Y'know, Italy is kinda weird

[Cain]

The investigation that followed lifted the lid off a bizarre underworld that few Florentines knew existed in the lovely hills surrounding their city. In Italy, most young people live at home with their parents until they marry, and most marry late. As a result, having sex in parked cars is a national pastime. It has been said that one out of every three Florentines alive today was conceived in a car. On any given weekend night the hills surrounding Florence were filled with young couples parked in shadowy lanes and dirt turnouts, in olive groves and farmers' fields.

The investigators discovered that dozens of voyeurs prowled the countryside spying on these couples. Locally, these voyeurs were known as Indiani, or Indians, because they crept around in the dark. Some carried sophisticated electronic equipment, including parabolic and suction-cup microphones, tape recorders, and night vision cameras . The Indiani had divided the hills into zones of operation, each managed by a group or "tribe" who controlled the best posts for vicarious sex-watching . Some posts were highly sought after, either because they allowed for very close observation or because they were where the "good cars" were most commonly found. (A "good car" is exactly what you might imagine.) A good car could also be a source of money, and sometimes good cars were bought and sold on the spot, in a kind of depraved bourse, in which one Indiano would retire with a fistful of cash, ceding his post to another to watch the finish. Wealthy Indiani often paid for a guide to take them to the best spots and minimize the risk.

Then there were the intrepid people who preyed on the Indiani themselves, a subculture within a subculture. These men crept into the hills at night not to watch lovers but to spy on Indiani, taking careful note of their cars, license plate numbers, and other telling details— and then they would blackmail the Indiani, threatening to expose their nocturnal activities to their wives, families , and employers. It sometimes happened that an Indiano would have his voyeuristic bliss interrupted by the flash of a nearby camera; the next day he would receive a call: "Remember that flash in the woods last night? The photo came out beautifully, you look simply marvelous , a likeness that even your second cousin would recognize! By the way, the negative is for sale . . ."

One day he learned from a beat cop that investigators had questioned and released an odd character who had been passing himself off as a medical examiner. Spezi found the story charming and pursued it for the paper . The man was "Dr." Carlo Santangelo, a thirty-six-year-old Florentine, of pleasing appearance, a lover of solitude, separated from his wife, who went about dressed in black wearing eyeglasses with smoked lenses, gripping a doctor's bag in his left hand.

In the ever-present doctor's bag were the tools of his profession, a number of perfectly honed and glistening scalpels. Instead of maintaining an established residence, Dr. Santangelo preferred to pass his days in various hotels or residences in small towns near Florence. And when he chose a hotel, he made sure it was near a small cemetery. If there was a room with a view of the tombstones, so much the better.

Dr. Santangelo's face, eyes covered with thick dark lenses, had become familiar to the staff of OFISA, the most prominent funeral establishment in Florence, where he often passed his hours as if on important business. The doctor with the dark lenses doled out prescriptions, saw patients, and even ran a psychoanalysis business on the side.

The only problem was, Dr. Santangelo wasn't a medical examiner or pathologist. He wasn't even a physician, although he seems to have taken it upon himself to operate on live people, at least according to one witness. Santangelo was unmasked when a serious car accident took place on the autostrada south of Florence, and somebody remembered that in a hotel nearby there lived a doctor. Dr. Santangelo was fetched to provide first aid, and all were amazed to hear that he was none other than the medical examiner who had performed the autopsies on the bodies of Susanna Cambi and Stefano Baldi, the Monster's latest victims. At least that was what several employees of the hotel said they had heard directly from Dr. Santangelo himself, when he had proudly opened his bag and showed them the tools of his profession.

Santangelo's peculiar claim got back to the carabinieri, and it didn't take them long to find out that he was no doctor. They learned of his predilection for small cemeteries and pathology rooms, and, even more alarming, his penchant for scalpels. The carabinieri promptly hauled Santangelo in for questioning. The phony medical examiner freely admitted to being a liar and spinner of tall tales, although he wasn't able to explain his love for cemeteries at night.

He hotly denied as libel, however, the story his girlfriend told of how he had broken off a night of passionate lovemaking by taking a dose of sleeping pills, saying this was the only way he could resist the temptation to leave his bed of love to take a turn around the tombstones.

Police detectives also took the Savonarola theory seriously, and quietly began looking into certain priests known to have odd or unusual habits. Several Florentine prostitutes told police that from time to time they entertained a priest with rather eccentric tastes. He paid them generously, not for normal sex, but for the privilege of shaving off their pubic hair.

The police were interested, reasoning that here was a man who enjoyed working with a razor in that particular area. The girls were able to give the police his name and address. One crisp Sunday morning , a small group of police and carabinieri in plainclothes, led by a pair of magistrates, entered an ancient country church perched among cypresses in the lovely hills southwest of Florence. The committee was received in the sacristy, where the priest was in the act of dressing in his robes, taking up the sacred vestments with which he was about to say Mass. They showed him a warrant and told him the reason for their visit, stating their intention to search the church, grounds, confessionals, altars, reliquaries, and tabernacle.

The priest staggered and almost fell to the floor in a faint. He didn't try even for a moment to deny his nocturnal avocation as a barber for ladies, but he swore in the strongest terms that he wasn't the Monster. He said he understood why they had to search the premises, but he begged them to keep the reason for their visit secret and delay the search until after he had said Mass.

All taken from Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi's excellent book, The Monster of Florence.  If you're not aware of the case, you should look into it, and definitely read their book if it catches your interest.  Not only are the crimes themselves shocking, so is the incompetence and careerism of the Italian police and prosecution.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Interesting. I'll look into it. There's an ongoing spree in LaCrosse and along the Mississippi. No cops have opened up. They will discuss drugs, gangs, but not this.

http://mobile.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/smileyfacekiler.html

every year like clockwork and about the same season. There are even NDAs I'm told that the local radio consortium makes talent sign to not discuss it.

LaCrosse runs on college and smuggling money. The cover up is intense. I suspect a cabal of some sort in that the killer has always managed to separate full grown men and drown them without a reported mark. That they're always white may be a factor too, but it's not really a sure indicator of racism.

[Cain]

I dunno, I've always found that theory to be somewhat questionable.  You'd be amazed how high your risk of drowning is near bodies of water after drinking.  Not to mention the risk of exposure during the winter months.  And the smiley face is a very popular form of graffiti.  I'm not saying it's impossible, only that I have my doubts and that former police officers can be obessive about these sort of things, even when they are utterly wrong.

One of the big problems in the case of Il Monstro was that the Florentine Chief of Police and the Perugia Examining Magistrate were both conspiracy theorists.  I mean, off the wall conspiracy theorists, Satanic cults stretching back to the Middle Ages, Eyes Wide Shut sort of thing.  They followed this Italian blogger who claimed a group called The School of the Red Rose was behind the killings.  As well as several other killings.  And 9/11.

Just to point out at this stage, yes this IS the same examining magistrate who latched onto a witchcraft and sex murder theory in the case of Amanda Knox, despite ample evidence indicating that Rudy Guede's story (amazingly) is accurate.  He's ordered bodies exhumed, had journalists arrested and intimidated and overseen judicial witchunts on the basis of these conspiracy theories.

[Cain]

Also, there's a very good suspect for who the Monster is.  Amazingly good, in fact.  I guessed it might be him after the circumstances of the "Sardinian Trail" and the origins of the Monster's gun were discovered.

Basically, the Monster used a signature .22 Beretta with a notch that put unique markings on the bullet casings.  As it turned out, these bullets matched an earlier solved murder.  However, the murderer was in prison for some of the murders, and in a halfway house under supervision when others occured, and was not of sufficient mental health to be the Monster (who had shown himself to be an "organised" serial killer, in the FBI's parlance).

He was a Sardinian immigrant, who had killed his cheating wife and her lover.  Sardinia, as you may be aware, is incredibly clannish with a strong "honor culture".  They follow something called, well, the Code of the Brigand.  Rape and murder are justified under certain circumstances, as are stealing and kidnap.  Lots of Sardinians moved to Tuscany during the 60s, and made a name for themselves as smugglers, kidnappers and outlaws.

As you've probably guessed, the murder wasn't a one-man job.  Others were involved.  It was a matter of Sardinian honour, after all.  Oh, and money.  And someone related to the involved parties fits almost all the criterea for being the Monster - including attempting to burgle the house where the weapon was kept, which was recorded in a suppressed police report.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Sounds all screwed up. I've very little familiarity with the cases you mentioned, but you've definitely piqued my interest and I'll do some legwork and things to follow up.

As for the LaCrosse bit... I surely don't know but I really wouldn't be surprised if it's a group. Then again, as you say, it could just be cause and effect around the VERY heavy drinking culture. . Which the local economy ALSO relies on.
But some of the folks out here are extremely mahgikkas crazy. Nothing I'm willing to dig into though. Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

[Junkenstein]

Interesting case

http://www.florencewebguide.com/monster-of-florence.html

Short summary for those with attention disorders. Will get more into this when I have time.

[Trivial]

Interesting. I'll look into it. There's an ongoing spree in LaCrosse and along the Mississippi. No cops have opened up. They will discuss drugs, gangs, but not this.

http://mobile.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/smileyfacekiler.html

every year like clockwork and about the same season. There are even NDAs I'm told that the local radio consortium makes talent sign to not discuss it.

