http://www.9and10news.com/Category/Story/?id=272618&cID=3
government finds out you have a daytripper fantasy. sends in someone to encourage & finance it. busts you.
BAM!
newsworthy terror plot to use for future social reform.
DEAR ATF/ HOMELAND SECURITY,
perhaps you're getting a bit too transparent, even for the general public.
Oh, I'm sure we're going to hear a lot of these highly publicized "terror attempts" in the coming year. Proof positive that Big Brother is protecting us! Right?
It is now a crime to behave like a pawn. You have to admit, it has a kind of warped poetry to it.
This sounds more like entrapment than a sting. Anybody find more details on this yet?
Quote from: Sigmatic on November 27, 2010, 07:58:51 PM
It is now a crime to behave like a pawn. You have to admit, it has a kind of warped poetry to it.
Thats the fairest rule I've ever seen.
More details. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/27/mohamed-osman-mohamud-portland-car-bomb_n_788695.html
If he was really seeking out violence there's no reason to assume entrapment, and I retract my above statement.
No reason to assume entrapment, other than that the government created a totally fake "ring of jihadists" who evidently groomed him for this incident. That he was interested in the first place indicates that he wasn't mentally stable to begin with. They could as easily have prevented this incident by getting him help, but that wouldn't create a reason to justify increased "security" measures against the domestic populace.
I anticipate that a lot of unstable young people are being similarly groomed, and we will see an unprecedented rash of "domestic terrorism" by brown people with funny names.
The People demanded fear, the government is supplying it.
I fail to see the problem, here.
Also, according to US law, the FBI have to prove that the accused "was indepdently predisposed to commit the crime for which he is arrested" and, to that end, the agents involved must stress that the accused has other options before inducing them into the crime.
Turns out the conversation where that supposedly happened "could not be recorded for technical reasons" and was not presented by the FBI. Also turns out they were tapping his phones for little good reason and that they placed him on a no fly list, which cost him a job in Alaska, before turning up with gifts of money.
That before the FBI approached him he had no radical background, had made no threats, had no criminal record, no contact with terrorists, had undergone no training - all that highly suggests this is another of the infamous "FBI makes up a terror plot, gives a poor sap a bomb, foils the plot and looks like heroes" happenings, which have been going on since the first Bush administration and are, arguably, the civilian end of the P2OG operations (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Proactive_Preemptive_Operations_Group) started under Rumsfeld.
You know, I'm struggling to think of a terrorist plot in the mainland USA in the past decade by Islamist groups or individuals where the FBI wasn't critically involved in the planning and bomb-making parts, 9/11 aside. There are a couple, but for the most part, the FBI are causing more terror than they're stopping (because, as we all know, the media's response to even failed terrorist attacks now is to ramp the fear of angry brown people up to 11).
Meanwhile, the mosque he had previously attended was actually firebombed by God-fearing Americans.
:amurrica:
Quote from: Shashaojian on November 28, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
Also, according to US law, the FBI have to prove that the accused "was indepdently predisposed to commit the crime for which he is arrested" and, to that end, the agents involved must stress that the accused has other options before inducing them into the crime.
Turns out the conversation where that supposedly happened "could not be recorded for technical reasons" and was not presented by the FBI. Also turns out they were tapping his phones for little good reason and that they placed him on a no fly list, which cost him a job in Alaska, before turning up with gifts of money.
That before the FBI approached him he had no radical background, had made no threats, had no criminal record, no contact with terrorists, had undergone no training - all that highly suggests this is another of the infamous "FBI makes up a terror plot, gives a poor sap a bomb, foils the plot and looks like heroes" happenings, which have been going on since the first Bush administration and are, arguably, the civilian end of the P2OG operations (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Proactive_Preemptive_Operations_Group) started under Rumsfeld.
You know, I'm struggling to think of a terrorist plot in the mainland USA in the past decade by Islamist groups or individuals where the FBI wasn't critically involved in the planning and bomb-making parts, 9/11 aside. There are a couple, but for the most part, the FBI are causing more terror than they're stopping (because, as we all know, the media's response to even failed terrorist attacks now is to ramp the fear of angry brown people up to 11).
Oh hey, we're back to entrapment. :argh!:
The firebombing of that mosque sounds like a terrorist plot that was not organized by the FBI. (unless it was)
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on November 29, 2010, 05:23:44 AM
The firebombing of that mosque sounds like a terrorist plot that was not organized by the FBI. (unless it was)
This was no doubt done in some rash attempt by the Hindu's to sabotage world peace via the War in Iraq.
Interrogate every cow you know, they hold India's secrets.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on November 28, 2010, 05:17:33 PM
This sounds more like entrapment than a sting. Anybody find more details on this yet?
seeking out a hitman will often be set up as a sting by locals or feds, depending on the target. Not entrapment, though I think you mention this in a later post. People who seek out other people to help them kill other people are usually incarcerated regardless of their motives.
Cain has a point about FBI pseudo plots, but if the quoted statements are to be believed, it's hard to take this guy's side anymore than it would be to take a husbands' who tries to hire someone to teach him how to poison his wife and not get caught.
The government doesn't have a history of entrapment in taking out hits the way it does with recruiting terrorists. Though hey, at least they gave him a fake bomb instead of a real one this time.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 01, 2010, 04:19:02 AM
The government doesn't have a history of entrapment in taking out hits the way it does with recruiting terrorists. Though hey, at least they gave him a fake bomb instead of a real one this time.
:horrormirth:
I assume you mean feds, or post 911.
also (and I hate to seem like Im playing devil's advocate on this one) but when does snaring potential terrorists in stings become recruiting terrorists for propaganda?
I feel like I just defended the Fed's actions even some of the time and need a scalding hot shower to melt it off.
Is there a legitimate line and can we believe anymore that there are ANY rational people at or near the top making sure we're not being false flagged everytime?
also, if we're knee-jerking false flag every time we see it in the media, what makes us any different from them who see dragons in every windmill?
I don't expect false flagging every time I see this stuff, this was a special case since it was A) a sting and B) the paper couldn't even be bothered to say 'this guy went to the feds looking to become a terrorist'. Cain's stuff, about them failing to record the critical conversation, and getting the guy fired from his job? That takes stuff beyond simple skepticism and into full scale accusations against the agents.
It also turns out when he was targeted by the Feds, he showed no signs of radicalization, beyond writing three articles for the online magazine Jihad Recollections....on fitness. Yes, he introduced Jihadists to Pilates training.
And yeah, his comments about the bombing are pretty vile, but no more vile than standard American media discourse, which is perfectly accepting of people who call for the unilateral nuclear bombing of other countries (Glenn Reynolds, occasional writer for the NYT), for captured suspected terrorists to be tortured to death (Michael Goldfarb, aide to John McCain) or that Iraq should be invaded because "every few years or so, the US has to slap a country around to show the world it means business" (Jonah Goldberg).
There seems to be something of a double standard, where old white guys with degrees can call for near-genocidal levels of death and highly depraved acts all they want...and when a Muslim does the same (after months of FBI informants convincing him there is a global war on Muslims, helped by the FBI actually persecuting him) he is an Evil Bastard.
Sure, he seems to hold some pretty evil beliefs. But how much of that is due to the FBI dripping poison in his ear, month after month, while actually going out of their way to harass him and cause him trouble (the phone taps, the lost job in Alaska)? People are much less open to radicalization when they're employed and their lives are good, which suggests to me they did this on purporse, to make him more vulnerable. And would he have ever acted on those beliefs had the FBI not turned up and provided the entire infrastructure to carry out a terrorist attack for him? It seems highly questionable, to say the least.
You have sources for all this stuff by the way? The press won't say shit about any of this.
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/USAFFIDAVIT.pdf
http://www.google.com.br/#hl=en&biw=1366&bih=547&q=new+york+times+That+meeting+was+not+recorded+due+to+a+technical+difficulty.&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=833238570ae01901
http://my.firedoglake.com/teddysanfran/2010/11/27/fbi-blocked-mohamuds-employment-prospects/
http://gawker.com/5700200/
Incidentally, the FBI's actions just inspired some actual terrorism
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_to_aid_investigation_into_arson_fire_at_corvallis_mosque.html
Hmmm.
After looking over some of this, I am at once less sympathetic to Mohamud, and yet I still think that this was a really stupid sting. The FBI really went full retard on that one.
All I know is, SOMEONE needs to blow up fucking Pioneer Square, preferably while it's full of westside douchenozzles.
Fucking Portland, can't even come up with its own name for its premiere downtown public gathering space. And at least Seattle's P-Square is interesting.
Quote from: Cain on December 01, 2010, 05:35:55 PM
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/USAFFIDAVIT.pdf
http://www.google.com.br/#hl=en&biw=1366&bih=547&q=new+york+times+That+meeting+was+not+recorded+due+to+a+technical+difficulty.&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=833238570ae01901
http://my.firedoglake.com/teddysanfran/2010/11/27/fbi-blocked-mohamuds-employment-prospects/
http://gawker.com/5700200/
Incidentally, the FBI's actions just inspired some actual terrorism
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2010/11/fbi_to_aid_investigation_into_arson_fire_at_corvallis_mosque.html
Cain, didn't you mention that the FBI provided him with transportation?
Let's get something straight. This is how Corvallis and PDX relate, and it's about an 85 mile trip:
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n262/telarus/corvallis2pdx.jpg)
I'm of the opinion this event would not have happened without fed involvement (from as far back as the no-fly ban at least).
Yeah. Self-fulfilling prophecies are one thing, but this is all-out causing shit to happen because you want it to.
Telarus, not that I know of, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Also, more in the annals of "the FBI doing stupid shit":
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/04/AR2010120403710.html
QuoteBefore the sun rose, the informant donned a white Islamic robe. A tiny camera was sewn into a button, and a microphone was buried in a device attached to his keys.
"This is Farouk al-Aziz, code name Oracle," he said into the keys as he sat in his parked car in this quiet community south of Los Angeles. "It's November 13th, 4:30 a.m. And we're hot."
The undercover FBI informant – a convicted forger named Craig Monteilh – then drove off for 5 a.m. prayers at the Islamic Center of Irvine, where he says he spied on dozens of worshipers in a quest for potential terrorists.
...
Worshipers said Monteilh gravitated to Ahmadullah Sais Niazi, an Afghan-born Arabic-language instructor who was a regular at Friday prayers.
In May 2007, Monteilh said he recorded a conversation about jihad during a car ride with Niazi and another man. Monteilh said he suggested an operation to blow up buildings and Niazi agreed. An FBI agent later cited that and other taped conversations between the two in court as evidence that Niazi was a threat.
A few days later, Ayloush got an anguished phone call from Niazi and the other man in the car.
"They said Farouk had told them he had access to weapons and that they should blow up a mall," Ayloush recalled. "They were convinced this man was a terrorist."
Ayloush reported the FBI's own informant to the FBI. He said agents interviewed Niazi, who gave them the same account, but the agency took no action against Monteilh.
Quote from: Abraxas on December 01, 2010, 06:24:20 PM
All I know is, SOMEONE needs to blow up fucking Pioneer Square, preferably while it's full of westside douchenozzles.
Fucking Portland, can't even come up with its own name for its premiere downtown public gathering space. And at least Seattle's P-Square is interesting.
Portland's Pioneer Courthouse Square is a plaza, named for the Pioneer Courthouse. Seattle's Pioneer Square is a neighborhood, named after Pioneer Place Park. Pioneer Courthouse predates Pioneer Place Park.
Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that Seattle's P-Square is WAY BETTER, and thus more deserving of the name.
Extending this logic, I demand that Portland, ME change its name. I'm thinking "North Saco" has a nice ring to it.
Quote from: Abraxas on December 05, 2010, 07:46:09 PM
Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that Seattle's P-Square is WAY BETTER, and thus more deserving of the name.
Extending this logic, I demand that Portland, ME change its name. I'm thinking "North Saco" has a nice ring to it.
:lulz: