Plus, I Got Religion

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Taken out of human context, words are meaningless.

That context is dependent on people of a specific, time and place.

If all human beings died, many things—words on billboards, roads, heaps of garbage—would remain, but meaning wouldn't.

Meaning lies in human experience, not outside of it or in words themselves.

Words are tools used to create meaning in people.

Uh, yeah, but they aren't taken out of human context, so in the context we're talking about, they do have meaning.

The point was that people create the meaning, not the words.

Who cares what creates the meaning?  The fact is that the meaning is there, the meaning is real, and if you doubt this, go up to a cop and say "suck my dick".  While he's beating your arse bloody, you can try to explain to him that, subjectively, you were saying "have a nice day".

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It's not so much that others bug me, personally, as that I'm getting the growing sense that this particular corner of Discordia is becoming increasingly closed to those of us who do have religion; the spiritual and the religious, whether reverently or irreverently so. How many people here will confess to being spiritual or religious, in the face of being mocked by their atheism-embracing peers? I know several who are privately spiritual... yet religion-baiting is a popular sport here, and I take part in it too. I don't despise religion, though, or the religious, even though I may be eccentric in the way I practice mine. I despise evangelism and fundamentalism in almost all aspects, for the way the practitioners of those try to impose their irrational, indefensible beliefs on others.

Like I said in another thread, I don't want to see PD.com Discordianism turn into Pastafarianism. I like the St. Maes of Discord, and I think it would be pretty sad if people like she or I or some of the others I know felt marginalized here. Well, some of them already do.

1.  If someone marginalizes you, smack a motherfucker down.

2.  See #1.

Atheism, unlike agnosticism, is just another faith.  Would you let Christians push you around?  Scientologists?  Buddhists?

[Soylent Green]

This isn't finished, but it's as much as I feel like writing right now.


I don't talk about my religion much. For one thing, I don't want to have to explain it... it's complicated. For another thing, I don't relish getting caught in the explain/justify/defend cycle that happens so often, especially when talking to a social group that is rich in devout atheists. I find that in situations like that, atheists become evangelistic, as if they're on a mission to pry religion from every mind they encounter. I don't like the judgment, the condemnation, or the derision – it's easier to never bring it up at all, and let them assume that I'm one of their fold.

One of the reasons I don't like being in a position where I'm asked to defend my religion is because I find that religion is indefensible. It's not logical; more like humor than it is like love, it defies being pinned down with algorithms and intellectualism. Much of what is funny is subjective, makes no sense, and cannot be predicted, and to me, that's what religion is like. Not only can I not explain or justify why I have it, I don't even care to try. No, really. I don't. It's not something I take great comfort in, because I'm not a believer in a benevolent god. It's just something I have faith in... faith, which cannot be logically defended. Something pretty absurd. You either get it or you don't.

Friends confronted with the fact that I have religion are often disbelieving, then derisive. "You don't really believe in that, do you? I mean, you don't believe that it's really for real real, right?"

Truth?

Sometimes, sometimes not. Sometimes it's metaphor, sometimes it's an exercise of the mind, and sometimes it's really for real real, something that came with me from my ancestors. Something so pants-wettingly old that I'd be seriously disrespecting my ancestors if I thumbed my nose at believing in it. It's as real as their existences, as their bone fragments littering the desert in Jerome and their skeletons being slowly permeated by minerals in Conwy, Echota, and Mombasa. If I imagine something, does it exist? Well... of course! Sort of.

The simplest way for me to explain why I have religion is to say that it's because I've decided to. I like it.

Fuck you, Kai.

Lol with the insanely religious friends I have I am usually persecuted for being atheist.

But whenever I attack someones religion it is because they blindly accept something that is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, I MUST force logic into all aspects of life, because really 99% of everything makes sense when you learn enough about it, like if I sent a battery powered portable DVD player to ancient Greece. They would think a god sent it back and that a god was making the images on the screen, but once they learn how it works they see that it isn't a god, but merely electricity. So that is why I hate illogical religions.

Really I just believe all religions are hallucinations; a method for control; or a method of explaining the world to those who don't understand it, like assigning a god who governs the atoms, because we do not fully understand them yet; a scam to get money, or a rip-off of another religion.

