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Benghazi attacks definitely don't pass the smell test

Started by Cain, May 09, 2013, 02:22:23 PM

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Cain


Junkenstein

QuoteSo why did the attack happen?

Two guesses:

Occam's razor: General anti-US sentiment was triggered somehow and things spiralled. Once things started going on, some saw it as a potential screen for things so seized opportunities.

Paranoid ravings: The US did it. Because infowars.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Cain on September 10, 2013, 01:41:44 PM
Here's what I don't get.

It looks like the CIA was carrying out a covert operation in Benghazi, and that operation was supplying arms to Syrian rebels.  This theory coheres well with the existing evidence, that the CIA were up to something very secretive, why their Libyan staff were being polygraphed and targeted for security checks so often, and that the State Department were operating a "weapon decommissioning" program in Benghazi at the time.  Benghazi is also home to many militants who fought in Iraq, and thus likely has strong ties to al-Nusra, which is made up of former Iraqi and Syrian jihadists.

That I get.  That all makes sense.

But why would a militant Islamic outfit then attack the consulate?  If anything, it would be in their interest to help.  One could claim ignorance...but given the amount of surveillance that was apparently on the place, and the amount of planning that went into the attack, not to mention the constant chatter among Islamist groups in the region, I find it hard to believe that they were unaware of this.

So why did the attack happen?

Attackers were backed by Assad?  If I were Obama, I'd be trying to make that connection.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
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Junkenstein

Iran would make more sense than Assad. Keep pushing them as the ultimate problem that we're slowly working our way towards dealing with.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Cain


The Good Reverend Roger

So maybe this was a "loose ends" thing.

Explains the paperwork going missing. 

Maybe the ambassador found out something he wasn't supposed to find out?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain


Junkenstein

Hypothetically, would Ambassadors make good or bad hostages? I'm pretty sure that it's unlikely to ever arise, but I can see some benefits in that regard. Obvious problems too though. Abduction attempt gone wrong?
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Cain


Junkenstein

Probably in paranoid territory, but fire and explosions are pretty handy at covering up other physical evidence. I assume CIA protocols would state something like "If attacked - Burn everything". So the intention was probably not to gain intelligence unless of the human variety?

A political statement perhaps? Destroying an embassy is quite a show of force. No overt credit appears to have been taken though so that feels wrong.



Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

tarod

Maybe a third party wanted something? Is good old fashioned greed possible?

Cain

Bump.

This may explain a few things:

QuoteU.S. officials suspect that a former Guantanamo Bay detainee played a role in the attack on the American diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, and are planning to designate the group he leads as a foreign terrorist organization, according to officials familiar with the plans.

Militiamen under the command of Abu Sufian bin Qumu, the leader of Ansar al-Sharia in the Libyan city of Darnah, participated in the attack that killed U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans, U.S. officials said.

So why was Qumu released, while others languished in Camp X-Ray despite the US government knowing they had no involvement in terrorist activity?

Well, there was this suspected program:

QuoteDIA's Ed Mornston says names of ex-#Guantanamo captives who "re-engaged" after release are secret "to protect sources and methods."

QuoteShe says that the Americans have recruited the prisoners to function as spies -- first against other prisoners, later out in the field. This would explain the reported cases of "recidivism."

Sources and methods?  Well, that means they're protecting sources of intel.  Strongly suggesting they turned people while in Guantanamo and released them to re-infiltrate Al-Qaeda affiliates and report back to the US intelligence community.  If such a program does exist, it likely started in 2007, which is the year Qumu was released into Libyan custody (the Libyans released him in 2008).

According to government documents obtained by the NYT, Qumu has no travel restrictions, and has a "non-specific personality disorder".

And Qumu has quite the record, too.  Murder, armed assault, drug trafficking...and that was before he met up with Bin Laden.  Given the longstanding aminosity between Gaddafi and Bin Laden, it does seem odd that he would release such a man, let alone give him the freedom to head up his own militia (lets recall, other Islamic militants died in mysterious circumstances in Libyan jails, as late as 2009).  But since 2003, Libya has been trying to play nice with the West and cooperate in the War on Terror.

So, hypothetically speaking, if Qumu were released because of his use as an intelligence asset, it would make sense that the US would lean on Gaddafi to leave him alone.

And if Qumu were an American asset, it might explain why the CIA reluctance to tell anyone what they were doing in Benghazi, and why whatever it was that they were doing was considered so secretive that they required near-constant polygraphing.  And it may explain why the White House initially denied he was behind the attack - whether from complicity with the CIA or because the CIA sold them a line of bullshit.

Of course, it doesn't entirely explain the events of the day, why Qumu apparently decided to break ranks with US intelligence and target his likely handlers...but it's a start.

Note: I am indebted to Joseph Cannon for the above post's information.  If you want someone who can talk sensibly about covert action, parapolitics and similar, I highly recommend his site.

Junkenstein

Very interesting.

It helps highlight the real purpose behind Gitmo and similar ilk too. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a large degree of Gitmo's training is focused on turning enemy combatants into compliant assets. There's already a wide range of living accommodation depending on how much you collaborate with your captors. I'd suggest it's possible that Qumu managed to keep up this pretence while getting into the position to do the most possible damage. 

Are there any "non-specific personality disorders" that might get you through a polygraph test easier?

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Cain

I don't believe it was the original intention of Guantanamo which - like so much else of Bush II's first term - was an ad hoc arrangement ordered from the White House without thinking through the consequences.  But it's definitely the sort of place which could easily be turned to that end.

Well, the thing about a nonspecific personality disorder is that it's non-specific.  Meaning, a polygrapher cannot adjust for it, yet it taints all testimony due to implied mental instability (which may or may not in fact be the case).  And the conditions of Guantanamo could easily bring about the symptoms of psychological disorders which may (or may not) subside with the right treatment and removal from Camp X-Ray.

Junkenstein

I was thinking that if you didn't have some kind of personality disorder before CIA care and attention, you almost certainly will at the end of it.

Cannon seems to have some pretty good articles, thanks for that too.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.