Redemption

[navkat]

Okay, I'm getting tired of the selective fucking attitudes about FREE SPEECH around here. What do you want me to say? That I promise not to post anything shocking or offensive anymore? That somewhere between the expressing the actual shit rattling around inside my head and just keeping my mouth shut are a whole lot of options borne of good sense and in better taste and that I'll do my best to find one agreeable to everyone without also offending you by referring to it as "compliant self-censorship?"

I'm annoyed. Y'all are wrong. <---That's about the most honest, non-passive-aggressive way I can say it. I hope we can get past this without it turning into pages of vitriol and arguing. Hunter S Thompson, I am not. David Foster Wallace I am NOT but I have to stand up to this and say no. I will not go out of my way to make it pretty when ugly is how it needs to come out.

I hope this doesn't turn you away or hurt feelings. I have triggers too but I try to get above them. As we all should.

Thank you.

[Faust]

Okay, I'm getting tired of the selective fucking attitudes about FREE SPEECH around here. What do you want me to say? That I promise not to post anything shocking or offensive anymore? That somewhere between the expressing the actual shit rattling around inside my head and just keeping my mouth shut are a whole lot of options borne of good sense and in better taste and that I'll do my best to find one agreeable to everyone without also offending you by referring to it as "compliant self-censorship?"

I'm annoyed. Y'all are wrong. <---That's about the most honest, non-passive-aggressive way I can say it. I hope we can get past this without it turning into pages of vitriol and arguing. Hunter S Thompson, I am not. David Foster Wallace I am NOT but I have to stand up to this and say no. I will not go out of my way to make it pretty when ugly is how it needs to come out.

I hope this doesn't turn you away or hurt feelings. I have triggers too but I try to get above them. As we all should.

Thank you.

You're not getting any selective attitudes on free speech.

You can say whatever awful or shocking thing you want. You are entitled to. You will not be moderated for it.

People will however base further interactions with you on what you have said, and how you chose to involve yourself in discussions, as is their entitlement.

[navkat]

I wasn't addressing censorship from a restricted access point of view but rather, from a social pressure/consequences/guilt stance which is no less real. But I think you knew that.

[Faust]

I wasn't addressing censorship from a restricted access point of view but rather, from a social pressure/consequences/guilt stance which is no less real. But I think you knew that.

You used the phrase Free Speech, so I took it as exactly that. No one is interfering in your freedom of speech so don't make your argument out to be tied up with that. So you thought wrong or you wanted to use a smug phrase (see bold) that implies I was in some way being deceitful.

I don't agree with triggers and think they are stupid, when I joined this site there was no need of them, Of course when I joined this site it also had about four posters.

It merely stands to reason, if you post something vile don't act surprised when people react like people who have read something vile.

[LMNO]

It's that old saying, "You're free to say what you want, and I'm free to say what I want."

Or, from an old PD joke, "Do what you will shall be the whole of the law; just remember, nobody likes an asshole."

You are perfectly capable and allowed to go goreshock in your posts.  And Nigel or Pix is perfectly capable to tell you it makes them uncomfortable. 

To try to force other people to accept your posts without criticism is also a form of social pressure.

Back around 2005 or so, one of my troll personas was a slashfic troll.  I posted some truly horrid stuff, with the intended purpose to gross out other posters.  Then someone politely asked me not to do that, because their 13-year-old kid was on the boards.  So I stopped, and deleted the majority of my posts. 

(That didn't stop me from writing the Harry Potter trollfics that got put up on a fanfic site, though.)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I appreciate it, personally. So, thank you to both of you.

On the original subject, I was thinking that someone who has committed rape could redeem themselves by coming out publicly against raping people. It would be incredibly brave and incredibly dangerous, but that is a type of activist who could actually speak to the men who would commit rape, and educate them, and possibly make a change. I have never, ever seen an activist of that nature.

I'm writing an essay this weekend for  my psych class, about forgiveness and redemption, and how they figure into roles and attitude change, inspired by this thread.

I wonder why that is?

You always see people who did other kinds of crimes doing the talk circuit.

I think there are a lot of reasons why that is. It's icky, our society is prone to lynch mobs, most rapists never really accept that what they did was wrong, violent stranger rape is rare is is usually perpetrated by people who are psychologically incapable of repentance and redemption. It would take a pretty major cultural shift for it to happen.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Okay, I'm getting tired of the selective fucking attitudes about FREE SPEECH around here. What do you want me to say? That I promise not to post anything shocking or offensive anymore? That somewhere between the expressing the actual shit rattling around inside my head and just keeping my mouth shut are a whole lot of options borne of good sense and in better taste and that I'll do my best to find one agreeable to everyone without also offending you by referring to it as "compliant self-censorship?"

I'm annoyed. Y'all are wrong. <---That's about the most honest, non-passive-aggressive way I can say it. I hope we can get past this without it turning into pages of vitriol and arguing. Hunter S Thompson, I am not. David Foster Wallace I am NOT but I have to stand up to this and say no. I will not go out of my way to make it pretty when ugly is how it needs to come out.

I hope this doesn't turn you away or hurt feelings. I have triggers too but I try to get above them. As we all should.

Thank you.

Ya know, you're free to be a socially retarded dick if you want to, and I'm free to stop reading your posts if I want to. Would you rather I do so without a heads-up?

Just so you know, most people DON'T drop gratuitous graphic depictions of grotesque violence into their conversation for no reason, because it's, well, gratuitous and it makes people uncomfortable.

