News:

PD.com: can increase your susceptibility to cancer, dementia, heart disease, diabetes, influenza, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus - even the common cold.

Main Menu

Chasing Eris

Started by Placid Dingo, June 29, 2012, 11:52:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:20:31 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 22, 2013, 04:10:21 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:07:35 PM
I don't regard anything much as inherently more important other than the fundamental details of where Discordianism comes from, to give context.

Let's just unpack that:

The author of 30 Days of Eris is not more important than the guy who invented the "Shamlicht Body Shake".

Well done.

Not what I mean to say.

Allow me to rephrase.

I did not start with any assumptions about who or what was essential to my book. I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.

Enjoy your artistic purity.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
Indeed.

Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:

"I insist on being the one choosing to include Uncle BadTouch."

And trust me, no one's going to take that from you.  Because no one wants to.

That is correct. I do insist on being the one choosing to include Uncle BadTouch.
I also insist on being the one to exclude Uncle BadTouch.
The same is true of every single person I have interviewed. I will decide was is and is not included and that choice will be made in the editing process.

Before I get into the ramifications of the last sentence, let's think this one out.

In taking ownership of the choice, there obviously must be a list of pros and cons. Among other elements, such as "did the interview go well?", there is a pro directly in conflict with a con:

Pro: "Including Uncle BadTouch furthers the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Including Uncle BadTouch will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today, as a vocal element of Discordia will choose not to participate."

And of course, the reverse:

Pro: "Not including Uncle BadTouch will increase the number of available interviews, and broadens the snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Not including Uncle BadTouch will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."

Or, to boil down the logic tree:
No matter which choice you make, the end result will be an incomplete picture of Discordia as it stands today.


So, at that point, the choice is what will give the broadest, yet still incomplete, picture.

Which means, in the end, you apparently feel that the inclusion of Uncle BadTouch will give you a more complete picture than the inclusion of us.  And to be honest, that's like you giving us the finger and telling us we're not as important as Uncle BadTouch.

That you feel Uncle BadTouch is somehow better than us. 

Hope that clears things up.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
Indeed.

Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:

"I insist on being the one choosing to include Uncle BadTouch."

And trust me, no one's going to take that from you.  Because no one wants to.

That is correct. I do insist on being the one choosing to include Uncle BadTouch.
I also insist on being the one to exclude Uncle BadTouch.
The same is true of every single person I have interviewed. I will decide was is and is not included and that choice will be made in the editing process.

Before I get into the ramifications of the last sentence, let's think this one out.

In taking ownership of the choice, there obviously must be a list of pros and cons. Among other elements, such as "did the interview go well?", there is a pro directly in conflict with a con:

Pro: "Including Uncle BadTouch furthers the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Including Uncle BadTouch will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today, as a vocal element of Discordia will choose not to participate."

And of course, the reverse:

Pro: "Not including Uncle BadTouch will increase the number of available interviews, and broadens the snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Not including Uncle BadTouch will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."

Or, to boil down the logic tree:
No matter which choice you make, the end result will be an incomplete picture of Discordia as it stands today.


So, at that point, the choice is what will give the broadest, yet still incomplete, picture.

Which means, in the end, you apparently feel that the inclusion of Uncle BadTouch will give you a more complete picture than the inclusion of us.  And to be honest, that's like you giving us the finger and telling us we're not as important as Uncle BadTouch.

That you feel Uncle BadTouch is somehow better than us. 

Hope that clears things up.

That's one possibility.  The other two are:

1.  "YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!"  and

2.  "I am a member of the Uncle BadTouch family, and I therefore must include my guru."

Note that none of the three possibilities allow for anything involving actual journalism.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 22, 2013, 02:19:26 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 02:12:36 PM
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this.  So the insistence to include Uncle BadTouch, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.

Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.


Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?

It seems to me that the book was intended to capture "classic" Discordianism.

No slam on Swabey or anyone.  There's still something to be said for that approach.  But I think that trying to shove everyone in the book would be like asking Martin Luther if he minded if the Vatican would be involved.

So a choice had to be made.  For some reason, the choice made was "Uncle BadTouch uber alles".

This is not an attempt to record any one genre of Discordianism. It is an attempt to take a snapshot of the broader egragore of Discordia and the lives of Discordians.

You say a choice had to be made. In fact the whole cause of much of the upset is that I do not think that any kind of choice DID have to be made. Therefore anyone who felt I did need to choose between them and Uncle BadTouch (or, had it come to it, anyone else) was left out of the interviews.

Yes, yes, it's all about you having control and you making the choices and you calling the shots. You're a control freak; we get it. The thing is, in your control-freaking about "taking a snapshot of the broader egragore of Discordia" you alienated so many people that your project completely fails to do exactly that.

But you retained all the control, and that's what really matters to you. That's your choice. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


LMNO

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:07:35 PM
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.