So yeah.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

But whenever I attack someones religion it is because they blindly accept something that is absolutely ridiculous.

Everyone does that.  Even you.

[Tempest Virago]

This isn't finished, but it's as much as I feel like writing right now.


I don't talk about my religion much. For one thing, I don't want to have to explain it... it's complicated. For another thing, I don't relish getting caught in the explain/justify/defend cycle that happens so often, especially when talking to a social group that is rich in devout atheists. I find that in situations like that, atheists become evangelistic, as if they're on a mission to pry religion from every mind they encounter. I don't like the judgment, the condemnation, or the derision – it's easier to never bring it up at all, and let them assume that I'm one of their fold.

One of the reasons I don't like being in a position where I'm asked to defend my religion is because I find that religion is indefensible. It's not logical; more like humor than it is like love, it defies being pinned down with algorithms and intellectualism. Much of what is funny is subjective, makes no sense, and cannot be predicted, and to me, that's what religion is like. Not only can I not explain or justify why I have it, I don't even care to try. No, really. I don't. It's not something I take great comfort in, because I'm not a believer in a benevolent god. It's just something I have faith in... faith, which cannot be logically defended. Something pretty absurd. You either get it or you don't.

Friends confronted with the fact that I have religion are often disbelieving, then derisive. "You don't really believe in that, do you? I mean, you don't believe that it's really for real real, right?"

Truth?

Sometimes, sometimes not. Sometimes it's metaphor, sometimes it's an exercise of the mind, and sometimes it's really for real real, something that came with me from my ancestors. Something so pants-wettingly old that I'd be seriously disrespecting my ancestors if I thumbed my nose at believing in it. It's as real as their existences, as their bone fragments littering the desert in Jerome and their skeletons being slowly permeated by minerals in Conwy, Echota, and Mombasa. If I imagine something, does it exist? Well... of course! Sort of.

The simplest way for me to explain why I have religion is to say that it's because I've decided to. I like it.

Fuck you, Kai.

Lol with the insanely religious friends I have I am usually persecuted for being atheist.

But whenever I attack someones religion it is because they blindly accept something that is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, I MUST force logic into all aspects of life, because really 99% of everything makes sense when you learn enough about it, like if I sent a battery powered portable DVD player to ancient Greece. They would think a god sent it back and that a god was making the images on the screen, but once they learn how it works they see that it isn't a god, but merely electricity. So that is why I hate illogical religions.

Really I just believe all religions are hallucinations; a method for control; or a method of explaining the world to those who don't understand it, like assigning a god who governs the atoms, because we do not fully understand them yet; a scam to get money, or a rip-off of another religion.

So yeah.

1. I don't get it, why MUST you force other people to follow your logic? Who cares if they aren't "logical"? It's not hurting you.

2. You don't know much about ancient Greece, do you?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

1. I don't get it, why MUST you force other people to follow your logic? Who cares if they aren't "logical"? It's not hurting you.

Well, because he's so much smarter than them, obviously.  Because he doesn't ever believe in anything that defies logic.   

TGRR,
Is willing to be the spag even believes that the US "government" exists.

[Tempest Virago]

1. I don't get it, why MUST you force other people to follow your logic? Who cares if they aren't "logical"? It's not hurting you.

Well, because he's so much smarter than them, obviously.  Because he doesn't ever believe in anything that defies logic.   

TGRR,
Is willing to be the spag even believes that the US "government" exists.

This is why it's embarrassing to admit to being an atheist.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

1. I don't get it, why MUST you force other people to follow your logic? Who cares if they aren't "logical"? It's not hurting you.

Well, because he's so much smarter than them, obviously.  Because he doesn't ever believe in anything that defies logic.   

TGRR,
Is willing to be the spag even believes that the US "government" exists.

This is why it's embarrassing to admit to being an atheist.

Why?  It's kinda like being a Calvinist, only you sneer at Christians instead of poor people.

[Tempest Virago]

1. I don't get it, why MUST you force other people to follow your logic? Who cares if they aren't "logical"? It's not hurting you.

Well, because he's so much smarter than them, obviously.  Because he doesn't ever believe in anything that defies logic.   

TGRR,
Is willing to be the spag even believes that the US "government" exists.

This is why it's embarrassing to admit to being an atheist.

Why?  It's kinda like being a Calvinist, only you sneer at Christians instead of poor people.

I don't like sneering at groups, only individuals.

Immediately after I posted this, I realized that I sneer at hipsters, e-tards/ravers and libertarians all the time. Fuck, I'm a hypocrite. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't like sneering at groups, only individuals.

I like sneering at groups.  For example, the group that embodies "every fucking human being on the planet".

Immediately after I posted this, I realized that I sneer at hipsters, e-tards/ravers and libertarians all the time. Fuck, I'm a hypocrite. 

No, you simply misspoke.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's not so much that others bug me, personally, as that I'm getting the growing sense that this particular corner of Discordia is becoming increasingly closed to those of us who do have religion; the spiritual and the religious, whether reverently or irreverently so. How many people here will confess to being spiritual or religious, in the face of being mocked by their atheism-embracing peers? I know several who are privately spiritual... yet religion-baiting is a popular sport here, and I take part in it too. I don't despise religion, though, or the religious, even though I may be eccentric in the way I practice mine. I despise evangelism and fundamentalism in almost all aspects, for the way the practitioners of those try to impose their irrational, indefensible beliefs on others.

Like I said in another thread, I don't want to see PD.com Discordianism turn into Pastafarianism. I like the St. Maes of Discord, and I think it would be pretty sad if people like she or I or some of the others I know felt marginalized here. Well, some of them already do.

1.  If someone marginalizes you, smack a motherfucker down.

2.  See #1.

Atheism, unlike agnosticism, is just another faith.  Would you let Christians push you around?  Scientologists?  Buddhists?

Nope, but I wouldn't hang out with a bunch of them for fun, either.

[Kai]

Actually, symbols are somewhat arbitrary.

Words are not.

Not if we plan on having anything more than that "all is maya" crap.

Words are not meaningless. That doesn't mean that the fact that these particular scritch marks here indicate this sound here and that sound indicates a particular concept, that doesn't mean those conjunctions of lines and sound and meaning have any particular meaning above the meaning of the concept. Words are symbols, and symbols are somewhat arbitrary, not in MEANING, but in FORM.

For example, take the written letters "you". That a line crossed down to a longer line next to a circle next to an arch together indicate a particular sound and a particular meaning is arbitrary. The letters that indicate those sounds could have turned out like anything, those set of lines only have that particular meaning because we all agree they have that particular meaning. Its otherwise somewhat arbitrary.

Thats what I was saying. Not that "all is maya" or whatever you are talking about.

Sorry.  My symbols seem to have suddenly jumped out of phase with yours, arbitrarily, and I couldn't make heads or tails of your post.  No offense; it seems that I have gorgoplatz.  Arib?  Jsyt mig poop?

Okay.

Kai,

Knows when its time to leave a discussion.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Thanks Jim.

Specialist boards are better for specialist interests anyroad. I don't talk much about gran turismo games here, got I got gt planet for that shit. This board is harder to nail down but there is a sorta implicit list of shit that doesn't belong here. You want to test the waters? Fine, post about it and see if it gets you flamed 

Pent, not to put too fine a point on it, but this is a special interest board for a religion. 

Heh, my bad. I keep forgetting that discordianism is meant to be a religion. I never ever think of it in those terms. 

[LMNO]

Thanks Jim.

Specialist boards are better for specialist interests anyroad. I don't talk much about gran turismo games here, got I got gt planet for that shit. This board is harder to nail down but there is a sorta implicit list of shit that doesn't belong here. You want to test the waters? Fine, post about it and see if it gets you flamed 

Pent, not to put too fine a point on it, but this is a special interest board for a religion. 

It is?  I thought it was a special interest board designed to strip out assumptive certainties and absolutes from any given belief system.


Shit.  Now what do I do?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Thanks Jim.

Specialist boards are better for specialist interests anyroad. I don't talk much about gran turismo games here, got I got gt planet for that shit. This board is harder to nail down but there is a sorta implicit list of shit that doesn't belong here. You want to test the waters? Fine, post about it and see if it gets you flamed 

Pent, not to put too fine a point on it, but this is a special interest board for a religion. 

It is?  I thought it was a special interest board designed to strip out assumptive certainties and absolutes from any given belief system.


Shit.  Now what do I do?

Pray. To Eris. For forgiveness and shit.