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I love Miley Cyrus

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, September 10, 2013, 08:31:45 PM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Faust on September 12, 2013, 05:22:11 PM
I think* The difference between them and her is that it is unpleasant to watch. All the others were aiming to titillate. This is decidedly unattractive.

Madonna and britney could have taken a big shit on the stage, but they didn't because while they went for shock value, they went for shock value someone would want.


*For what its worth, not much

You are spot on the money.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:34:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:19:39 PM
Or vice versa...What's being communicated isn't what's on the surface.  Which is a totally different thing.  If you know what I mean.

I think I do.

To be honest, I'm a fan of Bounce, so when I saw the VMA thing the first time, my reactions were: "Wow.  The sound mix is terrible.  She obviously can't hear the band.  What's with the tongue   Hm.  That's....that's not twerking.  She's just touching her toes."  And I more or less dismissed the rest as a failed skit.

I wasn't disturbed or outraged, but then again, I'm not really the target demographic here.  I also dismissed the haters, too.  But then, you all started pointing out the subtle things going on, and when I found out that her video was directed by the so-called king of the creepers, Terry Richardson, I got intrigued.  Now, though I can't say with any certainty what her inner motiviations are, her actions have certainly played out in a fairly seismic way, intentional or not.

But here's the thing:  The intention is almost irrelevant, even if she specifically planned this.  Or not.

The stage was set for the standard "20 year old dancing sexy for 40 year old creeps" (target audience).  Then the pedo bears.  Then the Beetlejuice thing.  Then the INSANELY GROTESQUE BURLESQUE, so to speak.  40 year old creeps do not feel show has delivered.  They don't understand it.  They start making monkey noises while banging on the keyboard about THAT SLUT, THAT WHORE, THAT DISGUSTING LITTLE TRAMP...As evidenced in the comments on youtube, facebook, etc.

Here's the really nasty part:  Rapists tend to say the same things about their victims, when they know or have observed their victims over a long period of time (as opposed to the far more rare stranger rape).  They do this to justify - mostly to themselves - their behavior.   She was a slut, so what they did didn't matter.

Then extend that just a tiny bit: 

1.  She's a SLUT AND A WHORE = "worthless".

2.  She's just another female shock act = "worthless".

There really isn't a practical difference.

What she was communicating - whether or not she intended to - was "All of my fans are disgusting 40 year old creepers, and I am aware of this.  NOW SO ARE THEY."

Yep. And, in addition, they now know she knows and has turned the tables on them, and it freaks them the fuck out. She's no longer a pretty package for them to leer at, she essentially turned on the light while they were trying to wank behind the screen, stuck out her tongue, and said DANCE, MONKEY, DANCE.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 05:42:11 PM
So, I just realized that this HAS been done before.

Not Madonna and Britney and what have you, because they were still attempting to be sexy even if they failed.

No, this is the act that Amy Sedaris did, with the pop-star twist. This is being GROSS on purpose.


Can I just point out that Amy Sedaris is FUCKING AWESOME?

She REALLY REALLY REALLY is.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 07:30:30 PM
Well, it WAS the point last night, before the thread ended up chasing it's own tail.

Fun begins again on page 13.

Thanks, I just caught up. Good stuff.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:40:56 PM
And it's no surprise to me that, as Nigel has repeatedly pointed out, she had a great deal of difficulty getting her label to process this album.

I mean, these guys know the score.  Can you imagine what the mood in the office was, when THIS was carted in?

"I CAN'T GO BACK TO ACCOUNTANCY.  OH GOD OH GOD."

In order to get the "We Can't Stop" video made, she had to stop showing potential funders the script for it. :lol:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:45:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.

So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.

Oh, they want something to do with her.  They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.

And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose.  By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky".  Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...

...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).

I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me.  8)"

That was my take.  The tongue thing was absolutely grotesque.  I am personally convinced that was exactly her intent.

The Beetlejuice. THE BEETLEJUICE!!!! A perfect representation/avatar of the creepers and how she sees them. Oh god, that's GLORIOUS.

It was AMAZING!
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cainad (dec.)

The use of Robin Thicke as a "This is YOU" prop somehow escaped me before. :lulz:

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:45:48 PM
You have to wear the purity rings because that's how we can sell sex to little girls, haha!
                                                                                            /



And honestly LMNO, that WAS marketed to teenage girls. Because if teenage girls don't embrace that shit they won't be available sexually for guys. Because teenage girls WANT to be all grown up and absolutely have crazy hormones all over the place and real sexual interests way before we as a society are cool with it, so you have to shoehorn them into this "OKAY YOU CAN WANT SEX BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A BAD GIRL" thing.