LaCrosse runs on college and smuggling money. The cover up is intense. I suspect a cabal of some sort in that the killer has always managed to separate full grown men and drown them without a reported mark. That they're always white may be a factor too, but it's not really a sure indicator of racism.

Hum, I'm from there.  The story goes that the person walks away with someone in uniform. 

Also, I don't know the smuggling thing? 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is fucking creepy.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Interesting. I'll look into it. There's an ongoing spree in LaCrosse and along the Mississippi. No cops have opened up. They will discuss drugs, gangs, but not this.

http://mobile.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/smileyfacekiler.html

every year like clockwork and about the same season. There are even NDAs I'm told that the local radio consortium makes talent sign to not discuss it.

LaCrosse runs on college and smuggling money. The cover up is intense. I suspect a cabal of some sort in that the killer has always managed to separate full grown men and drown them without a reported mark. That they're always white may be a factor too, but it's not really a sure indicator of racism.

Hum, I'm from there.  The story goes that the person walks away with someone in uniform. 

Also, I don't know the smuggling thing?

Well as to the uniform thing I had not heard of anything like that. I'll ask around .

As to the smuggling thing, well, let us say I am well acquainted with folks who would know, and I will prudently leave it at that on a public forum. This place is a travel nexus for 4 states. Also the Mississippi and all points south.

I am not from the region Trivial.  I'm originally from Racine. Plenty of history there too. They got one of Dillinger's Tommy guns on display in the lobby of the police station.

I do not wish to derail the thread much further, but will possibly open a thread on LaX generally after I get several projects and bits of research for what's already on my plate @ PD finished.

Pleasure to meet another Wisconsinite!

[Trivial]

Heh, a hotel here in Dubuque has a room that Al Capone stayed in and  they advertise it as such.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Interesting. I'll look into it. There's an ongoing spree in LaCrosse and along the Mississippi. No cops have opened up. They will discuss drugs, gangs, but not this.

http://mobile.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/smileyfacekiler.html

every year like clockwork and about the same season. There are even NDAs I'm told that the local radio consortium makes talent sign to not discuss it.

LaCrosse runs on college and smuggling money. The cover up is intense. I suspect a cabal of some sort in that the killer has always managed to separate full grown men and drown them without a reported mark. That they're always white may be a factor too, but it's not really a sure indicator of racism.

One of the ones mentioned was Native American. I've looked at a couple of other articles as well, and they mention 40 men in 11 states over the last decade. Race and age breakdown was not given for those men.

There is a lot of information missing. Most glaringly, the rate at which men went missing or were found drowned in those areas in the previous decades.

Other questions also need to be answered, such as how these disappearance/drowning rates compare to rates in other cities with rivers running through them, and whether there are other reasons black men might not be drowning in the same numbers, such as a  greater likelihood of sticking together due to a history of violence against lone black men.

It might be worth noting that I found a case of a 23-year-old black man who drowned in the Black River last summer, which also raises the question of whether there are other cases of black men drowning that the serial killer theorists are disregarding because they don't fit the profile that makes their theory work.

Quite honestly, living in an area where people disappear and drown on a regular basis, I find it hard not to see this as a great example of apophenia.

[The Wizard Joseph]

That very well could be Nigel. If so it is mass apophenia(had to look it up). Lots of folks around this town have a fairly sincere nature and seem quite convinced,  but that is the nature of local legends and inconsistent accounts.


Now from what I've seen about Il Monstro after a bit of following the links there's more weirdness per capita by far. Haven't gotten to the deets yet but the fact that it's precisely the same gun every time and unless I misunderstood an automatic because they got shell casings at the scene. New moon every time. Ritual mutilation. Definitely murder.

I can see already how some occult CT got mixed in. Thing about it is maybe the killer is or is not occult crazy, but the pattern seems to indicate a very thoughtful and cautious person. Also the impersonal,brutally fast, and methodical manner of death makes me think that the motive is not to kill the people per se. This is slaughter then ritual mutilation. Not looked into the specifics of the mutilation yet. Not gonna today. Today is a happy day.
Certainly a strange case alright.  I'm somewhat glad to be only Italian American.
For real Italians are weird as heck!

[Cain]

Yes, although even the "occult" elements of the murder have a pragmatic aspect to them.  So for example, Saturday night with no moon makes sense because Saturday night will be the busiest night for young couples in their car, and no moon makes the attack and get-away more likely to succeed.

