It's Official: Conservatives are CRAZY!

[Jenne]

Those are the bankers.  They don't actually like any of the social-conservative stuff (except gay bashing, which is why that has the lowest disagree rate), but they'll put up with it to ensure more deregulation.

*Has met these people.

Or NeoCons...which are mostly Jewish IIRC, and a bit more secular in their tastes when it comes to the morality stuff.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yep.  Sounds about right.    Also, the level to which they want to marginalize the rights of gays is just...sickening.

Meet the homosexuals, the NewNegro^TM of the US.  (I know this is old news, but damn it chaps the hide)

Then I guess the homosexuals need to man up and cause a ruckus.

Bump because it got buried the same moment I posted it.

[Jasper]

The republican party is all the supervillainy america needs.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The republican party is all the supervillainy america needs.

Well, tough shit.  America gets the democrats, too.   

[Jasper]

The republican party is all the supervillainy america needs.

Well, tough shit.  America gets the democrats, too.   

[Cain]

mostly Jewish IIRC

No.  Not just because it is not true, but also because saying that legitimizes the "hatred of necoconservatism is antisemitism" meme.  To whit:

First, 'neo-conservative' is a codeword for Jewish. As antisemites did with big business moguls in the nineteenth century and Communist leaders in the twentieth, the trick here is to take all those involved in some aspect of public life and single out those who are Jewish. The implication made is that this is a Jewish-led movement conducted not in the interests of all the, in this case, American people, but to the benefit of Jews, and in this case Israel.

and

In truth, people labeled neocons (con is short for 'conservative' and neo is short for 'Jewish') travel in widely different circles..."

Yes, people got paid to write this rubbish.  And yes, the meme is considered recieved wisdom among certain crowds.

[Mangrove]

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Jews-Liberals-Norman-Podhoretz/dp/0385529198/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265226777&sr=8-1-catcorr





Even a very conservative Jew think that Jews are more liberal......(and then writes a book about why he's not happy about it, but still...)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Jews-Liberals-Norman-Podhoretz/dp/0385529198/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265226777&sr=8-1-catcorr





Even a very conservative Jew think that Jews are more liberal......(and then writes a book about why he's not happy about it, but still...)

But regardless of which side he's on, how does he have the credibility to speak for an entire people?

[Cain]

Pod-man is suffering from some form of like, really early onset dementia, with violent overtones

[Norman Podhoretz] detects, he claims, resemblances between the United States of today and Great Britain in the years after World War I. Similar distaste for combat occurred then to the extent 'that the Illiad...could no longer be comfortably read.' England itself was discredited in the eyes of the young; the place seemed drearily middle class. The young rebelled, some of them becoming Nazi sympathizers, others Communists or fellow travellers. 'That Auden and Burgess were both homosexuals,' says Podhoretz, 'clearly had something, perhaps everything, to do with their need "completely and finally to rebel against England." And indeed it is impossible to read books like Children of the Sun or Paul Fussell's The Great War and Modern Memory without being struck by the central role homosexuality played in the entire rebellious ethos of the interwar period in England.'

'...Homosexual feeling,' Podhoretz says, 'also accounted for a good deal of the pacificism that rose out of the trenches and into the upper reaches of the culture after the war was over.' One would have thought, actually, that the fresh memory of the most wantonly bloody war in human history might have had something to do with it. Shortly thereafter, we get to the guts of the matter: 'No wonder, then, that so many of those who resented their own country...should have been or should have chosen to become, homosexuals. For whatever else homosexuality may be, or may be caused by, to these young men of the English upper class it represented — the refusal of fatherhood and all that fatherhood entailed: responsibility for a family and therefore an inescapable implication in the destiny of society as a whole...they were rejecting their birthright as successors to their own fathers in assuming direct responsibility for the fate of the country.'

It's a short leap now to the conclusion: 'Anyone familiar with homosexual apologetics in America today will recognize these attitudes.' That is: England appeased in the '30s; there were homosexuals in England; therefore homosexuals caused appeasement. Watch your ass, Neville Chamberlain. Specifically mentioning Allen Ginsberg, James Baldwin and Gore Vidal, Podhoretz says we 'find the same sort of pacificism [with Vietnam naturally standing in for World War I], hostility to one's own country and its putatively dreary middle-class way of life, and dersion of the idea that it stands for anything worth defending or that it is threatened by anything but its own stupidity and wickedness.'

Short of direct charges that Commie faggots are running the State Department, it is hard to conceive of a more hysterical and willfully demagogic posture: America is getting soft on Communism; America's population includes declared homosexuals; homosexuals are pacifists and soft on Communism: finally (though this is as yet unstated), homosexual Communists run America.

–Alexander Cockburn, 'Poddy on the Threat', Village Voice, 1977

[The Good Reverend Roger]

 

[Jenne]

mostly Jewish IIRC

No.  Not just because it is not true, but also because saying that legitimizes the "hatred of necoconservatism is antisemitism" meme.  To whit:

First, 'neo-conservative' is a codeword for Jewish. As antisemites did with big business moguls in the nineteenth century and Communist leaders in the twentieth, the trick here is to take all those involved in some aspect of public life and single out those who are Jewish. The implication made is that this is a Jewish-led movement conducted not in the interests of all the, in this case, American people, but to the benefit of Jews, and in this case Israel.

and

In truth, people labeled neocons (con is short for 'conservative' and neo is short for 'Jewish') travel in widely different circles..."

Yes, people got paid to write this rubbish.  And yes, the meme is considered recieved wisdom among certain crowds.

I was just going based on the the 90's Bill Kristol et al bandwagon that trained Bush in the 2000's.  I never equated the two, but I can see the correlation.

[Mangrove]

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Jews-Liberals-Norman-Podhoretz/dp/0385529198/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265226777&sr=8-1-catcorr





Even a very conservative Jew think that Jews are more liberal......(and then writes a book about why he's not happy about it, but still...)

But regardless of which side he's on, how does he have the credibility to speak for an entire people?

No. Because nobody has the credibility to speak for any group of people.

[Cain]

More Podhoretz!

It has always struck me as odd that so many of the dissidents in Czechoslovakia, all of whom were passionate anti-Communists, should have made heroes out of [Allen] Ginsberg and other icons of the counterculture, all of whom were equally passionate anti-anti-Communists. Thus, when on a visit of my own to Prague in 1988 I was taken to meet Vaclav Havel, then the most prominent of the dissidents (and later, of course, to become president of a free Czech Republic), the first thing that hit my eye upon entering his apartment was a huge poster of John Lennon hanging on the wall. Disconcerted, I tried to persuade Havel that the counterculture in the West was no friend of anti-Communists like himself, but I made even less of a "dent" on him than Ginsberg had made on me thirty years earlier.

Conversely, I always thought the Communist governments were stupid in failing to understand that cultural radicals like Ginsberg, who did everything in their power to undermine American resistance to Communism, were their de facto allies in the cold war. I mean, when Ginsberg ridiculed the cold war in a poem like "America" ("The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to take our cars from out of our garages" and so on), whose political purposes did Havel on the one side and Castro on the other think were being served?

[Mangrove]

America is getting soft on Communism; America's population includes declared homosexuals; homosexuals are pacifists and soft on Communism: finally (though this is as yet unstated), homosexual Communists run America. circa 1977

So nothing's changed in American politics in over 30 years?

[Cain]

Following the break, Norman Podhoretz and William Buckley–two of the grand old men of the Grand Old Party–begin to feud. Podhoretz will not stop speaking–"I have lots of ex-friends on the left; it looks like I'm going to have some ex-friends on the right, too," he rants[.]

[...]

Today, he is a bristling gray ball of aggression, here to declare that the Iraq war has been "an amazing success." He waves his fist and declaims, "There were WMD, and they were shipped to Syria. ... This picture of a country in total chaos with no security is false. It has been a triumph. It couldn't have gone better." He wants more wars, and fast. He is "certain" Bush will bomb Iran, and "thank God" for that.

[...]

A few floors away, Podhoretz tells me he is losing his voice, "which will make some people very happy." Then he croaks out the standard-issue Wolfowitz line about how, after September 11, the United States had to introduce democracy to the Middle East in order to change the political culture that produced the mass murderers. For somebody who declares democracy to be his goal, he is remarkably blasÃÆ'Ã,© about the fact that 80 percent of Iraqis want U.S. troops to leave their country, according to the latest polls. "I don't much care," he says, batting the question away. He goes on to insist that "nobody was tortured in Abu Ghraib or GuantÃÆ'Ã,¡namo" and that Bush is "a hero." He is, like most people on this cruise, certain the administration will attack Iran.

"I keep telling people we are in World War Four," Podhoretz declares. He fumes at Buckley, George Will, and the other apostate conservatives who refuse to see sense. He again declares victory.