AND as light finally dawns and I can see why this flavor of the GROSS game is freaking me out when the other ones don't so much, Miley is (intentionally or no) taking on the same pretty privilege as other female comedians, but adding in the overtly sexual angle. Where Tina Fey or Amy Sedaris play characters that are asexual or fumblingly sexual even as adults, Miley is playing FUCK YOU I'LL DO WHAT I WANT AND IF I WANT TO SUCK DICK THAT'S MY CHOICE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU FIND SEXY. It is shameless, in the most literal interpretation of the word. She is rejecting her conventional beauty as a measuring rod for her value as a human being (which I love when other people do it) but then she is INSISTING that she gets to REMAIN A SEXUAL BEING while she's out there being ugly.

and like ten replies went up while I was writing this, which I haven't read.  :digtbk2:

I think that's an excellent analysis.

I also really enjoyed this interview:

http://idolator.com/7466715/miley-cyrus-explains-we-cant-stop-video-jimmy-kimmel


I also liked this one: http://www.parade.com/153453/hannah_dreyfus/miley-cyrus-first-interview-since-vmas-we-knew-we-were-making-history/

Quote"What's amazing is I think now, we're three days later and people are still talking about it," said Cyrus. "You're thinking about it more than I thought about it when I did it!"

Cyrus also noted that she doesn't "pay attention to the negative." "I've seen this play out so many times," Cyrus said. "How many times have we seen this play out in pop music?" She cited Madonna and Britney Spears as examples.

"Madonna's done it. Britney's done it. Every VMA performance, that's what you're looking for; you're wanting to make history," she concluded.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Faust

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:13:59 PM
I mean:

"HERE'S HOW THE MANIPULATION IS TARGETED."

Posts immediately afterward:

"Ouch!"

"Here's Lady Gaga being an ass in front of the queen."

"Someone say Amy Sedaris?"

"YES, AMY SEDARIS!"

25% of posts looking at manipulation.

75% of posts quickly looking away from the puppet strings.

And 100% of the posts, the entire set, are from people who are all extremely intelligent.

THERE'S SOMETHING LURKING IN THE WATER, HERE.  Gotta find out what it is.

TGRR,
I AM AHAB.

Ok, point.

It's a blind spot, one that every time I am aware of it, it slips out of view because it is uncomfortable to think about.

I suppose it's kind of a fnord.

If everyone has this blind spot then it can be exploited, it could be useful, both to understand it and be aware of the mechanism in myself and avoid falling for it, and to be able to implement it ourselves. I see what you mean by this being the kind of stuff we should have been doing since 2006.

I'm going to go back and watch it again and see why I found it so uncomfortable.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 08:15:15 PM
I don't follow.  How would creepy middle-aged guys know about a 4Chan meme?

My ten-year-old daughter and all her friends at school know about Pedobear. All the kids know about Pedobear. I'm sure there are older adults who DON'T know about Pedobear, but I suspect most people know, and anyone who's tapped into pop culture know. Wacky morning DJ's know about Pedobear. Everybody knows about Pedobear. The Internet is mainstream.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 07:28:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:45:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.

So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.

Oh, they want something to do with her.  They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.

And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose.  By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky".  Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...

...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).

I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me.  8)"

That was my take.  The tongue thing was absolutely grotesque.  I am personally convinced that was exactly her intent.

The Beetlejuice. THE BEETLEJUICE!!!! A perfect representation/avatar of the creepers and how she sees them. Oh god, that's GLORIOUS.

How could anyone take it any other way?  She may as well have hung up a sign.

Yep.
He even had a gold chain. A. GOLD. CHAIN.  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

The Johnny


I read the first page of this thread, and I want to express my ideas before I get sidetracked with it, because its something I've been thinking of since the VMAs and now its triangulated with Wrecking Ball.


I denominate this aesthetic trend as "Awkward Sexuality" thru a perspective that everything is calculated and planned out in the entertainment business and that there are no coincidences, just well crafted publicists and marketers constantly trying to one-up each other.

What is this product that is sold thru the incarnation of Ms. Cyrus? The synchretism between the all-out "femme fatale" or sexual-woman that is manifested thru the likes of (pop culture police, ill reference what i know but im no expert) say Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or Katy Perry in which the sex card is played straight and direct thru the manner of "I have a great body and i know how to use it, and here i come"... and the fusion with it's counter-part, which is girly-girl innocence, such as say, Taylor Swift or Demi Lovato, in which "feely, touchy" things take prevalence over a sexuated message or expression. So the extremes can be analytically categorized as "sexuality" vs. "innocence", and in such a market of extremes, somebody necesarily would come in and eat up the in-between market of them - enter Miley.

1st observation: VMAs... with the bloated budget and image consulting she undoubtedly has, the shorts she wore in the presentation were not a last minute wardrobe malfunction... I think there's an overwhelming consensus that she has a very healthy, young and attractive body, so her body image and attractiveness is uncontested and thus can get away with a bad wardrobe without tarnishing that consensus... but besides the wardrobe (and the transition from the 1st attire) another thing that managed to catch everyone's eye was supposedly her "trashy" moves, and the more introspective and observant managed to understand that it was not the "trashy" nature of it, because that's a common day to day sight, but rather how it made themselves feel... "uncomftable", "awkward", "shame"...

2nd observation: Wrecking Ball... yes, shes naked except for her boots, shes "riding sensually" the demolition ball and shes licking a hammer... but its a type of b-side sensuality, it does not come off right, it's not played out properly enough and one is given enough time to read between the lines, see between the cracks that it's a comedy, suspension of disbelief is broken...

And in this manner she gobbles up the market between the extremes, playing "badly" both extreme tropes, but in reality, it's a synchretism between the sexual femme-fatale and the innocent girl coming-of-age. I rest my case.

Now if you pardon me, I'll be drinking bleach thru one of my ears.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

LMNO

RWHN, I'd suggest hitching your wagon to Johnny, because he says what I think you've been trying to say a lot better than you did.

Mangrove

What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

Reginald Ret

Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 04:29:47 AM

I read the first page of this thread, and I want to express my ideas before I get sidetracked with it, because its something I've been thinking of since the VMAs and now its triangulated with Wrecking Ball.


I denominate this aesthetic trend as "Awkward Sexuality" thru a perspective that everything is calculated and planned out in the entertainment business and that there are no coincidences, just well crafted publicists and marketers constantly trying to one-up each other.

What is this product that is sold thru the incarnation of Ms. Cyrus? The synchretism between the all-out "femme fatale" or sexual-woman that is manifested thru the likes of (pop culture police, ill reference what i know but im no expert) say Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or Katy Perry in which the sex card is played straight and direct thru the manner of "I have a great body and i know how to use it, and here i come"... and the fusion with it's counter-part, which is girly-girl innocence, such as say, Taylor Swift or Demi Lovato, in which "feely, touchy" things take prevalence over a sexuated message or expression. So the extremes can be analytically categorized as "sexuality" vs. "innocence", and in such a market of extremes, somebody necesarily would come in and eat up the in-between market of them - enter Miley.

1st observation: VMAs... with the bloated budget and image consulting she undoubtedly has, the shorts she wore in the presentation were not a last minute wardrobe malfunction... I think there's an overwhelming consensus that she has a very healthy, young and attractive body, so her body image and attractiveness is uncontested and thus can get away with a bad wardrobe without tarnishing that consensus... but besides the wardrobe (and the transition from the 1st attire) another thing that managed to catch everyone's eye was supposedly her "trashy" moves, and the more introspective and observant managed to understand that it was not the "trashy" nature of it, because that's a common day to day sight, but rather how it made themselves feel... "uncomftable", "awkward", "shame"...

2nd observation: Wrecking Ball... yes, shes naked except for her boots, shes "riding sensually" the demolition ball and shes licking a hammer... but its a type of b-side sensuality, it does not come off right, it's not played out properly enough and one is given enough time to read between the lines, see between the cracks that it's a comedy, suspension of disbelief is broken...

And in this manner she gobbles up the market between the extremes, playing "badly" both extreme tropes, but in reality, it's a synchretism between the sexual femme-fatale and the innocent girl coming-of-age. I rest my case.

Now if you pardon me, I'll be drinking bleach thru one of my ears.
I could handle the first 'thru', but for some reason using both 'synchretism" and 'thru' in one sentence breaks my brain. I can't read this.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

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