Doc's Thread

[LHX]

state in clear words what your specific questions are


so far, i gather this much:

you: is there any mysterious use for 'occult'?
me: no

you: is there flaws in science?
me: yes


you arent gonna catch any hate from me
and the admin here is good enough to handle business if you expose yourself as troll


me and Rev Rog have had enuf good builds to be on good terms
we are at least on the same page that stagnation is the wrong approach to things


if you are interested enuf, ill refer you to some threads

most of the stuff here is abstract and hypothetical but the aim is at being more effective in practical persuits

no need to fuck up a bunch of threads if you got specific questions that require back-tracking

[Doc Howl]

Well, this is better.  This is probably how we should have started off.

I don't have any particular problem with the Map thread, except that I am having a great deal of trouble with the language and/or jargon content.  Is it actually literal?  And if so, what is the point?

I don't have a huge amount of trouble with the occult thread, except for the fact that I find it hard to accept the fact that so many obviously intelligent people would waste their precious time on this Earth in farting around with something so useless and basic.

I don't have any particular problem with you, other than with the response I got when I asked for clarification on those two threads.  I think I've developed a problem with this Buddhist Monk fellow, though.  He seems like a total fucktard who can't get past basic ad hominem.  Rush Limbaugh fan, seems like.

And as for Roger, he and I go way back, along with Efrim, Pedro, and the rest of the original Evil Geniuses crew (before that, really.  We were in the army together).  I haven't heard from the bastard in forever, so here I am.  I messaged him looking for his email, and when he returns ancd gives it to me, I will disappear and leave you all in peace.

On that subject, it seems from his thread that he is 5 days late coming back from the desert.  Anyone have a cell # for him?

[LHX]

aight cool:

here it is:

occult systems - tarot, palmistry, astrology, as they are commonly used right now are nonsense

entertainment

they are good for fooling people

playing on sensitivities etc


but
they are useful from 2 angles:

1 - they suggest a process
2 - they all suggest the same process


it is nothing more than a creative description of a observed process

a process that starts with birth, progresses to death and suggests re-birth



call it whatever you want to call it
creative story telling

so in that sense, it is literal

these are literal descriptions of a process


a lot of the threads here have focused on figuring out where/why/how these systems developed

different people have different reasons for investigating this


for me personally, it makes it easy to put dope material together

the greatest story ever told can be told 10000000000 different ways



as for doing useless things - i guess that depends on your perspective on things

whats useful?

a lot of people say we are on the brink of apocalypse

most of the other people are doped up on various substances or hooked on money and chasing tail


if you buy into some sort of magic in occult systems, i feel sorry for you
but
if you dismiss any value that can be derived from occult systems, i dont think thats a wise move either


yin/yang was not a money-making scheme invented by the ancient chinese

the local i ching reader in any north american china-town does, however, prey on customer ignorance


Monk is a good dude
he grilled me on this shit before when i was debunking astrology

[Doc Howl]

aight cool:

here it is:

occult systems - tarot, palmistry, astrology, as they are commonly used right now are nonsense

entertainment

they are good for fooling people

playing on sensitivities etc


but
they are useful from 2 angles:

1 - they suggest a process
2 - they all suggest the same process

Yeah.  The process of gullible monkeys and clever, exploitative monkeys.  I can see the humor in that, same as you.  I just don't see what new thing is being examined by the conversation. 

as for doing useless things - i guess that depends on your perspective on things

whats useful?

a lot of people say we are on the brink of apocalypse

most of the other people are doped up on various substances or hooked on money and chasing tail

Well, let's assume that we ARE on the brink of an apocalypse.  What are you and I going to do about it?  Not a fucking thing.  This is why we have to behave as if the world is going to be here tomorrow.  We can't change it, and nothing is certain.  If you give up and there's no apocalypse...


And dope and chasing tail are the time-honored daily activities of the monkey.  We've all been there.  Not every day is a day for deep and weighty things.  Sometimes you just have to get drunk and laid.

if you buy into some sort of magic in occult systems, i feel sorry for you
but
if you dismiss any value that can be derived from occult systems, i dont think thats a wise move either

I fail to see any value in occult systems, other than to hoodwink idiots.

yin/yang was not a money-making scheme invented by the ancient chinese

Tell that to the patients of not-so-ancient Chinese doctors.

Monk is a good dude
he grilled me on this shit before when i was debunking astrology

Depends on where you sit.  If you sit in your chair, he's probably the cat's ass.  From my chair, though, he's a chickenshit hit-and-run artist.

[B_M_W]

aight cool:

here it is:

occult systems - tarot, palmistry, astrology, as they are commonly used right now are nonsense

entertainment

they are good for fooling people

playing on sensitivities etc


but
they are useful from 2 angles:

1 - they suggest a process
2 - they all suggest the same process

Yeah.  The process of gullible monkeys and clever, exploitative monkeys.  I can see the humor in that, same as you.  I just don't see what new thing is being examined by the conversation. 

as for doing useless things - i guess that depends on your perspective on things

whats useful?

a lot of people say we are on the brink of apocalypse

most of the other people are doped up on various substances or hooked on money and chasing tail

Well, let's assume that we ARE on the brink of an apocalypse.  What are you and I going to do about it?  Not a fucking thing.  This is why we have to behave as if the world is going to be here tomorrow.  We can't change it, and nothing is certain.  If you give up and there's no apocalypse...


And dope and chasing tail are the time-honored daily activities of the monkey.  We've all been there.  Not every day is a day for deep and weighty things.  Sometimes you just have to get drunk and laid.

if you buy into some sort of magic in occult systems, i feel sorry for you
but
if you dismiss any value that can be derived from occult systems, i dont think thats a wise move either

I fail to see any value in occult systems, other than to hoodwink idiots.

yin/yang was not a money-making scheme invented by the ancient chinese

Tell that to the patients of not-so-ancient Chinese doctors.

Monk is a good dude
he grilled me on this shit before when i was debunking astrology

Depends on where you sit.  If you sit in your chair, he's probably the cat's ass.  From my chair, though, he's a chickenshit hit-and-run artist.

Sorry if I came off badly in the beginning. You sounded like a troll. Please forgive me

Please also forgive me for being a "hit and run". When someone more or less says I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, its an event that shakes you up.

Im alittle busy talking to that person at the moment.

[Doc Howl]

[Sorry if I came off badly in the beginning. You sounded like a troll. Please forgive me

Please also forgive me for being a "hit and run". When someone more or less says I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, its an event that shakes you up.

Im alittle busy talking to that person at the moment.

Alright.

I still want an answer to my question, though.

ADD - Oh, and run for your life.

[LHX]

Well, let's assume that we ARE on the brink of an apocalypse.  What are you and I going to do about it?  Not a fucking thing.  This is why we have to behave as if the world is going to be here tomorrow.  We can't change it, and nothing is certain.  If you give up and there's no apocalypse...

man
i have a lot of respect for what military-folk have been forced to endure
but i aint really feeling you on this one

build tolerance
understand your limitations

expanding awareness

refinement is a process that never ends

thats certain


exploring things isnt fun?

thats the funnest shit in the universe

And dope and chasing tail are the time-honored daily activities of the monkey.  We've all been there.  Not every day is a day for deep and weighty things.  Sometimes you just have to get drunk and laid.

everybody has hobbies

every day is a day for deep and weighty things
that dont mean it aint enjoyable

I fail to see any value in occult systems, other than to hoodwink idiots.

explore it then

when i was a kid, i thought girls were yucky

yin/yang was not a money-making scheme invented by the ancient chinese

Tell that to the patients of not-so-ancient Chinese doctors.

you wanna dismiss yin/yang too?

damn yo

what are you made out of? sugar and spice?


you are right from one angle tho

i cant hold something in my hand and say 'this is yin/yang'


i aint gonna hold fast to things i cant readily demonstrate

[Doc Howl]

you wanna dismiss yin/yang too?

Yeah, same as I dismiss "bile" and "humors".  Pennicillin works; this is testable and repeatable.  Yin/Yang is superstitious crap. 

You are aware that until very recently, you had a better chance of surviving an illness if you DIDN'T go to the doctor, right?  Bullshit like yin/yang and "humors" are why.

damn yo

what are you made out of? sugar and spice?

I am made out of the same thing you are.  I am a bag of guts suspended on a calcium-based framework.  I have the passing fancy that I am intelligent, and the occasion conceit that I am the main player in the poorly written sitcom I live in.  I spend the majority of my time trying to forget my mortality, and the rest fucking with the other monkeys around me.  I also consider myself incredibly fortunate, in that I was among the lucky 5% of monkeys born into the incredible affluence that is America, and in that I have found a reasonably large group of monkeys that I can actually trust.  My purpose in being here is to locate one of those monkeys that has gone too long without talking to any of his friends in Illinois.

[LHX]

Pennicillin works

you sure about that?

give it a little while longer, and the correct statement will be

'penicillin worked before we realized the long-term effects of it'




you do know what anti-biotic means, right?

I am made out of the same thing you are.  I am a bag of guts suspended on a calcium-based framework.  I have the passing fancy that I am intelligent, and the occasion conceit that I am the main player in the poorly written sitcom I live in.  I spend the majority of my time trying to forget my mortality, and the rest fucking with the other monkeys around me.  I also consider myself incredibly fortunate, in that I was among the lucky 5% of monkeys born into the incredible affluence that is America, and in that I have found a reasonably large group of monkeys that I can actually trust.  My purpose in being here is to locate one of those monkeys that has gone too long without talking to any of his friends in Illinois.

what do you want me to say dude?

you sound like youve convinced yourself to stop exploring


sound like a old man

dont like new shit

id hit with a low blow and say maybe thats the reason why you aint heard from the Rev
but
it aint my style



where does your nervous system fit into your biological expertise?

in that bag of guts




this is a sitcom alright

[Doc Howl]

Pennicillin works

you sure about that?

give it a little while longer, and the correct statement will be

'penicillin worked before we realized the long-term effects of it'




you do know what anti-biotic means, right?

It works because it's a bacteriophage.  Now, please explain the long term effects to me.

what do you want me to say dude?

you sound like youve convinced yourself to stop exploring

No, I've just learned to not waste time exploring dead-ends that have been explored 3,000,000 times before.

sound like a old man

dont like new shit

You see an old man, you just knock him down, son.

id hit with a low blow and say maybe thats the reason why you aint heard from the Rev
but
it aint my style

That's funny, because you just did.  Of course, you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about in this particular case, but your willingness to both try to use and NOT use that nasty little comment have been duly noted.

where does your nervous system fit into your biological expertise?

in that bag of guts

Yeah.  Your point?

this is a sitcom alright

You're damn right it is.  And it's about as funny as Three's Company.

[LHX]

It works because it's a bacteriophage.  Now, please explain the long term effects to me.

hard-headedness?

hypersensitivity?

what do you want me to say dude?

you sound like youve convinced yourself to stop exploring

No, I've just learned to not waste time exploring dead-ends that have been explored 3,000,000 times before.

yeah

lets just crack open a beer and watch it go down

sound like a old man

dont like new shit

You see an old man, you just knock him down, son.

yeah ok pal

no matter what stance you wanna take, we got more in common than out-of-common just by virtue of discussing this

we are basically best friends at this point

id hit with a low blow and say maybe thats the reason why you aint heard from the Rev
but
it aint my style

That's funny, because you just did.  Of course, you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about in this particular case, but your willingness to both try to use and NOT use that nasty little comment have been duly noted.

dont bother playing sensitive

youre a idiot, im a moron

if youre gonna act hurt by tongue in cheek humor from some knucklehead you came across on the internet, ill be in the corner trying to suck my own dick

You're damn right it is.  And it's about as funny as Three's Company.

Full House up in this joint

wheres bob saget

[Doc Howl]

It works because it's a bacteriophage.  Now, please explain the long term effects to me.

hard-headedness?

hypersensitivity?

That's possible, probably due to the carrier being used to move the phage.  However, it's a no-brainer when it comes to comparing that to dying of strep throat.  The "anti-biotic" thing was funny, though, considering the phage involved cannot harm human cells.

yeah

lets just crack open a beer and watch it go down

I'm sure you had a point there, but I seem to have missed it entirely.

dont bother playing sensitive

youre a idiot, im a moron

If I had decided to take offense, you'd know it. 

if youre gonna act hurt by tongue in cheek humor from some knucklehead you came across on the internet, ill be in the corner trying to suck my own dick

What the hell are you talking about?

wheres bob saget

He ran away, just when we really needed him.  Just like Mr Roper.

