How to Help Raving Mad People

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

In fact, once you exclude blacks and women and the poor, then what you have left, statistically speaking, is middle-class or wealthy white men. Which is exactly the model "average person" researchers have used for the last couple of centuries, leading to an astonishing range of health disparities among blacks, women, and the poor.

It's amazing to me that I never thought of that.

If it's any consolation, most people don't.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Interesting: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140602104857.htm

It's a bit of an aside but you seem to have been spot on!

Summary:
A new study finds a link between prenatal maternal stress and the development of symptoms of asthma and autism in children. Scientists have been studying women who were pregnant during the January 1998 Quebec ice storm since June of that year and observing effects of their stress on their children's development (Project Ice Storm). The team examined the degree to which the mothers' objective degree of hardship from the storm and their subjective degree of distress explained differences among the women's children in asthma-like symptoms and in autism-like traits.

Now, my question is, is autism actually more prevalent now, or is it simply being diagnosed as autism recently?

From the research I've read (I'd do a lit search but I have to leave in 12 minutes), both are true. Higher correct diagnosis rates, and a higher actual rate.

[Doktor Howl]

Our society is trained to breed catastrophists. Something going wrong? The sky is falling! All is lost! The world is going to Hell in a handbasket!

Yep.  Also, kids are a socially-acceptable target for horrible generalizations, because they are young and old people resent their youth.

I think that part of the reason for that is that people don't tend to feel like they can tackle catastrophes, whereas if it's presented as a social problem and not a giant out of control snowball of disaster, people will try to do something about it. Those in power are benefited from the status-quo, so the fewer people out there trying to change things, the happier they are.

Yep.  Like LMNO said, you don't need a conspiracy when the game is already rigged.

Shit's changing anyway, because enough people are willing to scream at the ocean.

I keep telling my dad that.  He and all the older liberals I know are always on about doom, how the nutbags have overrun the country, etc, when it's more or less a loud minority.

[Doktor Howl]

Interesting: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140602104857.htm

It's a bit of an aside but you seem to have been spot on!

Summary:
A new study finds a link between prenatal maternal stress and the development of symptoms of asthma and autism in children. Scientists have been studying women who were pregnant during the January 1998 Quebec ice storm since June of that year and observing effects of their stress on their children's development (Project Ice Storm). The team examined the degree to which the mothers' objective degree of hardship from the storm and their subjective degree of distress explained differences among the women's children in asthma-like symptoms and in autism-like traits.

Now, my question is, is autism actually more prevalent now, or is it simply being diagnosed as autism recently?

From the research I've read (I'd do a lit search but I have to leave in 12 minutes), both are true. Higher correct diagnosis rates, and a higher actual rate.

Might tie into my "avalanche of information" hypothesis.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Our society is trained to breed catastrophists. Something going wrong? The sky is falling! All is lost! The world is going to Hell in a handbasket!

Yep.  Also, kids are a socially-acceptable target for horrible generalizations, because they are young and old people resent their youth.

I think that part of the reason for that is that people don't tend to feel like they can tackle catastrophes, whereas if it's presented as a social problem and not a giant out of control snowball of disaster, people will try to do something about it. Those in power are benefited from the status-quo, so the fewer people out there trying to change things, the happier they are.

Yep.  Like LMNO said, you don't need a conspiracy when the game is already rigged.

Shit's changing anyway, because enough people are willing to scream at the ocean.

I keep telling my dad that.  He and all the older liberals I know are always on about doom, how the nutbags have overrun the country, etc, when it's more or less a loud minority.

A loud and dwindling minority. All you have to do is look at the social change over the last fifteen years and that much is obvious. But old people tend to get stuck in ideas they picked up in their middle-age, and can have a hard time seeing current reality through the 20-year-old veil over their eyes.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Interesting: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140602104857.htm

It's a bit of an aside but you seem to have been spot on!

Summary:
A new study finds a link between prenatal maternal stress and the development of symptoms of asthma and autism in children. Scientists have been studying women who were pregnant during the January 1998 Quebec ice storm since June of that year and observing effects of their stress on their children's development (Project Ice Storm). The team examined the degree to which the mothers' objective degree of hardship from the storm and their subjective degree of distress explained differences among the women's children in asthma-like symptoms and in autism-like traits.

Now, my question is, is autism actually more prevalent now, or is it simply being diagnosed as autism recently?

From the research I've read (I'd do a lit search but I have to leave in 12 minutes), both are true. Higher correct diagnosis rates, and a higher actual rate.

Might tie into my "avalanche of information" hypothesis.

I don't know... I think that people have more sources of information, but are also getting better at filtering it. I am completely skeptical that it is causing some sort of undue stress level. Research that I have seen specifically points at social helplessness and disempowerment  - social hierarchy - as being the main stressor in urban primates.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm trying to find the paper by Andrea Lunsford about digital literacy, but I'm out of time.

[Doktor Howl]

Interesting: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140602104857.htm

It's a bit of an aside but you seem to have been spot on!

Summary:
A new study finds a link between prenatal maternal stress and the development of symptoms of asthma and autism in children. Scientists have been studying women who were pregnant during the January 1998 Quebec ice storm since June of that year and observing effects of their stress on their children's development (Project Ice Storm). The team examined the degree to which the mothers' objective degree of hardship from the storm and their subjective degree of distress explained differences among the women's children in asthma-like symptoms and in autism-like traits.

Now, my question is, is autism actually more prevalent now, or is it simply being diagnosed as autism recently?

From the research I've read (I'd do a lit search but I have to leave in 12 minutes), both are true. Higher correct diagnosis rates, and a higher actual rate.

Might tie into my "avalanche of information" hypothesis.

I don't know... I think that people have more sources of information, but are also getting better at filtering it. I am completely skeptical that it is causing some sort of undue stress level. Research that I have seen specifically points at social helplessness and disempowerment  - social hierarchy - as being the main stressor in urban primates.

My kids filter it better, mostly by being way better with electronic doodads.  I don't mean techically better, I mean they're far more comfortable with them.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm trying to find the paper by Andrea Lunsford about digital literacy, but I'm out of time.

So post it tomorrow.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

On the subject of "society driving people mad" angle (from like a million pages ago because I am a slowpoke:

One really interesting set of statistics to look at is the post partum depression and post partum psychosis rates in the US compared to other countries. What you see is a fairly stable level of psychosis across the board, implying there's a biological thing at work for the ones who go that bad. The rates for post partum depression, though, are through the roof in the US and much lower in countries that do things like have reasonable maternity leave and social support systems.

Stretching that a lot further than it can probably go, I think it's reasonable to ask whether society causes certain kinds of madness, but I don't believe you can blame the "raving mad" level stuff on environment. There was a thread somewhere around here about how people in different countries reacted to auditory hallucinations, too. Folks in industrialized nations hated the voices and the voices were generally dickish, and in some other places the voices were more benign and the people had a much healthier relationship with them. That doesn't change the fact that these people had voices in their heads. Society may exacerbate an individual's perception of their own biochemical problems, but it doesn't change the fact that they have deep seated biochemical problems.

[Junkenstein]

Stretching that a lot further than it can probably go, I think it's reasonable to ask whether society causes certain kinds of madness, but I don't believe you can blame the "raving mad" level stuff on environment.(1) There was a thread somewhere around here about how people in different countries reacted to auditory hallucinations, too. Folks in industrialized nations hated the voices and the voices were generally dickish, and in some other places the voices were more benign and the people had a much healthier relationship with them.(2) That doesn't change the fact that these people had voices in their heads. Society may exacerbate an individual's perception of their own biochemical problems, but it doesn't change the fact that they have deep seated biochemical problems.

1 - Here's a thing though, there's quite a few specific psychoses related to a particular environment. I'm sure an underlying biochemical imbalance helps trigger say, Messiah syndrome (Go to Jerusalem or similar and go crazy). While hardly common or the norm, it's frequent enough for me to question if there's not certain societal imprints (Heavy religious environment) which then helps provoke reactions in unexpected ways later. On another extreme consider say the prison system. I can't see it doing a kid much good to be exposed to such an environment at a young age but it's the reality for many, everywhere. What kind of adverse psychological reactions might this foster? I honestly have no idea but I can't expect it to be none at all.

(ETA - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29765623 - Cross post from Random news thread on contract children in Switzerland. Very short version - Many kids taken at various ages and placed in foster homes/work farms. General level of care and attention to welfare of kids not good. Massive fallout affecting many people, whole range of effects. I can't think of a more on the nose example of a bad environment resulting in massive issues in mental health. Even if you were not biologically pre-disposed to it anyway, you're fighting the odds to come through it with no lasting issues.)

2 - I remember that thread, though no idea which/where it is. If I recall correctly the nature of the society played a big part in this too. The general level of social support/contact had a big role in the overall problem being treated in a fairly positive or negative way. I think there was some other stuff about them fulfilling a "shaman" role as well? That may have been getting to woo territory.

[MMIX]

Was it this one

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Hallucinatory 'voices' shaped by local culture

[Junkenstein]

For some reason, I seem to recall it being a Sapolsky video?
I think I was thinking of a section in this:
ETA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEnklxGAmak

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Holy crap, Lunsford's prolific. I can't find the article I was thinking of, but I found a billion others and a ton of articles referencing it.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201311/why-social-networks-may-be-making-us-smarter

Doesn't exactly support what I was trying to say, but interesting nonetheless.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I can't find any research papers on the effects of media overload on chronic stress levels or mental illness, but I am thinking that Cacioppo's probably a good place to start, since the role of online communication in stress, loneliness, and depression is kind of his ball game.