jesus cult

[rong]

Hey PD,

I have an all-joking-aside serious matter that I could use some intelligent and unbiased input with.

I find myself in a situation where I'm strongly compelled to intervene on matters that are quite possibly none of my fucking business.

so, here's the story:

my wife's cousin, while in high school started going to this coffee shop called "he brews" (get it?).  at first the family (you should understand that this is a small town where "family" means extended family and not just mom and dad) thought this was cool because she was meeting and hanging out with christian kids instead of the pot head sons and daughters of alcoholics that she went to school with.  and, to her credit, she managed to graduate without getting pregnant.

she then graduated high school (barely) and went to college for, I believe, 1 year before dropping out and getting married and is now pregnant - due in April.  All of this would be great and I'd be really happy for everyone except for the jesus cult part of the story mentioned in the subject.

from what i can gather, there is a church near the coffeeshop run by the calvary ministries which, in it of itself isn't too bad.  they're very much into proselytizing, but pretty much harmless.

to complicate things, there is another group called Tribe of Judah .  I believe the owner of the "he brews" coffee shop is their leader and they all attend the cavalry chapel church.  they live in some sort of hippy compound in tents and stuff.

I didn't really have a problem with any of this, and - in fact have been kind of amused by my wife's family's reaction to being confronted with this extreme sort of christianity.  they were down right mad when they busted ass putting together a nice engagement party (cooking food, setting up tents, etc) only to have the groom's family hold a prayer to thank god for providing everything.  they were like - fuck you - we set this up.  we cooked all this food while you were playing frisbee.

what I do have a problem with is that she is pregnant.  they are living in an ancient, dilapidated house that someone gave them.  they haven't figured out what they are going to do for heat, but since neither one of them have jobs, they will probably try to burn wood.  the husband lost his drivers license (nobody knows why) years ago and is praying for the money he needs to cover his court costs to get it back.  they are praying for a new alternator for their car.  by praying, i mean - that is how they expect to get their car fixed - by praying for it.  also, did i mention she is pregnant and not seeking any sort of prenatal care?  they plan to do a home birth.  they say they have prayed about it and are comfortable with god's plan for them and their unborn child.

i wouldn't give 2 shits about this, and would actually be kind of amused by it all if there wasn't a pregnancy and birth involved.  in my mind, they are needlessly risking 2 lives. 

thoughts?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Calvary Baptists are fucking pricks.  I lived about 2 miles from their original church in Illinois in the 80s, and even for THOSE awful days, they were pretty fucking bad.  They're even worse now.

They are in fact a cult by any definition you care to use...But they are also utterly impervious to reason, and frankly there's not much you can do about it, as they aren't actually breaking any laws or doing anything any judge would or could stop.

My only advice, Rong, is to try not to watch as the fucking ugliness and horror unfold.

[Phox]

Sorry, misanthropy sneaking in. Fuck 'em. If they think their magical Sky Daddy is a competent mechanic and has a spare alternator lying around that he'll let them have, fine. If they think he's going to show up on Tuesday with that space heater he has in his garage, next to the old exercise bike, then fine. If they think he knows a good midwife, more power to 'em. Go for it, folks. It's certainly a good idea, just wait and see.

Phox,
Not in a mood for stupid bullshit today.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Holy shit that sounds like a terrible situation. I mean, people do that kind of thing all the time, but it still sucks to watch.

I think it's completely stupid that they think prayer will solve their problems. I think it's irresponsible that she's not taking advantage of the fact that we live IN THE GODDAMNED TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY and getting prenatal care... although, with no job and no insurance, the only place she probably could would be Planned Parenthood, and I bet they don't have one in your town. Of course, even if they did, I'm sure the Jesus Cult would hate them and so she wouldn't go there.

Now, burning wood for heat is fine if you have a wood stove and understand how to properly use one. That's really not a problem. I've lived in lots of houses that have wood heat only, and if I ever have the money for it, I'll go to wood heat here too. Problem is, I have a feeling Mister Unemployed Jesus Freak has no idea, and probably won't bother to educate himself, either. So, hopefully they won't end up having a chimney fire and burning the whole fucking place down.

I'm not going to judge them too harshly on being unemployed, given the economy. But holy fuck. While I realize that people have been giving birth in shacks and tents and caves for millennia, and shit usually goes pretty smoothly, the overall mindset of these folks seems pretty astonishingly stupid and I pity the kid. Who will hopefully be just fine and grow up strong and healthy.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Sorry, misanthropy sneaking in. Fuck 'em. If they think their magical Sky Daddy is a competent mechanic and has a spare alternator lying around that he'll let them have, fine. If they think he's going to show up on Tuesday with that space heater he has in his garage, next to the old exercise bike, then fine. If they think he knows a good midwife, more power to 'em. Go for it, folks. It's certainly a good idea, just wait and see.

Phox,
Not in a mood for stupid bullshit today.

THEY might deserve it, but the kid doesn't.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Sorry, misanthropy sneaking in. Fuck 'em. If they think their magical Sky Daddy is a competent mechanic

It turns out that God is a GREAT mechanic...But he's constantly being pestered by people who expect a miracle before they even try to do it themselves.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think what irritates me the most is that there are a ton of people living in conditions like that who have no other options. They DO.

[Phox]

BTW. There's an organization called Calvary Campus here at the university. Yes, it is the same people. Yes , they are complete psychopaths.

[Phox]

Sorry, misanthropy sneaking in. Fuck 'em. If they think their magical Sky Daddy is a competent mechanic and has a spare alternator lying around that he'll let them have, fine. If they think he's going to show up on Tuesday with that space heater he has in his garage, next to the old exercise bike, then fine. If they think he knows a good midwife, more power to 'em. Go for it, folks. It's certainly a good idea, just wait and see.

Phox,
Not in a mood for stupid bullshit today.

THEY might deserve it, but the kid doesn't.

Point, but they are immune to all forms of reason. Srsly. You can't fucking talk to these people.

Rong, if you're really concerned, try convincing them to at LEAST find a midwife. A good midwife. They do exist, and it is possible for this sort of thing to go smoothly.

But I am not at all convinced that you will be able to make headway. But of course, I'd love to be proven wrong on this, so do your best to do it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

BTW. There's an organization called Calvary Campus here at the university. Yes, it is the same people. Yes , they are complete psychopaths.

If only I'd known, back in the day...

Anyway, several years back, they opened another church in the town I was at that time living in (Batavia, IL).

The bastards call me at 8AM on Saturday.

Me:  "ggguuhhhhelllo?"

Lem:  "Hello.  This is Lem calling from Calvary Baptist Church.  We just opened in your town, and we were wondering if you'd like to come by for worship tomorrow."

Me:  "Uh, sure.  Where is it?"

Lem:  <gives address>

Me:  "What time is the late service?"

Lem:  "10AM".

Me:  "Great, great.  Can I bring my boyfriend."

Lem:  *click*

Me:  

[Phox]

BTW. There's an organization called Calvary Campus here at the university. Yes, it is the same people. Yes , they are complete psychopaths.

If only I'd known, back in the day...

Anyway, several years back, they opened another church in the town I was at that time living in (Batavia, IL).

The bastards call me at 8AM on Saturday.

Me:  "ggguuhhhhelllo?"

Lem:  "Hello.  This is Lem calling from Calvary Baptist Church.  We just opened in your town, and we were wondering if you'd like to come by for worship tomorrow."

Me:  "Uh, sure.  Where is it?"

Lem:  <gives address>

Me:  "What time is the late service?"

Lem:  "10AM".

Me:  "Great, great.  Can I bring my boyfriend."

Lem:  *click*

Me:  

Yeah, they are incredibly... er, persistent. It makes me very glad that I don't live on campus. Oh yes.

[rong]

thanks for the replies.  i get the feeling the best course of action is no action, but i don't know if i could live with myself if things don't go well.

to complicate things, her dad is an ex fire chief and knows all too well the risks of heating with wood.  i'm pretty sure new-dad-to-be owns no chain saw - or any kind of saw for that matter.  as far as i know, they have no land to cut wood off of and i'm pretty sure they don't have money to buy firewood.  also - it's a little too late in the year to be preparing firewood.  especially for a gigantic, ancient house in the U.P.

to further complicate things - her aunt (my mother in law) is a nurse practitioner and has filled me in on how terrible their chosen midwife's reputation is.  also, I believe they live 40 or 50 miles from the nearest hospital, so if something does go wrong people very well could die from something entirely preventable.  

what makes it extra hard is they're so pathetic that I want to help them, but I don't want to reinforce their idea that they are receiving help because their prayers are being answered.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

thanks for the replies.  i get the feeling the best course of action is no action, but i don't know if i could live with myself if things don't go well.

to complicate things, her dad is an ex fire chief and knows all too well the risks of heating with wood.  i'm pretty sure new-dad-to-be owns no chain saw - or any kind of saw for that matter.  as far as i know, they have no land to cut wood off of and i'm pretty sure they don't have money to buy firewood.  also - it's a little too late in the year to be preparing firewood.  especially for a gigantic, ancient house in the U.P.

to further complicate things - her aunt (my mother in law) is a nurse practitioner and has filled me in on how terrible their chosen midwife's reputation is.  also, I believe they live 40 or 50 miles from the nearest hospital, so if something does go wrong people very well could die from something entirely preventable.  

what makes it extra hard is they're so pathetic that I want to help them, but I don't want to reinforce their idea that they are receiving help because their prayers are being answered.

The UP?  They're doomed.  They're gonna fucking freeze, or wind up under someone else's roof.

And I can pretty much GUARANTEE it won't be someone who goes to their church.  They have odd ideas about charity & Samaritans, etc, when it's nut-cutting time.

[Phox]

what makes it extra hard is they're so pathetic that I want to help them, but I don't want to reinforce their idea that they are receiving help because their prayers are being answered.

That's precisely the issue. They will think God sent you JUST to help them, because they needed it. And not a fucking thing will make them think otherwise.

thanks for the replies.  i get the feeling the best course of action is no action, but i don't know if i could live with myself if things don't go well.

to complicate things, her dad is an ex fire chief and knows all too well the risks of heating with wood.  i'm pretty sure new-dad-to-be owns no chain saw - or any kind of saw for that matter.  as far as i know, they have no land to cut wood off of and i'm pretty sure they don't have money to buy firewood.  also - it's a little too late in the year to be preparing firewood.  especially for a gigantic, ancient house in the U.P.

to further complicate things - her aunt (my mother in law) is a nurse practitioner and has filled me in on how terrible their chosen midwife's reputation is.  also, I believe they live 40 or 50 miles from the nearest hospital, so if something does go wrong people very well could die from something entirely preventable. 

what makes it extra hard is they're so pathetic that I want to help them, but I don't want to reinforce their idea that they are receiving help because their prayers are being answered.

The UP?  They're doomed.  They're gonna fucking freeze, or wind up under someone else's roof.

And I can pretty much GUARANTEE it won't be someone who goes to their church.  They have odd ideas about charity & Samaritans, etc, when it's nut-cutting time.

Yeah, that's just.... fuck.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

what makes it extra hard is they're so pathetic that I want to help them, but I don't want to reinforce their idea that they are receiving help because their prayers are being answered.

There's that parable about the three servants that comes to mind.