if they work or not. The Buddha didn't require anyone to believe anything, that wasn't what he was trying to achieve; rather, he wished to free all beings from suffering, found a way to do that, and found a way to share that message with people.

Why haven't you gone away yet?

You don't think Buddhism has dogma?

:lol:

What rock have you been living under and would you like your steak rare?

Perhaps with a side of lamb chops?

Why does every Dalai Llama always end up having a dick?

Also, there are so many better reasons to pick at LS for, you're going to get into semantics?

I thought you fuckin HATED semantics.

Finally, I've heard Buddhist teachers mock belief in gods and empty rituals then turn around and yammer about Gotama "the enlightened one" like he wasn't just another huckster selling the Correct Way to Live™ and decry any meditation that ever so slightly modifies the Correct Way to Meditate™.

I like you dude, but come on.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 18, 2008, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

It had something to do with E-meters and auditing, didn't it?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on August 18, 2008, 06:21:08 PM
Quote from: ten ton mantis on August 17, 2008, 03:02:26 PM
Sorry I'm late!
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Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 18, 2008, 06:26:05 PM
Shouldn't you be waiting until Uncle BadTouch responds to post that?

Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 06:35:44 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

It had something to do with E-meters and auditing, didn't it?

How about you smash your dickhead with a mallet, it's not as bad as dunking it in a tank full of wild piranas.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 18, 2008, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 06:35:44 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

It had something to do with E-meters and auditing, didn't it?

How about you smash your dickhead with a mallet, it's not as bad as dunking it in a tank full of wild piranas.


:tao&evt:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 06:35:44 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 06:16:13 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

It had something to do with E-meters and auditing, didn't it?

How about you smash your dickhead with a mallet, it's not as bad as dunking it in a tank full of wild piranas.


:tao&evt:

:monkeydance:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 18, 2008, 06:55:09 PM
 :noodledance:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: AFK on August 18, 2008, 06:59:36 PM
:hammer:

I can join dance party?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on August 18, 2008, 07:07:09 PM
ALL YUO NEED IS A SONG IN YUOR HAERT!
\
:troll:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 18, 2008, 07:37:03 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

Did you not note where I said Classical Buddhism? I meant the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama taken in their original contexts, not the esoterica of modern followings, not the reincarnation of Lamas or tantra or even Zen Koans.

Someone smart points to the moon and people look at his finger, and then their own fingers, and then they start killing or discriminating against anyone whos fingers look different. Its the general progression of any philosophical path in history.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 07:37:03 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

Did you not note where I said Classical Buddhism? I meant the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama taken in their original contexts, not the esoterica of modern followings, not the reincarnation of Lamas or tantra or even Zen Koans.

Someone smart points to the moon and people look at his finger, and then their own fingers, and then they start killing or discriminating against anyone whos fingers look different. Its the general progression of any philosophical path in history.

Links, pls.

Because all I see in buddhism is a bunch of people claiming their sect is the true contextualization of Gotama's teachings.

What makes your claim more valid?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 18, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
Uh oh... Net's an EXPERT again!!
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3696/coyotekd3.jpg)

Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 18, 2008, 08:04:25 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 07:37:03 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

Did you not note where I said Classical Buddhism? I meant the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama taken in their original contexts, not the esoterica of modern followings, not the reincarnation of Lamas or tantra or even Zen Koans.

Someone smart points to the moon and people look at his finger, and then their own fingers, and then they start killing or discriminating against anyone whos fingers look different. Its the general progression of any philosophical path in history.

Links, pls.

Because all I see in buddhism is a bunch of people claiming their sect is the true contextualization of Gotama's teachings.

What makes your claim more valid?

Thats the rub isn't it? I can't really back it up. In fact, it would have been smart of me to never have replied in this thread. However, I also  have no plans to go out and start a monestary set up under the true realizations in the original context as I have been personally inspired to see it. Yes, there are filters to the information I can obtain about Gautama's teachings. The Pali cannon, what is considered the oldest lineage of the Dhamma, was remember verbally for centuries before it was written down. By that point, only one monk remembered the whole of the teachings, and he was very arrogant about it. You might say that this is not a good source for a philosophical path, but its the closest thing we have to the original. And even then, you have to study carefully, in context, because who knows who changed what to suit their wants at some time in the past. It it seems off, it might be. Thats why Gautama said you have to test his teachings, find them to be true from experience or discard them. That /really/ doesn't sound like something someone trying to start a religion to get followers would say, "question your faith, and if it seems wrong, don't follow it".

But I guess it must seem impossible to a misanthrope such as your self that someone would ever genuinely want to help people relieve their suffering, find a way to do it, and then share it with people without selfishly expecting a return in goods, services, or simply control/power, right?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 18, 2008, 10:27:58 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 07:37:03 PM

Someone smart points to the moon and people look at his finger, and then their own fingers, and then they start killing or discriminating against anyone whos fingers look different. Its the general progression of any philosophical path in history.

:mittens:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on August 18, 2008, 11:03:06 PM

AWWW SHIT! IT'S TIME FOR A REMIX!
\
:hosrie:

Quote from: ten ton mantis on August 18, 2008, 06:21:08 PM
Quote from: ten ton mantis on August 17, 2008, 03:02:26 PM
Sorry I'm late!
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Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 08:04:25 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 07:37:03 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

Did you not note where I said Classical Buddhism? I meant the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama taken in their original contexts, not the esoterica of modern followings, not the reincarnation of Lamas or tantra or even Zen Koans.

Someone smart points to the moon and people look at his finger, and then their own fingers, and then they start killing or discriminating against anyone whos fingers look different. Its the general progression of any philosophical path in history.

Links, pls.

Because all I see in buddhism is a bunch of people claiming their sect is the true contextualization of Gotama's teachings.

What makes your claim more valid?

Thats the rub isn't it? I can't really back it up. In fact, it would have been smart of me to never have replied in this thread. However, I also  have no plans to go out and start a monestary set up under the true realizations in the original context as I have been personally inspired to see it. Yes, there are filters to the information I can obtain about Gautama's teachings. The Pali cannon, what is considered the oldest lineage of the Dhamma, was remember verbally for centuries before it was written down. By that point, only one monk remembered the whole of the teachings, and he was very arrogant about it. You might say that this is not a good source for a philosophical path, but its the closest thing we have to the original. And even then, you have to study carefully, in context, because who knows who changed what to suit their wants at some time in the past. It it seems off, it might be. Thats why Gautama said you have to test his teachings, find them to be true from experience or discard them. That /really/ doesn't sound like something someone trying to start a religion to get followers would say, "question your faith, and if it seems wrong, don't follow it".

But I guess it must seem impossible to a misanthrope such as your self that someone would ever genuinely want to help people relieve their suffering, find a way to do it, and then share it with people without selfishly expecting a return in goods, services, or simply control/power, right?

I genuinely want to help people, actually, but this doesn't mean what I do will be beneficial. Even Scientologists truly believe they are helping people.

I just don't subscribe to the belief that Gotama's way is the only way to relieve suffering, or the best way for most people. There's certainly something to it, but things such as vegetarianism, devaluing ego, and this fixation on maintaining a neutral affect just don't sit well with me to put it lightly.

I've tested various techniques and philosophies of buddhism and kept what resonates. The rest seems dogmatic, based on tradition and asks for too much faith in a fallible and dead primate. Sure, Gotama was clever and said to test his teachings and reject what doesn't line up with your experience, but that gets such little emphasis and development that it's not considered a core buddhist idea as far as I know.

Thanks for taking the time to share this, though. I'll look into the Pali canon. Are there any authors, historians or scholars that you recommend?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 11:12:00 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
Uh oh... Net's an EXPERT again!!
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3696/coyotekd3.jpg)



Isn't it about time to be a cowering sissy again and flounce?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 18, 2008, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:03:17 PMI genuinely want to help people, actually
:lol:

Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:03:17 PM
Even Scientologists truly believe they are helping people.
:lol:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 18, 2008, 11:42:29 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:03:17 PMI genuinely want to help people, actually
:lol:

Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:03:17 PM
Even Scientologists truly believe they are helping people.
:lol:

Brilliant. Enlightening. Profound.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 19, 2008, 12:14:16 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:12:00 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
Uh oh... Net's an EXPERT again!!
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3696/coyotekd3.jpg)



Isn't it about time to be a cowering sissy again and flounce?

Also, just for sport, I'd be willing to send $10 Canadian to anyone who
can find evidence of me 'flouncing' before that time a few months back when I went on vacation... I'm betting there isn't any.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 19, 2008, 12:24:25 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 08:04:25 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 18, 2008, 07:37:03 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I think Kai was referring to how Buddhism was set up, not what its become now.

I think Kai is fully capable of speaking for himself.

How do you think Buddhism was set up?

Did you not note where I said Classical Buddhism? I meant the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama taken in their original contexts, not the esoterica of modern followings, not the reincarnation of Lamas or tantra or even Zen Koans.

Someone smart points to the moon and people look at his finger, and then their own fingers, and then they start killing or discriminating against anyone whos fingers look different. Its the general progression of any philosophical path in history.

Links, pls.

Because all I see in buddhism is a bunch of people claiming their sect is the true contextualization of Gotama's teachings.

What makes your claim more valid?

Thats the rub isn't it? I can't really back it up. In fact, it would have been smart of me to never have replied in this thread. However, I also  have no plans to go out and start a monestary set up under the true realizations in the original context as I have been personally inspired to see it. Yes, there are filters to the information I can obtain about Gautama's teachings. The Pali cannon, what is considered the oldest lineage of the Dhamma, was remember verbally for centuries before it was written down. By that point, only one monk remembered the whole of the teachings, and he was very arrogant about it. You might say that this is not a good source for a philosophical path, but its the closest thing we have to the original. And even then, you have to study carefully, in context, because who knows who changed what to suit their wants at some time in the past. It it seems off, it might be. Thats why Gautama said you have to test his teachings, find them to be true from experience or discard them. That /really/ doesn't sound like something someone trying to start a religion to get followers would say, "question your faith, and if it seems wrong, don't follow it".

But I guess it must seem impossible to a misanthrope such as your self that someone would ever genuinely want to help people relieve their suffering, find a way to do it, and then share it with people without selfishly expecting a return in goods, services, or simply control/power, right?

I genuinely want to help people, actually, but this doesn't mean what I do will be beneficial. Even Scientologists truly believe they are helping people.

I just don't subscribe to the belief that Gotama's way is the only way to relieve suffering, or the best way for most people. There's certainly something to it, but things such as vegetarianism, devaluing ego, and this fixation on maintaining a neutral affect just don't sit well with me to put it lightly.

I've tested various techniques and philosophies of buddhism and kept what resonates. The rest seems dogmatic, based on tradition and asks for too much faith in a fallible and dead primate. Sure, Gotama was clever and said to test his teachings and reject what doesn't line up with your experience, but that gets such little emphasis and development that it's not considered a core buddhist idea as far as I know.

Thanks for taking the time to share this, though. I'll look into the Pali canon. Are there any authors, historians or scholars that you recommend?

On veganism, I don't believe that Siddhartha said that you /must/ follow it. From what I remember, he said that over time you will find yourself disliking eating meat because you see the suffering it causes, and thus will stop doing so. He never mandated vegetarianism as far as whats in the pali cannon, not even for monks I believe. I don't believe I've ever heard anything about ego devaluing, or maintaining a neutral effect. The teacher I like most is Thich Nhat Hanh, because he tends to cut through the bullshit that has been tacked on. I don't really trust the Dalai Lama because of his ties to the esoterica of tibetan buddhism, which seems to be alot of useless ritual, and that isn't to say that all ritual is useless either. I don't like pure land because it strikes me of being a buddhist version of christianity. I don't like Zen because enlightenment isn't just something that hits you, you have to work at it, and it requires alot of deep looking. I don't like any type of buddhism that demands fealty to its teachings, or puts too much hold in studying esoterica or chanting with gongs or whatev. I don't hold any stock in traditions that don't hold to the base of the noble truths, the eightfold path, and the four establishments of mindfulness. In any type of buddhist community I might pursue being a part of, I would make sure that mindfulness, above all, is the focus. This also tends to be the focus of Nhat Hanh and his teachings have been very useful to me, so I follow them because experience in things working have lead me to believe he's got a pretty good idea of what need doing. He also advocates social action, which is pretty important as well. I have also read a book by Noah Levine, Against the Stream, its a very nice modern approach for younger people. Levine was a punk rocker that came into buddhism after losing his life to violence and drugs and was institutionalized, and then he started meditating and it gave him his life back. Either of those two authors are good because they reject the sectarianism that goes on in buddhism. I believe Nhat Hanh has actually done quite a bit of Christian-Buddhist dialogue, and was even nominated for the Nobel Peace Price by MLK Jr.

So, I suggest Nhat Hanh's Heart of the Buddha's Teachings, and actually, I suggest Anger: Wisdom for cooling the flames, because its a book that really helped me understand how to care for my anger, and the methods are useful for any powerful emotion really. I've read other stuff but I don't find any other teacher nearly as candid, straightforward, or helpful.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 19, 2008, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2008, 12:14:16 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:12:00 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
Uh oh... Net's an EXPERT again!!
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3696/coyotekd3.jpg)



Isn't it about time to be a cowering sissy again and flounce?

Also, just for sport, I'd be willing to send $10 Canadian to anyone who
can find evidence of me 'flouncing' before that time a few months back when I went on vacation... I'm betting there isn't any.

Nothing says I'm confident like 10 WHOLE DOLLARS!!

:lol:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 19, 2008, 01:14:02 AM
Quote from: Kai on August 19, 2008, 12:24:25 AM
**snip**

On veganism, I don't believe that Siddhartha said that you /must/ follow it. From what I remember, he said that over time you will find yourself disliking eating meat because you see the suffering it causes, and thus will stop doing so. He never mandated vegetarianism as far as whats in the pali cannon, not even for monks I believe. I don't believe I've ever heard anything about ego devaluing, or maintaining a neutral effect. The teacher I like most is Thich Nhat Hanh, because he tends to cut through the bullshit that has been tacked on. I don't really trust the Dalai Lama because of his ties to the esoterica of tibetan buddhism, which seems to be alot of useless ritual, and that isn't to say that all ritual is useless either. I don't like pure land because it strikes me of being a buddhist version of christianity. I don't like Zen because enlightenment isn't just something that hits you, you have to work at it, and it requires alot of deep looking. I don't like any type of buddhism that demands fealty to its teachings, or puts too much hold in studying esoterica or chanting with gongs or whatev. I don't hold any stock in traditions that don't hold to the base of the noble truths, the eightfold path, and the four establishments of mindfulness. In any type of buddhist community I might pursue being a part of, I would make sure that mindfulness, above all, is the focus. This also tends to be the focus of Nhat Hanh and his teachings have been very useful to me, so I follow them because experience in things working have lead me to believe he's got a pretty good idea of what need doing. He also advocates social action, which is pretty important as well. I have also read a book by Noah Levine, Against the Stream, its a very nice modern approach for younger people. Levine was a punk rocker that came into buddhism after losing his life to violence and drugs and was institutionalized, and then he started meditating and it gave him his life back. Either of those two authors are good because they reject the sectarianism that goes on in buddhism. I believe Nhat Hanh has actually done quite a bit of Christian-Buddhist dialogue, and was even nominated for the Nobel Peace Price by MLK Jr.

So, I suggest Nhat Hanh's Heart of the Buddha's Teachings, and actually, I suggest Anger: Wisdom for cooling the flames, because its a book that really helped me understand how to care for my anger, and the methods are useful for any powerful emotion really. I've read other stuff but I don't find any other teacher nearly as candid, straightforward, or helpful.

Thanks Kai, that means a lot to me.

Mindfulness is the main idea I stole from Buddhism. Good times.

I'm finna go check out some more Thich stuff, all I've read are shorter pieces.

Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 19, 2008, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 19, 2008, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2008, 12:14:16 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:12:00 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
Uh oh... Net's an EXPERT again!!
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3696/coyotekd3.jpg)



Isn't it about time to be a cowering sissy again and flounce?

Also, just for sport, I'd be willing to send $10 Canadian to anyone who
can find evidence of me 'flouncing' before that time a few months back when I went on vacation... I'm betting there isn't any.

Nothing says I'm confident like 10 WHOLE DOLLARS!!

:lol:

So... you're a font snob, a religion expert, a homophobe, but no cheapskate.  What else can I add to your resume?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on August 19, 2008, 03:29:51 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2008, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 19, 2008, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 19, 2008, 12:14:16 AM
Quote from: Netaungrot on August 18, 2008, 11:12:00 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 18, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
Uh oh... Net's an EXPERT again!!
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3696/coyotekd3.jpg)



Isn't it about time to be a cowering sissy again and flounce?

Also, just for sport, I'd be willing to send $10 Canadian to anyone who
can find evidence of me 'flouncing' before that time a few months back when I went on vacation... I'm betting there isn't any.

Nothing says I'm confident like 10 WHOLE DOLLARS!!

:lol:

So... you're a font snob, a religion expert, a homophobe, but no cheapskate.  What else can I add to your resume?

How am I homophobe?

:lol:

A while back I cared what you thought.

You're full of fail these days.

Get bent.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Littlest Ubermensch on August 19, 2008, 05:36:22 AM
I too am curious as to what makes Net a homophobe. I must've missed that controversy.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 19, 2008, 08:29:45 AM
I claim dibs on harassing Net over fontsnobbery! That's MY schtick, back off!  :argh!:

There is not a damn thing wrong with having opinions on religion. Also, Kai is more than capable of defending his position if he chooses.

Net comes off abrasively online at times, as do I, but I can tell you that in person he's the exact opposite of abrasive. He's a good guy.

As for him being a homophobe... I call bullshit. Never seen the slightest evidence for that.


Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 19, 2008, 01:16:01 PM
EDIT:  forget it, it ain't worth it.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 19, 2008, 05:33:44 PM
Well, at the very least, PD.com provides entertainment... IN SOME SENSE.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 19, 2008, 05:42:52 PM
For the record, I said 'homophobic' because of Net's "whimpering sissy" comment, but I now regret saying that
since I know that wasn't his intention.

Sometimes I hit below the belt.

I apologize for referring to you as a homophobe, Net.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 19, 2008, 06:26:27 PM
Quote from: Nigel on August 19, 2008, 08:29:45 AM
Also, Kai is more than capable of defending his position if he chooses.

And HOW~!
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 20, 2008, 12:12:26 AM
Since when has "sissy" meant homosexual? 
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 20, 2008, 12:15:16 AM
Always, as far as I know.   

sissy |ˈsisē| informal
noun ( pl. -sies)
a person regarded as effeminate or cowardly.
• chiefly offensive an effeminate homosexual.


At any rate, I admitted already that I overstepped with that.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 20, 2008, 12:29:13 AM
Just FYI that's pretty much a dead definition as far as I know. 
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 20, 2008, 12:35:34 AM
Except within a certain genre of writing, which I shall not link to, in order to spare your innocent minds.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 20, 2008, 12:36:34 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on August 20, 2008, 12:29:13 AM
Just FYI that's pretty much a dead definition as far as I know. 

I'll make certain to come to you for updates on definitions in the future.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 20, 2008, 12:41:14 AM
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 20, 2008, 12:43:40 AM
Out of sheer curiosity, what does it mean these days?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 20, 2008, 01:07:50 AM
Spineless, weak, wimpy, cowardly.

ex "I'm a sissy about getting shots, I always have to lie down or I'll faint."
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 20, 2008, 01:10:21 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 20, 2008, 12:35:34 AM
Except within a certain genre of writing, which I shall not link to, in order to spare your innocent minds.

blast there innocent minds
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 20, 2008, 05:18:55 PM
if you wont blast them  i will - NSFW - http://www.sissykiss.com/  don't blame me if you look
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 20, 2008, 05:21:00 PM
(http://www.marketmatador.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/shocked.jpg)
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 20, 2008, 07:30:05 PM
Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 20, 2008, 05:18:55 PM
if you wont blast them  i will - NSFW - http://www.sissykiss.com/  don't blame me if you look

Ugh. Especially the feminization articles.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on August 20, 2008, 08:42:55 PM
 That page made me :asplode:

I couldn't even last long enough to read a full sentence on the main page to see what the hell it was

Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 20, 2008, 05:18:55 PM
if you wont blast them  i will - NSFW - http://www.sissykiss.com/  don't blame me if you look

Also, I completely blame you.  :argh!:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 20, 2008, 09:28:51 PM
I feign innocence..  :wink:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 20, 2008, 11:56:26 PM
I was trying to pretend that sort of sissy didn't exist...
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Shibboleet The Annihilator on August 21, 2008, 05:44:17 AM
HOSRIE = UP IN THA CLUB!
\
:hammer:

Quote from: iPhone on August 18, 2008, 11:03:06 PM

(edited by ECH: sorry Fnordi, I can't stand waiting for that to load on my dial-up wireless connection. once per thread is probably suficient)
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 21, 2008, 01:16:12 PM
That's getting really fucking tired now. 

Uncle BadTouch hasn't posted in this thread for days.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: iPhone on August 21, 2008, 05:44:17 AM
HOSRIE = UP IN THA CLUB!
\
:hammer:

Quote from: iPhone on August 18, 2008, 11:03:06 PM

AWWW SHIT! IT'S TIME FOR A REMIX!
\
:hosrie:

Quote from: ten ton mantis on August 18, 2008, 06:21:08 PM
Quote from: ten ton mantis on August 17, 2008, 03:02:26 PM
Sorry I'm late!
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1531/1187672308004wp8.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1531/1187672308004wp8.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1531/1187672308004wp8.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1531/1187672308004wp8.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1531/1187672308004wp8.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1531/1187672308004wp8.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1531/1187672308004wp8.jpg[/img]
EVERYBODY DANCE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur4aqkyCzPA
PD DANCE PARTY! FUCK YEAH!
http://bp2.blogger.com/_d8bF7KBsmHI/RspPucZ9neI/AAAAAAAAAwI/R2NKZJ4WzDg/s320/nambla.jpg
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http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/12/13/us/13justice.xlarge1.jpg
[img]http://z.hubpages.com/u/55444_f260.jpg
[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee276/pleitsch/CHRIS_HANSEN.jpg
[img]http://images.miiplaza.net/tag/640/480/scale/3781/chrishansen_10258_20070328174243.gif
[img]http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/hansen-0907-lg.jpg[/i
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[img]http://imgsrv.923krock.com/image/wfny3/UserFiles/Image/news_images/ChrisHansen.jpg[/i
[img]http://bp0.blogger.com/_OQJOqSI4X4c/R2WuFm1zJ_I/AAAAAAAAA2M/-zOMakTt1VM/s400/chris+hansen+(5).jpg[/i
[img]http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1894/chxq8.jpg[/im
[img]http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article-teaser/files/061206_article_nytv.jpg[/im
[img]http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/051107/051107_chris_hanson_vsml_9a.vsmall.jpg[/im
[img]http://bp0.blogger.com/_OQJOqSI4X4c/R2WuFm1zJ-I/AAAAAAAAA2E/jkJLwvW11ew/s400/chris+hansen+(4).jpg[/im
[img]http://bp3.blogger.com/_OQJOqSI4X4c/R2WwOW1zKAI/AAAAAAAAA2U/C1C1G-71krw/s1600-h/bwe+to+catch+a+predator.JPG[/i

FUCK YO SHIT!
                        \
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[img]http://images.usatoday.com/Wires2Web/20070401/2770997084_TV_CHRIS_HANSENx.jpg[/im
[img]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/dustinlevengood/chrishansen.jpg[/im
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[img]http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l153/Ethired/1184367762037.jpg[/im
[img]http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/Edgehead89/hansen.jpg[/im
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[img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/07/28/us/28pedo-190.jpg[/i]
[img]http://www.truenorthnews.com/Upload/chris-broad-pedophile.gif[/im
[img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/07/28/us/28pedo-190.jpg[/im
[img]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6954/1188994406433346a87dgi3.jpg[/im

OVER 9,000 LINES OF TEXT!
[img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg203/TheVegetaChannel/Linked/GTFO.jpg[/im
[img]http://whitenoiseinsanity.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/paulshanleypedophilepriest.jpg?w=370&h=278[/im
[img]http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/05/09/corliss_narrowweb__300x451,0.jpg[/i
[img]http://www.londontopic.ca/artimages/md/Broad,Christopherpedophile.jpg[/im
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[img]http://bp1.blogger.com/_Lj5KP8OgZVk/SCCXvYJaRkI/AAAAAAAACD4/kTni7iTAqtI/s400/663-INTERPOL_MANHUNT_INT801.embedded.prod_affiliate.56.JPG[/im
[img]http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6061265,00.jpg[/im
[img]http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u305/kamikaze9699/secretword/pedophile.jpg[/im
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[img]http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20080111/160_ap_neil_080111.jpg[/im
[img]http://www.opinion250.com/images/pedophile.jpg[/im



Stop doing that to Hoopla's BFF, you big meanie. :cry:





























:lulz:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 21, 2008, 02:35:31 PM
Go fuck yourself, Davedim. 

