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Endorsement:  I know that all of you fucking discordians are just a bunch of haters who seem to do anything you can to distance yourself from fucking anarchists which is just fine and dandy sit in your house on your computer and type inane shite all day until your fingers fall off.

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Turtles all the way down

Started by Ishkur, April 13, 2012, 07:05:43 PM

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Cain

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:46:28 PM
What happened to the other billion?

You have to be at least this high -------------> to play zero-sum games.

That or I forgot about them.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: navkat on April 13, 2012, 08:47:09 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:40:36 PM
Also, I wouldn't worry too much, Navvie.  Your friend just has a case of "-ism".  Remember when you got here?  It was all about LibertarianISM.  Now Ishkur has a case of biological determinISM.

There's a cure for that, as you may recall.  Each and every one of us had to go through that cure.

It's just part of The Process™.

Oh yeah...The Process™. I liked the funny sausage-looking stuff that came out the other side of The Process™. Didn't we like, fry it up and feed it to those screeching rat-looking creatures at one point? Or  :?

No, the OTHER Process™.  I had to be cured of accepting truisms, Cain had to be cured of dragging the filth down the street just for cheap kicks, and ECH had to be cured of the clap.

It's just the way things go, here.
Molon Lube

Cain

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on April 13, 2012, 08:45:07 PM
I'm disappointed that there were no turtles in the story.  :sad:

I like turtles.

That was meant to be an obscure Feynmann story reference, used to establish Ishkur's cred.

And I like turtles, too...But they give me gas.

None of you like turtles as much as Jonathan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Cain on April 13, 2012, 08:48:47 PM
You have to be at least this high -------------> to play zero-sum games.

:potd:

Now I have to get more coffee.  :lol:
Molon Lube

navkat

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on April 13, 2012, 08:45:07 PM
I'm disappointed that there were no turtles in the story.  :sad:

I like turtles.

That was meant to be an obscure Feynmann story reference, used to establish Ishkur's cred.

And I like turtles, too...But they give me gas.

That's because you're eating them wrong, Dok. They go in the other hole...no, the other, other hole. THINK, Dok. You're a scientist...Wherrrre do the turtles go, Dok?

Doktor Howl

Quote from: navkat on April 13, 2012, 08:58:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on April 13, 2012, 08:45:07 PM
I'm disappointed that there were no turtles in the story.  :sad:

I like turtles.

That was meant to be an obscure Feynmann story reference, used to establish Ishkur's cred.

And I like turtles, too...But they give me gas.

That's because you're eating them wrong, Dok. They go in the other hole...no, the other, other hole. THINK, Dok. You're a scientist...Wherrrre do the turtles go, Dok?

WHERE EVER I WANT THEM TO GO.

IT'S MY ORIFICE, AND I CAN RESTRUCTURE IT ANY WAY I WANNA.
Molon Lube

Bruno

Quote from: Cain on April 13, 2012, 08:49:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:47:27 PM
Quote from: Emo Howard on April 13, 2012, 08:45:07 PM
I'm disappointed that there were no turtles in the story.  :sad:

I like turtles.

That was meant to be an obscure Feynmann story reference, used to establish Ishkur's cred.

And I like turtles, too...But they give me gas.

None of you like turtles as much as Jonathan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

It's turtle references all the way down!
Formerly something else...

navkat


Doktor Howl

Molon Lube

Ishkur

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:40:36 PM
Your friend just has a case of "-ism".

Isms are bad. You should never follow an Ism to its complete extent. Almost everything can be tamed with exceptions and exclusions, consensus and compromise, temperance and tolerance, and to completely devote yourself to a single-minded brand of blind faith is, well, blind.

Whenever you have a blind faith belief in something – it doesn't matter what that something is – you open the door for atrocities to occur. Anyone can be brought to the bidding of their superiors, or be compelled to commit any heinous or unspeakable act, for the sake of strict adherence to a format of social control.

There is a commonality of blind faith in all the extremisms of past ages, from fundamentalist theocracies to military dictatorships, from the totalitarian nation-states of the twentieth century to the Inquisitions of medieval Europe. The holder of a blind faith is static in a constantly changing Universe. It is not what they believe in that's so dangerous – the exact particulars of the belief are quite irrelevant – but to the extent that they will defend their beliefs. This is true of zealots from every facet of civilization, from politics to religion, law, war, culture, race and industry. It is also true for value systems that people show unwavering fealty toward, from holy books to Constitutions.

Everything comes down to a fundamental assumption of faith. But it's how faith is upheld that matters. If you believe in something absolutely from a position of blind faith then you will defend it absolutely from a position of blind faith. There is no room for interpretation: It is 100% true, absolute, and beyond question. You will seek out and destroy its opponents as they are threats to its wisdom and self-evident superiority. You are capable of dying for it and you are capable of killing for it. You are capable of being told to kill for it, and you accept conquest or annihilation as the only logical courses of action. There is no middle ground.

If we wish to live in an ethical world where atrocities do not occur, then we must reject blind faith and accept critical evaluation (but don't do this blindly, of course). The reason for this is quite simple: If you recognize the possibility that your basic assumptions might not be absolutely correct, then you will be much more tolerant of someone who disagrees with your assumptions. Moreover, you will not perceive their opposition as a threat to yours. You will disagree, but you will not die, and you will not kill for your convictions. The door to a better world lies down this path.

So beware anyone who tries to get you to accept something completely and totally on an absolute principle of blind faith, for they think themselves masters of your soul. If you're going to be swept up that easily by a new cult, populist movement or political rally, you might as well join the army and get it over with.

navkat

Here, we beat the shit out of each other with day-old baguettes if it even seems like an ism is manifesting. It doesn't hurt as much as say, a baseball bat but it stings and it's oddly demoralizing.

*BAP!*

"What the fuck was THAT for?!?"

"An ism landed on your FAYCE."

Welcome aboard! And do check out that pool.

or  :?

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I like this new one because it's making an effort, but not trying too hard.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Doktor Howl

Quote from: Ishkur on April 13, 2012, 11:40:40 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 13, 2012, 08:40:36 PM
Your friend just has a case of "-ism".

Isms are bad. You should never follow an Ism to its complete extent. Almost everything can be tamed with exceptions and exclusions, consensus and compromise, temperance and tolerance, and to completely devote yourself to a single-minded brand of blind faith is, well, blind.

Whenever you have a blind faith belief in something – it doesn't matter what that something is – you open the door for atrocities to occur. Anyone can be brought to the bidding of their superiors, or be compelled to commit any heinous or unspeakable act, for the sake of strict adherence to a format of social control.


THIS.

The only thing I have complete faith in is my own omnifallibility.  I could fuck up a wet dream.  There is nothing so simple that I cannot run it 80 yards toward the wrong end zone.

This gives me a certain amount of latitude that perfectionists and True Believers (in whatever) do not enjoy.  Like the man said, "Drop your pants and roll in your mistakes."
Molon Lube

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Everybody fucks up and is wrong. Not just sometimes, but ALL the fucking time. The very best thing you can do for yourself is admit it as quickly and graciously as possible. People tend to forget your fuckups right away when you do that.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Kai

I for one really appreciated the OP. Biological metaphors, especially ones grounded in insect behavior (you had me at Sphecidae) are so attractive to me.

At least, up until the final paragraph. Discord (I know, I know, chord /is/ a word, but discord is spelled without an 'h') is something that happens with humans, because while our minds may be largely ordered genetic programing, we do not all have the same programming. Also, minds programmed for hierarchies, which, unless there is a perfect numerical lock in between people and niches, will ALWAYS come into conflict at some level.

There's good reason to believe that social games are what selected for the human mind. Humans, the perfect embodiment of order and disorder, thus chaos.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish