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Tis an ill wind that blows no jobs....

Started by Prickly, July 19, 2004, 10:18:12 AM

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The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1

If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.
The Ghost in the Machine is a Peeping Tom.

A*S* K.S.C. P.O.E.E. A.S.P.C.A.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.

You forgot to highlight the word "institute".  They aren't controlling Adam Smith, he's been dead for 200 years.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Rupert Giles

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.

You forgot to highlight the word "institute".  They aren't controlling Adam Smith, he's been dead for 200 years.

But his 'Spirit Hand' lives on.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Compositus Confusio
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.

You forgot to highlight the word "institute".  They aren't controlling Adam Smith, he's been dead for 200 years.

But his 'Spirit Hand' lives on.

Adam Smith would piss down the throats of these supply-side charletons.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1

I have never met Adam Smith in person.  I am sure he was a great guy and everything.  

From http://www.adamsmith.org/policy/publications/pdf-files/invisible-hand-1.pdf
"This is the famous invisible hand. It is a metaphor for an unintended
consequence. There is no hand at all, which is why it is invisible."

Adam Smith is dead and the Invisible Hand doesn't exist.

Charlatans and Institutes on the other hand are very real.
The Ghost in the Machine is a Peeping Tom.

A*S* K.S.C. P.O.E.E. A.S.P.C.A.

Efrim

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Compositus Confusio
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.

You forgot to highlight the word "institute".  They aren't controlling Adam Smith, he's been dead for 200 years.

But his 'Spirit Hand' lives on.

Adam Smith would piss down the throats of these supply-side charletons.

The Adam Smith institue is made up of people who never read past the introduction to Wealth of Nations and those who refuse to reconize the fundamental diffrences between Smith's market and ours.
"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

L,
Efrim

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Efrim
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Compositus Confusio
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.

You forgot to highlight the word "institute".  They aren't controlling Adam Smith, he's been dead for 200 years.

But his 'Spirit Hand' lives on.

Adam Smith would piss down the throats of these supply-side charletons.

The Adam Smith institue is made up of people who never read past the introduction to Wealth of Nations and those who refuse to reconize the fundamental diffrences between Smith's market and ours.

Yep.  He would have pummelled these Horatio Alger-spewing neocons within an inch of their lives.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Efrim

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Efrim
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Compositus Confusio
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.

You forgot to highlight the word "institute".  They aren't controlling Adam Smith, he's been dead for 200 years.

But his 'Spirit Hand' lives on.

Adam Smith would piss down the throats of these supply-side charletons.

The Adam Smith institue is made up of people who never read past the introduction to Wealth of Nations and those who refuse to reconize the fundamental diffrences between Smith's market and ours.

Yep.  He would have pummelled these Horatio Alger-spewing neocons within an inch of their lives.

Indeed, Part of the reason why I introduced "The free-market demands it" into our personal lexicon. Why, I think it was the use of that phrase that let you know that I was good people.
"There comes a time when every man feels the urge to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken

L,
Efrim

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Efrim
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Efrim
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Compositus Confusio
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1If you are not crazy

Please do not read any further


This is a random quote I came up with doing a random internet search.




The following are secret societies or organizations highly controlled by THEM:

United Nations, Illuminati, Order of Skull and Bones, Rhodes Scholars, Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), The Committee Of 300, Club of Rome, Round Table, New Age Order, International Monetary Fund (IMF), World Bank, Adam Smith Institute, Mont Perelin Society, Business Round Table, B'nai B'rith, Brotherhood of Freemasons, and many others. (Two of many key men: Rothchild, Rockefeller)

:shock:


Back to my original question.

You forgot to highlight the word "institute".  They aren't controlling Adam Smith, he's been dead for 200 years.

But his 'Spirit Hand' lives on.

Adam Smith would piss down the throats of these supply-side charletons.

The Adam Smith institue is made up of people who never read past the introduction to Wealth of Nations and those who refuse to reconize the fundamental diffrences between Smith's market and ours.

Yep.  He would have pummelled these Horatio Alger-spewing neocons within an inch of their lives.

Indeed, Part of the reason why I introduced "The free-market demands it" into our personal lexicon. Why, I think it was the use of that phrase that let you know that I was good people.

Yeah, I remember that.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Anti-Cabbage or Fig-1

The Spirit Hand that remains is an abomination.



Where is this Free Market you speak of?  Do they sell cabbage?




For more information please consult your Pineal Gland.  
Literate Chaotics for Pineal Gland based information Comittee
The Ghost in the Machine is a Peeping Tom.

A*S* K.S.C. P.O.E.E. A.S.P.C.A.

Anonymous

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Prickly
Quote from: Guido Finucci
Quote from: PricklyYou don't hire workers purely because you have work to do. You hire them because the work they do makes you money...

<massive amount of junk deleted>

Your argument is shit for the reasons stated before. The following should clue you up:
Quote from: Prickly... this would decrease the consumption of the working class to below the level it was at before minimum wage. Hence, my argument still stands.

Your model seems to rest on the assumption that working class consumption is driven by individual fiscal self-interest determined solely by market forces. That is really, really naive.

Look at it this way -- if the working classes acted solely to maximise their wealth in response to Adam-Smithian market forces, they'd be a lot fucking wealthier than they are. Do try and have an economic model that, at least, pays lip service to reality. Even if the maths is harder.

I never said they were attempting to maximize their wealth. I'm saying that, without minimum wage, they will increase their consumption (ie. be able to buy more food, a nicer house, etc.). I don't know where the hell you picked up the assumption that I was talking about maximization of wealth - I'm talking about increasing their consumption, and therefore their standard of living.