[LHX]

That's possible, probably due to the carrier being used to move the phage.  However, it's a no-brainer when it comes to comparing that to dying of strep throat.  The "anti-biotic" thing was funny, though, considering the phage involved cannot harm human cells.

aight dude

im done for the day

obviously you know that anything you consume has a effect on you
and obviously you know that your entire digestive system is composed of bacteria
and obviously you know that penicillin leads to stronger strains of disease which makes me wonder why you are keeping the discussion up


but regardless

its good you came by

kept things lively and shit

generally quiet in the evenings these days

hope you stick around or at least to check back to see where all this deconstruction leads to


its a revolving door here

people come, people go


best of luck tracking down the Rev

[LMNO]

Hey there, Doc.


LHX tried this, but there seemed to be a stumble somewhere in the communications.

Let,Äôs see if my inane ramblings help in any way.  I noticed a few things you were wondering about, and I,Äôll try to address them as I see them.  Because full explanations would take a very long time to write, I,Äôll do my best to sum up; but please keep in mind that the more redacted I make this, the less complete it will be.  So yeah, you,Äôll probably notice some loopholes and/or flaws, but (hopefully) these have been dealt with, but merely omitted for the sake of brevity.

Ok:  ,Äúthe Map is not the Territory.,Äù  There is a line of thinking stating that the sensations we perceive are somewhat different than what caused those sensations in the first place.  That is to say, through biological and psychological limitations, the human is unable to see the Universe for what it ,Äúreally,Äù is.  Granted, when someone is trying to hit you with a barstool, what you perceive ends up working really well.  Since the biological limitations are more or less common to all of us, we,Äôll focus on the psychological.  Through cultural assimilation and other such means, a human sees the world through a specific filter, which can be described as a set of experiences, teachings, and thoughts.  Since each human,Äôs experiences, teachings, and thoughts are different from another,Äôs (however slightly), we can say that there are many, many ways of looking at the Universe.  This is the ,ÄúMap,Äù.  The problem being addressed is what happens when a human thinks that their filter/map is the ,Äúreal,Äù universe, the only way of looking at things.  In this way, they are mistaking their filter for the Universe, they are thinking that their Map doesn,Äôt approximate the territory, but actually is the territory.  I know this sounds fairly simple, but it,Äôs amazing how many people (myself included) keep forgetting it.

The Black Iron Prison is a reworking of this concept, in that it envisions the psychological and biological limitations as a prison cell that prevents us from experiencing the complete Universe.  You can change the way your cell is shaped, which changes the way you perceive things, but you can never fully escape.


So, now that we have this as a basis, we get to the next, and possibly most contentious, point: the occult.  Ok, this is gonna be hard, because I can tell you just rolled your eyes.

To me, things like kaballah, Christian mysticism, Sufis, Taoism, and the like don,Äôt hold ,Äúcosmic truths,Äù or ,Äúrevelations.,Äù  I look at them as pictures of someone else,Äôs grid/filter/map/prison cell.  Depending on which system it is, it can sometimes be radically different than my own.  I enjoy reading about them because I enjoy new ideas, even if those ideas aren,Äôt connected in any way to what I consider ,Äúreality,Äù to be.  So, the question of ,Äúwhy do I enjoy them?,Äù seems to be relevant here.  The way I think my brain might work is that my creativity comes from bringing two ideas together that weren,Äôt together before.  Wait, that sounded weird and esoteric.  What I mean is, what if I thought about cars in terms of tectonic plate shifts?  I don,Äôt know what that means, but I have a feeling that it would lead to a few things I hadn,Äôt really thought about before.  I know, that,Äôs a bullshit example, but if you don,Äôt look at the example too specifically, you can see what I,Äôm getting at. 

Now, keep in mind that I,Äôm talking psychological here.  For use in the physical Universe, and to describe the things in it and how they move, there is no better tool than science.  I never deal with the stuff outside my head using any sort of occult system or superstition (ok, maybe not always.  I,Äôm as fallible as the next monkey).  So, when I talk about the occult, I,Äôm not talking about some Secret Knowledge about how Things Really Work, I,Äôm talking about new mental connections that you can make to see things in new ways; a way to change your filter.  It might not be the most useful filter, but there might be one or two things in it that can help in the way I see the Universe.

[Cain]

We need Pedro back here.  More thoughts later, once coffee 2 kicks in and I send a few emails (another job in the line)...