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I can't summon the energy to care about Ukraine..

Started by Cain, December 18, 2013, 01:46:46 PM

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Cain

..but I just want to note that watching John McCain blather on about freedom while standing next to Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of the Nazi-esque Svoboda Party is too hilarious not to comment on.

LMNO

Interestingly, I was going to ask about this, as it popped up on NPR this morning.  Not the McCain part, which is awesome and so apt, but more about the economic extortion Russia seems to be exerting.

Cain

It's all bullshit and grandstanding.  Every major politician in Ukraine is a crook on the take, and they will tell you whatever you want to hear if they think they can profit from it.  Whether they're pro-Europe or pro-Russian can vary from hour to hour.  The admittedly rather lovely Yulia Tymoshenko, for example, currently the darling of Western liberal anti-Russians was not so long ago negotiating sweetheart deals for Russian gas pipelines through Ukraine.

The EU made a bad deal, and the Russians were willing to impose more costs of noncompliance than the EU was willing to overcome with promises of aid and assistance.  The EU should have made a better deal, and American Neocons should stop crying every time Russia does something they don't like.  They're adults and, quite frankly, it's undignified.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Cain on December 18, 2013, 02:05:17 PM
The admittedly rather lovely Yulia Tymoshenko,

Just googled her.  Hotness.

She is a bad guy, though, I can tell.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
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- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

She's not the worst person in Ukraine, but she's hardly an angel, it's true.

Ukranian politics has all the sophistication, displays of fake drama and manufactured plotlines of a low-budget soap opera, with about the same number of important players.  Tymoshenko made her fortune in the gas business in the early 90s, which was hardly the most legit of businesses, either in Ukraine or Russia (where she imported from).  She was also the annointed leader of the "Orange Revolution", which was planned by the same Neocons who cannot stop blubbering now.

She's probably the smartest there too, as she's managing to play every side - the EU's liberals, US neocons, and Russian business interests - against Yanukovych.

East Coast Hustle

So Vladimir Klitschko....just angling to be a name-brand figurehead or does he actually have some legitimate political juice?
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Cain

I'm guessing you mean Vitali?  He's got some actual political support, but he's never scored too well nationally.  His base tends to be the educated, liberal middle classes...and there are a lot of contenders in that area. including the far more recognisable Yulia.  He also appears to have some American backing, no doubt due to his support for Ukranian-NATO engagement.

He could be sincere, but he's never really had enough power for that to be apparent or not.

East Coast Hustle

I did mean Vitali. And it's being reported that he has retired from boxing to focus on his political ambitions, which include becoming President of Ukraine.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

popeurmom

Quote from: Cain on December 18, 2013, 02:05:17 PM
It's all bullshit and grandstanding.  Every major politician in Ukraine is a crook on the take, and they will tell you whatever you want to hear if they think they can profit from it.  Whether they're pro-Europe or pro-Russian can vary from hour to hour.  The admittedly rather lovely Yulia Tymoshenko, for example, currently the darling of Western liberal anti-Russians was not so long ago negotiating sweetheart deals for Russian gas pipelines through Ukraine.

The EU made a bad deal, and the Russians were willing to impose more costs of noncompliance than the EU was willing to overcome with promises of aid and assistance.  The EU should have made a better deal, and American Neocons should stop crying every time Russia does something they don't like.  They're adults and, quite frankly, it's undignified.


Oh, I can see the similarities between a pipeline, an economic venture, and an invasion and occupation. Hm. If America provides Mexico with some resource, we MUST be ok with them invading us. Cause, we did business in the past, you know. So yeah.

Cain


popeurmom

Quote from: Cain on March 04, 2014, 02:41:46 PM
Shame you can't type comprehensibly.

Sucks that you continuously resort to ad hominem.

Cain

I can choose to do otherwise.

However, you will always be an idiot with verbal diarrhea.

Faust

Quote from: popeurmom on March 04, 2014, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 04, 2014, 02:41:46 PM
Shame you can't type comprehensibly.

Sucks that you continuously resort to ad hominem.

Well you did boil down a former Soviet union, with many different power plays going on to a one liner.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

popeurmom

Quote from: Faust on March 04, 2014, 02:48:51 PM
Quote from: popeurmom on March 04, 2014, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 04, 2014, 02:41:46 PM
Shame you can't type comprehensibly.

Sucks that you continuously resort to ad hominem.

Well you did boil down a former Soviet union, with many different power plays going on to a one liner.

Perhaps I could have made it a paragraph instead of a sentence, like my good friend did, then. Maybe that would have appeased your need for more text.

My purpose was not to "boil down a former Soviet Union", but to show an irrationality in Cain's thought process.

Negotiation for a pipe to run across my borders does not equal acceptance of an invasion and occupation. If you can't see that, then I'm sorry.

Cain

And where did I claim it was?

Go on, show me.  I'll be impressed, I promise.