It's called Irreversible (with a bunch of little lines over letters, because the dirty French made it)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/)
Quite possibly the only film I've ever seen that can be best described as "brutal". The opening title sequence could bring about a seizure, the second scene could make some people throw up and cry at the same time (and that's just the camera work), and there's a rape scene that is so messed up and realistic that it causes most of the theaters it's played in to nearly empty.
IMO, the ideas presented are a little too once sided and pessimistic, and is lopsided in its presentation of men and women (with men being brutal monsters, but I think that's a somewhat unintentional depiction, as it tries to point out that women are fucked up too, but just present it in the same visceral way). Still, it's a great movie, and I reccommend it highly.
yes. it has a 12 minute rape scene.
now explain to me again why i should watch this?
- 000,
enjoyed the 12 minute "fighting over a pair of sunglasses" scene in They Live a lot more, probably
Best thing about that imdb page:
QuoteIf you liked this movie, our database reccomends:
I Spit on Your Grave
Caligula
Pink Flamingos
Also, it runs backwards. Didn't
Memento do this two years earlier?
Yea, Memento ran backwards and forwards. I loved that movie, but dammit someone stole it...or my boyfriend's mom still has it or something, I forget.
This movie sounds good, but the rape scene thing...I don't know. You can shoot people, stab them, cut them into little pieces, explode them, smash them, whatever and I'll watch no problem, but sexual violence, esp. rape, is probably the one thing in movies that will actually disturb me and make me feel uncomfortable.
I'd have to think about it...
Speaking of disturbing French movies, one came out a few years ago called "rape me"... sort of like Thelma and Louise meets Monster, two women get raped and go on a sexual revenge killing spree.
Thing was, the two leading women were French porn stars, so they were comfortable with actual sex on camera, so the sex/rape scenes are incredibly graphic.
Then ending was crap, but so what?
Also, for depressing revelations about the human condition, check out any of Lars von Trier, or the Dogme 95 movement.
Guuugh. I could go on a whole rant about rape scenes, but I will leave it at: they really bother me.
I would otherwise be interested in both this movie and the one LMNO mentioned, but rape scenes.... No. I can generally handle them when they are insinuated, or very quick, but really... Is there any purpose behind having drawn out, graphic rape scenes? Really?
As a turn on?
Bad date movies, ITT.
Well, exactly.
And I have a gripe with anything that encourages rape as a sexy idea.
There are rape fantasies/role plays/etc, which are totally a-okay. People have them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
And then there's actual rape, and having it reinforced that it's arousing. That's different.
Argh. Sorry, I am going to try not to get preachy. Rape is just one of those things I get really aggressive about.
You know I was kidding, right?
As opposed to in the 70s-80s, movie rape scenes these days do not have an undertone of erotica.
Like I said, I get really aggressive. :wink:
Sorry! :oops:
Once again, I'm surprised that people here can be disturbed or bothered by anything other than mankind's ignorance. It's not the act of man's violence against man that should disturb us, but the reasoning and logic used to justify man's violence against man.
Quote from: Rev. Thwack on August 30, 2007, 04:00:39 PM
Once again, I'm surprised that people here can be disturbed or bothered by anything other than mankind's ignorance. It's not the act of man's violence against man that should disturb us, but the reasoning and logic used to justify man's violence against man.
I would mostly agree with that.
See above, me saying I am going to try to avoid getting too ranty/preachy about rape, because I could really go off on that topic, so I won't. But in general, yes, that is true.
What about Rape by Food?
That I endorse. It is delicious! :lol:
Quote from: triple zero on August 30, 2007, 01:19:41 PM
yes. it has a 12 minute rape scene.
now explain to me again why i should watch this?
- 000,
enjoyed the 12 minute "fighting over a pair of sunglasses" scene in They Live a lot more, probably
I dunno. Then again, I listen to speedcore intentionally too, which I'm pretty sure has the same motivations.
i listen to speedcore just because sometimes you want a beat to be HARDER and FASTER than all the rest. not to numb myself.
speedcore is good for doing the dishes by, or vacuuming your room.
12 minute rape scene would probably just make me feel ill :)
Quote from: triple zero on August 31, 2007, 12:33:29 AM
i listen to speedcore just because sometimes you want a beat to be HARDER and FASTER than all the rest. not to numb myself.
speedcore is good for doing the dishes by, or vacuuming your room.
12 minute rape scene would probably just make me feel ill :)
It does have a purpose though. It's over the top, but the point of the film is made very clear.
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on August 30, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Well, exactly.
And I have a gripe with anything that encourages rape as a sexy idea.
There are rape fantasies/role plays/etc, which are totally a-okay. People have them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
And then there's actual rape, and having it reinforced that it's arousing. That's different.
Argh. Sorry, I am going to try not to get preachy. Rape is just one of those things I get really aggressive about.
I think they try to break social taboos in order to affect psychological imprinting... sadly its too "in your face" and sometimes fails.
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on August 30, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Well, exactly.
And I have a gripe with anything that encourages rape as a sexy idea.
There are rape fantasies/role plays/etc, which are totally a-okay. People have them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
And then there's actual rape, and having it reinforced that it's arousing. That's different.
Argh. Sorry, I am going to try not to get preachy. Rape is just one of those things I get really aggressive about.
One of the things about this movie is that it in no way eroticizes the rape scene. It just takes a fly on the wall stance and shows you how brutal and horrible of a thing it is.
You both make very valid points.
One of the things I wrestle with, however, in regards to rape scenes is the impact it can have on people who have been raped. A man or woman who has been raped can be "triggered" by seeing a scene like that, and it can often result in some pretty major issues for them. I hate to see that happen, particularly with people I know. But at the same time, I don't feel it's correct to regulate--you know, like putting a warning at the beginning of a movie or something, or limiting what people can show... As much as I have a pretty violent aversion to scenes like that (my guess is that watching that would make me physically ill), that doesn't mean I want to see them controlled or limited.
I don't think I just said anything coherent. My apologies if that is the case; I blame the cold meds!
It seems as if it would serve the same purpose as the first 20 minutes of "saving Private Ryan".
That is, a massive sensory/emotional overload to short out the brain, after which you can lay down a story on a blank slate.
In the case of "saving privat Ryan", it allowed Speilberg to present a maudlin, sappy story with overtones of anti-semitism as some sort of great work of art.
*shrug* I found Saving Private Ryan to be pretty trite and stupid. Perhaps these tactics are not so effective on me due to my heartlessness. Hmm.
(http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/ce/Askingforit12345.jpg)
They are just asking for it.
Quote from: LMNO on September 05, 2007, 03:08:09 PM
It seems as if it would serve the same purpose as the first 20 minutes of "saving Private Ryan".
That is, a massive sensory/emotional overload to short out the brain, after which you can lay down a story on a blank slate.
In the case of "saving privat Ryan", it allowed Speilberg to present a maudlin, sappy story with overtones of anti-semitism as some sort of great work of art.
Anti-semitism?
If you follow the sub-plot of the only Jew on the squad, it sort of jumps out at you.
*Re-jack*
I saw this movie when it came out and I can honestly say no other movie ever hit me as hard, right in my stomach. The rape scene is part of it, sure, it's definitely one of the more brutally realistic scenes I've seen on film. But it's more than that.
The comparison with Memento isn't very interesting, because in in Irreversible, the story is told backwards for completely different reasons. It's not something that is really necessary to the story. Telling it backwards just makes the whole thing much more effective and tragic when you know what will happen to everyone involved. Suddenly it's all inevitable... and thoroughly irreversible.
It's a good movie. Not perfect, but bloody hard hitting. Most people will find it hard to watch though.
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on September 05, 2007, 03:13:14 PM
*shrug* I found Saving Private Ryan to be pretty trite and stupid. Perhaps these tactics are not so effective on me due to my heartlessness. Hmm.
Mind tricks work on some minds... other minds have already been modified so the effects for the "masses" don't seem to work as well. You may have played with your own brain enough that the effect of "shock and reset" just doesn't work... at least not with the average example.
I did find that Tideland hit me a couple times, of course Terry Gilliam aims for anything but the average ;-)
Irreversible! and Baise Moi (one you referred to earlier, LMNO) are both quite uninteresting in opinion. They're like the french versions of Ichi the Killer/Visitor Q/other weird shit from Takashi Miike. Baise Moi was filmed with crapquality DVcams and are nothing but fetish-films released for the mainstreams. See one fake snuff movie, see them all. Irreversible! was trying too hard to be interesting, like a retarded kid screaming look at me and the 12 min rape scenes/all the other filth wasn't the best vessel to get their points across imo.
