What Does An Obama Win Mean?

[Shadowdaemon]

Troof. Slavery was really not the central issue in the Civil war, it was just the most powerful appeal to emotion that either side could come up with for the PR machines.

Exactly.

Hell, Lincoln was VERY explicit about stating that he thought that Negros were inferior and should not mix socially, professionally, or sexually with white folk, he just knew a huge pool of potential soldiers who would fight for cheap when he saw one.

Yeah, I'd also heard that he actually wanted to just ship all the black people back to Africa but I've not seen any proof of it(most likely because if it exists I never searched for it).

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Lincoln wanted them to go to Liberia:
http://www.etymonline.com/cw/lincoln.htm
Frankly, while I can see where Lincoln was coming from, I believe that people once transplanted no longer belong to the land they may have come from, but the land in which they now reside. People who focus too much on race and ancestry underestimate the power of the land in shaping its immigrants into a new tribe.

Historically, my Apache ancestors and their less migratory cousins, the Navajo, believed that a nations' history begins when it chooses a new place to settle. Therefore, although the two groups came from the same ancestors and settled the Southwest at the same time, they are two nations, because they chose different environments and different lifestyles. Monster Slayer and Child of Water; one heritage, two nations.

On the other side, my Welsh ancestors also believe that the people belong to the land they choose to live in. The land shapes us. Once here, our ancestors no longer belonged to whatever land they came from, and their new tribe became those they lived with.

I don't know enough about my African ancestry to say boo to what they believed, so who knows? Anyway, it may be just a bunch of hippie-dippy nonsense, but I think there's a lot of truth in it.

[East Coast Hustle]

have you read American Gods?

if not, you should.

[Cain]

Strangely enough, I read the exact quote by Lincoln a couple of days ago that you are all probably talking about:

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."
- Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

have you read American Gods?

if not, you should.

I have not, but on your advice I just ordered it and will be reading it shortly, thanks!

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

have you read American Gods?

if not, you should.

I have not, but on your advice I just ordered it and will be reading it shortly, thanks!

I second that! It's an awesome book... and I'm in it...


Also, that's a great quote Cain. Lincoln is one of the most misunderstood individuals in American culture. He and the whole Civil War, in fact.

[Vene]

have you read American Gods?

if not, you should.

I have not, but on your advice I just ordered it and will be reading it shortly, thanks!

I second that! It's an awesome book... and I'm in it...


Also, that's a great quote Cain. Lincoln is one of the most misunderstood individuals in American culture. He and the whole Civil War, in fact.

It's not surprising considering that's how the American Civil War is taught.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

have you read American Gods?

if not, you should.

I have not, but on your advice I just ordered it and will be reading it shortly, thanks!

I second that! It's an awesome book... and I'm in it...


Also, that's a great quote Cain. Lincoln is one of the most misunderstood individuals in American culture. He and the whole Civil War, in fact.

It's not surprising considering that's how the American Civil War is taught.

troof 100%

[Requia ☣]

Troof. Slavery was really not the central issue in the Civil war, it was just the most powerful appeal to emotion that either side could come up with for the PR machines.

Slavery was certainly not an issue for much of the southern populace (who suffered greatly because of the economic situation it created), and was basically used to gain support in the north, but do you really believe that only the states with a slave owning elite class joining the rebellion was coincidence?

[Elder Iptuous]

Troof. Slavery was really not the central issue in the Civil war, it was just the most powerful appeal to emotion that either side could come up with for the PR machines.

Slavery was certainly not an issue for much of the southern populace (who suffered greatly because of the economic situation it created), and was basically used to gain support in the north, but do you really believe that only the states with a slave owning elite class joining the rebellion was coincidence?

Of course it wasn't coincidence.  Conflict over slavery was the reason that southern states originally seceded.  That was not, however the reason that there was war.  I think that is all that is being said here.

[Golden Applesauce]

Troof. Slavery was really not the central issue in the Civil war, it was just the most powerful appeal to emotion that either side could come up with for the PR machines.

Slavery was certainly not an issue for much of the southern populace (who suffered greatly because of the economic situation it created), and was basically used to gain support in the north, but do you really believe that only the states with a slave owning elite class joining the rebellion was coincidence?

Of course it wasn't coincidence.  Conflict over slavery was the reason that southern states originally seceded.  That was not, however the reason that there was war.  I think that is all that is being said here.

I thought it had something to do with a tariff on manufactured goods from Mother England, which forced the South to purchase lower-quality higher-priced goods from the North.  The South tried to overturn it a couple of time, but when the North kept rejecting their efforts, the South realized that it was essentially existing for the economic benefit of the North.  They had both taxation and representation... just less representation than the northern states.

[Cain]

As with most wars, there seems to be a convergence of multiple interests of varying power that lead to it.  The ecoomic impact of slavery was likely more important than the moral issue, but the latter sure looks better, both to posterity and to the English at the time, who dominated world trade and were on something of a post-Wilberforce meets economic interest crusade to rid major powers the benefits of slave labour.

[Requia ☣]

Troof. Slavery was really not the central issue in the Civil war, it was just the most powerful appeal to emotion that either side could come up with for the PR machines.

Slavery was certainly not an issue for much of the southern populace (who suffered greatly because of the economic situation it created), and was basically used to gain support in the north, but do you really believe that only the states with a slave owning elite class joining the rebellion was coincidence?

Of course it wasn't coincidence.  Conflict over slavery was the reason that southern states originally seceded.  That was not, however the reason that there was war.  I think that is all that is being said here.

That makes more sense.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think I can start trusting southerners when they stop referring to The Civil War as The War of Northern Aggression. 

Or how about:

I think I can start trusting southerners when they stop referring to The Civil War

It's been 147 years.  It's over.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yeah. Whats even funnier is that would be rebels think theyd win if theres another one.