Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 05:36:35 PM

Title: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 05:36:35 PM
WHAT THE GODDAMN FUCK.
QuoteWASHINGTON -- In a stunning break with First Amendment policy on Capitol Hill, House Republicans directed Capitol Hill police to detain a highly regarded documentary crew that was attempting to film a Wednesday hearing on a controversial natural gas procurement practice. Republicans also denied the entrance of a credentialed ABC News news team that was attempting to film the event.

Josh Fox, director of the Academy Award-nominated documentary "Gasland (http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/)" was taken into custody by Capitol Hill police this morning, along with his crew, after Republicans objected to their presence, according to Democratic sources present at the hearing. The meeting of the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment had been taking place in room 2318 of the Rayburn building. Rep. Brad Miller (D-N.C.), the ranking Democrat on the committee, is currently seeking to secure a procedural maneuver that would allow the detained film crew to re-enter the hearing, which is open to the public. Miller's motion is not expected to succeed.

Approximately 16 officers entered the hearing room and handcuffed Fox amid audible discussions of "disorderly conduct" charges, according to Democratic sources present at the arrest.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/484929/thumbs/s-JOSH-FOX-ARREST-large.jpg)

"Gasland" received strong critical acclaim and takes a critical eye toward the practice of hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," a process in which several tons of highly pressurized water and chemicals are injected into the ground, allowing valuable natural gas to escape. The practice is decried by ecological experts for destroying ecosystems and polluting groundwater. The energy industry keeps the actual content of fracking chemicals secret.

Fox had hoped to film Wednesday's hearing for a follow-up to "Gasland." A colleague of Fox's at his production company was unable to comment on the morning's events, but HuffPost expects a statement soon and will update this story accordingly.

Fox did not have formal Capitol Hill credentials, but such formalities are rarely enforced against high-profile journalists. Temporary passes are easy to obtain, and if Republicans had objected on procedural grounds, they could have simply sent the the crew to the front desk, rather than ordering police to arrest journalists. The right to a free press is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Documentary crews are almost never denied access to public meetings of elected government officials.

A separate ABC News crew, which did have official Capitol Hill credentials, was also denied access to the public hearing.

UPDATE: 12:09 p.m. -- Capitol Police public information officer Seargant Kimberly Schneider provided the following statement to HuffPost on the morning's events:

"At approximately 10:30 a.m. today, United States Capitol Police arrested Joshua Fox of Mainville, Pa. in room 2318 of the Rayburn House office building. He is charged with unlawful entry, and he is currently being processed at United States Capitol Police headquarters."
Seriously? I really shouldn't be surprised. Really shouldn't. But I kind of am. The hearing was open to the public; even though they didn't have credentials, they are still part of the public. Am I missing something? Does a degree from a journalism school automatically mean you're treated differently in instances like this?
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 05:36:35 PM
WHAT THE GODDAMN FUCK.
QuoteWASHINGTON -- In a stunning break with First Amendment policy on Capitol Hill, House Republicans directed Capitol Hill police to detain a highly regarded documentary crew that was attempting to film a Wednesday hearing on a controversial natural gas procurement practice. Republicans also denied the entrance of a credentialed ABC News news team that was attempting to film the event.

Josh Fox, director of the Academy Award-nominated documentary "Gasland (http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/)" was taken into custody by Capitol Hill police this morning, along with his crew, after Republicans objected to their presence, according to Democratic sources present at the hearing. The meeting of the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment had been taking place in room 2318 of the Rayburn building. Rep. Brad Miller (D-N.C.), the ranking Democrat on the committee, is currently seeking to secure a procedural maneuver that would allow the detained film crew to re-enter the hearing, which is open to the public. Miller's motion is not expected to succeed.

Approximately 16 officers entered the hearing room and handcuffed Fox amid audible discussions of "disorderly conduct" charges, according to Democratic sources present at the arrest.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/484929/thumbs/s-JOSH-FOX-ARREST-large.jpg)

"Gasland" received strong critical acclaim and takes a critical eye toward the practice of hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," a process in which several tons of highly pressurized water and chemicals are injected into the ground, allowing valuable natural gas to escape. The practice is decried by ecological experts for destroying ecosystems and polluting groundwater. The energy industry keeps the actual content of fracking chemicals secret.

Fox had hoped to film Wednesday's hearing for a follow-up to "Gasland." A colleague of Fox's at his production company was unable to comment on the morning's events, but HuffPost expects a statement soon and will update this story accordingly.

Fox did not have formal Capitol Hill credentials, but such formalities are rarely enforced against high-profile journalists. Temporary passes are easy to obtain, and if Republicans had objected on procedural grounds, they could have simply sent the the crew to the front desk, rather than ordering police to arrest journalists. The right to a free press is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Documentary crews are almost never denied access to public meetings of elected government officials.

A separate ABC News crew, which did have official Capitol Hill credentials, was also denied access to the public hearing.

UPDATE: 12:09 p.m. -- Capitol Police public information officer Seargant Kimberly Schneider provided the following statement to HuffPost on the morning's events:

"At approximately 10:30 a.m. today, United States Capitol Police arrested Joshua Fox of Mainville, Pa. in room 2318 of the Rayburn House office building. He is charged with unlawful entry, and he is currently being processed at United States Capitol Police headquarters."
Seriously? I really shouldn't be surprised. Really shouldn't. But I kind of am. The hearing was open to the public; even though they didn't have credentials, they are still part of the public. Am I missing something? Does a degree from a journalism school automatically mean you're treated differently in instances like this?

You'd think they'd count as public, I assume maybe to be recording they need a press pass? Not that it really makes a difference at this point, I suppose.

Also, link to article?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

I just don't get it. It's stuff like this I want to jump up and down and rub it in people's faces and shove it down their throats (because trying to talk about it rationally don't work). But then it's "but TV said they broke the law" or the smile, blank stare and onto the next subject. I feel like I'm the one taking crazy pills. It makes me sad and scared and hate everyone.

It is too late and there's no where to go.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Luna on February 01, 2012, 06:25:51 PM
What in the flaming monkey balls is this shit?

Fuck it.  I am buying a lottery ticket.  If there is any just, caring Deity in this world (and there isn't), I will win, buy a self-supporting island somewhere tropical, and declare myself Marquise.  Applications for residency will be accepted, with the understanding that, if you piss me off, you are fucking swimming to the mainland, and I will PAY to import sharks if none are provided.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 06:32:20 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 05:36:35 PM
WHAT THE GODDAMN FUCK.
QuoteWASHINGTON -- In a stunning break with First Amendment policy on Capitol Hill, House Republicans directed Capitol Hill police to detain a highly regarded documentary crew that was attempting to film a Wednesday hearing on a controversial natural gas procurement practice. Republicans also denied the entrance of a credentialed ABC News news team that was attempting to film the event.

Josh Fox, director of the Academy Award-nominated documentary "Gasland (http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/)" was taken into custody by Capitol Hill police this morning, along with his crew, after Republicans objected to their presence, according to Democratic sources present at the hearing. The meeting of the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment had been taking place in room 2318 of the Rayburn building. Rep. Brad Miller (D-N.C.), the ranking Democrat on the committee, is currently seeking to secure a procedural maneuver that would allow the detained film crew to re-enter the hearing, which is open to the public. Miller's motion is not expected to succeed.

Approximately 16 officers entered the hearing room and handcuffed Fox amid audible discussions of "disorderly conduct" charges, according to Democratic sources present at the arrest.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/484929/thumbs/s-JOSH-FOX-ARREST-large.jpg)

"Gasland" received strong critical acclaim and takes a critical eye toward the practice of hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," a process in which several tons of highly pressurized water and chemicals are injected into the ground, allowing valuable natural gas to escape. The practice is decried by ecological experts for destroying ecosystems and polluting groundwater. The energy industry keeps the actual content of fracking chemicals secret.

Fox had hoped to film Wednesday's hearing for a follow-up to "Gasland." A colleague of Fox's at his production company was unable to comment on the morning's events, but HuffPost expects a statement soon and will update this story accordingly.

Fox did not have formal Capitol Hill credentials, but such formalities are rarely enforced against high-profile journalists. Temporary passes are easy to obtain, and if Republicans had objected on procedural grounds, they could have simply sent the the crew to the front desk, rather than ordering police to arrest journalists. The right to a free press is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Documentary crews are almost never denied access to public meetings of elected government officials.

A separate ABC News crew, which did have official Capitol Hill credentials, was also denied access to the public hearing.

UPDATE: 12:09 p.m. -- Capitol Police public information officer Seargant Kimberly Schneider provided the following statement to HuffPost on the morning's events:

"At approximately 10:30 a.m. today, United States Capitol Police arrested Joshua Fox of Mainville, Pa. in room 2318 of the Rayburn House office building. He is charged with unlawful entry, and he is currently being processed at United States Capitol Police headquarters."
Seriously? I really shouldn't be surprised. Really shouldn't. But I kind of am. The hearing was open to the public; even though they didn't have credentials, they are still part of the public. Am I missing something? Does a degree from a journalism school automatically mean you're treated differently in instances like this?

You'd think they'd count as public, I assume maybe to be recording they need a press pass? Not that it really makes a difference at this point, I suppose.

Also, link to article?
Oops, thought I included that: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/01/house-republicans-order-j_n_1246971.html
And hmm, I don't know if they had intended to record. Probably.

Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

I just don't get it. It's stuff like this I want to jump up and down and rub it in people's faces and shove it down their throats (because trying to talk about it rationally don't work). But then it's "but TV said they broke the law" or the smile, blank stare and onto the next subject. I feel like I'm the one taking crazy pills. It makes me sad and scared and hate everyone.

It is too late and there's no where to go.
Running away means it can still follow you. Just a thought.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 06:32:20 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 05:36:35 PM
WHAT THE GODDAMN FUCK.
QuoteWASHINGTON -- In a stunning break with First Amendment policy on Capitol Hill, House Republicans directed Capitol Hill police to detain a highly regarded documentary crew that was attempting to film a Wednesday hearing on a controversial natural gas procurement practice. Republicans also denied the entrance of a credentialed ABC News news team that was attempting to film the event.

Josh Fox, director of the Academy Award-nominated documentary "Gasland (http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/)" was taken into custody by Capitol Hill police this morning, along with his crew, after Republicans objected to their presence, according to Democratic sources present at the hearing. The meeting of the House Subcommittee on Energy and Environment had been taking place in room 2318 of the Rayburn building. Rep. Brad Miller (D-N.C.), the ranking Democrat on the committee, is currently seeking to secure a procedural maneuver that would allow the detained film crew to re-enter the hearing, which is open to the public. Miller's motion is not expected to succeed.

Approximately 16 officers entered the hearing room and handcuffed Fox amid audible discussions of "disorderly conduct" charges, according to Democratic sources present at the arrest.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/484929/thumbs/s-JOSH-FOX-ARREST-large.jpg)

"Gasland" received strong critical acclaim and takes a critical eye toward the practice of hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," a process in which several tons of highly pressurized water and chemicals are injected into the ground, allowing valuable natural gas to escape. The practice is decried by ecological experts for destroying ecosystems and polluting groundwater. The energy industry keeps the actual content of fracking chemicals secret.

Fox had hoped to film Wednesday's hearing for a follow-up to "Gasland." A colleague of Fox's at his production company was unable to comment on the morning's events, but HuffPost expects a statement soon and will update this story accordingly.

Fox did not have formal Capitol Hill credentials, but such formalities are rarely enforced against high-profile journalists. Temporary passes are easy to obtain, and if Republicans had objected on procedural grounds, they could have simply sent the the crew to the front desk, rather than ordering police to arrest journalists. The right to a free press is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Documentary crews are almost never denied access to public meetings of elected government officials.

A separate ABC News crew, which did have official Capitol Hill credentials, was also denied access to the public hearing.

UPDATE: 12:09 p.m. -- Capitol Police public information officer Seargant Kimberly Schneider provided the following statement to HuffPost on the morning's events:

"At approximately 10:30 a.m. today, United States Capitol Police arrested Joshua Fox of Mainville, Pa. in room 2318 of the Rayburn House office building. He is charged with unlawful entry, and he is currently being processed at United States Capitol Police headquarters."
Seriously? I really shouldn't be surprised. Really shouldn't. But I kind of am. The hearing was open to the public; even though they didn't have credentials, they are still part of the public. Am I missing something? Does a degree from a journalism school automatically mean you're treated differently in instances like this?

You'd think they'd count as public, I assume maybe to be recording they need a press pass? Not that it really makes a difference at this point, I suppose.

Also, link to article?
Oops, thought I included that: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/01/house-republicans-order-j_n_1246971.html
And hmm, I don't know if they had intended to record. Probably.

Thank you. And I had assumed they were planning to record based on the "Fox had hoped to film Wednesday's hearing for a follow-up to "Gasland" part, unless I misread. But as is becoming more and more evident each day, one's "true" intentions don't really mean anything when the government/police/courts have already decided what your intentions are for you.

Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

I just don't get it. It's stuff like this I want to jump up and down and rub it in people's faces and shove it down their throats (because trying to talk about it rationally don't work). But then it's "but TV said they broke the law" or the smile, blank stare and onto the next subject. I feel like I'm the one taking crazy pills. It makes me sad and scared and hate everyone.

It is too late and there's no where to go.
Running away means it can still follow you. Just a thought.
[/quote]

I know, and that's why lately I just have the feeling of a rat trapped in a cage with a pack of hungry cats outside and no-one else is paying attention because the cats aren't bothering them (yet) and the claws are reaching in, but HEY!! there's a hunk of cheese sitting in the middle of the cage so we'll just fight over that instead. What cats?

There's no saving anyone because they don't want to be saved. And the one-man revolution's not going to get anyone anywhere except dead or tucked away somewhere safe. And there's no running, for any multitude of reasons. I do care about some of the other rats in here, even if they don't see what's coming. Meh, I'm just a ball of hopelessness and cynicism lately.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:02:39 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 06:55:57 PM
There's no saving anyone because they don't want to be saved. And the one-man revolution's not going to get anyone anywhere except dead or tucked away somewhere safe. And there's no running, for any multitude of reasons. I do care about some of the other rats in here, even if they don't see what's coming. Meh, I'm just a ball of hopelessness and cynicism lately.

You're looking at it all wrong, is all.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: LMNO on February 01, 2012, 07:26:46 PM
Don't get me wrong -- this is some fucked shit.

But if getting credentials is so easy, why the hell didn't they get that straigtened out ahead of time?

Unless, of course, it was a stunt to draw attention to the sequel.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 01, 2012, 07:26:46 PM
Don't get me wrong -- this is some fucked shit.

But if getting credentials is so easy, why the hell didn't they get that straigtened out ahead of time?

Unless, of course, it was a stunt to draw attention to the sequel.

Looking at amendment I, I see no listed requirement for "credentials".  The lowliest blogger is constitutionally as legitimate as the editor in chief of the Washington Post.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 07:32:18 PM
Oh, they ought to have gotten credentials and you should never give your opponents a way to fuck you like this, but like the article said, it's something rarely enforced. I don't think they necessarily expected it to be a problem if it hasn't been before. And  I gotta say, the charges are pretty specious.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 01, 2012, 07:26:46 PM
Don't get me wrong -- this is some fucked shit.

But if getting credentials is so easy, why the hell didn't they get that straigtened out ahead of time?

Unless, of course, it was a stunt to draw attention to the sequel.

Looking at amendment I, I see no listed requirement for "credentials".  The lowliest blogger is constitutionally as legitimate as the editor in chief of the Washington Post.
This.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on February 01, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

It's too late?

Thank goodness, that excuses me from feeling like I should do something about it.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

It's too late?

Thank goodness, that excuses me from feeling like I should do something about it.

Yep.  It's been too late for at least 5 years.  The system is now immune to any known form of disturbance.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 07:44:08 PM
Update:
QuoteUPDATE: 2:27 p.m. -- Fox apparently had applied for credentialing the day before the hearing but had been unable to obtain official permission to film. He had asked a credentialed film crew to tape the proceedings on his behalf but was informed that this was not permitted.

