Explaining the BIP to normal people

[LHX]

the ability to amuse oneself is a rarity - but it is an ability that everybody around these boards seems to have

that being said - its hard to be gung-ho about passionately trying to communicate with unappreciative people who are liable to snake you at the earliest opportunity

in other words - balance 'fuck 'em if they cant take a joke' with feelings of responsibility and purpose to supporting those around you

[P3nT4gR4m]

So Silly, you seem to be saying that when you say "imagination is boundless" your aim is to examine and deconstruct/reconstruct the psychological filters your brain uses to interpret what it sees?  That's cool.

But you have to realize where the imagination and the physical overlap.  You can imagine yourself to be able to breathe underwater, but if you try it, you'll drown.

Exactly what I meant when I said :

The physical world has limits. The world of consciousness, however, is boundless. Important distinction which you quite rightly make LMNO.

[P3nT4gR4m]

the ability to amuse oneself is a rarity - but it is an ability that everybody around these boards seems to have

that being said - its hard to be gung-ho about passionately trying to communicate with unappreciative people who are liable to snake you at the earliest opportunity

in other words - balance 'fuck 'em if they cant take a joke' with feelings of responsibility and purpose to supporting those around you

The charm is to make the joke funny to them. I got workmates who think I'm a hoot. I can usually make people laugh at the drop of a hat and it's how I like to interact, especially with sleepwalkers. Laughter is an opportunity for enlightenment to sneak in under the wire. The more they're laughing the more opportunity this fluke has to happen.

[AFK]

the ability to amuse oneself is a rarity - but it is an ability that everybody around these boards seems to have

that being said - its hard to be gung-ho about passionately trying to communicate with unappreciative people who are liable to snake you at the earliest opportunity

in other words - balance 'fuck 'em if they cant take a joke' with feelings of responsibility and purpose to supporting those around you

I have to admit I've been in the "fuck 'em" category lately.  
But, I know from my own experience there are folks out there who would get this, and perhaps, be comforted by these ideas.  
It's tough to be awash in the sea of humanity.  

To know there are others who understand on some level.
I think that is the one of the most powerful things we have to offer.    

[AFK]

the ability to amuse oneself is a rarity - but it is an ability that everybody around these boards seems to have

that being said - its hard to be gung-ho about passionately trying to communicate with unappreciative people who are liable to snake you at the earliest opportunity

in other words - balance 'fuck 'em if they cant take a joke' with feelings of responsibility and purpose to supporting those around you

The charm is to make the joke funny to them. I got workmates who think I'm a hoot. I can usually make people laugh at the drop of a hat and it's how I like to interact, especially with sleepwalkers. Laughter is an opportunity for enlightenment to sneak in under the wire. The more they're laughing the more opportunity this fluke has to happen.

So perhaps Lollercaust should be your gig. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

To know there are others who understand on some level.
I think that is the one of the most powerful things we have to offer.   

As soon as I'd finished reading the PD I immediately thought to myself "Holy fuck! If there's one other person in the world who actually 'gets' this I totally want to meet them!

Half a dozen mouse and keyboard clicks later and I'm here, watching dozens of the fuckers. Imagine the grin on my face.

[LHX]

i posted something at EBG a couple months ago that i cant find right now

the theme was that due to these advanced communication devices we have (internet / forums), people are finding mechanisms of support that were not available in the past


it was a thinly veiled reference to the fact that if i didnt find reinforcement and a outlet to discuss these ideas and philosophies (which are as of yet still not in abundance in the offline world) then i wouldve been finished a few years back

done
finished

a new guy in the wrong hood


so in short - yes - theres people that could really use this shit but dont even know it exists

[Cramulus]

going back the the op, since I came in a few pages late...

I think one of the things we've all mentioned is that the metaphor of reality as a prison is a bit too bleak to be palatable. This is basic memetics - people don't want to buy into an ideology that's more emotionally costly than their previous one (see also: melioration principle). There's no reward in the extended BIP metaphor, you just escape into a different cell.

This is why the more I chew on it the more I've been likening it to a Dream Within a Dream metaphor. A dream is a reality that, if we're lucid, we can control. It's also not as damning, although some people live in self-created nightmares.