Call it social censoring if you want. Feel oppressed. Go for it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You can feel free to be forever "that chick who's NSFW because she talks about baby rape".

I mean, seriously Navkat, you taking the victim stance because for some reason you don't understand why that's socially unacceptable is kind of pathetic.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And, I can't help but notice that you didn't bother to respond to my post until someone else chimed in to reinforce what I said, which tells me a lot about how much you give a flying fuck about my feelings.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Okay, I'm getting tired of the selective fucking attitudes about FREE SPEECH around here. What do you want me to say? That I promise not to post anything shocking or offensive anymore? That somewhere between the expressing the actual shit rattling around inside my head and just keeping my mouth shut are a whole lot of options borne of good sense and in better taste and that I'll do my best to find one agreeable to everyone without also offending you by referring to it as "compliant self-censorship?"

I'm annoyed. Y'all are wrong. <---That's about the most honest, non-passive-aggressive way I can say it. I hope we can get past this without it turning into pages of vitriol and arguing. Hunter S Thompson, I am not. David Foster Wallace I am NOT but I have to stand up to this and say no. I will not go out of my way to make it pretty when ugly is how it needs to come out.

I hope this doesn't turn you away or hurt feelings. I have triggers too but I try to get above them. As we all should.

Thank you.

BACK THE FUCK UP.

My post was about the fact that if you choose to describe things like that in a graphic manner.

YOU CAN AND AT SOME POINT WILL, IF YOU CARRY ON LIKE THAT, RESURFACE OLD FUCKING TRAUMA.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T SAY WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT, I AM SAYING THE WAY YOU ARE SAYING IT HURTS PEOPLE.

YOUR RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH DOES NOT OVERRIDE SOMEONES FUCKIN' ABILITY TO GET TO SLEEP AT NIGHT WITHOUT OLD AND NASTY MEMORIES OF PAST ABUSE FUCKING WITH THEIR HEADS

IF YOU CANNOT GET THAT YOU ARE A WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

THERE, CLEAR ENOUGH?

Believe me, the first post I made was being nice, asking you to get yo'self better informed, and consider why me and Nigel object to that kind of shit..

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Okay, I'm getting tired of the selective fucking attitudes about FREE SPEECH around here. What do you want me to say? That I promise not to post anything shocking or offensive anymore? That somewhere between the expressing the actual shit rattling around inside my head and just keeping my mouth shut are a whole lot of options borne of good sense and in better taste and that I'll do my best to find one agreeable to everyone without also offending you by referring to it as "compliant self-censorship?"

I'm annoyed. Y'all are wrong. <---That's about the most honest, non-passive-aggressive way I can say it. I hope we can get past this without it turning into pages of vitriol and arguing. Hunter S Thompson, I am not. David Foster Wallace I am NOT but I have to stand up to this and say no. I will not go out of my way to make it pretty when ugly is how it needs to come out.

I hope this doesn't turn you away or hurt feelings. I have triggers too but I try to get above them. As we all should.

Thank you.

Just because YOU have the spoons or whatever to deal with your shit, it doesn't mean everyone does at this point in time.

Hell, I haven't seen Murmur here after the rape culture thread triggered her, and I felt shitty about it at the time and I feel shitty about it now.

Faust may not need triggers, but he can see why others might. (sometimes).

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Okay, I'm getting tired of the selective fucking attitudes about FREE SPEECH around here. What do you want me to say? That I promise not to post anything shocking or offensive anymore? That somewhere between the expressing the actual shit rattling around inside my head and just keeping my mouth shut are a whole lot of options borne of good sense and in better taste and that I'll do my best to find one agreeable to everyone without also offending you by referring to it as "compliant self-censorship?"

I'm annoyed. Y'all are wrong. <---That's about the most honest, non-passive-aggressive way I can say it. I hope we can get past this without it turning into pages of vitriol and arguing. Hunter S Thompson, I am not. David Foster Wallace I am NOT but I have to stand up to this and say no. I will not go out of my way to make it pretty when ugly is how it needs to come out.

I hope this doesn't turn you away or hurt feelings. I have triggers too but I try to get above them. As we all should.

Thank you.

BACK THE FUCK UP.

My post was about the fact that if you choose to describe things like that in a graphic manner.

YOU CAN AND AT SOME POINT WILL, IF YOU CARRY ON LIKE THAT, RESURFACE OLD FUCKING TRAUMA.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU CAN'T SAY WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT, I AM SAYING THE WAY YOU ARE SAYING IT HURTS PEOPLE.

YOUR RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH DOES NOT OVERRIDE SOMEONES FUCKIN' ABILITY TO GET TO SLEEP AT NIGHT WITHOUT OLD AND NASTY MEMORIES OF PAST ABUSE FUCKING WITH THEIR HEADS

IF YOU CANNOT GET THAT YOU ARE A WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT

Biped stuff.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's not even a trigger thing. I mean, it severely squicks me out and I'm sure my past experiences, as well as being a parent, contribute to that, but also, I think that it's also generally a thing that you don't drop graphic, specific, and gratuitous descriptions of grotesque violence into a conversation because it tends to elicit a negative response from most people.

Navkat, if these things are in your head and you can't keep yourself from saying them, get counseling, because you will alienate people by blurting them out inappropriately.

The more you know.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Not that I expect you to respond to this, or to consider my point.

My guess is that you're going to dismiss it as thought-police dogpiling, and ride off in a righteously oppressed huff.