So, you believe that lower wages will mean lower prices for the same quality of product?

Not to be an ass, but what color IS the sky in your world?  In mine, it's blue.

Do you believe that an increase in wages through legislative force will result in better product quality? If you increase wages because your workers are more talented and deserve it, then that increase in wages will correlate with better product quality. If you increase wages because the law forces you to, you'll cut costs and increase prices in order to make up the additional cost. This doesn't lead to an increase in quality, however, because you lose some of your incentive to make employees more productive (ie you can't lower their pay if they screw up, until they screw up enough to be fired). If that law then disappears, you'll lower wages, then cut prices and increase other costs (often by adding additional workers, since they're less expensive now) back to the levels they were at prior to the enactment of that law. That won't generally lower the quality of production, and may actually increase it since it gives employers more of an ability to use incentives.

Actually, the sky here has been orange lately. Tornado weather does that to skies. I think most of the world gets either light blue or black, though, depending on the time of day. Some parts get a nice bright pink while transitioning from one to the other. pwn3d

But, anyway, if you're gonna throw centuries of study in economics out the window, could you at least give me better reasoning than "because I don't like it"? Honestly, Reverend, calling me a "neocon" (last I knew, neocons opposed gay rights, wanted the death penalty for drug crimes, want abortion outlawed, and want to police as much of the world as they can find troops for - being pro gay rights, the head of my local chapter of NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws), pro-choice, and generally pacifistic kinda disqualifies me) is a bit immature. If you're going to disagree with me, at least have a valid reason.

Anonymous

Quote from: gnimbleyYour turn, Roger. I wouldn't want to beat you to it twice in a row. Think of the fluffy little bunnies!

(Although you might start with "Each additional employee increases the maximum number of orders we can take and the maximum amount of food we can make, increasing the amount of money we can make. However, each additional employee also crowds the place, so the 8th employee doesn't increase our max income by as much as the 7th, who doesn't increase it as much as the 6th, etc. " which presupposes that the number of customers is proportional to the number of employees, to which there is no correlation at a Taco Bell [unless the only people who eat there are related to an empolyee {which in the case of Taco Bell could well be true.}])

The number of customers isn't proportional to the number of employees. The number of customers we can adequately handle, however, is.
As I kind of explained (but glossed over because it wasn't important to my main point), the number of employees affects the maximum amount of business the store can handle. They wouldn't be at the maximum profitable number of employees at all hours of the day (as I mentioned at the end of that post), just at the hours when demand is high enough supply at that level. But thanks for making me over explain a minor tangent that wasn't really important to the main point of my post, which you guys still haven't come close to disproving yet.

Anonymous

Quote from: Guido Finucci
Quote from: PricklyI never said they were attempting to maximize their wealth. I'm saying that, without minimum wage, they will increase their consumption (ie. be able to buy more food, a nicer house, etc.). I don't know where the hell you picked up the assumption that I was talking about maximization of wealth - I'm talking about increasing their consumption, and therefore their standard of living.

If they get paid less, they'll spend more?

Here is a free clue:  standard of living is the measure of wealth. Anyone talking about increasing wealth is talking about increasing the standard of living.

Now go an re-read everything you wrote and discover why it makes no sense.

If they get paid 10% less, and prices fall by 15%, yes, they will buy more. Sorry you slept through that part of this thread.

Prickly

And, sorry, those 3 posts were mine.
Pope Prickly the Pielyamorous Porcupine of the Bent Quarter Cabal and, more recently, the Sunrise If You Dare Cabal

Before the beginning, there was a 50/50 chance of either something or nothing existing. So, something and nothing decided to flip a coin to decide which of them would exist. However, in order for there to be a coin to flip, something had to have already won the toss. Therefore, you only exist because something is a cheating bastard.

gnimbley

Quote from: Anonymous
Quote from: gnimbleyYour turn, Roger. I wouldn't want to beat you to it twice in a row. Think of the fluffy little bunnies!

(Although you might start with "Each additional employee increases the maximum number of orders we can take and the maximum amount of food we can make, increasing the amount of money we can make. However, each additional employee also crowds the place, so the 8th employee doesn't increase our max income by as much as the 7th, who doesn't increase it as much as the 6th, etc. " which presupposes that the number of customers is proportional to the number of employees, to which there is no correlation at a Taco Bell [unless the only people who eat there are related to an empolyee {which in the case of Taco Bell could well be true.}])

The number of customers isn't proportional to the number of employees. The number of customers we can adequately handle, however, is.
As I kind of explained (but glossed over because it wasn't important to my main point), the number of employees affects the maximum amount of business the store can handle. They wouldn't be at the maximum profitable number of employees at all hours of the day (as I mentioned at the end of that post), just at the hours when demand is high enough supply at that level. But thanks for making me over explain a minor tangent that wasn't really important to the main point of my post, which you guys still haven't come close to disproving yet.

The first thing you do when you get to college tomorrow is shoot your economics professor.

After that consider that the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis just released a study that says economic properity is proportional to a population's belief in hell.

Next, consider that new employees are hired when business grows to the point whre the current number of employees can't handle the work load. You are arguing that they way to maximize profits is to hire the proper number of employees to match the peak of the employee/profit statistical curve.

Which has nothing, whatsoever, to do with why businesses hire employees.

It has to do with how economic professors get tenure through publication.

::starts installing metal sheeting over roof preparing for Prickly's ineviable shit storm::