Spezi and Preston, working from the FBI profile, believed the killer was impotent.  Thus the knife was a substitute penis, the choice of targets was to make up for his own inadequacy, and the ritualistic trophies also make sense.  Interestingly, the Italian police chose to disregard this profile when choosing their suspects with alarming frequency.  Thus one of the Sardinians, Salvatore, was actually bisexual with a rapacious appetite for sex.  Another suspect, the farmer Pacciani, was a convicted rapist of his own daughters.

Much of what interests me in the Monster case is not so much the Monster himself, but what investigating him reveals about the dark underside of the Tuscan countryside.  An area that prides itself on essentially starting the modern world, and of having the highest values of civilization, nevertheless has a brutal and blood-soaked underbelly.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Yes, although even the "occult" elements of the murder have a pragmatic aspect to them.  So for example, Saturday night with no moon makes sense because Saturday night will be the busiest night for young couples in their car, and no moon makes the attack and get-away more likely to succeed.

Spezi and Preston, working from the FBI profile, believed the killer was impotent.  Thus the knife was a substitute penis, the choice of targets was to make up for his own inadequacy, and the ritualistic trophies also make sense.  Interestingly, the Italian police chose to disregard this profile when choosing their suspects with alarming frequency.  Thus one of the Sardinians, Salvatore, was actually bisexual with a rapacious appetite for sex.  Another suspect, the farmer Pacciani, was a convicted rapist of his own daughters.

Much of what interests me in the Monster case is not so much the Monster himself, but what investigating him reveals about the dark underside of the Tuscan countryside.  An area that prides itself on essentially starting the modern world, and of having the highest values of civilization, nevertheless has a brutal and blood-soaked underbelly.

Yeah the story of the creepy 'doctor' in the OP alone gave me a sense that they roll weird and wicked. I can tell you that the blood soaked underbelly has always been there. A general human quality of notable tendancy in Italians particularly. My Dad used to say as a Roman/Sicilian that he was never quite sure if he wanted to dicker with people or cut them. I somewhat relate.

I find the ideals of civilization somewhat laughable on occasion in that many rules do not a system make. The thing in civilization that 'makes it go' is us. Humans are not creatures of rules, like perhaps an AI or even 'spirit', we are a spectrum of tendencies with an extreme number of outlier individuals. The consensus imposed by the civilization does have considerable(IMO more often than not positive) impact on behavior but we have to accept the fact that the weirdos will always be there and that in the end civilization is, though many other things as well, a proxy for territorial aggression.


On the practical side of the 'occult' symbolism in the killings I see exactly what you mean. For some time I've considered the practical effects in all the mystery stuff I've decorated my subconscious with.

Let us take as brief example the idea of prophets and prophecy in the old testament. So a prophet comes along and warns Israel not to accept the ever popular sex-rites of encroaching pagan deities. Mr. Prophet says that it will surely cause God to remove His protection and you'll get invaded. Don't do it!
Well the temples bring temple girls and boys and people ignore Mr. Prophet and get down to business.... and pillow talk... and the recruitment of the youth. The vanguard of the invading culture was the rival priesthood and the Ideas they bring with them. I essence I'm saying that you might look at ancient religion as a precursor of sorts to covert ops and propaganda.

Of course the spirits of the dead and the 'barriers' between worlds are thinner on a moonless night! That's when the symbolism of darkness and literal cover make dastardly thoughts easy to entertain and deeds easier to perform.

If you're a dangerous or murderous weirdo with a head full of such ideas it will naturally express in your deeds. Then the story you're telling yourself becomes more real and you more right about things, of course. Especially once people start dying over it. Don't get much more real than that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That very well could be Nigel. If so it is mass apophenia(had to look it up). Lots of folks around this town have a fairly sincere nature and seem quite convinced,  but that is the nature of local legends and inconsistent accounts.

Well, it really only takes one or two bloggers/smalltime journalists to outline the perceived pattern, and people will catch on to it and repeat it. The whole question, though, really hinges on the data, which shouldn't be hard to a journalist to track down. What are the statistics for accidental drownings in those states? Are they actually suspicious or unusual? The police have this data, and yet are labeling these drownings coincidental, accidental deaths by drowning. So if the people who have the data are saying "Nope, nothing unusual here folks", then either the the data in fact points to nothing unusual, OR the authorities are conspiring to cover up a massive 11-state, 18-year-long (if you count the earliest victim at 1997), 40+ victim serial murder spree.

Orrrr, possibly, (without even delving into the claim that all of the drowned have been white), college-age young men have been managing to get drunk and accidentally falling into rivers (if you assume that all the ones who are missing actually drowned) at the rate of approximately one every five years in each of the states claimed to be involved. That's distributing the drownings per year across the claimed 11 states, but I would bet that if we looked at the numbers they are heavily concentrated in college towns that have a river near the university.