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I liked how they introduced her, like "her mother died in an insane asylum thinking she was Queen Victoria" and my thought was, I like where I think this is going. I was not disappointed.

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Rev Roger Sermon #11: Land of the Yahoos

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, March 05, 2003, 05:01:28 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: khaganSo in terms of the chicken and the egg, it was neither. It was, and always will be, the fault of the United States.

Actually, it was the British that set up Isreal.

Blaming the Americans for every bad thing in the world is as goofy as GW Bush excoriating Europe for not acting like good little vassals.

In addition, is the USA the only country that has been meddling in the Muslim world?  I think not.  We are ALL to blame on this one.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

phantom pope

:idea: a stalemate, deadlock would be TWO 2 equally entitled,
with same equal rights balanced, STATES: 1 israel / 1 palestinian

let's say if israel makes trouble - saddam can pressure them
let's say if palestinian makes trouble - usa can pressure d0wn
between them 5km wide strip of UNO-presence in the beginning

just a bit 2 easy to realize into transf0rming it... don't harm me 4 that

phantom pope (C0NflictC0N)

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: phantom pope:
between them 5km wide strip of UNO-presence in the beginning


Not a bad idea, considering the MFO between Egypt and Isreal has kept the peace for 30 years.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Y.M. Hut

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: khaganSo in terms of the chicken and the egg, it was neither. It was, and always will be, the fault of the United States.

Actually, it was the British that set up Isreal.

Blaming the Americans for every bad thing in the world is as goofy as GW Bush excoriating Europe for not acting like good little vassals.

In addition, is the USA the only country that has been meddling in the Muslim world?  I think not.  We are ALL to blame on this one.

No doubt the Brits were under constant pressure from UN and the Jews themselves to create a Jewish homeland state.

I didn't say that it was only the US but I truly believe that the States must take most of the blame for the mess that is the Middle East.

I don't remember voting for George W. Bush, I don't remember supporting the many interventions in the Middle East. All I can seem to remember is going to rally after rally, signing petition after petition, spraying wall after wall to oppose the United States (and MY country's) foreign policy. But I guess I am to blame.

I know I'm not any better than any American, but at least I know that. Americans (and of course I'm generalising) seem to believe they are the only people that are never in error. I don't want to bring all the blame on the States, sure they're not the only nation that is not acting as responsibly as they could. But there must be some responsibility given to the US for the mess in the Middle East and in my humble opinion, the States must receive the majority of this responsibility.

And if you didn't realise it, I was being a bit farcical by the end of my writing, playing on the general sentiment that the "US is evil incarnate".
Vielleicht sollst du nicht wissen.

Lord Trout

Quote from: khaganI believe it was the UN that "stuck their noses" into Palestine, by creating the Jewish State of Israel after WW2. I find it ironic that Israel means "struggle with God", it seems that the Jews have struggled for their entire existence as a people and throwing them into the mess that is the Middle East was just furthering their struggle.

So it was the UN that brought the "wrath" of the Israelis on Palestine. Palestinians now employ suicide attacks simply because they have no alternative. Think about it, how much oppression would it take for you to take your OWN life? It would be a hell of a lot.

US intervention in the Middle East is not as simple as Israel and Palestine though. They have consistently meddled in the foreign affairs of Middle Eastern states for decades now.

So in terms of the chicken and the egg, it was neither. It was, and always will be, the fault of the United States.

Okay, just a minute here. At first you said I believe it was the UN that "stuck their noses" into Palestine, by creating the Jewish State of Israel after WW2, then conclude your statement with It was, and always will be, the fault of the United States.

Isn't that a little contradictory? The U.S. doesn't control the UN (as has been made plain by recent events there), and never has. Anyway, I wasn't trying to lump all of the problems in the Middle East into the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

What I was saying was this: Both sides have their view on who is to blame for the hostilities, and neither is really right. They say we started it, we say they started it, and the whole mess degrades into a childish playground brawl. Much like the Israeli-Palestinian issue has.

That's where the "Chicken and Egg" analogy came in. Which came first? Our invasive foreign policy or their hate-filled policies against our interests in the region? They (and you Khagan) apparantly say the US policies started all of this, but I disagree. This goes back to the original Crusades (in 1055 I belive), which makes this the fault of the Catholic Church!

... Now you know why the Pope is so hell-bent against the war in Iraq!  :lol:
Well, shit.

Lord Trout

Quote from: khaganNo doubt the Brits were under constant pressure from UN and the Jews themselves to create a Jewish homeland state.

I didn't say that it was only the US but I truly believe that the States must take most of the blame for the mess that is the Middle East.

I don't remember voting for George W. Bush, I don't remember supporting the many interventions in the Middle East. All I can seem to remember is going to rally after rally, signing petition after petition, spraying wall after wall to oppose the United States (and MY country's) foreign policy. But I guess I am to blame.

I know I'm not any better than any American, but at least I know that. Americans (and of course I'm generalising) seem to believe they are the only people that are never in error. I don't want to bring all the blame on the States, sure they're not the only nation that is not acting as responsibly as they could. But there must be some responsibility given to the US for the mess in the Middle East and in my humble opinion, the States must receive the majority of this responsibility.

And if you didn't realise it, I was being a bit farcical by the end of my writing, playing on the general sentiment that the "US is evil incarnate".

You are absolutely right on that one. The US government has to answer for a hell of a lot in the Middle East, as well as in other theaters around the world. While our "leaders" like to tout our 'Humanitarian Aid' in places like Africa, they turn around and totally screw the pooch in other areas.

For example, we kept Saddam Hussien in power. We gave him the initial stocks of chemical and biological weapons, ostensibly so he could prevent Iran from overrunning his then-weak military forces (after he had invaded Iran). This led to 8 years of bloody warfare, in which millions of Iranians and Iraqis died horrible deaths. Then, when Hussien was no longer an asset (and he irritated us by invading Kuwait), we stomped his country into rubble.

Another shining example of our government's "wisdom" was our training and arming of Osama bin Laden's forces in Afghanistan. We couldn't allow the Soviets to get a foothold in the region, when they primarily wanted only to stop an Islamic State from setting up shop on their borders. What did we get for our assistance to bin Laden? 9-11.

There are many more examples of our poor foreign policy, but these are all seen through the clarity of hindsight. I remember when Iran took our embassy employees hostage. I also remember the Cold War with Russia. It was these things that brought us to follow a misguided policy known as "The Enemy of My Enemy is My Friend". We all know now that Hussien and binLaden were the wrong people to get into bed with, but at the time, I think necessity was all that drove our policy.

The US Government has one primary goal, when it comes to foreign policy: To win, at all costs, especially if we come out with as little blood on our own hands as possible. It isn't right, mind you. It simply is the way they are.

BTW, I didn't vote for Bush, either. I voted for Nader.
Well, shit.

Y.M. Hut

First of all Shecky, I'd like to say right on for voting for Nader.

It is, of course, quite easy to criticize the mistakes of the past. However, the strange thing is, people have been opposing US foreign policy for 50 years now. This whole "US blows" mentality is not new, nor is it a fad. Millions around the world have come to the same conclusion, the US is not right in what they are doing. However, to say "that's just the way they are" is not good enough for me.

I often get quite mad with people who give up by saying "that's just the way things are". But things will only be that way as long as we allow them to be. Things must be changed, and things will change. The anger builds, I've no doubt sputtered enough anti-US sentimentality to fill up a rally, and things will only get more emotional.

To tell you the truth, I'm getting pretty tired of the whole "United States" era. I'm just waiting for the day that China and Japan assert their potential as political and economical superpowers. Until then I guess I have to complain about the US. But I figure that in 50 years or so, people will have forgotten about the States and will instead be protesting against the Republic of China or some other Eastern nation.
Vielleicht sollst du nicht wissen.

Requia ☣

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 05, 2003, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: Spoon E. GeeI enjoy the fact that most of your rants are political.... just make sure to throw in a few that arent every now and then..
given the fact that most of us here have the same views on nearly everything..... it's good to have political speeches by like-mined people...

I really can't help it.  I am a political junkie of the first water; crackheads shake their heads when they see me, and herion addicts look at me as if they know me.

I frequently wake up in front of CSPAN, caked with my own filth.

It's a sickness, most times...right now, however, it's a survival trait.

As for non-political rants, I just says what our lady crams into my cranium.  The closest I've gotten is the "addiction to speed" sermon, or the "getting over on the bosses" sermon.

I thought I was the only one who did that.
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

East Coast Hustle

thank god there's no one here these days who would openly admit to voting for Nader.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

LMNO