I'm no fan of Uncle BadTouch, but I still don't want to scroll through that bullshit twice a day.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 02:54:45 PM
Aww, you blocked my PMs. You can't goatse someone and then cower from their retaliation, Hoopla. ;_;
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 21, 2008, 02:59:57 PM
Oh can't I?

I don't owe you anything, fucksock. 
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
Yeah, you sure showed me.

You're so cool, Hoopla. I wish I could be an alpha male like you.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 03:32:32 PM
Furthermore,
Quote from: iPhone on August 21, 2008, 05:44:17 AM
annoying threadbomb is annoying
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 21, 2008, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
Yeah, you sure showed me.

You're so cool, Hoopla. I wish I could be an alpha male like you.

Yeah, I'm so CRAZAY for not taking kindly to the implication that I am fond of pedophiles.  Imagine that.

Choke on shit.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 21, 2008, 03:37:35 PM
Considering that I think Net and I are pretty much done with our conversation, I don't really care what happens to this thread. However, it was hell trying to scroll through it to figure out if there was anything relevant left, time I could have spent reading my insect morphology textbook.

Thanks for wasting my time.

~Kai
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 03:40:43 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2008, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
Yeah, you sure showed me.

You're so cool, Hoopla. I wish I could be an alpha male like you.

Yeah, I'm so CRAZAY for not taking kindly to the implication that I am fond of pedophiles.  Imagine that.

Choke on shit.

Hurrrrrrrrrrr.

Seriously though, I thought you didn't believe he was a pedo, Hoopla?

So tell me, how exactly am I implying that you are "fond of pedophiles"?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 03:41:27 PM
Also, must you take the bait EVERY SINGLE TIME? :lulz:
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 21, 2008, 03:45:07 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 03:40:43 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2008, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
Yeah, you sure showed me.

You're so cool, Hoopla. I wish I could be an alpha male like you.

Yeah, I'm so CRAZAY for not taking kindly to the implication that I am fond of pedophiles.  Imagine that.

Choke on shit.

Hurrrrrrrrrrr.

Seriously though, I thought you didn't believe he was a pedo, Hoopla?

So tell me, how exactly am I implying that you are "fond of pedophiles"?

Personally I doubt very much he IS a ped, but that's certainly his reputation on this board. 

Again, I don't relish the implication.  SO CRAZAY!
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 21, 2008, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 03:41:27 PM
Also, must you take the bait EVERY SINGLE TIME? :lulz:

Actually, I'm not even entirely certain who you are, or if I've ever spoken to you before, but YUP - ya got me AGAIN! 

I'm so predictable that way.



Now, please, spontaneously combust.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 03:53:50 PM
I like how you feel the need to include a playground insult at the end of every post.

Also,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2WwEtKdjwg
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 21, 2008, 03:56:22 PM
You know, if they could at least WRITE A PARAGRAPH maybe I wouldn't have a reason to despise them. Well, other than the godawful color scheme.

"Others that thought in a pretty sexist way started using it on guys who they thought were weak because they thought being effeminate is somehow weak but transgender women who love being effeminate turned that around and use it as a compliment for what it should be used as. Like gay people did with queer."
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 21, 2008, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 21, 2008, 03:37:35 PM
Considering that I think Net and I are pretty much done with our conversation, I don't really care what happens to this thread. However, it was hell trying to scroll through it to figure out if there was anything relevant left, time I could have spent reading my insect morphology textbook.

Thanks for wasting my time.

~Kai
If you take a couple of minutes and block every image in the imagebomb, it will save you future wasted time. I did that a while ago and have already several times been glad I did.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: hooplala on August 21, 2008, 04:00:36 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 03:53:50 PM
I like how you feel the need to include a playground insult at the end of every post.

Also,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2WwEtKdjwg

Please don't misinterpret my words... They are no mere schoolyard taunting.

I genuinely wish you to burst into flames.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 21, 2008, 04:00:36 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 03:53:50 PM
I like how you feel the need to include a playground insult at the end of every post.

Also,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2WwEtKdjwg

Please don't misinterpret my words... They are no mere schoolyard taunting.

I genuinely wish you to burst into flames.

OH NO PLEASE DON'T USE YOUR MAGICKS ON ME
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Apparently imagebombing is ok, if the mods like you...

LOL
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Apparently imagebombing is ok, if the mods like you...

LOL

You know damn well there was a lot more to Daruko's treatment than a mere imagebomb.