It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have.  Even if the Uncle BadTouch section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.

Cain

LMNO's said pretty much everything I would have, in this thread. 

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:07:35 PM
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.

It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have.  Even if the Uncle BadTouch section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.

Well, then, he can say "SEE?  Uncle BadTouch ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK!  YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"

There are basically two solution sets here:

Placid Dingo got a bunch of kickstarters to pay for a vacation, OR
Placid Dingo publishes a paean to a pedo.

Well done.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Placid Dingo

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 04:27:59 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
Indeed.

Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:

"I insist on being the one choosing to include Uncle BadTouch."

And trust me, no one's going to take that from you.  Because no one wants to.

That is correct. I do insist on being the one choosing to include Uncle BadTouch.
I also insist on being the one to exclude Uncle BadTouch.
The same is true of every single person I have interviewed. I will decide was is and is not included and that choice will be made in the editing process.

Before I get into the ramifications of the last sentence, let's think this one out.

In taking ownership of the choice, there obviously must be a list of pros and cons. Among other elements, such as "did the interview go well?", there is a pro directly in conflict with a con:

Pro: "Including Uncle BadTouch furthers the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Including Uncle BadTouch will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today, as a vocal element of Discordia will choose not to participate."

And of course, the reverse:

Pro: "Not including Uncle BadTouch will increase the number of available interviews, and broadens the snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."
Con: "Not including Uncle BadTouch will not achieve the goal of taking a snapshot of Discordia as it stands today."

Or, to boil down the logic tree:
No matter which choice you make, the end result will be an incomplete picture of Discordia as it stands today.


So, at that point, the choice is what will give the broadest, yet still incomplete, picture.

Which means, in the end, you apparently feel that the inclusion of Uncle BadTouch will give you a more complete picture than the inclusion of us.  And to be honest, that's like you giving us the finger and telling us we're not as important as Uncle BadTouch.

That you feel Uncle BadTouch is somehow better than us. 

Hope that clears things up.

If you choose to interpret my position as such, I can't stop you.

Bu that's not my view.

My view is simply that I'm not interested in interviews that will require me to let anyone else make editorial decisions for me. And to be clear, that is me stating it matters to me that I make those choices not that I believe anyone else is trying to control my project.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

hooplala

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 22, 2013, 02:19:26 PM
It seems to me that the book was intended to capture "classic" Discordianism.

BINGO.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

The Good Reverend Roger

#534
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:44:51 PM
My view is simply that I'm not interested in interviews that will require me to let anyone else make editorial decisions for me. And to be clear, that is me stating it matters to me that I make those choices not that I believe anyone else is trying to control my project.

Then enjoy your little ego wank.  I have written or been involved in multiple books and other projects, and never once (not even with LOBB) did I allow it to turn into ALL ABOUT ROGER'S DECISIONS.

Nobody does.  Not if they're actually trying to accomplish anything other than jacking off to their own "control".

So tell me, though...How did it work out?  Did you get to choose everything you wanted?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Placid Dingo

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 22, 2013, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:07:35 PM
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.

It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have.  Even if the Uncle BadTouch section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.

Well, then, he can say "SEE?  Uncle BadTouch ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK!  YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"

There are basically two solution sets here:

Placid Dingo got a bunch of kickstarters to pay for a vacation, OR
Placid Dingo publishes a paean to a pedo.

Well done.

The Kickstarter overwhelmingly did not pay for this project.

If anyone is upset enough that they feel they need a refund I will provide one
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 22, 2013, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 22, 2013, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:07:35 PM
I decided to do interviews with those who would give them, and make choices on content in editing.

It puzzles me that you imply you haven't made your choice yet, when functionally you already have.  Even if the Uncle BadTouch section doesn't make it through the editing process, you lost a chunk of willing, even eager, content before you even got on your first airplane.

Well, then, he can say "SEE?  Uncle BadTouch ISN'T EVEN IN THE BOOK!  YOU SUCKERS RUINED THIS FOR NOTHING!"

There are basically two solution sets here:

Placid Dingo got a bunch of kickstarters to pay for a vacation, OR
Placid Dingo publishes a paean to a pedo.

Well done.

The Kickstarter overwhelmingly did not pay for this project.

If anyone is upset enough that they feel they need a refund I will provide one

Okay, then it's the second one.  Though you did mention that at least 25% of the funding came from that sort of thing.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

hooplala

On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Uncle BadTouch sock puppets...
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Rex Bologna on November 22, 2013, 04:54:04 PM
On a slightly different note, I would be interested to hear more about what made Dingo start to believe he was talking to multiple Uncle BadTouch sock puppets...

:?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Placid Dingo

Nigel's Question. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?

I said before, because I spoke up to correct some inaccuracies, that I would butt out unless people wanted to ask questions or if there was something too inaccurate to ignore. That's what I'm here for.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.