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ITT, Holist demonstrates why his "English" is superior.

Started by Dildo Argentino, October 28, 2012, 10:55:40 AM

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Juana

:lulz: Your attempted psycho-analysis of Roger was hilarious. Honest-to-god hilarious. I'm glad I wasn't actually in class when I read it.
Also, you are indeed one note. It's ALL OF THE BUTTHURT! You are the song of Roger's people. That is it. Whenever you start to play something else (and you do, like your stupid homeopathy nonsense) you immediate devolve into a monophone once confronted.

Also, also, this board has a lot of native English speakers. Surely, if you weren't full of shit, one of us would have heard of your stupid idiom. No one has, not the North Americans nor the Eurospags nor the Upsidedown People. So, uh, I'm pretty sure that's a sign you're full of horse shit.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 05, 2012, 06:44:00 PM
:lulz: Your attempted psycho-analysis of Roger was hilarious. Honest-to-god hilarious. I'm glad I wasn't actually in class when I read it.
Also, you are indeed one note. It's ALL OF THE BUTTHURT! You are the song of Roger's people.

I am their king, and they are my people.   :lulz:

QuoteThat is it. Whenever you start to play something else (and you do, like your stupid homeopathy nonsense) you immediate devolve into a monophone once confronted.

You know, I should probably try to find out what else Nigel and I are responsible for.

Because I'd like to think we did a little more than he listed.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Dildo Argentino

And finally, this:

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 31, 2012, 10:12:19 PM
What the ever loving fuck happened here? I go to the hospital for a few days and this happens AGAIN.

I hope you're better.

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 31, 2012, 10:12:19 PM
Holist: You are quite mistaken in all of your statements. To wit, none of your corrections to Roger's letter are necessary or appropriate in common American English, and rather, come off as overly stiff and formal, just as if you use every single grammatically correct liaison in French while technically correct, marks you as either a non-native speaker, or that you lack social skills.

It seemed to me, from the rest of his letter, that he was aiming for a rather stiff, formal tone. Also, are you saying that the word "gay" is usually written with a capital "G" in America? I actually checked that one, and didn't seem to be the case. Furthermore, do you actually reckon that this sentence: "In fact, you remain untaxed as an example of how you are supposed to be apolitical, ust as the government is not a religious function." is a well-written, easily parsed example of English (even the American variety)? Are you wearing your tinfoil hat?  :lulz: My correction may have been overly formal for your tastes, but it is clearer, easier to read and to understand. And the sort of fella Roger was writing to is unlikely to be very smart. Also, the inference you present is false. Being completely grammatically correct may make you come off stiff and formal, or non-native speaker, or goofster - provided the other characteristics of your writing also bear out those suppositions. Otherwise, you could come off as (i) a skilled, possibly professional writer, (ii) an academic (should be subclass of (i), not always is, in my experience), or (iii) bloody genius (if, in addition to being grammatically spotless, you are also creative, interesting and pointful - intentional use of not frequently used word from the non-native speaker! bring out the stake! - in your writing).

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 31, 2012, 10:12:19 PM
As for "luck of the straw", after scouring the Internet and lists of English idioms, the best I can up with is that you mistook a fairly poor pun on the phrase "luck of the draw" and the act of drawing straws as a phrase in and of itself.

Ah yes. Because my using it as such (a pun on a well-known idiom, which, thanks to "straw" and "luck" also having a fairly strong semanic connection, is perfectly understandable to anyone with a halfway decent grasp of English) - is out of the question, because I am not a native speaker. That's a kind of stereotype I encounter all the time, and it is pretty damn annoying: if a non-native speaker of English makes what looks like a spelling error, or makes non-standard, quirky, off-beat or even personal use of words, he must be doing it because his English is not good enough. Of course, if a native speaker does it, there's a great deal more generosity on the part of the listener: perhaps he is being creative with his lingo. Why is that? I wonder.

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 31, 2012, 10:12:19 PM
It does not, of course, make us believe that you have a superior grasp of the English language when even after following your condescending advice, speaking with several native speakers from various regions and countries, and accessing specialized dialectical lists that you no doubt, as a translator, frequently refer to yourself, there is no supporting evidence for your assertion that you are "right" and the others are "wrong".