But yeah,
(http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/3016/canofwormsaz9.jpg)

Bring on the drama and unfounded accusations regardless.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Kai on August 21, 2008, 04:21:00 PM
Quote from: Nigel on August 21, 2008, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 21, 2008, 03:37:35 PM
Considering that I think Net and I are pretty much done with our conversation, I don't really care what happens to this thread. However, it was hell trying to scroll through it to figure out if there was anything relevant left, time I could have spent reading my insect morphology textbook.

Thanks for wasting my time.

~Kai
If you take a couple of minutes and block every image in the imagebomb, it will save you future wasted time. I did that a while ago and have already several times been glad I did.

Thank you. I shall.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: Davedim on August 21, 2008, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Apparently imagebombing is ok, if the mods like you...

LOL

You know damn well there was a lot more to Daruko's treatment than a mere imagebomb.

But yeah,
(http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/3016/canofwormsaz9.jpg)

Bring on the drama and unfounded accusations regardless.

Unfounded accusations? I just said you imagebombed the thread... and from what I can see, that doesn't appear unfounded at all. I don't think you should be banned for it.

Of course, I also find it pathetic and stupid, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 04:31:42 PM
No, your post implied that it wouldn't have been okay for someone else to have imagebombed this thread.

Don't play dumb.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: LMNO on August 21, 2008, 04:32:19 PM
Hey... Would Syncretism be considered the Law of Fives in Eristic-speak?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 21, 2008, 04:34:43 PM
and would model agnosticism be considered a form of syncretism?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:44:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 21, 2008, 04:32:19 PM
Hey... Would Syncretism be considered the Law of Fives in Eristic-speak?

It could, I suppose it depends on the relation being discussed in Syncretism. For example, trying to claim that Coyote and Loki are the same because they're tricksters, seems like the law of fives being applied. Saying that Eris and Discordia, or Zeus and Apollo are the same, seems more a study of history than finding patterns, since it appears that there was a relationship between the Greek and Roman gods.

Finding relationships between Hindu, Lutheran and Buddhism though, I think would require LAWL O' 5's for sure ;-)

Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 21, 2008, 04:34:43 PM
and would model agnosticism be considered a form of syncretism?

I don't think so. Syncretism seems like a Model which could be used by a Model Agnostic, but (based on my current understanding) it appears that Syncretism is actually an attempt to put a bunch of models together, in order to create a single model. Model Agnosticism, as I understand it, isn't looking for a GUM (Grand Unified Model).
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 21, 2008, 04:58:05 PM
You know, I'll normally let an imagebomb or two go, so long as they aren't too excessive.

However, when they start fucking up my browser, there I draw the line.  I think its a good rule, generally, since my connection is not as good as most peoples.

Davedim,
continue being a dick, and I will find something inventive to do with your email.  Capische?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: LMNO on August 21, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
Hey, doesn't this all imply that Carl Jung may be a fascist?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 21, 2008, 05:00:24 PM
i thought model agnosticism was a type of GUM a model of how perceptual models work
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Messier Undertree on August 21, 2008, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2008, 04:58:05 PM
Davedim,
continue being a dick, and I will find something inventive to do with your email.  Capische?

Heh, okay I'm done.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 21, 2008, 05:13:28 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 21, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
Hey, doesn't this all imply that Carl Jung may be a fascist?

Ah, maybe... he was from Europe, and all Europeans are fascists, right? (Except for the British)

Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 21, 2008, 05:00:24 PM
i thought model agnosticism was a type of GUM a model of how perceptual models work

Model Agnosticism works at a meta level, I think. It makes claims about how much we can trust any given model, but it doesn't necessarily try to mush all of the models together. Syncretism seems, to me, a process of taking a couple beliefs from Belief System A and mixing it in with Belief System B, Model Agnosticism tends to be more about believing Belief System A for a bit, then dumping it and believing Belief System B for a little bit.

The practitioner might start tying various models together in a Syncretic sort of way, but that's not really the goal of Model Agnosticism, as I understand it. In fact, I'd probably argue that believing the Syncretic model any more than you believed A or B would appear contrary to what I see as  the goals of Model Agnosticism.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Cain on August 21, 2008, 05:18:32 PM
So, to tie it up, Model Agnosticism means buying into the entire model or worldview for a time, then abandoning it (ie "paradigm piracy") whereas syncretism is trying to tie together several divergent worldviews or models into a new whole.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 05:19:06 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2008, 05:18:32 PM
So, to tie it up, Model Agnosticism means buying into the entire model or worldview for a time, then abandoning it (ie "paradigm piracy") whereas syncretism is trying to tie together several divergent worldviews or models into a new whole.

I think that's probably a very good summation :)
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 21, 2008, 05:24:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 21, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
Hey, doesn't this all imply that Carl Jung may be a fascist?

Ah, maybe... he was from Europe, and all Europeans are fascists, right? (Except for the British)

Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 21, 2008, 05:00:24 PM
i thought model agnosticism was a type of GUM a model of how perceptual models work

Model Agnosticism works at a meta level, I think. It makes claims about how much we can trust any given model, but it doesn't necessarily try to mush all of the models together. Syncretism seems, to me, a process of taking a couple beliefs from Belief System A and mixing it in with Belief System B, Model Agnosticism tends to be more about believing Belief System A for a bit, then dumping it and believing Belief System B for a little bit.

