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Ted talk spins morality on it's head

Started by P3nT4gR4m, May 02, 2014, 06:28:45 AM

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Junkenstein

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 06, 2014, 09:18:57 PM
I guess you're all right and I'm done even thinking about this bullshit. It's too depressing. As a species, we probably never will reach any non localised consensus on what it means to be a decent human being.

Thanks for the input. Needed to thrash that shit out.

I suggest you're looking at this from the wrong angle. Consider what the world could be with an understanding that you can be a decent human in a context that looks nothing like your own.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Just because there are no absolutes doesn't mean the consideration of morality is a meaningless pursuit. It just means there are no pat answers or convenient universal codes.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


LMNO

^^ This.^^

Lack of an absolute morality does not mean the absence of all morality.


P3nT4gR4m


I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Cramulus

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 07, 2014, 12:10:02 PM
Lack of an absolute morality does not mean the absence of all morality.

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
It does, however, make it optional

I don't follow

Me - I don't believe in good or evil in any objective sense, but that's not an excuse... Just that my personal sense of morality isn't based on absolutes and religious baggage.





Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
It does, however, make it optional

In the same way adhering to social norms is always "optional"; you CAN go to the library without any pants on, if you want to. But society only functions because of those social norms, which we are conditioned to from birth. This is not a bad thing; as Dr. Bruce Perry says, the smallest functional biological unit of humankind is not the individual, it is the clan. People who violate social norms consistently or to an extreme degree are considered antisocial, a threat to the well-being of the rest of the community, and rightly so.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 07, 2014, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
It does, however, make it optional

In the same way adhering to social norms is always "optional"; you CAN go to the library without any pants on, if you want to. But society only functions because of those social norms, which we are conditioned to from birth. This is not a bad thing; as Dr. Bruce Perry says, the smallest functional biological unit of humankind is not the individual, it is the clan. People who violate social norms consistently or to an extreme degree are considered antisocial, a threat to the well-being of the rest of the community, and rightly so.

This works just fine in an intimate, monkeysphere-friendy clan size. What we see with extended clans is the immoral, quite easily, assuming control of the clan, dictating morality whilst remaining, to a greater or lesser degree, immune.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 03:22:22 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 07, 2014, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
It does, however, make it optional

In the same way adhering to social norms is always "optional"; you CAN go to the library without any pants on, if you want to. But society only functions because of those social norms, which we are conditioned to from birth. This is not a bad thing; as Dr. Bruce Perry says, the smallest functional biological unit of humankind is not the individual, it is the clan. People who violate social norms consistently or to an extreme degree are considered antisocial, a threat to the well-being of the rest of the community, and rightly so.

This works just fine in an intimate, monkeysphere-friendy clan size. What we see with extended clans is the immoral, quite easily, assuming control of the clan, dictating morality whilst remaining, to a greater or lesser degree, immune.

How are you defining immoral?
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 07, 2014, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 03:22:22 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 07, 2014, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
It does, however, make it optional

In the same way adhering to social norms is always "optional"; you CAN go to the library without any pants on, if you want to. But society only functions because of those social norms, which we are conditioned to from birth. This is not a bad thing; as Dr. Bruce Perry says, the smallest functional biological unit of humankind is not the individual, it is the clan. People who violate social norms consistently or to an extreme degree are considered antisocial, a threat to the well-being of the rest of the community, and rightly so.

This works just fine in an intimate, monkeysphere-friendy clan size. What we see with extended clans is the immoral, quite easily, assuming control of the clan, dictating morality whilst remaining, to a greater or lesser degree, immune.

How are you defining immoral?

Don't kill people? Killing people is wrong. Unless you control society, then there's lots of good reasons for killing people, even sending those you control to lay down their own lives to make this happen.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 10:06:22 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 07, 2014, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 03:22:22 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 07, 2014, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 07, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
It does, however, make it optional

In the same way adhering to social norms is always "optional"; you CAN go to the library without any pants on, if you want to. But society only functions because of those social norms, which we are conditioned to from birth. This is not a bad thing; as Dr. Bruce Perry says, the smallest functional biological unit of humankind is not the individual, it is the clan. People who violate social norms consistently or to an extreme degree are considered antisocial, a threat to the well-being of the rest of the community, and rightly so.

This works just fine in an intimate, monkeysphere-friendy clan size. What we see with extended clans is the immoral, quite easily, assuming control of the clan, dictating morality whilst remaining, to a greater or lesser degree, immune.

How are you defining immoral?

Don't kill people? Killing people is wrong. Unless you control society, then there's lots of good reasons for killing people, even sending those you control to lay down their own lives to make this happen.

Is killing people always immoral? And you haven't answered the question "how do you define immoral?", you have only proposed a rule of morality.                                                                                                                             
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


P3nT4gR4m

Well it turns out its impossible. So it's basically a question of personal preference.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 08, 2014, 08:50:45 AM
Well it turns out its impossible. So it's basically a question of personal preference.

More like a question of consensus.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

P3nT4gR4m

It can't be consensus. Consensus is scientifically measurable. Science can't measure morality, remember?  :?

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark