The Race Test

[Kai]

Speaking of pervasive racism, I am fascinated by the fact that more than one respondent in this thread seems to be assuming that all of the children in the study were white. I am also fascinated by people who choose to express opinions on studies they obviously haven't actually bothered to read.

I suggest that before you argue about the methods used in the study, you actually download and read it. The link is in the article.

I've read the methods. No where in there is a statement about removing left/right bias to the scale, and the questions are poorly worded.

The conclusion assuming racism rather than kin selection is premature as well.

And no where did I assume all the children were white.


Most of all, I hate how CNN has sensationalized this, just like every other study out there on any subject. Media always has to make science into a spectacle.

Concluding that the children chose the lighter figures as "good" and the darker figures as "bad" because of kin selection presupposes that the children were white. If you read the study than surely you saw that their selection of study subjects was designed to equalize familiarity preference across demographics, right?

Yeah, and that the same would happen with the black children, except opposite. If in fact kin selection was at play. Is this not what I said?

Edit: I think you are refering to this statement:

You could easily randomize that aspect by swapping the pictures around, so that sometimes the white kid is on the left and sometimes the right,

By which I assumed you knew that the darker skinned example would be switched conversely. I could have said "black kid" and it would have meant exactly the same thing. We're semantic quibbling, we both agree that the study included black and white children.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

However, attributing this to racism in upbringing rather than some sort of kin selection is another point of bias.

[Kai]

However, attributing this to racism in upbringing rather than some sort of kin selection is another point of bias.

Edit: Never mind, I see what you're saying.

[Requia ☣]

Speaking of pervasive racism, I am fascinated by the fact that more than one respondent in this thread seems to be assuming that all of the children in the study were white. I am also fascinated by people who choose to express opinions on studies they obviously haven't actually bothered to read.

I suggest that before you argue about the methods used in the study, you actually download and read it. The link is in the article.

I've read the methods. No where in there is a statement about removing left/right bias to the scale, and the questions are poorly worded.

The conclusion assuming racism rather than kin selection is premature as well.

And no where did I assume all the children were white.


Most of all, I hate how CNN has sensationalized this, just like every other study out there on any subject. Media always has to make science into a spectacle.

Concluding that the children chose the lighter figures as "good" and the darker figures as "bad" because of kin selection presupposes that the children were white. If you read the study than surely you saw that their selection of study subjects was designed to equalize familiarity preference across demographics, right?

Er, I could be interpreting the report wrong, but they didn't say that the kids all chose white, they talked about 'preferred race' 'self selected skin tone' in the results section.

Edited to correct for my memory after rechecking the results section.

[Brotep]

Great job trolling that girl's mom, CNN!

[East Coast Hustle]

I don't have much to say about the study itself, but I agree that using the made-up word "grok" in all seriousness is absolutely retarded and could possibly provoke a violent and completely justified reaction if said in the wrong company.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I don't have much to say about the study itself, but I agree that using the made-up word "grok" in all seriousness is absolutely retarded and could possibly provoke a violent and completely justified reaction if said in the wrong company.

Weirdly, I started using it long before I read any Heinlein... it came from hanging out in computer geek circles many years ago and pops out of my mouth quite often. However, I'll see what I can do about eschewing it around here since it apparently impairs communication. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't have much to say about the study itself, but I agree that using the made-up word "grok" in all seriousness is absolutely retarded and could possibly provoke a violent and completely justified reaction if said in the wrong company.

Weirdly, I started using it long before I read any Heinlein... it came from hanging out in computer geek circles many years ago and pops out of my mouth quite often. However, I'll see what I can do about eschewing it around here since it apparently impairs communication. 

Interestingly, the reason it bugs the shit out of me is that I DID read Heinlein; Stranger in a Strange Land was one of the first novels I ever read and pretty much everyone uses grok FUCKING WRONG.

[East Coast Hustle]

Uninterestingly, the reason it bugs the shit out of me is because it's friggin' stupid.

[Placid Dingo]

There's an interesting one in Freakonomics where they get people to click on words or people that symbolise

Good or White

Good or Black

Evil or White

Evil or Black

Basically there's a consistent but tiny delay in Good or Black, compared to Good or White (one employee says he managed to eliminate the gep one day after he'd been watching the olympics in the morning).

Calling it rascism is a bit of a misnomer, but in terms of measuring unconcious attitudes, the kids experenent sounds interesting.

[Cramulus]

you've gotta be really careful when asking young children questions, because they don't answer rationally. This is, oddly, something that experimental psychology has only recently figured out.

For example, you know when they give the kid a doll and tell the kid "point to where the bad man touched you"?

Well it turns out that if you give a kid a doll with orifices and genitals which are not present on any doll the kid has ever seen, and you ask them just about anything, "point to the doll's nose", the kid is going to point to the doll's mystery hole or wee carrot or barn hole.



also: I am adding "grok" to my list of words to use whenever possible 

[AFK]

What was left out of this is the whole "it takes a village to raise a child" angle.  In other words, the easy conclusion is that it's all the parents' fault.  But, I think another point to consider is the role of the culture and environment.  I say this particularly in light of the reporting on the article that mentioned black children also tended to point to the light skinned child as being smarter.  I have a suspicion that part of what is being reflected here isn't solely the values of the parents, but the values of the community and society the children are living in.  Kids are far more observant than they are often given credit for and absorb quite a bit, from TV, etc.,   

And really CNN, was it really necessary to put some well-meaning parents through the emotional ringer like that?  Leave the kids and parents alone and conduct these experiments on conservative talk show hosts instead. 

[Iason Ouabache]

also: I am adding "grok" to my list of words to use whenever possible 

We should start grokking our memes all the time.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

To further the derail, Rat has been using "grok" pretty much forever as far as I can remember.  Why get worked up about it now?

[Requia ☣]

Dok has called him out on it before.