The practitioner might start tying various models together in a Syncretic sort of way, but that's not really the goal of Model Agnosticism, as I understand it. In fact, I'd probably argue that believing the Syncretic model any more than you believed A or B would appear contrary to what I see as  the goals of Model Agnosticism.
titcm - calling model agnosticism syncretic is probably a misuse of the word, the meta model nature of model agnosticism makes it seem to be syncretic when its a model of models (but since there is no mushing )the word doesn't apply.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 05:27:07 PM
Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 21, 2008, 05:24:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 21, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
Hey, doesn't this all imply that Carl Jung may be a fascist?

Ah, maybe... he was from Europe, and all Europeans are fascists, right? (Except for the British)

Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 21, 2008, 05:00:24 PM
i thought model agnosticism was a type of GUM a model of how perceptual models work

Model Agnosticism works at a meta level, I think. It makes claims about how much we can trust any given model, but it doesn't necessarily try to mush all of the models together. Syncretism seems, to me, a process of taking a couple beliefs from Belief System A and mixing it in with Belief System B, Model Agnosticism tends to be more about believing Belief System A for a bit, then dumping it and believing Belief System B for a little bit.

The practitioner might start tying various models together in a Syncretic sort of way, but that's not really the goal of Model Agnosticism, as I understand it. In fact, I'd probably argue that believing the Syncretic model any more than you believed A or B would appear contrary to what I see as  the goals of Model Agnosticism.

Did you mean to say something? ;-)
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 21, 2008, 05:36:34 PM
edit  after mouse coordination problems
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 05:40:13 PM
Quote from: fnord mote eris on August 21, 2008, 05:36:34 PM
edit  after mouse coordination problems

is mouse coordination like cat herding?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: fomenter on August 21, 2008, 05:44:49 PM
related to, if you have a discordinated mouse problem a herd of cats is a good remedy
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2008, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Apparently imagebombing is ok, if the mods like you...

LOL

you know what else is OK?

shuting the fuck up once in a while and not trying to play goddamned devil's advocate for every fucktard that crosses your path, stirring up drama about it even after the drama is OVER.

that would be pretty fucking OK, if you could do that.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 08:32:58 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2008, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Apparently imagebombing is ok, if the mods like you...

LOL

you know what else is OK?

shuting the fuck up once in a while and not trying to play goddamned devil's advocate for every fucktard that crosses your path, stirring up drama about it even after the drama is OVER.

that would be pretty fucking OK, if you could do that.

Noted. I'll give it a try.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2008, 09:42:36 PM
nothing personal. I'm just tired of cleaning up pieces of deceased equine.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 09:44:32 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2008, 09:42:36 PM
nothing personal. I'm just tired of cleaning up pieces of deceased equine.

You mean there's some part of this forum that isn't hip deep in chunks of horse carcass?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: East Coast Hustle on August 21, 2008, 11:47:02 PM
the secret mod forums are pretty much clear of it.



oops.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 22, 2008, 12:25:28 AM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Apparently imagebombing is ok, if the mods like you...

LOL

Rat, I have a serious question:

Why do you ALWAYS side with the trolls?  Seriously...does every shithead that comes down the pike have you on retainer or something?
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 22, 2008, 12:38:15 AM
He's got a grudge.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 22, 2008, 01:01:47 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on August 22, 2008, 12:38:15 AM
He's got a grudge.

No, I know all about grudges.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 22, 2008, 01:02:28 AM
It's a secret grudge.  It's so secret he doesn't even know about it!
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 22, 2008, 01:05:22 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on August 22, 2008, 01:02:28 AM
It's a secret grudge.  It's so secret he doesn't even know about it!

I would SMELL it.  Right through the internets.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 22, 2008, 01:08:40 AM
Since he's denying it I'll explain via PM if you want.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Chairman Risus on August 22, 2008, 01:10:06 AM
Just post it.  Make it so obvious people won't even know it's a secret.  That's the best way to keep them.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 22, 2008, 01:12:43 AM
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on August 22, 2008, 01:08:40 AM
Since he's denying it I'll explain via PM if you want.

Sure.  This I GOTTA hear.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 22, 2008, 01:16:47 AM
Can you post it to me too...
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 22, 2008, 01:19:06 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 22, 2008, 12:25:28 AM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 21, 2008, 04:03:55 PM
Apparently imagebombing is ok, if the mods like you...

LOL

Rat, I have a serious question:

Why do you ALWAYS side with the trolls?  Seriously...does every shithead that comes down the pike have you on retainer or something?

All of them except IANAR.

:wink:

As for a serious answer, I dunno. I'll have to think about it.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 22, 2008, 01:22:54 AM
Jesus fucking christ you always say that and yet you continue shitting up half the threads you post in.
Title: Re: Five Blind Men and an Elephant
Post by: BADGE OF HONOR on August 22, 2008, 01:23:36 AM
It's like when I tell my boss I'll try to be less of a dick.