You get to choose whether its a bad dream or a good dream. Even people in Real Life Prison (the kind with physical bars and cells) have a good day once in a while. They just have to learn to tune into the things that make them happy instead of the things that piss them off.

it's your choice what kind of dream this is. Ultimately, people who are bitter have chosen to be bitter. The point of lucidity is to realize that you can choose.

In the BIP metaphor, you're trapped
In the dream metaphor, you're just going with the flow, until you realize what's going on, and then you can "wake up" and change the dream you're having



more on this later

[LMNO]

Ok, would someone please explain to me how recognizing certain limitations is a bad thing?


Fuck, if one desires to act in an effective manner, knowing what is and isn't currently possible, and how your brain reacts in certain situations would be desirable, no?

[Cramulus]

It's not bad.

I just don't want to be in prison.

[P3nT4gR4m]

[edit] LMNO this kinda fits your post too if you take it that readers might already know the -recognising limitations - part

I fucking love where you're going with this Cram.

"Dream" is a bit fluffy for me but the context is bang on the money.

I read PD then came here. If I'd read BIP first I may have made a judgement call not to bother. The reason for this - PD made fun of the situation whereas BIP seemed a bit pissed off at it. I think the 'prison' theme was mainly to blame for the impression I took. From my point of view it was a kinda "Don't these dudes get the joke?" thing. There were a few really good gags in there but it was an awful lot of text to go through, telling me stuff I already knew, in order to find them.

Perhaps the BIP is stuck kinda halfway between preaching to the choir and trying to wake up the sleepers. That agenda seems to be getting addressed now so when a consensus is finally reached we might be in a better position to produce the sequel.

[LMNO]

It's not bad.

I just don't want to be in prison.

Tough shit.


But if it will make you all feel warm and snuggly inside your cells, I guess I can try to write something a little more, y'know, happy.

[AFK]

going back the the op, since I came in a few pages late...

I think one of the things we've all mentioned is that the metaphor of reality as a prison is a bit too bleak to be palatable. This is basic memetics - people don't want to buy into an ideology that's more emotionally costly than their previous one (see also: melioration principle). There's no reward in the extended BIP metaphor, you just escape into a different cell.

I think you should change "all" to "some" or "most", because I for one, would not fit into that category.  I argue that there is rewards in the BIP metaphor.  To have a better understanding of your surroundings, to me, is a huge reward.  To understand there are other paths, hallways, whatever, in the prison is a reward.  To realize you don't have to follow someone else's map because you have the ability to forge your own direction, is a reward.  

This is why the more I chew on it the more I've been likening it to a Dream Within a Dream metaphor. A dream is a reality that, if we're lucid, we can control. It's also not as damning, although some people live in self-created nightmares.

You get to choose whether its a bad dream or a good dream. Even people in Real Life Prison (the kind with physical bars and cells) have a good day once in a while. They just have to learn to tune into the things that make them happy instead of the things that piss them off.

it's your choice what kind of dream this is. Ultimately, people who are bitter have chosen to be bitter. The point of lucidity is to realize that you can choose.

I'd be interested in seeing if you flesh this out any more.  I'm not sure I agree with it but I have to think about it more.  

In the BIP metaphor, you're trapped
In the dream metaphor, you're just going with the flow, until you realize what's going on, and then you can "wake up" and change the dream you're having

more on this later

Again, from my perspective, I say you aren't trapped.  Refer to my post a few posts ago.  "The limits are not limits, thus, the prison is not a prison."
And again, I'm not sure about this Dream metaphor.  You can wake up from a dream and then it stops, but how do you change the dream?  

[LMNO]

Another think, Prof:


Try to see the infrared spectrum.  Go ahead, wake up from that dream.

[Cramulus]

Why do you believe in [whatever you believe in] and not, say, the Insane Clown Posse "Dark Carnival" metaphor for reality? I'll venture because it's silly and not palatable to you.

Those are the kinds of issues we're addressing here. The most common critique of the BIP is not about any of the ideas in it, it's about its packaging. In the current scheme, the person who "gets it" is the person who realizes how imprisoned they are. Freedom comes from knowing how fucked you are. Going back to an old argument, I just don't see why I would want to buy into that.