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Free Will

Started by Mistre, March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM

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Mistre

Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?

Both and neither.

What people fail to perceive is that, either way, we have free will. We decide things, because we ARE these chemical reactions.
If we love, love isn't a separate entity that comes and goes at her whims and is a real bitch.
We are love. We are hate. We are jealously. We are happiness.
We are our emotions, our thoughts, our impulses.
They don't control us, for they are part of us.
And we should accept them.

I am not saying you should go in a killing spree everytime you get pissed off.
I am saying that this urge to go in a killing spree that we feel when we get pissed, this love we feel when we see our crush, this happiness we feel when we get a good grade, a promotion or a raise, is part of us, and the very concept of treating these things as separate entities, or worse, repressing them, is like amputating parts of your body because you don't think they are pretty.

And, while it is sometimes necessary, amputation is not a thing to be used in such a trivial manner.

It starts with small cuts. Some concessions, some words that were never spoken, some people that were never punched.
Little by little, we are a little less than we were before.
Slowly, but steadily, we lose our deeper feelings, seeking only the white sugar of emotions that is the entertainment. And while white sugar is tasty, and it helps when drinking a bitter drink, it does not feed.

Eventually, these souls will end up disfigured, unable to move, unable to act.
Lobotomized and drooling on themselves uselessly.

This is sad. And pisses me off.

Let's try to understand ourselves. Our urges. Our desires. Our emotions.
And, if we really wish, improve ourselves by our own standards, not because some asshole told us to. But because we want, and this desire is part of us too.
Let's accept who we really are.


So, yeah. I am posting this here, though I am not sure if this should be in the rants section, or even if it should be in this forum.
It's really personal, so, please, be kind when you post here. I am not a native speaker, so, if you see any errors, please tell me so I may improve my english a little bit further.
Uber Supreme Poobah of Pope-Groping™

He who acknowledges his own inability to answer a question is wise, he who does not seek one is stupid.

Placid Dingo

Phew! For a moment I thought this was one of my first posts dug up from it's well earned crypt.

What I've noticed in Free Will discussions is most people tend to Ed up taking a position a lot like youve articulated, except some people call it Free Will and other people don't.

I personally find it useful to think of a spectrum of autonomy, where we can aim to develoP greater autonomy in areas of our lives.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

LMNO

It's wise to comment about reality while also remembering that you are a part of that reality. Good insight. I don't think it's as dire as you presume, though. Because of the premise. You are your chemicals, and you can't amputate your chemicals.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Reminds me of a conversation about love I had many years ago.

Friend: "Love is just a bunch of chemicals".

Me: "We are just a bunch of chemicals".

So yeah. No disagreement from me!
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2012, 05:02:21 AM
Reminds me of a conversation about love I had many years ago.

Friend: "Love is just a bunch of chemicals".

Me: "We are just a bunch of chemicals".

So yeah. No disagreement from me!

I love that shit. Somehow, my parents and life circumstances have raised me in a way such that it has never bothered me in the slightest that things like love and consciousness are purely the products of the material world.

Besides, if they weren't, some genius would figure it all out and then people would bitch and moan anyway:

"Love is just a second-order transcendent abstraction of the primary subconscious; how unromantic!"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I find it oddly even more romantic for being chemical; holy SHIT, look at what the physical world can do!

Some people think scientists are devoid of romance and are intent on stripping the world of its wonder. In my opinion, the opposite is true.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


navkat

There was this Star Trek episode and some alien dude was making first contact with humans over the onscreen thingy and was like "Ugly bags of mostly water."

It was, of course, explained that humanoids are like 80-some-odd percent water so this weirdo who'd never seen a human before, ran a scan to see what were made of. I think about that from time to time when I'm having one of my little "what determines the net sum of a personality?" Mental excursions.

Also, meat.[/I]




Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2012, 06:35:24 AM
I find it oddly even more romantic for being chemical; holy SHIT, look at what the physical world can do!

Some people think scientists are devoid of romance and are intent on stripping the world of its wonder. In my opinion, the opposite is true.

Yes, also this.

Mistre

Thanks for your comments!
Uber Supreme Poobah of Pope-Groping™

He who acknowledges his own inability to answer a question is wise, he who does not seek one is stupid.

Kai

Free Will? I didn't know he was chained up in the first place.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Kai

Quote from: Cainad on April 06, 2012, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2012, 06:35:24 AM
I find it oddly even more romantic for being chemical; holy SHIT, look at what the physical world can do!

Some people think scientists are devoid of romance and are intent on stripping the world of its wonder. In my opinion, the opposite is true.

Yes, also this.

Feynman had a very appropriate comment on this.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Mistre

Uber Supreme Poobah of Pope-Groping™

He who acknowledges his own inability to answer a question is wise, he who does not seek one is stupid.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Mistre on March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM
Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?

Both and neither.

Balls, on account of Papa Hemmingway.

I am more than a collection of perceptions.
Molon Lube

Placid Dingo

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 24, 2012, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: Mistre on March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM
Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?

Both and neither.

Balls, on account of Papa Hemmingway.

I am more than a collection of perceptions.

You've said this a number of times to reject a lot of thin including the use of the MBPTI and memetics.

What exactly ARE we that is beyond these types of collections of perceptions or memes or traits? Even if you can link me to something if you've already explained yourself.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

Doktor Howl

#14
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 24, 2012, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 24, 2012, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: Mistre on March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM
Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?

Both and neither.

Balls, on account of Papa Hemmingway.

I am more than a collection of perceptions.

You've said this a number of times to reject a lot of thin including the use of the MBPTI and memetics.

What exactly ARE we that is beyond these types of collections of perceptions or memes or traits? Even if you can link me to something if you've already explained yourself.

1.  I have NEVER rejected the use of memetics.  I have no idea what the hell MBPTI is, so I can't answer that.  What I DO reject is memetic false consciousness as the entirety of human existence.

2.  I am a human being.  What are you?

ETA:  http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,29003.0.html
Molon Lube