fusion centers

[fomenter]

not feeling paranoid? we have a cure its called fusion centers

WHAT'S A FUSION CENTER YOU ASK?  THEY'RE  A SET OF  LOCAL INTELLIGENCE CENTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY CREATED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY TO COMBAT TERRORISM AND RELATED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.  AND NOW ACORDING TO A REPORT BY ONE OF THESE FUSION CENTERS, IF YOU'RE AN ANTI ABORTION ACTIVIST, IF YOU'VE SUPPORTED THIRD PARTY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES LIKE RON PAUL, CHUCK BALDWIN, OR BOB BARR.  OR BELIEVE IN THE IDEA THAT THE U S, MEXICO, AND CANADA WILL SOMEDAY FORM A NORTH AMERICAN UNION, THEN YOU MAY BE SPECIALLY TARGETED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

ACLU - http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/32966pub20071205.html
wiki-leaks (right-wing fear) - http://wikileaks.de/wiki/Missouri_Information_Analysis_Center:_The_Modern_Militia_Movement,_20_Feb_2009
DHS - http://www.dhs.gov/xinfoshare/programs/gc_1156877184684.shtm
support bob bar? - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/23/fusion-centers-expand-criteria-identify-militia-members/

of course if you don't like having the fearTM you might think of ways to use the collection of information for your own purposes

[fomenter]

"they" are tightening the noose,  sure the fusion centers entered into the news through the paranoid right wing media, but don't expect the representative of change to do anything but use the gains bush gave him, there is no hope for power grabbed to be restored,
so you are putting yourself out there getting people to think for themselves?
great  but will your disdain for the tinfoil hat militias keep your name off the lists? or will you be on top of the game? can you work the system to your goals? or will you just be a marked man marginalized and rendered ineffective? the data mining has begun ....

[hunter s.durden]

At first I kind of ignored this, because I refuse to put an effort into FAUX News Sensationalism Monster, but did I see ACLU?

FOX News + ACLU = WTF?

Ah I see though. ACLU didn't like it when Bush was in charge, and Fox is just getting around to reporting on it since they will inevitably be used to house Christians.

I can't see this as anything but another long bomb from the right to demonize the left for running with the very ideas they set up in the first place. I don't like the idea of them either, but I find it hilarious that someone could get locked up in the prison that they themselves built.

[Elder Iptuous]

Right wing/Left wing....
It takes two wings for the vulture to fly.
the reason you think one wing is dominant at any given time is because it is flying in circles above our doomed asses. 

[Pope Lecherous]

"they" are tightening the noose,  sure the fusion centers entered into the news through the paranoid right wing media, but don't expect the representative of change to do anything but use the gains bush gave him, there is no hope for power grabbed to be restored,
so you are putting yourself out there getting people to think for themselves?
great  but will your disdain for the tinfoil hat militias keep your name off the lists? or will you be on top of the game? can you work the system to your goals? or will you just be a marked man marginalized and rendered ineffective? the data mining has begun ....

I can say that i'll be visiting one in a few months for job opportunities.  I'm sure that during the course of your work that you've been held responsible for somebody else's actions, regardless of whether or not you had any part in or knowledge of what happened.  These people don't have time for silly little conspiracies against people, nor do they care about your personal data as it's analyzed and they move on.  They are held responsible for anything and everything in their AO and their job is literally endless.  just throwing that out there.

The data they share with other agencies is pertinent to ongoing investigations.  Maybe, you consider their 'flags' ridiculous but the complexities are kind of understated in those articles, and particularly in a way to create the reaction that sells more papers.

[fomenter]

fox news + ACLU  caught my attention too, if had just been wingnuttery i might not have bothered to post.

they have an interest in people that are doing things that are effective.
many here hope to up there game and become effective,
and that means knowing what they do and how they do it is potentially relevant.. just because you see mind fucks and TFYSS as a game and fun,
doesn't mean they wont view it a subversive and use the information and agencies that collect it against you if you were to become effective

i don't care about right-wing sensationalism or conspiratorial theories about internment camps, there are better and cheaper ways to discredit and shut up those that might oppose the direction that this country is headed , and i am in a pissed off mood about that direction today, reading the article Cain posted about bail outs and the  rant TGGR put up yesterday  got me going, and this was a nice little topper,

so it may be a weak rant but i say its a legitimate concern to know what powers the beast left for the smiler  to use and  abuse

Right wing/Left wing....
It takes two wings for the vulture to fly.
the reason you think one wing is dominant at any given time is because it is flying in circles above our doomed asses. 

[fomenter]

i also find the idea of someone being locked up or abused by the system they created amusing, but it wont happen,
i suspect either party would be glad to see the extremists on their side pared away when they no longer serve a purpose,
the big players will be immune as always


edit to add - the JBS troll has put me on a news letter list,  http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/911 conspiratorial stuff but it has some info and comments the other links don't...

[Cain]

On one hand, the threat of far-right terrorism is very real, and a more pressing risk to US security than, say, Al-Qaeda.  There do need to be steps taken to smash the "Patriot" movement before it reforms, which it seems to be doing right now.  And those themes mentioned are prevalent among such groups.

However, if people are not joining the organizations with an empahsis on "direct action" or whatever euphemism they want to use for building pipe bombs and drawing up hit-lists, if they are not linked to individuals known to be involved in such circles, then I would be worried about the attention they are getting.  Its entirely possible to have lunatic ideas and not be violent about it.

There is also the irony, which Hunter noted.

[fomenter]

real threat " right wing militants with no impulse control " vs sweeping generalisations and the abuse of new information collection powers,

perhaps i am being paranoid thinking anything we can do would get us on a list like this, none of the ideas we have would fall under the label of direct action or suspect ideology, i am sure it will be used responsibly against the militants and terrorists it was intended for, as pope L mentioned with the volumes of information they collect  and go though, we are below the radar and i am sure if we were responsible for some effective and recognized event, they would never go back and check the information again to look for a bunch of harmless pranksters..

i am not going to worry about the government hassling a few innocent gun nuts and libertarians in their pursuit of real threats why should i, they aren't coming after me, the type of signs and bumper sticker they look for aren't the kind i put up so i will do nothing...

since discordian wasn't mentioned as one of the labels being used it never will be, and the types of things in the following quote cant happen to you. no need to be prepared, to understand staying off the radar, understand how information gets collected and used, not relevant to us at all please return to your regular scheduled sillyness you are just a ineffective and harmless prankster after all...

Do you not see how dangerous this kind of slanderous labeling can become? It could affect your flight status when you try to board an airline. It could affect your application for sensitive jobs. It could affect your adjudication before a court or judge. It could make you a target for aggressive law enforcement strategies. It could affect your being able to obtain a passport. It could affect one's ability to purchase a firearm or receive a State concealed weapon permit.

This is very serious business! We are not talking about private opinions. We are talking about law enforcement agencies. And remember, most law enforcement agencies share these types of reports; therefore, how many other state police agencies have similar reports floating around? Probably several. Plus, how do we know that this report was not influenced by federal police agencies? We don't.

According to Shinn, they detained him for about 45 minutes while they searched his van — without probable cause, without his permission, and without a search warrant. "I didn't have anything illegal, so they didn't find anything to arrest me for or ticket me for," he recalls. Still, it was a very unsettling experience. There was no question in his mind that he had been targeted because of his political bumper stickers, which are a form of expression that is supposed to be protected under the First Amendment. "

"not relevant to us at all"

or is it?

[Cain]

I'm not sure if you're being snarky towards my post here or not, but if you are, I suggest you go back and read it again.

Cain,
has already expressed concern about the potential for political policing and violations of civil rights trumping genuine security threats.

[fomenter]

I'm not sure if you're being snarky towards my post here or not, but if you are, I suggest you go back and read it again.

Cain,
has already expressed concern about the potential for political policing and violations of civil rights trumping genuine security threats.

not toward your post, more toward the general its right wing it doesn't apply to us, lack of serious discussion on the be prepared front, i would love to have more to contribute on how they collect data, how to stay off the radar how to use it to our advantage etc but i have no expertise, so all i have is my "so far failed" ability to get the subject going..

[Cain]

OK then.

First of all, staying off the radar, or attempting to, will almost certainly draw more attention to you.  Its the first thought of the people we'd really rather see in court as well, so many of the avenues that purport to help in this are nothing more than honeypots.

The trick is to have a rock solid defence (ie never get into a situation which can even ever be miscontrued as supporting those groups), make it clear you disavow the tactics of such people from the outset, know the relevant laws inside out and make sure people you know have the relevant information necessary to cause a ruckus if necessary, such as media contacts, human rights lawyers and relevant documentation.  Raising awareness within those peaceful groups and to try and form a consensus on getting rid of the extremists among their ranks is also a good idea.

If the people in charge of the counter-terrorism strategy are smart, they will almost certainly be doing the final one.  If terrorism, is, in fact, their concern.  If its not, then its a data-collecting exercise, and the best bet is to try and hit as many of the "normal" patterns of behaviour as possible, to hide among the vast quanitity of ordinary people whose details will be picked up in such a venture.  Nails that stick out too far have a tendency to get hammered down.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

hit as many of the "normal" patterns of behaviour as possible, to hide among the vast quanitity of ordinary people

This is very good advice. Almost all of the models used to detect suspicious activity look for that which is out of the realm of normal. You might use PGP to protect all of your sensitive emails... but it would appear abnormal to something monitoring your traffic... why are only these emails encrypted? Who do they go to? How often do they go out?

The act of protecting yourself, exposes you. On the flip side, if you blend in with everyone else...

In network security, we have these great toys called Intrusion Detection and Intrusion Prevention. They watch traffic patterns and look for anything abnormal. They pretty effective. However, there are 'stick' attacks which generate tons and tons of abnormal traffic, and then slip the actual attack in among the more normal traffic. Unless you've got some really beefy servers, you're not likely to catch the actual attack.

If the abnormal traffic could be considered analogous to our freaky far right friends, then you want to be the 'almost normal' traffic that slides by

[fomenter]

thank you

i just realised this is going to be chapter 2 in TGRR's manual maybe it will generate some good material..

"hit as many of the "normal" patterns of behaviour as possible, to hide among the vast quantity of ordinary people whose details will be picked up in such a venture"

i like this, it would be my definition of staying off the radar in an information age where information is easy to find and follow the living of the grid no id type of off the radar is out of date and i agree most likely a honeypot to catch the truly up to no good types that it attracts (also ratts comments on encryption)

(ie never get into a situation which can even ever be misconstrued as supporting those groups),

definitely stay away from any association with those being targeted,
it doe's raise a question about groups you are already associated with being put on a target list and trolling membership on suspect forums, membership for trolling purposes is indistinguishable from real membership to a data collection...

[Cain]

Usually better to target them via a third party site or some sort of neutral venue, its true.  On the other hand, if it ever gets as far as a court, the content of your messages will become very important.  Intent is a massive part of Anglo-American jurisprudence.