Nevertheless, turning away journalists is extremely rare on Capitol Hill. The rules requiring pre-approval for film crews are designed to prevent hearings from being disrupted by hordes of camera operators. That was the case for this hearing. Only two cameras requested entrance to the event, which was not crowded.

Subcommittee Chairman Andy Harris (R-Md.) was unavailable for comment, but several Democrats on the committee voiced outrage with the GOP's press blackout.

"I was chair of the Subcommittee for four years, and we frequently had people show up the day of a hearing to film," Rep. Brad Miller (D-N.C.) told HuffPost. "We asked for their name, but they were told if they would not disrupt the hearing, they were free to record. A couple of times staff said, 'You're getting in the way, don't stand there,' but other than that, I do not ever recall anything like this. We certainly never turned anyone away for not providing 24 hours' notice."

"It's an outrageous violation of the First Amendment," Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) told HuffPost. "Here we've got an Academy Award-nominated filmmaker, and it's an important subject and the subject that he did his prior film on for HBO. And they put him in handcuffs and hauled him out of there. This is stunning."

"I found it ironic that there was not a flood of cameras there," noted Rep. Paul Tonko (D-N.Y.). "There was the one camera and then before that, the ABC camera ... if you have a camera there to bring the issue home to the public, that's a good thing."

The hearing was already being filmed by C-SPAN. ABC and Josh Fox had only sought to obtain higher-quality video by bringing their own cameras to the event. Democrats attempted to suspend the rules governing camerawork to allow Josh Fox and ABC to film the hearing, but Republicans, who hold a majority on all House committees and subcommittees, voted down the motion. Democrats then sought to postpone the hearing to allow for filming at a later date, a motion which Republicans also overruled.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: LMNO on February 01, 2012, 07:47:37 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 07:44:08 PM
Update:
QuoteUPDATE: 2:27 p.m. -- Fox apparently had applied for credentialing the day before the hearing but had been unable to obtain official permission to film. He had asked a credentialed film crew to tape the proceedings on his behalf but was informed that this was not permitted.

Nevertheless, turning away journalists is extremely rare on Capitol Hill. The rules requiring pre-approval for film crews are designed to prevent hearings from being disrupted by hordes of camera operators. That was the case for this hearing. Only two cameras requested entrance to the event, which was not crowded.

Subcommittee Chairman Andy Harris (R-Md.) was unavailable for comment, but several Democrats on the committee voiced outrage with the GOP's press blackout.

"I was chair of the Subcommittee for four years, and we frequently had people show up the day of a hearing to film," Rep. Brad Miller (D-N.C.) told HuffPost. "We asked for their name, but they were told if they would not disrupt the hearing, they were free to record. A couple of times staff said, 'You're getting in the way, don't stand there,' but other than that, I do not ever recall anything like this. We certainly never turned anyone away for not providing 24 hours' notice."

"It's an outrageous violation of the First Amendment," Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) told HuffPost. "Here we've got an Academy Award-nominated filmmaker, and it's an important subject and the subject that he did his prior film on for HBO. And they put him in handcuffs and hauled him out of there. This is stunning."

"I found it ironic that there was not a flood of cameras there," noted Rep. Paul Tonko (D-N.Y.). "There was the one camera and then before that, the ABC camera ... if you have a camera there to bring the issue home to the public, that's a good thing."

The hearing was already being filmed by C-SPAN. ABC and Josh Fox had only sought to obtain higher-quality video by bringing their own cameras to the event. Democrats attempted to suspend the rules governing camerawork to allow Josh Fox and ABC to film the hearing, but Republicans, who hold a majority on all House committees and subcommittees, voted down the motion. Democrats then sought to postpone the hearing to allow for filming at a later date, a motion which Republicans also overruled.

In light of the above, I withdraw my question.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:49:44 PM
I might add, the press is now reaping what they've sown for YEARS.

Not Joshua Fox, mind you...He didn't deserve this.  But the press in general has just been told where they stand kneel, and it's THEIR OWN FAULT.  They did this by allowing "torture" to be reframed as "enhanced interrogation".  They did this by allowing George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld to be all the proof they required for banging the war drums.  They did this by allowing the OWS movement to be conveniently shoved out of the public eye, while giving some fucking goofball from Wasilla every ounce of press she wanted AFTER she patiently and clearly explained how much she hated the press.

But you won't hear the press whining about it, even now.  They're too busy jamming their tongues up the appropriate rectums.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on February 01, 2012, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

It's too late?

Thank goodness, that excuses me from feeling like I should do something about it.

Yep.  It's been too late for at least 5 years.  The system is now immune to any known form of disturbance.

And here I was getting all stressed out about forming novel disturbances.

What a relief. I don't think I'll ever wipe my ass again.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:56:10 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

It's too late?

Thank goodness, that excuses me from feeling like I should do something about it.

Yep.  It's been too late for at least 5 years.  The system is now immune to any known form of disturbance.

And here I was getting all stressed out about forming novel disturbances.

What a relief. I don't think I'll ever wipe my ass again.

Well, you just run right along and save the world.  Let me know how it works out.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

It's too late?

Thank goodness, that excuses me from feeling like I should do something about it.

Yep.  It's been too late for at least 5 years.  The system is now immune to any known form of disturbance.