I, in good faith, looked carefully and thoroughly through the resources at my disposal and have found that you are either aware of a phrase in English that has long since fallen into disuse, which does not seem likely when considering your previous attempts at communicating your points, or that you yourself have fallen into the very trap you are condemning others for, though they are actually quite competent in communicating in their own language.

I'm in two minds as to whether I should believe that. On balance, my money is on you talking bollocks, but if I am wrong, and you did go to all that trouble, let me give you a piece of advice: I'm not worth it. And kudos from your PD mateys ain't worth it, either. Time could have been better spent.

All I did was google the phrase "luck of the straw". I found that there is (or there used to be) an online game called "Luck of the straw", that other people play an IRL game on "Luck of the Straw Day", and that even the Washington Post had an article about sports with this phrase in the  title (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/01/AR2009090102007.html) - that was enough to decide that the phrase was clearly understandable to English speakers. Which was also demonstrated by the response here: nobody asked what I was on about, but rather, I got corrected to the totally idiomatic "luck of the draw" - which I consider synonymous. Freeky saw yet another opportunity to rub up against Roger's leg, and took it. Had I not been the hated aspie already, had you not known I was not a native speaker, most of you would not have blinked, and someone may have commented (possibly even complimented, for some external reason) on the strange turn of phrase.

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 31, 2012, 10:12:19 PM
If you provide a credible source for this phrase, or admit that you are mistaken, then I will consider continuing to address you as if you are my peer.

Well I don't give a shit as to whether you consider the above sources credible. If I came across as claiming that "luck of the straw" was idiomatic to anywhere near the same extent as "luck of the draw" is, that was not my intention. If the question is whether "luck of the straw" exists as a phrase and, in particular, whether it is completely clearly understandable, I stand by those. As for speaking to me as if I were your peer, you stopped doing that a long time ago, have you not noticed?

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 31, 2012, 10:12:19 PM
Otherwise, I'm afraid, even I, the model of restraint and civility, shall be forced, through no fault of my own, to shun most rigorously any attempt at communication between our two respective parties.

I would be fuckin' shattered, for real.  :lulz:
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

Dildo Argentino

Early tomorrow morning, I'm off for a 105 click bike-ride across the wilderness. Wednesday, I'll look at the fallout.
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: holist on November 05, 2012, 07:16:54 PM
Early tomorrow morning, I'm off for a 105 click bike-ride across the wilderness.

No wonder you keep getting divorced.  Just saying.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Phox

Quote from: holist on November 05, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
Well I don't give a shit as to whether you consider the above sources credible. If I came across as claiming that "luck of the straw" was idiomatic to anywhere near the same extent as "luck of the draw" is, that was not my intention. If the question is whether "luck of the straw" exists as a phrase and, in particular, whether it is completely clearly understandable, I stand by those. As for speaking to me as if I were your peer, you stopped doing that a long time ago, have you not noticed?
Regardless, instead of saying, "No, I didn't mean "luck of the draw", I meant it as a sort of pun, in reference to [insert your choice of whatever you wanted to reference here]" You said "...just google it." You also said that, no native speaker commands the entire lexicon, you seemed to be claiming that you did. However, there seems to be a problem with ALL of your sources. Every instance seems to be a pun. The Washington Post article, is referencing the voting in the "straw poll". The "Luck of the Straw Day" seems to be a localized event akin to a Bingo Night, in which people draw straws to win prizes, the onlyreference that I can find to it is in a possibly fictional short story. The internet game you reference, seems to involve blowing bubbles in a drink through a straw. This means that my thought that you misinterpreted a pun as a turn of phrase is apparently accurate.

The problem with making that pun is that there is no context for it. Even if a native speaker made that very pun the way you did, they would no doubt have received the same treatment.

