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Goth Counterculture: A disappointment.

Started by The Johnny, October 22, 2009, 09:36:05 PM

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The Johnny

This implies a lot of my subjective view of the issue.

Ive had dealings with the goth for about 11 years, since 1998. Obviously at different moments ive had different notions and depths about what i think its supposed to be or what i like about it.

Goths were a Germanic tribe that brought the downfall of Rome after being expelled from Eastern Europe by the Huns ... Gothic is a type of architecture (oglivie in spanish)... in literature theres Gothic Horror (or something like that)... Goth is a genre of music... Goth in pre-medieval and mediaval vocabulary meant "barbaric" and "barbaric" used to mean "those who do not live within a city".

So i thought to myself it was in some ways arrogant and in other ways badass that people took up the title of Goths... a depreciation of "civilization" (civilization as order; an excess of order)... and the symbolism of black is very powerful, nowadays i associate black with the unconscoius part of ourselves, and the unconscious part of ourselves is our irrational and "disorderly" part... (obviously theres these kids nowadays that interpret it more as death related)... then all these people, male and female alike all wearing makeup i interpreted it as them not being highly judgemental (at least on levels that one shouldnt be, like gee, how much of a gay basher can a guy that wears eyeliner be...)... dressing strangely has its quirks, such as acting as a visual filter, to keep away anyone that is too square to accept it, and dressing strangely also is a sort of freedom, to dress as one wishes and not letting social pressure to tell you otherwise...

So derived from all of this my idea of what "goth" should be as opposed to what it turns out to be generally: people that are interested in the humanities, that arent retarded enough to internalize dogmas such as gender role (which is just the tip of the iceberg and has millions of ramifications), and that they do what they like as much as they can get away with without taking into account social norm/taboo.

Unfortunately, there is a gigantic bridge between what my idea of how it should be, to what it really turns out to be. The Slipknotian/Mansonite/nu-metal "goths" that are attracted to the "darkness" and symbolize it as death that were abused by their family, or the whiner passive agressive cunts... or the female that is into goth because of only the clothes as a tool to get attention that she didnt get from her broken family father... or the proto-fascist antisocial asshole... or the Vamphyrezzz that want to suck your blood...

I havent self categorized myself as "goth" since 8 years ago, when i was 15... but if i go out to clubs, id rather go to the goth clubs to see if i run into some interesting person by rare coincidence or just enjoy watching all the swirl of odd-looking people.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

LMNO

I don't think you can blame a subculture just because it doesn't match up with the little fantasy you came up with in your head.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: JohNyx on October 22, 2009, 09:36:05 PM
This implies a lot of my subjective view of the issue.

Ive had dealings with the goth for about 11 years, since 1998. Obviously at different moments ive had different notions and depths about what i think its supposed to be or what i like about it.

Goths were a Germanic tribe that brought the downfall of Rome after being expelled from Eastern Europe by the Huns ...

That was the Visigoths, as described by Ammianus Marcellus.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Commenting on the rest of the piece, I have never seen a Goth who thought he/she was a Visigoth.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

Quotein literature theres Gothic Horror (or something like that)

Well, this is really the most telling sentence in the whole thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fiction

Gothic fiction was a HUGE part of why they called themselves "Goth" way back when.  Horror, Romance, Blood, Sensuality.  The fact that you hand-waved it with "or something like that" really makes me think that, even though you've been into it for a decade, you really have very little idea of what's going on.

The Johnny


TGRR asked me what i think its supposed to be, not what it is or was.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: JohNyx on October 22, 2009, 11:08:53 PM

TGRR asked me what i think its supposed to be, not what it is or was.


Point.  I could have worded that better.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Eater of Clowns

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 22, 2009, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: JohNyx on October 22, 2009, 11:08:53 PM

TGRR asked me what i think its supposed to be, not what it is or was.


Point.  I could have worded that better.

E-prime?   :)
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Brotep

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 23, 2009, 05:42:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 23, 2009, 12:31:21 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 22, 2009, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: JohNyx on October 22, 2009, 11:08:53 PM

TGRR asked me what i think its supposed to be, not what it is or was.


Point.  I could have worded that better.

E-prime?   :)

I will kill you and eat you.

Be warned, whoever eats the eater of clowns becomes the new eater of clowns.  It has always been this way.

Cramulus

does that mean eater of clowns is a clown??

Brotep


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Brotep on October 23, 2009, 10:05:10 PM
By the Law of You Are What You Eat.

Apparently, I am a goddamn piece of broccoli.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Kai

I sorta skimmed some of this. Seemed like a list with no purpose to me.
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

Her Royal Majesty's Chief of Insect Genitalia Dissection
Grand Visser of the Six Legged Class
Chanticleer of the Holometabola Clade Church, Diptera Parish

Eater of Clowns

Quote from: Brotep on October 23, 2009, 10:02:39 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 23, 2009, 05:42:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 23, 2009, 12:31:21 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 22, 2009, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: JohNyx on October 22, 2009, 11:08:53 PM

TGRR asked me what i think its supposed to be, not what it is or was.


Point.  I could have worded that better.

E-prime?   :)

I will kill you and eat you.

Be warned, whoever eats the eater of clowns becomes the new eater of clowns.  It has always been this way.

I gained my title viciously, with treachery, and a delicious cabernet.
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.