You want a good film with brutality? Krzysztof Kieslowski's "A short film about killing."
Or how about Hitchcock's Rear Window. All the violence is implied. You don't need outright brutality on screen to have an effect, and this film illustrates that perfectly.
I agree that movie violence (like many things) is often best when it's just implied. But in the case of Irreversible I think it was necessary to really show it, in order to drive the point home, so to speak. Of course, I can't really know what the movie would have been like without it the rape scene, but it probably wouldn't have left such a deep impression as it did.
The movie is not about rape, it's about the inevitability of bad things happening to random people. Not showing the bad things explicitly would lessen the psychological effect in this case, IMHO.
Quote from: Voltigeur on September 19, 2007, 03:34:30 PM
Irreversible! and Baise Moi (one you referred to earlier, LMNO) are both quite uninteresting in opinion. They're like the french versions of Ichi the Killer/Visitor Q/other weird shit from Takashi Miike. Baise Moi was filmed with crapquality DVcams and are nothing but fetish-films released for the mainstreams. See one fake snuff movie, see them all. Irreversible! was trying too hard to be interesting, like a retarded kid screaming look at me and the 12 min rape scenes/all the other filth wasn't the best vessel to get their points across imo.
At his best moments, Miike has a way of blending graphic violence with absurdity and surrealism. I havent seen either of these french movies so I dont feel like I can really comment, but so far the description of Irreversible has piqued my curiosity.
As for Miike, its rumoured that he got his film start by laundering money for the Yakuza... and considering the prominence of organized crime in japan, this doesn't sound too far fetched. Miike's glorification of the 'tough-guy' culture of Osaka (where he's from) in the Young Thugs movies gives me the impression that this is probably true, as well as his remakes of Fukasakus mob movies (notably Graveyard of Honor). Beat Takeshi said in an interview that it is a little known fact outside of japan, that part of the reason the Fukasaku movies were smash hits in japan was literally because the Yakuza used strong-arm tactics in order to promote them (kind of reminds of the way voting worked in the days of old). They'd literally sell people tickets on the street by force, and once you had it you could either go see the film or not. Although, I doubt that they did this with any endorsement from Kinji Fukasaku, this is probably just a case of the Yakuza wanting to see themselves portrayed in film... so they did their best to get the genre off the ground.
Whether or not one wants to take Takeshi's claim seriously is a matter of personal choice, I suppose... he's done a lot to try and distance himself from the Yakuza, even though its kind of his niche as an actor/director.
I'm not sure what Miike has to say on the subject, but I'm sure I'll eventually see an interview where he addresses it. Either way, I'm a fan of his works (both his earlier, more serious films, and his later absurdities.) Still, he has directed his fare share of crap, so you never really know what you're going to get.
I'm pretty sure that none of us can get behind the romantization of rape, but how do we feel about organized crime? Actually, I must admit that I got a good laugh out of the mayor of Nagasaki being shot by a member of the Yamaguchi-gumi. Also, I'm a big fan of the Yakuza Papers series by Fukasaku, his extremely narrative story-telling style lends itself well to being able to tell a story that spans the course of several decades... even if it drags on and on and on and on and on.
The ending of Battles Without Honour or Nobility literally made me scream with pure ecstatic joy, perhaps not as much as Sword of Doom, but it was still a cacophonous shriek of unparalleled joy.
Here is a french movie to be avoided: High Tension. (http://imdb.com/title/tt0338095/) Spoiler: the killer is actually the main character, who spends the whole movie trying to avoid being killed, as it turns out she's schizo-affective and has been the killer the whole time... this plothook is executed with blatant disregard to the movies setup, and makes absolutely no sense. There is, however, an ok female masturbation scene towards the beginning.
RAPE
I Spit on Your Grave: A gang rape scene towards the beginning is used to justify killings later in the movie.
Rubbers Lover: A rape scene towards the middle of the movie is meant to portray a particular character as a sadist, the victim is later 'redeemed' by the deaths of almost everyone involved and is one of the only survivors of the movie. Of course sadism and torture are primary themes of the movie, and an excuse for the director to incorporate a latex body suit into the film. The redeeming factor of this movie is how fucking loud it is.
Graveyard of Honor: the main character of this film is kind of an anti-hero, in that he is the main character but basically just an amoral piece of shit. In this case, he breaks into a womans house in order to hide from the police, forces himself upon her, and this becomes the basis of an ongoing relationship. (if I remember correctly they actually get married.) Anyway, later on in the film, he eats her bones to intimidate his old boss into giving him back his territory... which is probably the best scene of the film.
Immortal: another french movie, very bizarre sci-fi. Basically, the premise of this film is that the egyptian god Horus posesses the body of a man in order to try and procreate before he's sentenced to death at the hands of Anubis and Bast. He then forces the man to rape an Alien, which is in fact mutating into a human being, and is one of the only creatures in all of existence capable of carrying the seed of a god. The sex scenes in the film vary in their consentuality, even though they are all between the same two (three?) partners. This is a very strange film, and worth seeing at least once.
A Clockwork Orange: Everybody has seen it, but its worth mention. The rape scene is actually pretty brutal.
Silent Hill: besides being a terrible fucking movie (although kind of ok, in terms of movies based on video games... I mean it was better than Super Mario Brothers) this is probably the origin of the Pyramid Head RAPE meme. Although I dont know if there are any actual rape scenes in the film itself, since I couldnt stomach more than twenty minutes of this piece of shit, Pyramid Head does rip a womans clothes off... followed immediately by her skin.
Deliverance: A classic, for being one of the few movies to portray man on man rape.
Penitentiary: I'm not sure which one has the violent shower rape scene, I always confuse it with the one that has Mr. T. Anyway, you can chalk this one up as a terrible Blaxploitation film.
The Streetfighter: I'm referring here to the Sonny Chiba movie. In this film there is an implied gangrape scene with one of Terry Tsurugi's (Sonny Chiba) clients sister, after she is sold into slavery by Terry Tsurugi because his client couldnt actually pay Tsurugis fee. This is done entirely to show that Terry Tsurugi is an asshole with no regard for human life, and to the best of my knowledge that character never comes up again (which leads to an inside joke between myself and my friend Will, with whom I first watched the film, "Do you think they're still raping that chick?")
Ichi the Killer: in the very beginning of the movie a woman is beaten severely, and is about to be raped, before Ichi intervenes. As it turns out, Rape is one of the central themes of the film, big surprise.
Boys Dont Cry: based on the true story of Brandon Teena, the movie is about a transexual who is raped and murdered after his male friends discover that he in fact, has female genitalia. Aside from misleading people into thinking that Nebraska looks exactly like Texas, the movie does not mislead people into thinking that rural Nebraska is, in fact, a terrible fucking place to live. (while not nearly as bad as the Deep South, or the Bible Belt, IMO.)
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me: I wont spoil this one, but RAPE is central to the entire plot of twin peaks.
Sonatine: Takeshis character interrupts a rape in progress, shooting the potential rapist in the stomach, which leads to a relationship between himself and the victim throughout the film.
Visitor Q: A woman is killed, and there is a pretty graphic scene of necrophilia... which leads to the question, can necrophilia be classified as rape?
In truth, there are many many more movies that could go on the list, I'm sure I'm leaving out a pretty big chunk of Miike films, as well as japanese shock movies in general... the All Night Long movies specifically, but I am trying to limit this to stuff that I've seen. I'll modify it later if I think of anything I missed.
...
Do you think they're still raping that chick?
That's an... informative... post, Z3.
I love Takeshi Kitanos movies, btw. Miike is just a bit too much for my tastes, judging from what I've seen (Ichi, Audition, and something more).
Quote from: nurbldoff on October 06, 2007, 02:07:29 AM
That's an... informative... post, Z3.
I love Takeshi Kitanos movies, btw. Miike is just a bit too much for my tastes, judging from what I've seen (Ichi, Audition, and something more).
GOZU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ9b1iMqNiU&mode=related&search=
This is probably my favorite one so far.
One of my friends showed me the rape scene from that film. We also recorded the sound, slowed it down and made it sound like ogre screams.