I find it quite disheartening that you seem to think that everyone is out to get you, regardless of consequence. That is simply not  the case. Your problem is that you seem to not realize that you have seemingly intentionally rubbed people the wrong way. Most of us would love to see you turn it around and becoming an actual contributing member. But if you continue to dig in your heels and screech at people when you are confronted with a mistake, then no one is going to have a positive reaction.

Epimetheus

Holist, your corrections weren't critique. They were essentially running the piece through a spell-check. Maybe you haven't gotten the hang of nuance in this language, but you must know it exists. I wonder if every 20th-century English language novel you've read has margins full of your notes on the grammatical errors the authors made?

Also you seriously need to drop this 'luck of the straw' point. It's not an idiom just because someone has said it at some point. You made a mistake, it's okay.
POST-SINGULARITY POCKET ORGASM TOAD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

Luna

Quote from: chimes on November 05, 2012, 10:27:32 PM
Holist, your corrections weren't critique. They were essentially running the piece through a spell-check. Maybe you haven't gotten the hang of nuance in this language, but you must know it exists. I wonder if every 20th-century English language novel you've read has margins full of your notes on the grammatical errors the authors made?

Also you seriously need to drop this 'luck of the straw' point. It's not an idiom just because someone has said it at some point. You made a mistake, it's okay.

You don't UNDERSTAND, Chimes.  He can't make a mistake.  If he admits to making a mistake, his genitals will implode.
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

deadfong

I think Holist is a real-life incarnation of the woman from the State Farm ad who believes that you can't put anything on the internet if it isn't true.

Anna Mae Bollocks

He's still defending "luck of the straw"?

:spittake:

Every time I come back here he's made an even BIGGER idiot of himself.  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: holist on November 05, 2012, 06:25:45 PM
Then there was the epistle to the Hungarian. I'll do that one bit by bit:

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Holist:

You know, after reading this silliness for some time now, I'd say that the real core "issue" is simply that you're no FUN.  The whole thing is about FUN and you're neither generating nor really having any, it seems, unless you're creaming your jeans because you are a masochist. 

Actually, I am having tremendous amounts of fun. Most of it not here, but some of it here. And I think the reason you are still talking to me, instead of keeping your promises and not bothering, is the nagging suspicion that I may be right when I say this: I have a great deal more fun than you do, which is why I have very clearly less time for this mediocre board largely populated by full-time or at least part-time clueless egoists than you do.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Like former members Number 6 and Dead Kennedy, you play one note VERY LOUDLY and then play it some more, as if persisting in playing it will make it more palateable, generate any tangible status for you or yield you any friends, digital or in-person.  What do you expect from such behavior?  Not that I personally give a shit, but I am idly curious.

You are being so daft it's really funny. (That's one thing I gain.) Homeopathy. Origin of music. Origin of consciousness. My music. My art. My recent brush with death. One note, ha? Like fuck it is one note. The thing is, you need stupid in order to feel clever, and the moment you think you've heard that sweet tone, you stop listening to anything else. I know you've seen all of it, but you chose not to respond. Because it was threatening your precious dose of stupid.

Mostly though, I'm not playing to win, I'm playing to play. I have plenty of friends already, real and digital. As for the last sentence of that bit ('Not that I personally give a shit, but I am idly curious") - why don't you enter that one in a blatant lie competition?

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
The Church is a large and quirky group, but the overwhelming aspect of it is and has BEEN that it's fun.  Even some of the notorious cranks of old showed variety and weaved their own amusing threads into the happysock that we call PD.  Why, ECH himself is a shelled crab with an IQ of 400 and a DQ (Disgust Quotient) of EIGHT hundred and even a notorious pervert such as he is a valued - if more often dead than alive - member of this board.

Actually, looking at the traffic, it's not that large. The usual ten percent (who generate most of the content) is not much more than 20 people. There are more occasional speakers, for sure, and definitely there is a largely silent corps. The half-hearted joke about ECH is lame.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
You, however, have had precisely nothing to say. 

I had and still have a great deal to say. I have, however, repeatedly sinned against the dogma (there is always dogma), so whatever I say (freaky accident, pictures I'm told are pretty good, music I know is pretty good, especially in comparison to some of the dross that gets praised here, and that's not even a complete list) is per definitionem uninteresing. Which is a pity, but not much of a pity. I initially overestimated it. It's a pity like stepping in dogshit is a pity.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Where were you about 10 years ago when we started this abomination?

10 years ago? I was a year after moving house in order to be near the single decent school I could find that I could also afford in this godforsaken country, getting the new house organised, building a fence (there wasn't one), building furniture, looking after four little boys (they are much bigger by now), getting stoned far too much, earning money translating, hence working from home and being with my family all the time, which has many ups and a few downs, also 4 years into starting and running a virtual community for likeminded people who value freedom, autonomy and freak over comfort, lack of responsibility and keeping up with the Joneses. It was a closed e-mail list with a slowly fluctuating membership of 20-25 families (all of whom, however, were active, serious contributors), a web presence requesting a detailed introduction and statement of intent in return for being considered for membership. This thing became an IRL community with big meet-ups twice or three-times a year. Then some of the senior members (including me) divorced acrimoniously, and the list couldn't take the strain, dropped dead. Though after a break of 6 years or so, I am thinking of trying to kick-start it again. Unfortunately, no-one told me that PD was happening. Had I heard about it, I would have dropped in. May even have liked you better, you were probably less bitter.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Where were you in 2006, when the fun really started?

In 2006? Still the same place, doing much the same thing, getting ready for the divorce a year later, the most godawful time of my life. I was a bit of a sloth then. I am no longer. I wonder if I would have found the thing you say started then fun.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Never mind that, really...There are plenty of members here that joined very recently and manage to contribute.  So where are the podcasts of your rants?

I have six kids living in my house. I think I said so, straight away. Can you fucken imagine what that is like? The oldest is 17, turning into a bit of a pothead and as yet unable to make up his mind about what to do with his life. There's a 15-year-old introverted genius, I am in the process of organising on-line Blender sessions for him, cause he's talented that way and he's outgrown minecraft (in which he's built large proto-turing-machines) or stick-figure animation (though his stuff is funny). And the list goes on... the youngest is 2 and 3 months (her image even made your resolve waver, for a bit). On Mondays and Wednesdays, when her mum is at her part-time job being a child psychologist who does dynamic sensory integration therapy (basically, teaching children who have been denied it by incompetent parents the joys of physical play), I'm with her all day. I was today. I tend to do the cooking for this family, and most of the shopping (she does washing and clearing up, mostly). I need to be on top of a car insurance claim involving a foreign car causing the accident, keep 7 bicycles in decent enough nick as they are our only means of machine-assisted locomotion now.

And despite all of that, in the last two months I have started non-verbal analytically oriented art therapy, which is working great, tripped twice (breaking my usual rule of usually once a year, the theurapy maade me dooit!), fantastic on both occasions, got me a decent oldish camera and started taking and editing many pictures (but no response to the first one, which I also posted here), joined a band which previously consisted of three madly talented 11-year-old boys, as bass-player and producer (first videos will be posted shortly), am about to join an improvisational theatre company as a musician, and I am taking up boxing, because it's weird that despite being a pretty outspoken and critical person, I have somehow never been in physical conflict for real.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Do you engage in recognizable group conversations with any of us? 

I did try to, but you and Nigel keep fucking preventing it by inserting many moronically boring, insulting comments in there that speak volumes about your cluelessness while they disrupt the thread. Last time was the "not everyone is beautiful" subject. There, again, you completely missed the point and decided to get your fix of imaginary stupid. By now, I've sort of given up, though there is that thread by the Ayotollah... I am considering my next response.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Have you done anything but get into some downward-spiralling pissing contest that you'll philosophically (and in practical terms) lose, even if you "win?"
Yes, I have. I doubt that you are capable of actually going back and checking and noticing it, though.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
What can you possibly do with such a "victory", Anyway? 

Fucked if I know, never wanted one, either. What do you do with them?

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
If you don't want to have some laughs or be welcome at the party, why are you even bothering?

I did want to have some laughs. And I did want to be welcome at the party. But not at the cost of conforming to shit I don't feel comfy with, or shutting up when I feel like speaking. This has not been possible. Largely on account of your good self and a few others, whom you don't need to control with mind-lazors, as they are perfectly capable of finding their own father-figure with just a few clues of the right sort.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Seriously, Holist, you're an asshole.

Seriously, Roger, you are an asshole. A pitiful little rooster ever so proud and frightfully jealous of his pitiful little dunghill that he pitifully imagines to be a royal castle of weird.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
You DON'T have fun, because you don't even know what fun IS

You poor deluded shitebag. You know what? I forgive you. You know not what you are on about.  :lulz:

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
And this garbage here, this non-stop abortion that has formed around you on PD...

I don't know if you've noticed, but it's not actually non-stop. I take long breaks out, because I have a life. You, of course, are here practically every one of your wretched evenings...

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
That's the rest of your life, on display right in front of your eyes.  I am sure your abject failure to have fun in England is just like your failure to get along here...

You are so sure so often. It's a sign of being delusional, you know. I got depressed in England, true, but I still had fun (played a gig for 2000 people and four smaller gigs for up to a hundred, with 3 different bands, for instance, and met some pretty good British, Central-American and Hungarian musicians in the process). As to why I got depressed, I have now come to the conclusion that it was essentially 4 things: 1, it took a manic burst to move such a huge family to England, and in that manic burst, I underestimated the difficulty of the job waiting for me there. Once I got there, and realised that I would not be all good and settled with new friends in 6 months, as even with the best of luck that would take more like 2 or 3 years, it was hard to take. 2: I started getting state benefits. I had thought I'd have no problems with that, but in the event it turned out that I felt like a hypocrit: how can you maintain being an anti-state, anti-machine anomalous maverick if half your income comes from social benefits? So there was that, and we couldn't have stayed alive otherwise, 3: two of the kids really hated it, my youngest son decided to come home to mummy in April, and another, though she stayed until the end of the school year, refused to even consider not moving back to Hungary; 4: I had to realise that the interwebs between the two places are not mature enough to allow me to keep in touch with my friends the way I had thought I could. All of those things first got me very depressed (before I figured them out), then got me moving back to here.

Your supposition is unfair, unfounded, and tells me only one thing: you are an excessively self-assured douchebag.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
Someone else's fault, right?

Which one, you equivocating shit-for-brains? The failure to move to England was up to me. I don't consider it a fault because it put Hungary in perspective for me: I like it much better than I did before, and this is likely to last until I figure out a better place to go (if things really get bad here). Misjudged my jump, fell on my face, got up, nothing broken, try again. For a better example of an "abject failure", take a look at your own life.

Quote from: Reverend Roadkill on October 31, 2012, 07:44:45 PM
It sure as hell isn't YOUR inability to communicate on even a basic level, is it?  Of course it's not.  Keep telling yourself that, as you bounce from one abject failure to another.  That will make everything better.

Curses are like boomerangs, nobody told you that? There you go. I'll let you have that one for free.

Holist raises the bar for tl;dr ITT.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Internet Jesus

HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS!

Aucoq

I'm (admittedly) a bit naive/optimistic so I thought for a while that Holist was maybe, just maybe, trolling us.  (After all, how could someone seriously try to defend "luck of the straw?")  And then he threw the wall of butthurt at us.  :lulz:
"All of the world's leading theologists agree only on the notion that God hates no-fault insurance."

Horrid and Sticky Llama Wrangler of Last Week's Forbidden Desire.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: CAKE on October 30, 2012, 06:47:10 AM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on October 30, 2012, 06:43:34 AM
Im a little confused as to what qualifies someone who admits that they dont speak english very well to assess the ability of a native english speaker to communicate properly in english? Unless holist somehow thinks that american english is inferior as a dialect?

Nothing. And even if he thinks American English is an inferior dialect, that has no bearing on the ability of American English speakers to communicate with other American English speakers. He is just intent on making himself look ever more like an ass.

I suspect that Holist either has a huge crush on me and is just trying to please me, or else he's a bot.

Kind of leaning toward bot, but really could still go either way.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Anna Mae Bollocks

Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division