And I think that's where the hopelessness and confusion comes in. As much as I want to shriek at everyone around me to "wake up", I also realize that it's just impotent rage. The machine's just going to keep plugging along, crushing anything that gets in its way. But there is no machine to tear down. The government, the media, the public, it's all the machine. An ever-growing, ever-feeding amorphous blob (kinda like you see at Wal-Mart). But I know ignoring a problem isn't going to solve it either. Can't unsee and all that, and even if I could put the blinders on, it's not going to STOP anything. So here I am, shrieking into the void, paddling with one arm to stay above water, and the other to grab at anyone nearby that might "get it" (even if I don't quite get "it")
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on February 01, 2012, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:56:10 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 07:40:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

It's too late?

Thank goodness, that excuses me from feeling like I should do something about it.

Yep.  It's been too late for at least 5 years.  The system is now immune to any known form of disturbance.

And here I was getting all stressed out about forming novel disturbances.

What a relief. I don't think I'll ever wipe my ass again.

Well, you just run right along and save the world.  Let me know how it works out.

Don't worry, I'm not even going to try to change my local government since it's protected by the white blood cells of gods.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Placid Dingo on February 01, 2012, 09:07:17 PM
Net's not being unreasonable here.

If there was no chance of ever being part of any positive change ever again in America, I don't know why anyone would stay there. The 'were all doomed' tone can get a bit grating, even if it comes from a sincere place.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on February 01, 2012, 09:16:51 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on February 01, 2012, 09:07:17 PM
Net's not being unreasonable here.

If there was no chance of ever being part of any positive change ever again in America, I don't know why anyone would stay there. The 'were all doomed' tone can get a bit grating, even if it comes from a sincere place.

Because "not staying there" isn't as easy as one would like to think. People do have family, friends, misc. ties to community, financial constraints, economic constraints and who says any other country's gonna want us either? Then somehow finally weasel your way into some other country just to start the same shit over, different location? Not seeing many other great options anyway.

Not saying this to be all Negative Nancy, but picking up and leaving isn't quite as easy as it sounds.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2012, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 05:39:20 PM
I told you people this shit was coming.  I said it YEARS ago.

"Hee hee!  Roger so crazeee!", everyone said, and went back to talking about cookies and pie and stabbity stabbity face-raping bats tequila.

Well, now it's fucking HAPPENING, and it's TOO LATE.

I must now go laugh myself into hysterics.  BRB.

:lulz: Yeah, I was told "That will never happen in the United States!"

HAW HAW HAW!
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Placid Dingo on February 01, 2012, 09:31:18 PM
Missing the point. Ignore the part about me not knowing why you'd stay there.

An approach that assumes some kind of positive change is possible is not a bad approach by  default.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Cramulus on February 01, 2012, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on February 01, 2012, 09:07:17 PM
Net's not being unreasonable here.

If there was no chance of ever being part of any positive change ever again in America, I don't know why anyone would stay there. The 'were all doomed' tone can get a bit grating, even if it comes from a sincere place.

I'm with you.

I can't hold the unwashed masses responsible for the current bullshit state of things while divorcing myself of that same responsibility.

nothing stays the same forever

saying that there's no point trying to improve things is a self fulfilling prophecy


Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:37:28 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on February 01, 2012, 09:33:20 PM

I can't hold the unwashed masses responsible for the current bullshit state of things while divorcing myself of that same responsibility.

You can if you're a bitter misanthrope.   :lulz:
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 08:23:44 PM
Don't worry, I'm not even going to try to change my local government since it's protected by the white blood cells of gods.

Who said anything about government?  Government - at any level - isn't the problem.  Your local "government" is just as helpless as any of its citizens.  I'd say the same goes for the federal government, except that it's full of insane people.  Insane people that were put there by "The People", who cannot make the connection between putting them there and insane results.

The problem is the ENTIRE system.  Corporations, "government", the people, everything.  It's grown too complex to manage, which just makes the people attempting to manage it (for a given value of "manage") more insane.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 09:52:17 PM
I don't think that, if everything comes tumbling down, it's going to be magically better next time around, even in a few generations when life is somewhat less messy. Most of the problems that exist now will exist then because game changers in society don't happen very much. The only difference is it won't be our problem because we'll already be dead.

Quote from: Cramulus on February 01, 2012, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on February 01, 2012, 09:07:17 PM
Net's not being unreasonable here.

If there was no chance of ever being part of any positive change ever again in America, I don't know why anyone would stay there. The 'were all doomed' tone can get a bit grating, even if it comes from a sincere place.

I'm with you.

I can't hold the unwashed masses responsible for the current bullshit state of things while divorcing myself of that same responsibility.

nothing stays the same forever

saying that there's no point trying to improve things is a self fulfilling prophecy
^^^This. I don't feel like I can let things lie as they are or let them get worse without trying to do something, and if a million people do a little something, it begins to build up. There was decades of build-up before the women's and civil rights movements - legal fights and on the ground. I like to think that the continued existence of the OWS folks, for example, is the groundwork for something like that.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 09:53:32 PM
I realize that in a lot of ways, it would be shoring up the shitty system Roger's critiquing, but I have another sixty or seventy years on this planet and it would be nice to have a society to live in.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 09:52:17 PM
^^^This. I don't feel like I can let things lie as they are or let them get worse without trying to do something, and if a million people do a little something, it begins to build up. There was decades of build-up before the women's and civil rights movements - legal fights and on the ground. I like to think that the continued existence of the OWS folks, for example, is the groundwork for something like that.

Okay.  I'll buy that.

Give me a root cause of failure, and let's see what, if anything, we can do about it.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:55:21 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 09:53:32 PM
I realize that in a lot of ways, it would be shoring up the shitty system Roger's critiquing, but I have another sixty or seventy years on this planet and it would be nice to have a society to live in.

This has all happened before, most notably in Rome, circa 70BCE-27BCE.

Civilization isn't ending.  The republic is.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Poor phrasing on my part. I have to live in whatever the government structure is for a damn long time and I'd prefer to try to salvage the republic. I'm down with jeering, but sitting on my ass as I do instead trying to fix it is watching the republic sink and imo, doesn't make me much better than the assholes who are drilling holes in the hull. Again, I certainly don't think one person with a finger in the dike can fix anything, but enough fingers might do the trick.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 09:52:17 PM
^^^This. I don't feel like I can let things lie as they are or let them get worse without trying to do something, and if a million people do a little something, it begins to build up. There was decades of build-up before the women's and civil rights movements - legal fights and on the ground. I like to think that the continued existence of the OWS folks, for example, is the groundwork for something like that.

Okay.  I'll buy that.

Give me a root cause of failure, and let's see what, if anything, we can do about it.
Corporatism. We've tugged corporations semi-out of government before and I think we can do it again.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Poor phrasing on my part. I have to live in whatever the government structure is for a damn long time and I'd prefer to try to salvage the republic. I'm down with jeering, but sitting on my ass as I do instead trying to fix it is watching the republic sink and imo, doesn't make me much better than the assholes who are drilling holes in the hull. Again, I certainly don't think one person with a finger in the dike can fix anything, but enough fingers might do the trick.

Give me a workable idea, and I'm with you.  God knows my ideas flopped. 

Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 01, 2012, 10:19:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 08:23:44 PM
Don't worry, I'm not even going to try to change my local government since it's protected by the white blood cells of gods.

Who said anything about government?  Government - at any level - isn't the problem.  Your local "government" is just as helpless as any of its citizens.  I'd say the same goes for the federal government, except that it's full of insane people.  Insane people that were put there by "The People", who cannot make the connection between putting them there and insane results.

The problem is the ENTIRE system.  Corporations, "government", the people, everything.  It's grown too complex to manage, which just makes the people attempting to manage it (for a given value of "manage") more insane.

Right now, local government is the only level at which most of us stand any chance at making a change. Our best hope is to elect local-level politicians who support campaign finance reform.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 10:26:14 PM
Quote from: Nigel on February 01, 2012, 10:19:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: Net on February 01, 2012, 08:23:44 PM
Don't worry, I'm not even going to try to change my local government since it's protected by the white blood cells of gods.

Who said anything about government?  Government - at any level - isn't the problem.  Your local "government" is just as helpless as any of its citizens.  I'd say the same goes for the federal government, except that it's full of insane people.  Insane people that were put there by "The People", who cannot make the connection between putting them there and insane results.

The problem is the ENTIRE system.  Corporations, "government", the people, everything.  It's grown too complex to manage, which just makes the people attempting to manage it (for a given value of "manage") more insane.

Right now, local government is the only level at which most of us stand any chance at making a change. Our best hope is to elect local-level politicians who support campaign finance reform.

Problem is, in my experience local government is powerless to affect the changes that need to occur.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Juana on February 01, 2012, 11:17:15 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Poor phrasing on my part. I have to live in whatever the government structure is for a damn long time and I'd prefer to try to salvage the republic. I'm down with jeering, but sitting on my ass as I do instead trying to fix it is watching the republic sink and imo, doesn't make me much better than the assholes who are drilling holes in the hull. Again, I certainly don't think one person with a finger in the dike can fix anything, but enough fingers might do the trick.

Give me a workable idea, and I'm with you.  God knows my ideas flopped. 


On a your-finger-in-a-dike level, I don't think there's very much that will give immediate or impressive results. It would probably be a lot of plugging along and probably a lot of it won't matter (but at least you did something). Teaching, getting involved with and/or making donations to groups that do things to try to bail out the sinking boat or at least do social work (Planned Parenthood, for example), and so on.

On a many-fingers-in-a-dike level: it's expensive and takes decades, but legal action is the tried and true way to start building something solid. It rarely grants a mile, especially not immediately, but it gives an inch at a time and with time enough inches become a mile. Of course, it needs to be accompanied by larger, wider action, which is really the problem I think because we need a new model. OWS has galvanized a lot of people and is a pretty solid showing of the kind of support something like this would have, but a lot of the old methods have lost their value. Everybody and their brother has done marches and the cops have generally gotten smarter about dealing with them (Oakland PD and such aside). Petitions I don't think wield the same weight anymore either, partly because the internet has made it really, really easy to sign them and a list of numbers on a screen is not as impressive as page after page of signatures. We'd need something new and I don't know what that would be.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Johnny on February 02, 2012, 05:15:01 AM

A lot of people seem to think that any change will come in the manner of a "revolution" within a matter of months when people for some magical reason "take to the streets". A lot of people seem to refuse to do the little things in daily life that could inch towards that, like personal integrity, well defined and thought morals, empathy.

Everybody wants to be a hero in a revolution; but helping others without getting huge social positive-reinforcing and a thousand pats on his back? or actually learning about the possible systemic causes of the situation? Im sure most would say "fuck that".

The individual power we each have might be little on the great scheme, but locally we can influence how things go to our perceived notion of "doing right"...

So good luck showing the screeching monkeys that your notion of "doing right" is more than your subjective perception and that it has some semblance of reality/logic behind it.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on February 02, 2012, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on February 02, 2012, 05:15:01 AM
or actually learning about the possible systemic causes of the situation?

This bit.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on February 02, 2012, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on February 02, 2012, 05:15:01 AM
Everybody wants to be a hero in a revolution; but helping others without getting huge social positive-reinforcing and a thousand pats on his back? or actually learning about the possible systemic causes of the situation? Im sure most would say "fuck that".

I've taken in it upon myself to convince people I barely know to bite into some research of their own. People have been surprisingly receptive.

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on February 02, 2012, 05:15:01 AM
So good luck showing the screeching monkeys that your notion of "doing right" is more than your subjective perception and that it has some semblance of reality/logic behind it.

I've noticed people use all sorts of things to try and keep hideous truths from seeping in: sports, religion, video games, hedonism, magickque, and I see I can add postmodernism. Whatever gets you through the night.


Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on February 01, 2012, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 01, 2012, 09:53:46 PM
Give me a root cause of failure, and let's see what, if anything, we can do about it.
Corporatism. We've tugged corporations semi-out of government before and I think we can do it again.

8):hi5::|
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Johnny on February 02, 2012, 09:41:32 PM

This might be thought of derailing the thread or whatever, if so, split it (even do the discourse seems to have wandered in many directions).


What do you guys do to promote the creation/existance of your ideal society? I implicitly assume that there are very differing viewpoints, and for precision/size sake, maybe speak of the most relevant issues.

What i personally consider the biggest problem in the world is the incongruencies between "what-we-want-the-world-to-be" and "what-the-world-is"; in other words, how ideology is a result of our most primitive and unchecked desires.

What i DO to solve this "problem" involves myself and others. First regarding myself, i try to take my education in the humanities seriously (reading and writing constantly) and doing self reflection exersices thru different manners.

Regarding my peers/friends i try to delve into why a value/opinion is held so dearly, and i confront them when i think something is "wrong".

My school's own field work revolves around interviewing people, and within the process of the interviews, the questions that are asked help the interviewee to get more awareness of their own ideas and thought processes, while the answers they give can give the interviewer an innovative perspective on how to see a situation/issue.

Politically/job-wise, in whichever job i end up, ill probably be still working with interviews which goes along with what i exposed about a process that facilitates self-reflection and comparison.

So basicly my idea of promoting "positive change" in my subjective opinion is based on a small and local scale assist in the process of self-reflection which i think is the key to a less rigid and fantasious manner of perceiving "how-things-should-be". I mean, the things i see others do are "plantones" which is basically sit around camping with some big cardboard saying how "undignified" at some social issue you are without actually doing anything and just get ignored by authorities, or go to parades advocating gay or womens or anti-violence slogans, but i dont find that they have any real impact.

HOw about you guys?
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 10:04:51 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on February 02, 2012, 09:41:32 PMWhat do you guys do to promote the creation/existance of your ideal society?

That's a great question.
That's a huge question.

speaking in really broad, vague terms----------

I work from the memetic model. When I think about the boiling network of ideas, I see myself as a communication node, and meanwhile I am also a member of numerous communication nodes. Signals pass through these nodes, and they're transformed as they travel.

I believe that you have to put the ideal world (the imaginary world you want to live in) in your heart. The best thing you can do is to intensify signals which seem to point towards that world, and discourage signals which pull things away from that world. Feedback is the main thing that transforms a signal. So when somebody says something shitty, sometimes you have to push back at it, challenge it, make the bad signal more difficult to spread. Sometimes you have to ignore the bad signal, rather than feeding it with your attention. It is tricky to determine which is which.

Sometimes a really good idea comes along. You can sense that there's something incredible there. Maybe the idea isn't fully formed yet, but you can tell that it's moving in the right direction. (like the Occupy protests) When you recognize something like that, you have to protect it and care for it. People will get distracted by some detail and miss the real spirit of it (for example "occupy protesters are just lazy hippies with ipads").

The best thing you can do for the world is to find a signal with real power, a shaft of light from the world you want to live in, and allow yourself to be consumed by it. You have to let it work the control panel of your brain, let it use your body and your will to further itself. You will be improved in the process.

This is why we're on a board talking about Discordia -- we sensed something about that idea, we let it enter us, and it transformed us in some way. We have a symbiotic relationship with it - it helps us and we help it. We are willing to use our brains to further the idea and spread it. This forum here is one of Discordia's limbs, you and I like are digits on that limb. The Discordia animal crawls through the infosphere, nudging things, turning things over, leaving its scent everywhere.



Quote from: Sprockets and Widgets, by ECHYou cannot effect a large scale change, and if you make a serious attempt you WILL be neutralized. Instead, each and every one of you should make a conscious effort to effect a small reprogramming of the MACHINE(tm) in a manner that affects you and your immediate surroundings. keep the mutation small, and give it a chance to become effectively contagious. If we all effect a change on our own paradigm, there WILL be an eventual overlap, at which point the large scale change which you have hoped to effect all along will be impossible to stop.
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: The Johnny on February 02, 2012, 11:28:01 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 10:04:51 PM
I work from the memetic model. When I think about the boiling network of ideas, I see myself as a communication node, and meanwhile I am also a member of numerous communication nodes. Signals pass through these nodes, and they're transformed as they travel.

I do think that its important to have a model in which you visualize yourself working from. For example, im working from the "cognitive scheme" of conscious/unconscious and desire/reality dualities. Its basicly the theory behind the acts.

Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 10:04:51 PMI believe that you have to put the ideal world (the imaginary world you want to live in) in your heart.

Castoriadis speaks about the "radical imagination" which is basicly the capability of imagining a different/better world than the actual world as a basic requirement or the first steps needed for an actual change to take place. A lot of people don't put the effort into, or strongly belive that all viable system options have been tried out and have failed (ex. Communist Russia), so they resign themselves politically because that's just "how things are".

Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 10:04:51 PMThe best thing you can do is to intensify signals which seem to point towards that world, and discourage signals which pull things away from that world. Feedback is the main thing that transforms a signal. So when somebody says something shitty, sometimes you have to push back at it, challenge it, make the bad signal more difficult to spread. Sometimes you have to ignore the bad signal, rather than feeding it with your attention. It is tricky to determine which is which.

Its very tricky, because when someone starts screeching, and one screeches back at them, the end result is just reinforcing the idea that there is no common ground to discuss at, and that its "us versus them".

Quote from: Cramulus on February 02, 2012, 10:04:51 PMSometimes a really good idea comes along. You can sense that there's something incredible there. Maybe the idea isn't fully formed yet, but you can tell that it's moving in the right direction. (like the Occupy protests) When you recognize something like that, you have to protect it and care for it. People will get distracted by some detail and miss the real spirit of it (for example "occupy protesters are just lazy hippies with ipads").

The best thing you can do for the world is to find a signal with real power, a shaft of light from the world you want to live in, and allow yourself to be consumed by it. You have to let it work the control panel of your brain, let it use your body and your will to further itself. You will be improved in the process.

This is why we're on a board talking about Discordia -- we sensed something about that idea, we let it enter us, and it transformed us in some way. We have a symbiotic relationship with it - it helps us and we help it. We are willing to use our brains to further the idea and spread it. This forum here is one of Discordia's limbs, you and I like are digits on that limb. The Discordia animal crawls through the infosphere, nudging things, turning things over, leaving its scent everywhere.

I think that one of the core ideas behind Discordia is that ideas/perceptions are mostly social constructions, and one supporting the idea that things don't have an inherent meaning opens up the possibility of thinking things in a whole different manner.  Thinking thru the lens of "constructivism" allows to notice how the meaning behind race, gender, class, etc changes over time and that it doesn't have anything to do with "essence"

Quote from: Sprockets and Widgets, by ECHYou cannot effect a large scale change, and if you make a serious attempt you WILL be neutralized. Instead, each and every one of you should make a conscious effort to effect a small reprogramming of the MACHINE(tm) in a manner that affects you and your immediate surroundings. keep the mutation small, and give it a chance to become effectively contagious. If we all effect a change on our own paradigm, there WILL be an eventual overlap, at which point the large scale change which you have hoped to effect all along will be impossible to stop.

Yes exactly, instead of everybody trying to be "an hero" thru the methods of slacktivism (fed with ridiculous tropes like YOU ARE THE ONE and other junk) one should focus on the hard to notice (and sometimes costly to do) little things that make the path for a "better society".

Maybe im rambling a bit, but its a topic that i find interesting, because i know most people in this board arent content with how things are, so, sort of like comparing strategies.

But Cram, i understood waht you said mostly on a theorical level, but how do you act this out? Is it mostly oriented to people you talk to on an everyday basis? the internet? your job? strangers? on projects? hobbies?
Title: Re: 'Gasland' Journalists Arrested At Hearing By Order Of House Republicans
Post by: Cramulus on February 03, 2012, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on February 02, 2012, 11:28:01 PM
But Cram, i understood waht you said mostly on a theorical level, but how do you act this out? Is it mostly oriented to people you talk to on an everyday basis? the internet? your job? strangers? on projects? hobbies?

It's all of those things in small ways.

There is a common theme in all of my projects and creative works. What gives me the most sublime joy is to create self-sustaining systems that are a creative outlet for others.

That is - What I most want is to create something that I can let go of, something that once I stop controlling it, it will walk on its own. And everybody that touches it has a unique way of relating to it that makes the whole thing richer.

Five quick examples-------

----Intermittens magazine (http://23ae.com/tag/intermittens/), for example, was set up to be a very open-ended creative outlet. I showed people how to do it, and it looked so much fun that other people made their own. Now we've got 12 issues! All it took was one push and the snowball rolled downhill.

----OMGASM - the idea was to start a project/prank movement with no leader. Vex's idea was inspirational: The MachineTM has its own methods of sustaining itself (rewards, routines, social pressure, etc), I wonder if we could come up with an engine which worked the same way, but with better goals/activities/output.

----The Dreaming LARP (http://cramul.us/2010/08/dreaming-larp-magazine/) - this was a live action game set in a dream world. The game activities were things like getting together with your friends and voting on game politics. Essentially, I wanted to tap into existing social circles that already have their own routines and hangout spots... and inject a layer of narrative and game activity. The game also explored the idea of people playing the same game in different parts of the world. When the game was over, I made a magazine about it.

----At a very small magnification, my weekly D&D game is part of this idea. I run a weekly D&D game. My friends come by and play. And it gives us all something to talk about and look forward to. It gives each of my players a stage that they can use to perform for each other. And it's so much fun that one of my newcomer friends wants to start his own game now.

----Here at this community, I hope that my personal creative efforts infect other people. I want other people to initiate projects like Intermittens, WOMP, stupid slang words like "spag", etc etc etc, and contribute things that will make the whole community a richer place for creativity and collaboration.